Talk:2024 Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus occupation: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 17:26, 28 April 2024

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

New York (state): Columbia University

	New York (state) portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Wikipedia:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state) articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Columbia University.

New York City Low‑importance

	New York City portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Palestine Low‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Israel Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Categorization : Diffuse articles from Category:Companies of Israel.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.
- Merge Nahal Rafiah (draft, heb) into Nahal as requested by Wikipedia authority

Israel Palestine Collaboration

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration, a collaborative, bipartisan effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. For guidelines and a participants list see the project page. See also {{Palestine-Israel enforcement}}, the ArbCom-authorized discretionary sanctions, the log of blocks and bans, and Working group on ethnic and cultural edit wars. You can discuss the project at its talk page.Israel Palestine CollaborationWikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationTemplate:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationIsrael Palestine Collaboration articles

Higher education

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Higher education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of higher education, universities, and colleges on Wikipedia. Please visit the project page to join the discussion, and see the project's article guideline for useful advice.Higher educationWikipedia:WikiProject Higher educationTemplate:WikiProject Higher educationHigher education articles

Cherrypicked Response section?

Is everyone condemning the occupation? Noone in support? The Response section looks like it was made to deliberately include only the response that condemn the occupation. 2A02:85F:E058:1000:8CB0:8FDA:A957:83E9 (talk) 13:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The vast majority of government authorities in the United States are solidly pro-Israel. Evaporation123 (talk) 23:16, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does it matter? If you see something you want to add and it has WP:RS to support it, please do.

BTW, I added AOC today. She condemned the university and the police. Kire1975 (talk) 01:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 April 2024

SNOW CLOSE

Overwhelming number of oppose sentiments, noting the WP:COMMONNAME policy and the lack of widespread use of the term in referring to this event. - Fuzheado | Talk 17:16, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It has been proposed in this section that 2024 Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus occupation be renamed and moved to Gaza Solidarity Encampment.

A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

2024 Columbia University pro-Palestinian campus occupation → Gaza Solidarity Encampment – Name given to the protest by the protesters. MountainDew20 (talk) 19:15, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose because the proposed title does not provide relevant information (it's at Columbia University in 2024) and few sources have described it this way. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 22:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ARBECR –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:28, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Disagree. Current name is more descriptive than proposed and proposed violates our commitment to a neutral point of view. But, the current is too long. Maybe once the year is over it could be moved to 2024 Columbia University protests or something else that's descriptive with the benefit of hindsight. Uhoj (talk) 21:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There still should be a better, shorter name like "Columbia University pro-Palestinian occupation" or "2024 Columbia University Protests". MountainDew20 (talk) 23:32, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ignore this, I saw you said the same. MountainDew20 (talk) 23:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with "2024 Columbia University protests" is that there have been multiple 2024 protests at Columbia before 17 April, for example over the skunk attack incident in January. This ongoing protest is different because of the nature of how it is being conducted (a campus occupation). Evaporation123 (talk) 23:40, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree: Not everyone protesting on the Columbia campus is part of the encampment, such as the faculty that recently walked out in support of the students. Perfecnot (talk) 21:59, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose we don't have to use the official name of things, and the overall scope of this article is wider than just the encampment. Elli (talk | contribs) 22:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, Gaza Solidarity Encampment redirects to this page anyways, and the scope of the article is beyond just the area of tents being that there is activity all over campus and around its perimeter as well. Evaporation123 (talk) 23:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose we should use the name commonly used in the sources. User:Sawerchessread (talk) 01:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose due to NPOV name without adequate justification, and different name used by RS. FortunateSons (talk) 07:59, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose inappropriate and not widely used EmyRussell (talk) 23:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I'm mostly concerned with WP:TOOSOON to use the official name, but I think there is a strong argument to be made for WP:NPOV in the name as well. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 15:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: suggest close per SNOW FortunateSons (talk) 13:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 April 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Background could be read to mean that it's outside agitators making their way to Columbia rather than students of the university. Here's one way to clarify the situation:

