Talk:Tommy Tallarico

Trivia

• /vfd - archived discussion from Wikipedia:Votes for deletion

What's the deal with the Trivia section? Since when do encyclopedia articles have Trivia? Salvag 15:57, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

---

It's not an encyclopedia, it's a WIKIpedia.

"Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia" --Sketchee 01:50, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

• sigh* Trivia doesnt have to be about asking questions and getting answers. Trivia is also about random facts about someone or something. Sheesh.

WP:Trivia It isn't really Wikipedia's policy to be a repository for pointless factoids but they're not entirely verboten. Best to be avoided on non-trivial subjects like a CEO. 2601:540:8200:1895:1F11:1CEA:17AE:94CE (talk) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Why CleanUp

There is just to many personal stuff in here. This article needs a good cleanup --JAranda | yeah 15:11, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

The liberty has been taken to throw a mop at the article; more may be needed. 2601:540:8200:1895:1F11:1CEA:17AE:94CE (talk) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

There's quite a few links to primary sources (tallarico.com, videogameslive.com, audiogang.org and even Moby Games on which Tallarico himself edits). I'm not very knowledgeable of Wiki guidelines, but I believe these aren't desirable.Zeneater (talk) 21:22, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia prefers third party sourcing, but some first party is acceptable. See WP:PRIMARY. To give an example I give in the music world: Let's say the topic is Nickelback. A basic claim, like "Who is a band member?", could be answered by the band itself. But a claim like "Nickelback is the most critically acclaimed band in the world" could absolutely not be sourced by the band itself. Sergecross73 msg me 22:52, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 16:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Video Game Awards

For the 2007 VGA's on the Spike channel, Tommy played electric guitar with the orchestra..should this be included? I did not want to do it myself seeing as I am very new and don't know the name of the orchestra or anything like that. AgentHappyDay (talk) 19:28, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Every VGA show I've seen has had him play guitar with the VGA orchestra, I don't believe it's noteworthy.213.94.204.41 (talk) 15:23, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Guinness World Record

he got a record for involvement in the most games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.183.75 (talk) 16:15, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

The problem with caring about a Guinness World Record is that it's an ego surfing operation for charlatans. You can basically buy a record. Pure WP:Peacock. 2601:540:8200:1895:1F11:1CEA:17AE:94CE (talk) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

External links modified

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Age needs to be changed

Hey guys. Can someone please change the age on this page? Tommy is 53 now.

Cheers. OneUniqueWikiUser (talk) 16:43, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

WP:SELFPROMOTE?

As noted by one commentor here [1], the sole contribution of User:Ashesofthought as viewed here [2] is the creation of this article. It is possible this user is connected to the subject of the article. Sizeofint (talk) 12:59, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

WP: PROTECT?

Given the possibility of Wikipedia:Self-promotion and the matters starting to surround the character of the article, it may be worthwhile to consider invoking perhaps a Wikipedia:BLUELOCK in order to ensure that only trustworthy editors unbiased of anything regarding this or the Intellivision Amico; there has been shill behavior and trolling surrounding, in many articles offsite. 2601:540:8200:92A:BEB4:D82A:EC1C:EEE0 (talk) 14:28, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Awards, notable?

Are the awards listed on this page noteworthy? They seem self-aggrandizing, especially since many are self-nominated or self-awarded. Consider this a soft nomination for deleting that section of the article. 2601:540:8200:1895:1F11:1CEA:17AE:94CE (talk) 06:09, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

References

Dubious Claims

Tommy has a habit of making what could be considered spurious claims. This section aims to check those claims and refute the more outlandish ones.

In example, he claims here on AtariAge to have had some hand in launching Guitar Hero. This is an unrelated example claim that simply places his ability to tell the truth into question; a disestablishment of character.

On his first day, Tallarico caught the eye of an employee of the new video game company, Virgin Mastertronic, because he was wearing a TurboGrafx T-shirt.

Unless someone can produce a photo of Tommy working for Virgin-Mastertronic wearing this shirt, this seems a nebulous claim; one which doesn't serve any practical purpose either.

Tallarico advocated for more space on cartridges being devoted to audio, and became an early pioneer in bringing real sampled sounds of instruments into video games.

This claim is dramatically overstated. It is ignorant of an entire generation of computing (such as the Amiga), the history of digital sound in games in general, and people such as Karsten Obarski or Rob Hubbard..

Tallarico was the first composer to commercially release album compilations of video game music around the world.

