This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Christine Lagarde article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
A news item involving Christine Lagarde was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 29 June 2011.
Wikipedia
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Economics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Economics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EconomicsWikipedia:WikiProject EconomicsTemplate:WikiProject EconomicsEconomics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Veganism and Vegetarianism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of veganism and vegetarianism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Veganism and VegetarianismWikipedia:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismTemplate:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismVeganism and Vegetarianism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Business, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles about women in business on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in BusinessWikipedia:WikiProject Women in BusinessTemplate:WikiProject Women in BusinessWomen in Business articles
As mentioned in a subsection, Christine Lagarde is a convicted criminal (for negligence in the use of public funds). This is very important information to surface, and it is front-and-center in the bios of other high-profile criminals. JonQalg (talk) 20:08, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Along with my edit to the description, I would like to add the relevant sections for the cutout: Criminal status, Conviction, etc JonQalg (talk) 20:33, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The article already mentions Lagarde's conviction in the fourth paragraph of the lead, and devotes a three-paragraph subsection to it. This seems to be perfectly adequate coverage to me. Lagarde is absolutely not predominantly known for her criminal convictions in a way which would justify including it in the first sentence of her biography, ahead of her roles as politician, lawyer, and president of the ECB as this edit attempted to do. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 15:29, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That edit appears to be the appropriate place for something that merits a three-paragraph subsection. She had become very well known for her recent criminal conviction, likely because of her role as president of the ECB, a role that one imagines requires a lack of negligence in the use of public funds. JonQalg (talk) 23:31, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've reverted this out of the first sentence. It likely should have a sentence somewhere later in the lead, but it's placement in the first sentence is undue. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 00:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this. Reliable sources do not generally regard the conviction as central to her notability Tristario (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have reverted the addition of the word "criminal" because that is not how the sources characterize the conviction of "negligence". In fact, one source says that the criminal case had been dropped. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:30, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The NYT source calls it a “criminal conviction” JonQalg (talk) 02:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:BLPPUBLIC we need multiple sources saying that. And even if some do, if most of them don't, we should probably still avoid or put less emphasis on that wording per WP:NPOVTristario (talk) 02:39, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of removing my edit, please suggest an alternative edit that will surface this important information. JonQalg (talk) 02:37, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Important to whom? What matters on Wikipedia are the policies and guidelines that govern what we say about living persons, not any editor's opinion of what is "important". Just saying "conviction" is sufficient. The WP:BURDEN is on you, not anyone else, to support the assertion you want to add. Of the 10 sources cited in that paragraph, none of them mention the word "criminal" or "crime" in the context of this conviction of "negligence"; in fact the Bloomberg source says a criminal suit was dropped. I cannot see the NYT source. As far as I can tell, you are committing a violation of WP:BLP by including it, and edit-warring about it without meeting WP:BURDEN will likely lead to a block on your account. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:51, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Your assertions about the sources are incorrect. A I have mentioned, the NYT source linked clearly states it is a “criminal conviction.” What more proof do you need? JonQalg (talk) 04:59, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Letter intended for Sarkozy
Having checked Le Monde, I adjusted the wording. Clarification was needed because at the time when the letter was apparently drafted, Sarkozy was most likely president, not former president. It isn't clear that the document is relevant to the "criminal conviction" under which we mention it, rather than the "ministerial career" which we currently deal with very briefly. Andrew Dalby 15:12, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
.jpg){kind=small}
.svg){kind=small}
