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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Rellmerr (talk | contribs) at 06:08, 19 February 2018 (→‎Accessibility of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority: comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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What station is this?

Location questions have been moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation/Unidentified locations.

Sea Beach and West End

Could someone please explain to me why the stations of the old Sea Beach Line and West End Line are not mentioned anywhere online? I'm curious because a majority of them are in the exact spots as their modern counterparts, and I'm also curious about the unmentioned disappearance of an Ulmer Park station on the West End Line. Cards84664 (talk) 22:21, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a pre-Dual Contracts station of BMT's predecessor. Evidently Bay Parkway (BMT West End Line) and 25th Avenue (BMT West End Line) were replacements for the former Ulmer Park (BRT West End Line) station. Even if that article isn't created, we should always use decent references as evidence that they were replacements for that station. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 23:27, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

IRT Elevated system

Another thing to mention, the nycsubway website starts with the 1904 subway maps. Is there any known source that has el maps from the late 1890s? (like Guide of the Railways, etc) Cards84664 (talk) 00:14, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Shoreliners at Flooded Croton-Harmon Yard

I have to ask about this collection of generic Shoreliners caught in the flooding of Hurricane Sandy at the Croton-Harmon Yards;

My first thought is the Shoreliner III because of the center doors, but I found out the Shoreliner IV's can have them too. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 18:11, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is it only me?

There are two commons categories with very similar names and totally different meanings:

Should we change the second one to "workshops"? Vcohen (talk) 13:59, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Something should definitely be changed. The latter could be changed to maintenance facilities, or the former can be changed to businesses.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:44, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The repair shop cat is only being used by a few subcategories, whilst the retail cat is used directly by many pictures. So, the simpler change is to move the workshop category. Jim.henderson (talk) 16:02, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the second one is a subcategory of commons:Category:Railway workshops in the United States. Thank you, done. Vcohen (talk) 17:23, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
How about renaming the first to "stores" and the second to "workshops"? Stores is used for some other of its sister/cousin-cats in the first sense and workshops is the parent terminology for the second. DMacks (talk) 20:18, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The first is a subcategory of commons:Category:Shops in New York City and commons:Category:Train station shops. I would let them remain consistent. Vcohen (talk) 20:25, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe rename the first "Retail shops in the New York City Subway" to make clear it's not about repairs? Honestly, the entire parent category should be at "stores" or "retail shops" to avoid confusion. At the very least, the category pages for the NYC Subway categories should include explanitory notes that include links pointing to the other category for clarity. oknazevad (talk) 00:35, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The first category should be "stores". The second one should be "maintenance shops". That way, a maintenance shop is not going to be confused with a retail store. epicgenius (talk) 01:47, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK, now I see that all the Commons categories are named "Shops in XXX", so "Shops in the New York City Subway" fits into that naming pattern, and I just broke that pattern by renaming it. I reverted myself, but I think "Retail shops" rather than "stores" would be better. epicgenius (talk) 01:49, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

JFK Express

I have two questions about the JFK Express. The article says: 

The route began at 57th Street and ran express on the IND Sixth Avenue Line to West Fourth Street–Washington Square, where it switched to the IND Eighth Avenue Line and ran express to Jay Street–Borough Hall in Downtown Brooklyn. From that point on, it ran non-stop on the IND Fulton Street Line and IND Rockaway Line to Howard Beach–JFK Airport.

Question 1. How did it switch from the Sixth Avenue Line to the Eighth Avenue Line? There are switches south of West Fourth Street, but they only connect the local tracks of both lines, while the train ran express.

Question 2. How did it run non-stop on the Fulton Street and Rockaway Lines? Did it just slow down in the tunnel when the train before it stopped at stations?

Thanks in advance. Vcohen (talk) 19:11, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think it ran express via the local track. There ran at 3 TPH, so they were able to just bypass stops.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:27, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That is, their average speed was like the average speed of a local train? Vcohen (talk) 20:07, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Most likely yes. 30 MPH like trains currently run. I don't know what procedure was back then, but currently if a train is skipping a stop it has to slow down as if it were going to stop in the station, reduce to 10 MPH as it's leaving, and then goes back to full speed. —LRG5784 (talk · contribs · email)
And then the article is wrong saying that the train used the express tracks. Right? Vcohen (talk) 08:01, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In Manhattan, the JFK Express trains switched to local by West 4th and then used the Eighth Avenue local tracks. In Brooklyn, these trains did use the express tracks. The non-stop section between Jay Street and Howard Beach shared tracks with the A for part of the route. The JFK Express just went behind whatever A train was on that track at the time. I'm not sure if the JFK Express used the center tracks along the Liberty Avenue and Rockaway Lines. A more correct term for these "express" runs would be "local non-stop" along at least part of the route (Cranberry Street Tubes, the Liberty Elevated connector at Grant Ave, and the Rockaway Line at the very least).
Incidentally, the Staten Island Railway runs peak-express trains even though there are only two tracks. At the St. George terminal, the express train leaves right before the local, and there are two trains in the peak direction every 20 minutes (one express, one local). The JFK Express was like that, but with more frequent A service. The A ran local on the Fulton Line at the time, so the JFK Express had the express tracks all to itself. epicgenius (talk) 03:10, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Arch Street Shop and Yard images