This is a claim regarding semantics. There have been games which came with their music on a separate cassette, and albums released on vinyl (and other formats) well before Mr. Tallirico claims. It comes down to a question of what counts as a global release.

Point is, people have been producing albums of video game music for commercial releases long before Tallarico was even in the business of making music.

2601:540:8200:1895:1F11:1CEA:17AE:94CE (talk) 22:07, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

References

Source dispute resolution discussion

WP:V Let's all take a moment to remind ourselves that Wikipedia has no absolutes on the matter of reliably sourced content. It has come to head that there is a dispute over what people consider to be reliable sources here on the page of a WP:BLP. If complaints and/or scrutiny wishes to be kindly submitted here, it will be considered for editing, resourcing, or removal. Remember to sign your comments and explain in depth as to the issue with a citation or source. Just whinging on opinions won't account for anything. 2601:540:8200:89F:C576:2539:3EA0:A09B (talk) 17:41, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

First, the issue of defining mismanagement. The Amico was announced in 2018, and was slated to release on October 10th, 2020. As of this writing, in the first quarter of 2022, the nearest mark of progress for the Amico is pilot plastics.

Plans may indeed change in an unpredictable world. However: bankrupting Fig due to non-delivery, lying about employees, juvenile behavior on public forums, mass censure of the official subreddit, rebutting against critical articles with self-aggrandizing fluff pieces, blatantly overlooking stolen content in a preview video, ghosting potential third party developers, broadly redefining what a physical release is, these are just a small selection of what could be considered issues just in production alone. There are a few more worrying signs outside of the whole thing as well.

The president of Intellivision Entertainment is Tommy Tallarico. The argument thereby is: As the president of Intellivision Entertainment, the onus of sane management, and public image has entirely been his. With these citations in mind, it is hoped that the mismanagement of Intellivision has been established for the sake of argument. 2601:540:8200:89F:C576:2539:3EA0:A09B (talk) 19:32, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

First off, this is going to need to be radically reworked, as you can't be using all these Reddit and forums posts, especially in a WP:BLP. See WP:USERG. Secondly, there's original research issues all across it as well. It's not enough for you to say "Here, look at this forum post/thing I found online. I deem it controversial so it's controversial." You need reliable sources taking note of said things. Something like "IGN noted (X thing) about Tallarico." Take a look at WP:VG/S for a list of commonly usable or unusable sources. Sergecross73 msg me 19:52, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Alright, fair enough. Will these articles of which there are several provide sufficient evidence? Would this massive archive of inquiries made by the SEC be more concrete? How about this overview from GiantBomb? 2601:540:8200:89F:C576:2539:3EA0:A09B (talk) 22:18, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Kotaku and Ars Technica are reliable. CBR is currently labeled as "inconclusive", so I wouldn't hinge on that one too much. "Top Free" is likely unreliable. SEC filings wouldn't be able to source anything besides the fact that the SEC filings exist...you'd need further sourcing to extract any sort of meaning or importance from them or you'll be violating WP:OR again. Them by themselves doesn't really help you say much of anything you said in your paragraph above. Giant Bomb's wiki is not usable per WP:USERG. This is why your proposal pretty much needs a complete reworking. Sergecross73 msg me 22:30, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

References

BLP issues

I've protected the page, as there has been edit warring regarding some blatant WP:BLP violations. Please discuss and hash out issues here. Sergecross73 msg me 01:07, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Re-upped. Discuss on the talk page. Sergecross73 msg me 11:55, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

People attacking this page

It should be noted that there is a consorted effort to negatively damage this page which goes against Wikipedia rules. There is a group of people that openly plans and attacks this person and this Wiki page while bragging about it publicly on reddit.

Trying to characterize this person as a "criminal" on a plea bargin misdemeanor is outrageous. Wikipedia rules state: "Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person."

Per Wikipedia rules: "Unsourced and negative in tone, especially when they appear to have been created primarily to disparage the subject, should be deleted at once if there is no policy-compliant version to revert to; see § Summary deletion, creation prevention, and courtesy blanking, below. Non-administrators should tag them with {{db-attack}} or {{db-negublp}}. Creation of such pages, especially when repeated or in bad faith, is grounds for immediate blocking."

