Talk:List of best-selling game consoles: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous editNext edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
WOWL (talk | contribs)
111 edits
→‎Console weight?: new section
Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit New topic
Line 219: Line 219:


just a few examples not to mention the really old heavy hitters. WOWL[[User:WOWL|WOWL]] 17:46, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
just a few examples not to mention the really old heavy hitters. WOWL[[User:WOWL|WOWL]] 17:46, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

:Yes, it should be deleted outright. Weight has no bearing on best-selling console tracking. [[User:Sergecross73|<span style="color:green">Sergecross73</span>]] [[User talk:Sergecross73|<span style="color:teal">msg me</span>]] 17:49, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:49, 28 April 2024

[Request] Can the steam deck be added to the list?

It is estimated that the steam deck has passed the estimated 1 million mark with 3 million units sold up to date.

To bring more awareness to the platform that is so pro-consumer with its myriad of choice and games on sale.

The only conflict with this suggestion is that it is a pc gaming handhold. Ralimbahere (talk) 01:55, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You answered yourself. It's a PC gaming handheld. It's not seen as a console by Wikipedia or reliable secondary sources. -- ferret (talk) 02:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's very clearly a hand held console. It simply uses the PC's game's. It's a Linux based system even, where as most gaming PC's are Windows.
Does this mean the Playstation 3 should be listed as a PC? "The original PlayStation 3 also included the ability to install other operating systems, such as Linux." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3 71.212.151.70 (talk) 21:56, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, because sources do not consider the PS3 to be a PC. Sources do consider the Steam Deck to be a "handheld PC" though. Wikipedia reports what reliable sources say. -- ferret (talk) 22:17, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Being a handheld PC does not exclude it from being a console though. A car can be a people carrier or a commercial vehicle or both. All PCs, consoles, Macintoshs, smart phones, tablets etc. are computers. Some devices fall into multiple subcategories. Terr-E (talk) 23:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, quite true. Except this is Wikipedia, and we report was reliable sources say, and the vast majority do not report it as a console. They explicitly call it a handheld PC, so we follow that. -- ferret (talk) 23:36, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the late reply, you gave me quite the task! This is a good thing because it made me take a step back and try to objectively research this conundrum.
Going by Wikipedia:GAMESOURCES I went to every site mentioned under General gaming and General computing/technology. Weeding out some dead sites and some niche sites (like retrogaming or Japanese gaming specifically) I ended up with 24 sites from this list and looked up a review of the Steam Deck, or in lieu of a review I'd settle for a news item of the Steam Deck's announcement. Of these 24, 10 refer to the Steam Deck as a console at least once. Some of the remaining 14 do not mention PC or console and simply refer to it as "the Steam Deck" or "the device".
Several sites use both terms throughout the article ( and rightfully so ).
Furthermore, even within Wikipedia the Steam Deck is referred to as a console, appearing in Handheld_game_console and List_of_handheld_game_consoles.
Like I said, I consider the Steam Deck as a device that counts as both a handheld PC as well as a handheld console.
Therefor I resubmit the request to add the Steam Deck to List of best-selling game consoles. Terr-E (talk) 03:36, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Uhhh, this "demonstration" is kind of meaningless without actually showing any of your work. It's not persuasive at all without any evidence. If we allowed for this, I could just walk in and say "Oh yeah? Well I did a search and I found 40 sources that call it a PC!" Sergecross73 msg me 14:42, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not entirely sure what you are asking of me ?
"actually showing any of your work" Do you need me to write a news article for a tech news site site and do a poll among thousands of people?
I try to play by the rules of Wikipedia as closely as I think possible, and all I get is scolded?
ferret stated "we report was reliable sources say, and the vast majority do not report it as a console. They explicitly call it a handheld PC" and I used reliable sources from Wikipedia's own reliable sources page to show that his statement was untrue. What could I have done differently?
Also by his logic, at least 7 other entries in this page would be disqualified. The Oculus Quest/Quest 2 are clearly classified as VR headsets, the Philips CD-i and the 3DO Interactive Multiplayer are, like the Steam Deck, not pure consoles, and the PC Engine CD-ROM, Mega-CD and Famicom Disk System are add-ons not consoles in their own right. Clearly this page allows for more than just devices classified as pure consoles, so why are you so hellbent on not extending this to the Steam Deck?
I feel like you guys are being too strict here. I am not trying to convince anyone that the Steam Deck is NOT a handheld PC, I'm just trying to show that even within Wikipedia's own guidelines it is reported as both PC and a console.
Please help me understand what you want from me, I am really trying here. Terr-E (talk) 16:42, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You...think it's "too strict" to ask you to..present the sources you're talking about? You've vaguely allude to 24 separate sources...and presented zero of them. That's what I'm talking about. Sergecross73 msg me 17:50, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, I think it's too strict to exclude one multi-functional device from a list that already contains multiple other multi-functional devices that don't fulfill the criteria ferret mentioned, on the seemingly sole basis that ferret (also without sources) claims that one of the functions which does not qualify for inclusion on the page trumps all others.
I stated I used the sites from Wikipedia:GAMESOURCES but I assume you mean you need deep-links to the articles I found, is that correct?
If so, I apologize that I didn't catch that the first time. Terr-E (talk) 18:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Mentions the Steam Deck as a console only:
Uses both console and PC:
In my previous statement I erroneously counted "Edge" as a separate source, however I just realized that it now redirects to GamesRadar+, which is already on the list. Terr-E (talk) 19:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a distinct platform with platform specific games. That's one of the key aspects of game consoles compared to PC gaming as a category. The Steam Deck just plays PC games for which it meets the system requirements. oknazevad (talk) 21:17, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The same can be said for the Xbox, Xbox One and Xbox Series. All x86/x64 based machines that run Windows games.