Uhoj (talk) 21:39, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done Elli (talk | contribs) 22:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 April 2024 (2)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

change: "The protests encouraged other actions at New York University and Yale University." to "The protests encouraged other actions at New York University, Yale University, MIT, Tufts University, Emerson College, and University of Michigan." Oldhum (talk) 20:33, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Current iteration of the sentence in question has been altered to reflect an entire page made regarding this topic, being Pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses in the United States. There is an active merge request being discussed regarding this article. Until that discussion concludes, I'd say editing the sentence in question is outside the scope of the non-controversial nature of edit requests. —Sirdog (talk) 06:46, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand what a merge discussion has to do with this sentence. Brusquedandelion (talk) 11:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mention of "Burn Tel Aviv" and praise for hamas in the article

https://www.timesofisrael.com/dozens-arrested-at-yale-columbia-pauses-in-person-classes-amid-anti-israel-protests/ https://www.nationalreview.com/news/pro-palestinian-protesters-outside-columbia-urge-hamas-to-burn-tel-aviv-to-the-ground/ It's claim that they are peaceful protests, so it's important to give context. I think it's important to mention that they are praising hamas (a terror organzation in USA) and are calling to burn tel aviv. 84.110.218.178 (talk) 15:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources

National Review is considered partisan. I think Times of Israel can be cited.

We can probably include better sources of the documented antisemitic chants. User:Sawerchessread (talk) 21:21, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

added something to April 21st. User:Sawerchessread (talk) 21:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The only time "burn tel aviv to the ground" appears in the times of israel article is from a linked tweet by a former Israeli ambassador and "Director of the Digital Diplomacy Bureau, Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs." This is not a reliable source. Kire1975 (talk) 22:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yeah, times of Israel apparently lurched rightwards sometime in the past few decades. I have no clue what consensus is, its not banned on WP:RSP but its not mentioned either. User:Sawerchessread (talk) 22:59, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There was a discussion at RSN a while ago, it didn’t really go in depth, but to the best of my knowledge, no consensus against. FortunateSons (talk) 13:18, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think National Review can be cited with attribution, but as we have a likely better source, I agree with no use here as long as those are enough FortunateSons (talk) 13:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We should include a section about allegations of antisemitism eventually. User:Sawerchessread (talk) 17:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, but I would wait a few days for a clearer picture of the reporting FortunateSons (talk) 17:26, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"caused by anti Zionist sentiment"

In the infobox the first cause mentioned is antizionism. Wouldn't this be better phrased as anti-genocide and anti-apartheid? 2A02:A03F:6617:9501:F1DE:1112:C6A5:8140 (talk) 19:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. Do you know what genocide is? I guess not.. bc there's no objective way to claim what happens in Gaza is a genocide.

Same goes to the apartheid argument- how is it possible to claim apartheid if up until the war (initiated by Hamas) there were no Israelis in Gaza (no politicians nor army).

I don't mean to insult you, but it's very important that Wikipedia will remain a source of reliable information, and not rewritten by ignorants (which again, it's not an insult, just a request for you to educate yourself before editing a topic you're ignorant of). 2A0D:6FC2:4450:FA00:3F2E:305C:4A5C:D7F (talk) 08:25, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should write about what specific reliable sources say about these protests and their causes. Although question of genocide and apartheid are connected to the larger pro-Palestinian protests, I haven't seen that naming them as such specifically is warranted. BaronRudor (talk) 13:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Anti-Zionism" basically covers all of that Evaporation123 (talk) 20:55, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

encampment subsection

Encampment section should be separate, not a subsection of background section 2A02:A03F:6617:9501:F1DE:1112:C6A5:8140 (talk) 19:29, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline

Should we consider a different structure instead of counting every day of events? Clearly some dates are more important than others.

If this encampment goes several days more, maybe we can try to do some different structure. User:Sawerchessread (talk) 17:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 92: / Line 92: @@
 Encampment section should be separate, not a subsection of background section [[Special:Contributions/2A02:A03F:6617:9501:F1DE:1112:C6A5:8140|2A02:A03F:6617:9501:F1DE:1112:C6A5:8140]] ([[User talk:2A02:A03F:6617:9501:F1DE:1112:C6A5:8140|talk]]) 19:29, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
+== Timeline ==
+Should we consider a different structure instead of counting every day of events? Clearly some dates are more important than others.
+If this encampment goes several days more, maybe we can try to do some different structure. [[User:Sawerchessread]] ([[User talk:Sawerchessread|talk]]) 17:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)