Talk:Ferdinand Magellan
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List of other survivors.
Indigenous people: Juan Cermeño, Francisco (slave), Manuel, interested in the value of the currency and the price of pepper. and the price of pepper, so the three are forbidden to leave Spain.
Island of Santiago (Cape Verde) 9th July 1522, 12 men were retained, on the 14th Elcano set sail.
List of detainees:
- Martín Méndez, secretary of the fleet.
- Pedro de Tolosa, storekeeper.
- Richard de Lombardía, carpenter.
- Roland de Argate, gunner.
- Simón de Burgos, constable.
- Juan and Pedro Martín, supernumeraries.
- Sailors: Felipe de Rodas, Gómez Hernández, Bocacho Alonso, and Pedro de Chinduza.
- and Pedro de Chinduza.
- Cabin boy, Pasquito.
They returned weeks later to Seville via Lisbon.
Previously there was another group of 5 crew members from the Nao Trinidad, prisoners of the Portuguese at El Maluco. They returned in 1525-26 in 1525-26:
- León Pancaldo, pilot.
- Gonzalo Gómez de Espinosa, constable.
- Hans Berguen, artilleryman.
- Juan Rodriguez "the deaf", sailor.
- Jinés de Mafra, sailor.
Berguen died shortly after they all arrived at the Lisbon prison of Minoeiro. of Minoeiro.
This is the list of the survivors who returned to Sanlúcar after their round-the-world trip:
- Name Position
- Juan Sebastián Elcano, from Guetaria Captain
- Francisco Albo, from Axio (Greece)22 Pilot
- Miguel de Rodas, from Rhodes (Greece) Pilot
- Juan de Acurio, from Bermeo Pilot
- Antonio Lombardo Pigafetta, of Vicenza (Italy) Outstanding
- Martín de Yudícibus, of Savona (Italy) Mariner
- Hernando de Bustamante, from Mérida Sailor and barber
- Nicolas the Greek, of Nafplio (Greece) Seaman
- Miguel Sanchez de Rodas, of Rhodes (Greece) Seaman
- Antonio Hernández Colmenero, from Ayamonte (Ayamonte) Seaman
- Francisco Rodríguez, from Seville (Portugal) Sailor
- Juan Rodríguez, from Huelva Seaman
- Diego Carmena Gallego, from Bayonne Sailor
- Hans, from Aachen (Germany) Artilleryman
- Juan de Arratia, from Bilbao Cabin boy
- Vasco Gómez Gallego el Portugués, from Bayonne Cabin boy
- Juan de Santander,23, from Cueto Cabin boy
- Juan de Zubileta, from Baracaldo Pageboy
- Juan Griego (Greek) from the Napoli di Romania (Nauplio).
Fernando de Magallanes - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre Jcollmart (talk) 18:23, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- We would need reliable sources to add those names, and I do not see sources cited for more than two of those men in the Spanish Wikipedia article (and I have not evaluated the usefulness of those sources). - Donald Albury 18:38, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- La 2 fuente está igualmente abriendo la página de Wikipedia, cambiar idioma a Español y allí escribir "Fernando de Magallanes", una vez abierto poner traductor a English en EL NAVEGADOR QUE USE, NO EN LA WIKIPEDIA. Jcollmart (talk) 17:17, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- Wikipedia, in any language, is not a reliable source. See Wikipedia:Reliable sources#User-generated content and es:Wikipedia:Fuentes fiables#Autopublicaciones. - Donald Albury 20:04, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- La primera vuelta al mundo: el brutal viaje de Magallanes y Elcano hace 500 años en el que solo sobrevivieron 18 de los 250 tripulantes - BBC News Mundo Jcollmart (talk) 15:47, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- What do you want to use that source for? There are enough English language sources available to eliminate any need for sources in other languages, unless a non-English source is the only available source for some important detail that participating editors feel must be included in the article. I doubt that an item published by the BBC in Spanish would contain any information that is not already available in English-language sources. As for the list of names you added above earlier, I personally see no purpose in listing all of the survivors of the expedition. How would listing their names help readers of the article understand the subject? - Donald Albury 17:47, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- It helps to know the story: the survivors traveled 24 hours a day on the ship's deck while Magellan had a cabin in the hold. They ate, slept and worked through sun, rain and storms. They made the same voyage and most of them came from the European continent.
- So their merit is greater than that of the "protagonist".