As well as the Dendy, NES Classic Edition and Pegasus which are on this list, all of which run games made for the NES/Famicom. And the Super NES Classic Edition, which does so for the original SNES/Super Famicom. Terr-E (talk) 21:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not the same thing. Firstly, the Xboxes do not run Windows games, they run Xbox games. Yes, the games are easily ported from one standard to the other because of the similarity of the platforms, but they're still not compatible because of the differences, however small they may be. You are mistaken in that claim.
The famiclones are an interesting case, because they are unauthorized and unlicensed clones. Their inclusion is questionable, but they exist as systems that can play any compatible game though at the same time are limited to said compatible games.
The classic editions are closed devicesthat run included old games via emulation (ignoring for the moment that they have been cracked and modified by users). They're an entirely different thing, not the same as a console with the theoretical ability to support an infinite number of games for it. Honestly, I don't think they belong here. We don't have the Genesis Mini, PC Engine/Turbografx-16 Mini, or other such retro units listed. The only reason I can think to have the Nintendo ones is because we have sales figures for them (and because they were very much hyped). I would just rather remove them.
Either way, I don't think they support your claims to add the Steam Deck. oknazevad (talk) 23:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your feedback. The Xboxes (excluding the 360) run a custom version of the same Windows OS that PC's use, and their hardware similarly uses the same components and ISA. The only limitation is an artificial one imposed by Microsoft. They have more in common with the Steam Deck than with the Sony or Nintendo consoles. I mentioned the Xboxes simply because they areas close to a PC as the Steam Deck is.
The Genesis Mini and the Turbografx Mini I assume are not mentioned because they don't break the 1M sold, which seems to be the cut-off point for this "best selling" article. The Atari Jaguar and the Ouya are also omitted with sales <200.000 units. (although I couldn't find a reliable source for the Turbografx Mini sales figures.)
Also, the "distinct platform with platform specific games" argument isn't mentioned anywhere on Video game console or Handheld game console so it seems very subjective. The argument could similarly be made that Steam itself is a "distinct platform with platform specific games". Terr-E (talk) 00:19, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The 360 system software is still a version of Windows, just ported to the Power architecture.
Even then, that still doesn't matter. There's no binary compatibility between Xbox games and PCs, or vice-versa. And your last sentence is the fundamental flaw. The Steam Deck just runs PC games. Someone buying a game through the Steam storefront for their (Linux-based) desktop PC and for a Steam Deck gets the exact same binary. That is not true for someone buying a game for an Xbox and a Windows-based PC.
Additionally, for some further consideration, most modern arcade machines just use commodity PC hardware (or an inexpensive full PC) with a stripped-down embedded form of Windows to run the game software, but that software will not run on a consumer PC without alteration. It's a closed ecosystem specific to that arcade machine. That's part of what defines a console platform in the present day: a game binary is specifically for that platform. The Steam Deck does not have that.
But let's flip the script. I consider it strong evidence that the Steam Deck is just a PC with a handheld form factor is the fact that one can outright install LibreOffice on the unit. Once cannot install Microsoft Office on an Xbox (being able to use Office 365 via web browser is not installing it natively). oknazevad (talk) 03:18, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your search results omits the third side of the argument though - that is not a console - and the prevalence of those results is one of the reasons why there hasn't been a consensus to add it to the article. Here's a sampling:
I deliberately omitted the third side, because that is already the current status of the discussion.
Your quotes from Popular mechanics and Kotaku are valid, I concur. However the articles from PC Gamer and PC Mag do not mention the Steam Deck explicitly not being a console. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. The prevalence of results you talk about is not adequately demonstrated by 2 sources on the "nay" side of the argument vs 9 sources on the "yea" side. Also magazines with "PC" in the title I would not consider as objective when settling a dispute over whether something is sufficiently "console" enough.
If this was a binary decision (as in; if it is a PC it can't be a console), I would have agreed immediately that it shouldn't be on the list. My argument is that it is both. And there are plenty sources that consider it at least a hybrid of PC and console. It also looks and functions primarily as a console, with a (albeit large) handheld console form-factor and a default User interface (both the physical buttons and the software) aimed at the gaming aspect of the device, not the PC aspect.
All of this however does not warrant a consensus either way, but the result is rather binary even if the options are not. Either it goes on the list or it doesn't and there is no middle way I can think of in terms of consensus. It can't go on the list "a little bit". From the consensus page:
"If an edit is challenged, or is likely to be challenged, editors should use talk pages to explain why an addition, change, or removal improves the article, and hence the encyclopedia."
So that might give us another perspective on this dilemma. Does the inclusion or exclusion of the Steam Deck result in the article being improved? To this I put forward the following notion: Both consoles and PC's are evolving with time. The PC's have gained functionality previously indicative of a console, going from monochrome text-based devices mainly for productivity to veritable Swiss army knives of home electronics including gaming to rival any console. Similarly the consoles have since the turn of the century gained many features typically not previously associated with consoles such as audio/video entertainment and web-browsing. The Steam Deck more than any other device previously has tried (and arguably succeeded) to bridge the ever narrowing gap between PC and console.
The question on my mind therefore is "Would visitors of this page reasonably expect the Steam Deck to be on this list?" (assuming it meets the criterium of'best-selling')
And I conclude that the inclusion of the Steam Deck to be more of an improvement than a detriment to this list. Terr-E (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I see why itbcould be considered a console. Its meant for gaming and 20 years from now new games wont be able to play on it therefore giving it its own game library. But now i see the point that it is just a computer. A laptop. A uniscreen small laptop with no keyboard. I dont know, could fall on both really. WOWLWOWL 02:08, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Is the Valve Steam Deck an improvement to this list?