I am expanding the East Side Access article right now. The ESA project includes the Arch Street Shop and Yard, a LIRR facility that was built 20 years before ESA is supposed to open. There are a lot of images in the ESA commons category, but apparently, none of the Arch Street Facility. This is what it looks like, but apparently, I can't find any images on Commons. Am I just looking in the wrong place, or are there actually no images on Commons? epicgenius (talk) 03:26, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You can check the the subcat in the Sunnyside Yard category, and if you like, you can spot a few in the Hunterspoint Avenue (LIRR station) commons category. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 05:22, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I found the Arch Street Shops category, but it wasn't under the ESA category for some reason. epicgenius (talk) 13:53, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I know, the ESA tunnel is supposed to be northeast of the Arch Street Shops. In the meantime, did you see my links about the connection to the former North Shore Freight Branch, and the old New York and Flushing Railroad? ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:45, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I read about that connection in another source. I was surprised that the yard was part of the railroad. I had thought the MTA had built the yard specifically for the ESA project (not in the ESA project site itself, which is why I added the new info to the section about related infrastructure). epicgenius (talk) 15:24, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

History of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority

I am trying to improve the Metropolitan Transportation Authority article to good article status. I was writing about the MTA's history, but now I have enough content to create a new article titled History of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. That article is already 70 KB and I have only written about the 1965-1979 history so far (the article is here). I need to trim it a little, and maybe I can do that by splitting it off into separate articles like History of the Long Island Rail Road, History of the Metro-North Railroad, History of MTA Regional Bus Operations, History of the Staten Island Railway, History of the New York City Subway, and History of the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority.

But first I was debating with myself whether or not to add the following details:

  • Strikes (except maybe the 1973 LIRR strike, and maybe the 1980 and 2005 NYCTA strikes)
  • Fare increases
  • Goings on in specific agencies (e.g. LIRR railcars, NYCTA Program for Action)
  • Specific details about year-to-year funding commitments/budget deficits
  • Failed proposals
  • Money-saving measures
  • The feuds between mayor and governor. Not just de Blasio and Cuomo, I mean those that went on a long time ago.

I would appreciate feedback on what I should include in the new article. epicgenius (talk) 01:15, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is interesting. However, it would be really great to have an overview of the history of the agency, and its role in getting projects funded/initiated.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 01:57, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is doable. There aren't really that many capital projects as far as I'm aware, except the ones under MTACC. The history is essential for a good article nomination, or even a "decent article" B-class rating. I'm still thinking about whether to cut the relatively minor financial history (because the MTA is virtually always in debt), and only mention the major setbacks like the 1975 crisis and the 1981/2010 crises. epicgenius (talk) 02:01, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I still think it is important as the financial setbacks have had major impacts on its decision-making.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 02:30, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I like the idea of a separate History of MTA Regional Bus Operations more than the others that haven't been written, although I wouldn't object to many of the other ideas either (Is there enough detail in Metro-North Railroad#History already?). I have to admit, including those other details isn't such a bad idea either, although most of the info on the fare history could be moved into New York City transit fares. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 03:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I already added some references regarding fare increases to the NYCT Fares page. I might have to move the rationales behind the fare changes, as well. I'll keep the financial info in the MTA history draft, but that's heavily dependent on fare increases, so maybe I'll write a summary of fare increases in the MTA History page. epicgenius (talk) 03:56, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I am open to all the possibilities you've listed. Regarding "History of the Metro-North Railroad," the only issue I have is how far back you'd have to go. Many of the predecessor railroads like New York and Harlem Railroad, and New York and Putnam Railroad have some decent material. The last time I checked, so did the lines west of the Hudson. New York and New Haven Railroad could use a few adjustments (I've begun to suspect that the segment between Woodlawn Junction and Shell Interlocking was the New York and Port Chester Railroad), and the New Haven Line branch articles vary from quality. The Hudson River Railroad redirects to the New York Central Railroad, and if there's some additional history for the Hudson Line, I wouldn't mind seeing the material used to split the HRR from NYC. I said I was looking forward to the "History of MTA Regional Bus Operations" the most, but even with that, there are some predecessor companies that I'm worried might be overlooked that could also use articles, like the Brooklyn and Queens Transit Corporation-owned Brooklyn Bus Corporation, and the Fifth Avenue Coach Company-owned Madison Avenue Coach Company and Eighth Avenue Coach Company. I know I've tried to give each other former private bus company articles as much material as I can. "History of the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority" might have some material from Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority before the article was renamed MTA Bridges and Tunnels, so maybe you can grab that. Bottom line, they're good ideas, but I suspect they'd be pretty packed. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 19:33, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Accessibility of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority

It was suggested here by Kew Gardens 613 the List of accessible New York City Subway stations be converted into a "full-fledged article", Accessibility in the New York City Subway. I made a suggestion that we add LIRR and Metro-North, and instead call it Accessibility of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. I've spent weeks all by myself working on this draft for the potential article: Draft:Accessibility of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. I feel like it still needs work, but what do you think of it so far? Roadrunner3000 (talk) 06:58, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article idea sounds good. We can even shorten it to MTA accessibility. I think we should also include info on Access-A-Ride and MTA Regional Bus Operations, though. The fact that all MTA buses operating today accessible isn't obvious, nor is the fact that many of them didn't use to be accessible. epicgenius (talk) 15:21, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I was thinking, especially since MTA Bus had inherited non-accessible buses from their former companies, and kept them around until around 2007 or so. Roadrunner3000 (talk) 15:50, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I see that you grabbed one of my recent pictures from the Bayside (LIRR station) commons gallery. Would you care for an additional one from Metro-North? I can offer an Irvington (Metro-North station) pic if you'd like. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 03:08, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I definitely agree with having it cover the entire MTA, as it should make it a more useful page. Also ditto to epicgenius' including of Access-A-Ride/RBO. I'll check the draft out, looking forward to this page though! -- rellmerr (talk page • contribs) 06:08, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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