- But if you think it does not contribute anything you can delete what you consider "for your status in Wiki, not for your reason". Jcollmart (talk) 08:59, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
- Please see Wikipedia:Victim lists. While that essay is about victims, rather than survivors, I think similar reasoning applies. I will not edit war with you, but do not be surprised if other editors also object to you adding a list of unnotable names to the article. Donald Albury 15:54, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
- These are extremely notable names. In particular, I was just now trying to find the list of survivors from the Trinidad who would've been the 2nd set of circumnavigators and might've made notable appearances in subsequent Spanish missions like Hans of Aachen did for both Loaisa's and Villalobos's. The list just needs to be sourced and belongs at List of circumnavigators or Magellan Expedition and not here. — LlywelynII 17:24, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
- Please see Wikipedia:Victim lists. While that essay is about victims, rather than survivors, I think similar reasoning applies. I will not edit war with you, but do not be surprised if other editors also object to you adding a list of unnotable names to the article. Donald Albury 15:54, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
- What do you want to use that source for? There are enough English language sources available to eliminate any need for sources in other languages, unless a non-English source is the only available source for some important detail that participating editors feel must be included in the article. I doubt that an item published by the BBC in Spanish would contain any information that is not already available in English-language sources. As for the list of names you added above earlier, I personally see no purpose in listing all of the survivors of the expedition. How would listing their names help readers of the article understand the subject? - Donald Albury 17:47, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- La 2 fuente está igualmente abriendo la página de Wikipedia, cambiar idioma a Español y allí escribir "Fernando de Magallanes", una vez abierto poner traductor a English en EL NAVEGADOR QUE USE, NO EN LA WIKIPEDIA. Jcollmart (talk) 17:17, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
Not the first
The first who circumnavigated the world was Mangelan's helper (slave?) from the Moluccas.
Relationship
This is actually kinda important since Duarte Barbosa and Serrano refusing to honor Enrique of Malacca's manumission (a) was based on preserving his 'value' for the widow, (b) led directly to a ton a dead Spaniards and a lost-in-the-wind Enrique, (c) which might've made him the world's first circumnavigator and (d) together make the sexiest part of the story aside from the w3Lakʃjuəllymagellandiedhalfwaythrough/civilizationisalie.
This main article on the topic says Magellan married Barbosa's daughter(?)/stepdaughter(?) based on "geneall.com", which certainly doesn't sound like a WP:RS even if I could get it to load; Barbosa's page says it was his sister based on a much stronger source
- {{citation |last=Barbosa |first=Duarte |author-link=Duarte Barbosa |display-authors=0 |url=https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.47302/page/n5/mode/2up |title=The Book of Duarte Barbosa: An Account of the Countries Bordering on the Indian Ocean and Their Inhabitants, Written by Duarte Barbosa, and Completed about the Year 1518 A.D... |volume=I |editor-last=Dames |editor-first=Mansel Longworth |location=London |publisher=Hakluyt Society |date=1918 |series=''Series 2, No. XLIV'' |p=[https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.47302/page/n47/mode/2up xlvi] }}.
and the Spanish Royal Academy of History + Google Autotranslate (sure I know...) says it was Barbosa's cousin
- {{citation |contribution-url=https://dbe.rah.es/biografias/94240/duarte-barbosa |contribution=Duarte Barbosa |url=https://dbe.rah.es/db~e |title=Diccionario Biográfico Electrónico |publisher=Royal Academy of History |location=Madrid |lang=es }}.
1) It would be good if we could get some good recent scholarship to nail down the exact relationship and use it across the project, certainly on this page at least. 2) Failing that, we need to be presenting the mess in the surviving sources with some context about why it's this messy. — LlywelynII 17:22, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Eh?
- The accusations were proven false, but he received no further offers of employment after 15 May 1514. Later in 1515, he was offered employment...
So two different editors are contradicting themselves? or someone a word? — LlywelynII 13:58, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
Crew list
here doesn't match other entries. There's a cite to Bergreen that I can't check online but seems dubious. The actual source for the nationality numbers seems to be the blog entry by Serrano, which isn't bad for what it is but what it isn't is a WP:RS. — LlywelynII 14:12, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
Place of birth
Sources seem to conflict on Magellan's birth place, with this page currently stating Sabrosa, but the Portuguese Wikipedia saying Ponte da Barca or Porto. Is there a consensus on either? HapHaxion (talk / contribs) 14:23, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- There doesn't seem to be a consensus but Joyner has a pretty good explanation for the confusion. There was a will filed in 1504 by a "Ferdinand Magellan" that indicated his birthplace was Sabrosa. But doubt has been cast on this document-the Portuguese Wikipedia calls it a forgery and Joyner says it was likely a different person (the name was relatively common and several people were at court with the same name). Meanwhile, many authors since the nineteenth century have used Sabrosa and the birthplace continues to be used in some (but not all) sources, including Bergreen. A more cautious statement might be born somewhere in northern Portugal, possibly Porto or Sabrosa. Glendoremus (talk) 16:31, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 20 May 2023
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For the Secondary sources of the Further reading section, someone forgot to put a refend thing. 2600:8800:590E:BB00:E860:2D74:94F1:B45B (talk) 01:58, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
His death
Magellan's death at the Battle of Mactan is mentioned five times in the article: twice in the lead (2nd and 4th paragraphs, in the Voyage section (7th paragraph), the Death section, and in the Reputation following circumnavigation section (4th paragraph). The Battle of Mactan is mentioned five of six times (with three of them linked to the article), and details of the battle are given in both the Voyage section and the Death section. I think that is a bit disorganized and can be tightened up. In particular, covering his death twice in the lead is a problem. I may come back to this in a few days and take a stab at cleaning it up. Donald Albury 13:36, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Nationality
After renouncing his Portuguese nationality in 1517, he adopted the Spanish one, yet the article makes no mention of this. Shouldn't this be noted? Alvarocoras10 (talk) 01:04, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
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