Talk:Karen (slang)

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A fact from Karen (slang) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 20 May 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that one of the most common stereotypes of a Karen is asking to "speak to the manager"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Karen (slang).

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This article was nominated for deletion on May 30, 2020. The result of the discussion was Snow Keep.

race

this term has absolutely nothing to do with race. this is just the latest attempt to make everything about race in light of the recent protests.

relevance?

lol wikipedia is really going there with ridiculously trendy things to make an article of? is this even a thing that will still be relevant in six months? Wikidude10000 (talk) 04:51, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I feel inclined to agree, somewhat. This article probably serves better as one for Know Your Meme, but then if we were to do that, we'd have to apply the same rule to OK Boomer, Bye, Felicia, and so on. I suppose the real big issue making sure the article is clean and not filled with obscure jargon. -- Tytrox (talk) 09:27, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, the real issue is whether any random attack on women by disgruntled losers on the internet deserves a wikipedia page. Watch: the next one and the next one and the next one will all get pages too, and because we cannot possibly leave out a page for "OK Boomer" we're apparently stuck with all the "clever" insults made up by misogynists. Peezy1001 (talk) 16:28, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

^ Ok Karen.

Any random attack on women? Karen isn't an attack on women. It's a well defined stereotype that almost anyone in the service industry recognizes. Well worth a wikipedia-page. Dontirri (talk) 18:49, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is now the place for bigots to share "well-defined stereotypes"? Your anecdotal claims about "everyone" using the term is irrelevant. It's an attack on women by assholes and shouldn't be on wikipedia. Peezy1001 (talk) 00:14, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Whadya wanna do? Speak to the manager? :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.99.189.55 (talk) 15:01, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Educate me: Why is Karen a "random attack on women"? The simple fact that it is well defined logically removes the random-part of it atleast.

Also, do you also have a problem with Becky and Trixie? They are found on the see also-section.

How about Chad and Kyle? Or is a "random attack on men" fine by your eyes?

Since Wikipedia strives for unbiasedness, if Karen is removed, so should all those mentioned. Dontirri (talk) 10:56, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Peezy1001: Just put up a page deletion nomination up and be done with it. Your contemptuous behaviour here is wanting. -- Tytrox (talk) 04:59, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well. That settles it. I put up a nomination for deletion, and it was unanimously ruled to keep it. -- Tytrox (talk) 05:00, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Karen aka "Gretchen", "Big Gretch", and "That Woman from Michigan"

What is the relationship with Gretchen Whitmer ? --92.184.104.48 (talk) 16:04, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's immaturity from people who really don't like Whitmer, and nothing more. Sceptre (talk) 18:14, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"One Source" twinkle tag

@Fuzheado: Hey, flagging that I removed your One Source tag that you applied with Twinkle. Although I can see rational arguments about notability (which I do think it passes GNG), I think it's fairly clear from the plethora of sources that are listed here that the tag doesn't apply. Feel free to revert if you disagree, but it seemed like an off-kilter tag to me. Nomader (talk) 00:18, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nomader: Thanks for the note. I defintely think it's notable, but the origins and background are completely from one source, which is why I added it. I've modified it to be "One source section." -- Fuzheado | Talk 20:57, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Fuzheado: My mistake on removing the section version-- I didn't realize it was a different template. Completely agree here. Nomader (talk) 21:28, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Slur

The cited source for calling this term a slur is a dictionary definition that does not mention the term in any way whatsoever. I also believe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Contentious_labels would apply here. There are a number of other reasons why this term should not be described in this article as a slur, as well. If there are no objections, I'm going to revert it. Xaphnir (talk) 02:49, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It plainly is a slur, in the sense of being a derogatory or pejorative term. No one thinks this is a complimentary thing to call someone. Robofish (talk) 22:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Term used for someone who is racist?

I see multiple references in the article where the term "Karen" is used for someone discriminating or being racist against African Americans, but historically this does not seem commonplace. This article should reflect actual usage of the term on the internet. Right now the balance does not seem correct. The "Know your meme" page does not focus on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1005:B054:6B81:14F5:DC46:525D:7E31 (talk) 13:32, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's confusing, because it's a slang term with two distinct meanings that only slightly overlap. The main use on the Internet seems to be the stereotype of an over-entitled middle-aged woman who wants to 'speak to the manager', but the alternate meaning of 'racist white woman' seems to be growing in popularity lately. Maybe it would be better being split into two articles? Robofish (talk) 21:07, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, the fact that something “historically seems commonplace” or that another website doesn't describe it in the same way isn’t enough to justify changing something in an article due to our No original research and Verifiability policies. If you would like to suggest a change, consider backing it up with reliable sources that detail the term’s actual usage on the internet. MrSwagger21 (talk) 23:52, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many videos show Middle Aged Women throwing a tantrum but not all of them are according the “white / racist” stereotype. Actually many show African American women requesting the “Corporate Number”, as they have learned that the manager is never available when they ask to speak with him. PaoloMudanda (talk) 17:08, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone source a use of "Karen" by the black community that doesn't originate back to Gwen Snyder's tweet?

original research

I've gone through the first few paragraphs and removed a ton of what appeared to be original research. Article needs further work. —valereee (talk) 11:54, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Finished going through it to rem OR. —valereee (talk) 13:33, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Country of origin / use?

Is this a USA slang term? As an Australian speaker of English this term is not used there. Karen is just a normal first name. 49.178.45.209 (talk) 11:56, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this term mostly applies to the United States. Pf1127 (talk) 17:41, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The term/category/name Karen is by no means used throughout the "Western World" as pejorative. Can we limit "Western World" to "English speaking world" - as a maximum? Or probably even to the US only? This also refers to the misleading opening sentence ...

Opening sentence is misleading

The opening paragraph is misleading. A Karen is always a woman, not just a "person" but a white woman--always. Efforts to change this to reflect the gender of a Karen are repeatedly rolled back to "person" as if to signify that men can be Karens; men aren't Karens just as women are never "Kyles" or "incels" or "Chads." Attempting to neutralize the femaleness and whiteness of Karens is the ultimate Karen maneuver. Eyes down, human. (talk) 00:39, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let me add: not “always white” as there are many videos on the web with African American women throwing tantrums and/or urging to talk with the manager or to have the Corporate Number to file a complaint. PaoloMudanda (talk) 17:29, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PaoloMudanda, we need coverage of it in WP:RELIABLESOURCES. Right now what we have are sources saying it's used to refer to white women. The videos constitute WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH, which we can't use. —valereee (talk) 18:36, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look of any of the “Ultimate Public Freakout Compilation” on YouTube: have fun watching PaoloMudanda (talk) 23:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2020

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Remove the term “racist”. Even in the urban dictionary it states nothing about racist. 77.45.159.13 (talk) 04:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: This literally says that "Karen" is a stand-in for white entitlement, and then gives an example of a racist Karen in the very first sentence. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 13:19, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2020

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I don’t believe Karen qualifies as an ethnic slur. The ethnicity is not the thing being referred to, but the actions and behaviour of the person being referred to are. Under the ‘ethnic slur’ page it gives the example of Gringo which is based on their ethnicity being Latin American. A Karen is a woman who is behaving in an obnoxious way, ethnicity is not involved. 82.15.5.222 (talk) 18:02, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It conflates the "whiteness" of Karens with her obnoxiousness. If somebody called you the N word, and then said "hey, I'm not being racist, I'm using a word that refers to STUPID unruly blacks, not all black people!" That wouldn't fly, would it?

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See the section just above. Anyway this seems controversial enough that proper consensus would need to be established. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 20:12, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]