Should this list contain the Valve Steam Deck? Is it "enough console" or "too much PC" for it to be on this list? Terr-E (talk) 01:15, 3 December 2023 (UTC) I would like to add a note regarding the first Kotaku source, which could be important in looking at these statements. By "There's a reason the machine's box is the size of a small bookshelf: it's not a console...", it appears they are using the word "console" to mean a home video game system. This is incorrect by a dictionary's definition of "console", but it is fairly common to see people use it that way. This CNET article is another example of this usage. TavianCLirette (talk) 09:16, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - there is not consensus in the industry or on Wikipedia that Steam Deck is a console. Such a thing would need to be decided on its own article first, not on this list about sales, anyways, so this RFC doesn't really make sense. Sergecross73 msg me 01:41, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Just because it's has a handheld form factor doesn't make it any less of a PC than a desktop or notebook. oknazevad (talk) 03:53, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, as a follow up thought, there's no such thing as a game you need a Steam Deck specifically to play. I'm not just talking the existence of exclusive titles, I mean that a particular copy of a game requires a Steam Deck specifically and is not playable on any other hardware. That's always been a defining feature of a console vs computer gaming. Every copy of every game the Steam Deck can be used to play is playable on non-Steam hardware. oknazevad (talk) 13:40, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggest leaving it out (Invited by the bot) I'm presuming from the discussion that it's PC software based. IMO the common meaning of "console" in electronic games includes software specialized for the system, not running on a PC OS. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:13, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Include - The Steam Deck is attempting to be a hand held console much like the Switch. It runs on Linux, which is recognized as a PC OS, but they are doing that to keep it open-sourced. They're trying to go where no console or hand held has ever gone before. Because it is Linux based, yes, it can run Linux software commonly found on PCs. These things should not be held against it. The fact that they want an open sourced gaming platform that runs on an open source OS shouldn't force a PC label on them. Look at a picture of it. It's basically a Switch, regardless of the OS. If the Switch is a "console," so is the Steam Deck. StarHOG (Talk) 14:01, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The problem with this argument though is that Steam deck still relies on getting games on Steam and it doesn't have its own physical media storage too. Not only that, consoles like Nintendo Switch have their own devikits to develop games. So I don't think Steam Deck should be on the list, and side note, Steam Deck doesn't have any actual sales data from Valve just yet. Sponge123 (talk) 05:36, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Existing consensus at Steam Deck, repeatedly reaffirmed, is that reliable secondary sourcing calls it a handheld PC. This is why the parent article explicitly doesn't state console. It's not a console, therefore doesn't go on this list. -- ferret (talk) 15:37, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Include - The Steam Deck obviously has a console form factor, is being referred to as a console by multiple reputable sources, is primarily focused on gaming (the PC aspect is clearly an alternative use), is made by a company with no other ties to PC hardware manufacturing but instead with a strong 25 year background in gaming. The fact that is can be used as a PC does not exclude it from being a console. Especially when the console part is presented as the primary use case evident by the form factor and the fact that it by default boots up with a console GUI and the PC desktop needs to be manually activated. The fact that the console GUI has a desktop OS basis is irrelevant, as the various Xbox devices are also defined as consoles, despite the fact they too are based on an x86/x64 ISA and run on a desktop OS basis.
Terr-E (talk) 17:04, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Even Valve describes it as portable handheld PC and not a console on their website Gemini.skywalker (talk) 02:11, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support what is considered a computer or a pc is arbitrary depending on software, bioses and input devices. Playstation is technically a pc due to Net Yaroze, Linux for PS2 and OtherOS on PS3. The steam deck os is a hybrid os with a clear console mode optimised for gaming like a console. 185.31.155.124 (talk) 18:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Not only is that factually incorrect to each items definition, but it's implausible to follow that sort of logic, or we'd have to include ever single mobile phone, tablet, calculator, etc. It's not workable. Sergecross73 msg me 20:02, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Include - For me it's, "would this list benefit from the inclusion, and would Joe Bloggs expect it." I believe it's yes and yes. Good sources like NYTimes and BBC call the steam a console; retailers like Amazon call it a console, and the website themselves call it console-like. I think including this console benefits the page being by including it.Halbared (talk) 13:25, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I do consider the Steam Deck to be a console, even if Steam describes it as a "portable handheld PC", it would be an extension of that PC in the form of a handheld console, also the logic of the list benefitting from the inclusion makes the most sense to me. MaximusEditor (talk) 21:06, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Include - The list will benefit from inclusion, it's understood by an average person to be a console. As mentioned before, the list already includes devices that make use of technology not primarily meant for gaming devices. Xbox, PlayStation (OtherOS, PS2 Linux). Nintendo Switch and the Oculus Quest VR headsets make use of smartphone technology both in hardware and software. The list even includes Nokia N-Gage, a mobile phone. Tracerneo (talk) 23:29, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Include:
although it is indeed a small portable computer, my senses tell me it should be included since its primarily a gaming console. 99/100 will buy it just for gaming purposes. When its hardware becomes outdated enough to be able to play newer pc games it will define its own game library. There are other consoles in this list with double purposes or that do not function without the main console so this would just be another one of those “different” cases. It is a console and it is a pc. But it doesnt come with keyboard mouse etc so its main focus is being a console. WOWLWOWL 13:18, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Where do we draw the line? Is this an exception just because of its form factor? Because functionally, you could say the same thing for arguing to include any sort of computer or tablet to be included. All these "my sense tell me" don't provide us with a functional path forward. We can't use anecdotes and "vibes" as inclusion criteria. Sergecross73 msg me 14:08, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I understand what you mean. Its not clear but same thing happens with nokia ngage, oculus, the other virtual reality goggles. Even more as others have stated, the sega cd, the famicom disk system etc are not even consoles on there own. I think it comes down to factual numbers of units sold with this sort of thing. No i dont think normal pcs or tablets as well as cellphones fall into this category because their main function is not gaming. This on the other hand was designed and manufactured to play steam games in mind. That it has a native os too that allows you for other things if you want, sure. So does the wii if you want to install linux or windows on it you can. What i mean with senses is just a very intuitive / soft way of saying that i agree with most people, logically it should be considered a console mainly. if you want to play and maybe have an os for something steamdeck. If you want an os and maybe play things, laptop, cellphone or tablet. I guarantee you that os game developers are now taking steam deck capabilities into consideration, the person responsible for making this decision can look for sources like that to avail the inclusion. Its up to them really, its not gonna change public perception. WOWLWOWL 22:45, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not following. Sergecross73 msg me 23:04, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, english is not my first language. Im tired from work so i wasnt trying my best at keeping the way of speaking of an american. I literally wrote the way my native language would speak but in english. WOWLWOWL 23:36, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Include - I don't think the definition of a console and a handheld PC are mutually exclusive, despite being technically a PC, it's still a dedicated gaming-first device with an appearance and a software experience that matches the one of a console, and there are devices on this list that are out of the box not exclusively gaming devices, like the Meta Quest and the Nokia N-Gage, both of which run smartphone hardware and software internally. It has also been referred to as a console by sources such as Forbes, The Verge, Digital Trends and The New York Times, and has been compared to other handheld gaming consoles like the Nintendo Switch numerous times. Lexd2g (talk) 04:09, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Steam Deck is not a console at all, it doesn't have its own devkit to develope games on and you still get games Steam. So not sure why it takes some complicated tech jargons to explain why Steam Deck is a console when it's not. And just because Steam Deck is not on this best selling console list doesn't mean it's not relevent in the console market, because clearly many PC and console players do play games on Steam Deck too. Sponge123 (talk) 05:41, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Include - The Steam Deck is listed at List of handheld game consoles, so i feel like for consistency, it should be included on lists about game consoles, even if it isn't a console in the traditional sense. NowInHD (talk) 21:59, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi protected edit request (made on a Sunday, on February 18, 2024)

Can you please separate the sales for the Game Boy and the sales for the Game Boy Color? Those are two separate consoles, one released in the 80s, the other in the 90s, so why bundle them together when for example, the PlayStation 2 and the underdog Atari 5200 are separate? Sincerely, 2A02:A212:2701:6D00:A4F0:361E:6AEA:50D0 (talk) 09:06, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Gameboy color wikipedia article considers it "part of the same product line" and Nintendo's own website lists them together when showing the sales. (https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/hard_soft/index.html). If you are looking for the separate sale figures you can find an entry on the Gameboy color article. 2001:8003:EC4C:E700:415D:80AF:754E:B2D0 (talk) 10:55, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Game Boy Color article only considers the Game Boy Color to be "part of the same product line" as Game Boy in the same way that the Game Boy Advance is part of that product line. That's just the Game Boy brand.
If you read the article's info box, you will see that the Game Boy Color is shown to be the successor to the Game Boy & the predecessor to the Game Boy Advance. In other words, it's an independent iteration from either of them.
This isn't just word-of-mouth, though. That info comes from a Nintendo source too. Specifically, it was confirmed in a footnote of an Iwata Asks interview transcript. https://web.archive.org/web/20120329190132/http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/how-nintendo-3ds-made/1/0 TavianCLirette (talk) 07:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PlayStation 2 sales numbers confirmed to be 160m

In a recent podcast, Jim Ryan confirms in a recent official PlayStation podcast that the PlayStation 2 sold 160 million units. (https://soundcloud.com/playstation/official-playstation-podcast-episode-481-heres-to-you-jim 14:40) The previously reported on sales numbers were over 155m. The article should be updated to reflect this new information. Bro3256 (talk) 20:51, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's an hour long podcast. Care to give a timestamp and give a transcript of the relevant part? Sergecross73 msg me 20:53, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The timestamp is 14:40. Bro3256 (talk) 20:56, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jim Ryan says "160 million in the 2000s", i.e. before 2010, and yet Sony reports 155 million as of 2012. I don't know that this is a good enough statement. -- ferret (talk) 21:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The exact quote is "The 2000s, that would be uh I would say 160 million which is the number of PS2s that we sold. High watermark" and it's within the context of Jim Ryan going through the decades of PlayStation. It's clear that Jim does not mean 160 million PlayStation 2 consoles sold in the 2000s but rather that's the amount of consoles sold in the lifetime of the PlayStation 2. Bro3256 (talk) 21:56, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But it's only an oral statement from Jim Ryan, this cannot be count as an official update until there's further information from trustworthy sources or even Sony themselves. Best to just mention it in PS2 in my opinion. Sponge123 (talk) 00:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know, it sounds more like an off-the-cuff approximation of a rounded number than a specific figure... Sergecross73 msg me 00:11, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jim Ryan is the CEO of a public company, he's not allowed to just say false information about the sales of the best-selling console. The IGN article even says that the last update was 159 million (unofficially), so 160 million is believable. Sony as a company doesn't really have much of a reason to give an official statement on the PS2 sales because they moved on in 2012. This reminds me of how I added to Skyrim's Wikipedia page, that it sold over 60 million according to Todd Howard, but then it got changed because Bethesda didn't officially announce it, (even though it still is valid). 2A00:23C6:D584:5B01:EC76:F361:4066:ACF1 (talk) 01:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So you already understand that IGN relaying the personal statements of individuals making offhand comments on sales in longer interviews isn't something we treat as official. -- ferret (talk) 01:42, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't some random person, they are/were the CEO of PlayStation, if he says 160 million, then that should be taken as a fact. Otherwise you just leave it at over 155 million, but this is still an official sales update from someone who obviously knows PlayStation very well. 2A00:23C6:D584:5B01:7C3C:5760:5443:1C19 (talk) 04:45, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, you cannot take any oral statement about console sales as facts, not to mention Jim ryan only said it at the end of his role as Playstation CEO, in a podcast too (Not to mention chances are he was just rounding the PS2 total sales numbers). And last but not least, just wait and see if Sony makes an offical update on PS2 sales or not. Sponge123 (talk) 10:19, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unless there's some official financial statements or the like published on the PlayStation website, then Wikipedia isn't going to accept it as an official number for these charts. Jim Ryan being the CEO isn't good enough. Former SIE president Shawn Layden gave us an exact number for the PSP, but I discovered first-hand that that wasn't good enough, either. Even if God Almighty descended from heaven and told us how many units the PS2 sold, it wouldn't be accepted. This site has very exacting criteria for what counts as a valid citation. That's just how Wikipedia rolls, for better or for worse. ShadowOfTheVoid1980 (talk) 18:13, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, Layden's PSP figure got rejected because it was merely a tweet about how many were manufactured. It wasn't a sales figure. Sergecross73 msg me 18:21, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To add what has been already said, Jim Ryan actually makes some factual errors in that same podcast regarding Sony and PS. On the very next point after he mentioned this, he said the most memorable PS moment for him in the 2010s was the "birth" of the Uncharted series. Uncharted Drake's Deception came out in 2007, with the second game came out in 2009, so quite clearly an error. A human one? For sure. But an error nonetheless when there's a debate regarding the validity of his claims.
The point here it's not if it may well be around 160 million units sold - for all that we know, it can really be. But the standard of evidence in Wikipedia is higher than an aproximative ballpark in a podcast where more oral statements are factually wrong. That's why, for all this years, we have always relayed on official numbers and not IGN estimations - but, also, acknowledging that the 150 mill. number it's not completely set in stone, that's why the article has always had that footnote indicating that the number is probably higher. This news reinforces that note, but it's not nearly enough to set it as a valid number.
And no, being CEO not makes you unable to lie. You can't lie in investor meetings - but there's no problem with podcasts. 2.138.181.62 (talk) 12:10, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the 160 million PS2 sales figure is accepted then that also gives us a near final PS Vita number of 11.69 million based on the total PlayStation series consoles sales figure of 525.3 million as of July 22, 2018. Both figures could be updated.
Source: https://sonyinteractive.com/en/press-releases/sony-interactive-entertainment-introduces-playstation4-pro-500-million-limited-edition/ 2603:7000:8E00:4900:2C11:75A:DF82:2134 (talk) 13:35, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Where are you getting that Vita sales figure? I don't see that number in the source. Sergecross73 msg me 13:42, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's basic math, PS2 and Vita were the only two consoles we didn't have complete figures for. If PS2 is 160 million then Vita has to be 11.69 million. 2603:7000:8E00:4900:2C11:75A:DF82:2134 (talk) 13:59, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Taking an off-the-cuff sales figure from an interview and using it to do math with a completely unrelated press release is definite going to violate Wikipedia's WP:OR policy. Sergecross73 msg me 14:04, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is a deductive figure, but this article already has other estimates and similar deductive figures in place of specific official company sourced IR or PR numbers. This wouldn't be the first for Vita even.
I think the veracity of Jim Ryan's statement is debatable, I just believe that if it's accepted then that also establishes a new more concrete Vita figure. 2603:7000:8E00:4900:2C11:75A:DF82:2134 (talk) 14:14, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I hear you, I'm just of the mindset that the Jim Ryan quote isn't good enough, and this sort of math compounds the issues here. Sergecross73 msg me 14:27, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Statista has the PS2 listed with 158,7 mil units sold as of "End [of] February 2024". If the Offical Playstation Podcast can´t be trusted, in what is clearly a Sony PR release to get the press talking, then trust Statista. That site is a universally agreed upon tool for university publications. My own bachelor thesis relied on it and the German version of this very article sources it:
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/160549/umfrage/anzahl-der-weltweit-verkauften-spielkonsolen-nach-konsolentypen// Even the poor PS Vita managed to get a concrete number here. The Insomniac leak is also filled with all sorts of juicy sales data but all of it is stolen info. That hasn´t stopped Wikipedia from reporting on let´s say Wikileaks though. 2A00:1F:8701:4001:C054:2A8A:B23E:172D (talk) 16:22, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Statista is a deprecated source per WP:STATISTA. Timur9008 (talk) 18:26, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Statista has a website-wide consensus against its use. That's not going to work. Sergecross73 msg me 16:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To add on this, Statistia literally uses Wikipedia for its source half the time. In this case, they specifically cite VGChartz, which has been considered unreliable for sales figures and estimates for near forever. Statista making graphs from VGChartz's data doesn't make it any more reliable. -- ferret (talk) 18:10, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Noting for the record that I archived 5-6 duplicate sections requesting this same edit to reduce clutter and try to keep discussion centralized. -- ferret (talk) 16:02, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the guardian today, a bit more than "an approximatation", in that Jim claims the sales figure was celebrated internally "Ryan claims that 160m was celebrated as an internal sales milestone", so they had some of internal "hurrah we just hit 160m". that would suggest not approximate but they hit (and assumedly passed) that milestone Dimspace (talk) 16:49, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide the source, as we have to have it to confirm anything. Edit: Nevermind, found it. Ryan claims that 160m was celebrated as an internal sales milestone, but Sony never actually announced it.. Is this claim actually in the Podcast? What time stamp? -- ferret (talk) 17:28, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Addition of PocketStation to Best-selling consoles list

Is there any particular reason why the PocketStation is not included in the list? The source in its article says it sold nearly 5 million units.

I figure the likely reason is that most editors don't see it as a console (the old PSP image that was here for years claimed that the PSP was Sony's first handheld).

However, sources cited in the PocketStation article do refer to it this way: RPGFan, GamePro TavianCLirette (talk) 14:59, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because it's not really considered a console, probably. Its article currently describes it as a "is a memory card peripheral", which is consistent with my knowledge of it. It's more of an accessory. Closer to those old LCD game things, or a tomagotchi. Sergecross73 msg me 15:08, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I'm saying, but by who? It seems as if that's merely describing an aspect of the system. It doesn't help that the article's infobox & categories also label it a handheld console, as do mentions in other articles.
No source establishes that acting as a peripheral is mutually exclusive with being a standalone machine. See also: the VMU (no sales figure for that, though).
Furthermore, among old LCD game machines, the Game & Watch is included in this list, despite being a series of dedicated game-playing machines. TavianCLirette (talk) 15:30, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sources like this echo what I just said. Or this one from IGN. Memory card with tomagotchi-like features is a common, recurring theme. As this Kotaku feature outlines, it only featured the most bare bones of little mini games. Honestly, it take way more mental gymnastics to try to classify it as a console. Sergecross73 msg me 15:50, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, Game & Watch needs to be removed from the list. Yes we know how many units were sold, but they do not constitute a single console and lumping them all together doesn't change that. In fact, it makes it an invalid and misleading comparison. It's not like we include all those Tiger Electronics LCD handhelds lumped together, and they certainly sold enough units combined to be on the list if the Game & Watch line is here as one entry.
Those LCD handhelds also don't qualify because they are electronic games, but not video games, as the screens are only limited to the cutouts built into the LCDs, not actually creating video as the term is defined. They really don't belong here and I'm going to remove the Game & Watch entry. oknazevad (talk) 17:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I support that too, for the record. Sergecross73 msg me 17:41, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thirded. -- ferret (talk) 17:42, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Checked the talk archives. There was never consensus to add it. In fact, it was specifically rejected in times past. Why it creeped in I don't know. But if someone in good faith re-adds it, it should be removed again. oknazevad (talk) 17:48, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with that. The Game & Watch doesn't belong on the list because each unit was a single game, with the screen designed for that game. That sales figure would be more comparable to software sales of a console. Thanks, everybody!
Anyway, back to the topic - the PocketStation. Neither of the criteria we've used against those LCD machines applies to it. The PocketStation has various software that it can download from PlayStation discs, including many that are small games.
I'll add that said games being more rudimentary doesn't hold weight against them being games by definition.
Of course, the PocketStation has an LCD screen with proper square grid-based graphics, albeit just black & white. The same can be said of the Microvision, which is called a handheld game console in the article's lead. TavianCLirette (talk) 22:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Commonly being classified as an accessory and not commonly being called a console is more than enough reason to keep it off. Sergecross73 msg me 22:09, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's a fair argument. However, it can also be applied to home console add-ons, which are also on the list (Famicom Disk System, Sega CD, PC Engine CD-ROM).
Add-ons are effectively accessories for home consoles that let them play certain other games. What's more is, unlike the PocketStation, virtually no source considers add-ons to be their own consoles at all. If the PocketStation cannot be added, then those should definitely be removed. TavianCLirette (talk) 01:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not going to take any particular stance regarding the G&W. But did you all consider when analyzing, that the first game consoles in history were somewhat different than modern ones? It wasn’t until the second gen with the channel f the interchangeable cartridges appeared. WOWLWOWL 17:27, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 April 2024

Edit the PS2 total sales number to 160M from 155M. As per Playstation CEO Jim Ryan its at 160M

Source: Playstation Podcast https://blog.playstation.com/2024/03/29/official-playstation-podcast-episode-481-heres-to-you-jim/ Amolsdk (talk) 18:17, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done See discussion already present on this talk page. Sergecross73 msg me 18:29, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What happened to all the 100 million console bubbles and psp bubble?

Just curious as all of the consoles over 100 million (and the psp) had an image on the side with a small description so I am just curious as to what happened to them. 158.135.172.117 (talk) 18:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 100m console images were removed because they made a large gap between the text & the list in some browsers. Before that, I removed the PSP image because the PSP isn't really notable for any real achievement. Another one that was removed was for the Game Boy & Game Boy Color, but was because they are separate consoles, not notable individually. TavianCLirette (talk) 16:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Console weight?

“ Video game consoles usuallyweigh between 2 and 9 pounds (1–4 kg) on average, and their compact size allows them to be easily used in a variety of locations, making them portable.” This statement needs to be deleted, it doesn’t sound encyclopedic but more like a “knowhow” approximation trying to be a fact rather than a engineer data. It also has grammatical issues. To make it more professional it needs to at least address it more accurately. Give a true range from the lightest to the heaviest and specify that the bigger % lies within that in modern times.

PS3 weighs 5 kg PS5 weighs 9.9 lb Xbox one x weighs 9.8 lb

just a few examples not to mention the really old heavy hitters. WOWLWOWL 17:46, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it should be deleted outright. Weight has no bearing on best-selling console tracking. Sergecross73 msg me 17:49, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_best-selling_game_consoles&oldid=1221232055"