Per Wikipedia rules: "Wikipedia is not a forum provided for parties to off-wiki disputes to continue their hostilities. Experience has shown that misusing Wikipedia to perpetuate legal, political, social, literary, scholarly, or other disputes is harmful to the subjects of biographical articles, to other parties in the dispute, and to Wikipedia itself." 2600:1012:B1D6:4067:7D81:D308:F139:DEBE (talk) 12:29, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

I've protected the page again already. I've been keeping an eye on the page for the last couple months due to being alerted to some disputes like this. You are right that that material does not meet Wikipedia's WP:BLP standards. Sergecross73 msg me 12:35, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Stating that "Tallarico plead guilty to one count of failing to report the importation of more than $10,000 in cash, in violation of 12 U.S.C. § 1956, in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia on August 4, 2010 and was sentenced to a fine of $1,000, twelve months of unsupervised probation. In addition, he agreed to forfeit of $103,000 of cash he imported without making the required declaration." is stating facts in a neutral manner. Information both positive and negative on a living biographical subject should be allowed on Wikipedia regardless of the subject. 2601:195:101:37E0:A4D2:37AD:D828:4C46 (talk) 21:15, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Please read WP:BLPPRIMARY, which is a pretty succinct explanation for what's wrong here. Sergecross73 msg me 21:30, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

What about anything related to this?

https://venturebeat.com/2020/11/10/tommy-tallarico-settles-copyright-dispute-with-roblox-over-oof-sound — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6011:9600:52C0:ACCF:D575:9459:5117 (talk) 16:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

There's not a whole lot of substance to work with there, but I see no problem with a sentence or two that is accurate sourced to the content in that reference. Sergecross73 msg me 17:00, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Cousin of Steve Tyler? On whose word?

The citation linked doesn't really provide any factual idea that Steve Tyler is actually related to him.

He said that although he didn’t have much in the way of formal training, he learned the accordion due to his family’s Italian heritage. Still, he was exposed to music early, including trips to the Springfield Symphony. In addition, Tallarico growing up would watch one of his cousins, Steven Tallarico, play at shows in cities like Worcester with his band that people would come to know as Aerosmith.

To which literally proves nothing. The citation (54) points to an article of an interview with Tommy Tallarico which is as meaningless without actual confirmation from peers or his own family. If anyone wishes to ask Steve Tyler if Tommy is his cousin, consider it a challenge. 2601:540:8200:135:2B28:91AD:BE72:32B8 (talk) 10:50, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Is that a normal thing to ask for? That isn't particularly a standard used on...anything else. Sergecross73 msg me 11:01, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

No it is quite irregular, but Tallarico is an exceptional man. Posing on what was supposedly a Lamborghini, turns out it's a kit car. Searching for evidence of his alleged awards in magazine archives often turns up bupkis. (Cool Spot never won an award for sound/music.) He's often graceless, and with all the things he's lied about, it would give credence to doubt any claim he has made in his life, ever. (Such as appearing on MTV Cribs.) 2601:540:8200:135:2B28:91AD:BE72:32B8 (talk) 20:45, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Unless you have a source that directly questions or contradicts it, your other option would be to reword to your show propane attribution - that it's a claim made by him. Sergecross73 msg me 21:05, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Need for 3rd Party Sources

This article, like Tommy Tallarico's life, is littered with extreme statements made and supported only by him. If I have the time I'll start going through and sorting things out, but until then I've added a label pointing out that many of the claims in the article--like being homeless before landing his first big gig--are ultimately just things he said himself. The citations link to the articles he's being interviewed in, but because they're not ultimately making those claims (just including a transcript where he made them) I believe this falls under WP:INDEPENDENT.

I think that throwing out anything that doesn't have 3rd party confirmation would solve a lot of the issues and criticism surrounding this article. Elaboration Station (talk) 03:23, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

It could definitely use a good neutral, level headed review of its sourcing. I've watched over the article a bit due to being asked to help moderate some related issues elsewhere, and I don't know why, but this appears to be one of those articles that either gets editors trying to completely glorify him, or people who go out of their way to trash him and portray him in the worst light, and there's little in-between. It could use a good review by an experienced editor with no bias for or against him. Sergecross73 msg me 04:10, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Free warning: Hbomberguy uploaded a video on him.

It's an amazing two hour deconstruction of his entire career, and it even doesn't touch on all the little lies he's told though the years. But I imagine there's going to be a zerg rush of people eagarly looking foreward to try and use the video as a source instead of following WP:Original policy. 2601:540:8200:187:8062:862:DBF8:F3DB (talk) 00:29, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

By definition, nothing attributed/attributable to a Nebula/YouTube video can be WP:OR. Technically Harris's video is considered to be self-published, so it cannot be cited in this article, but the relevant policy is WP:BLPSPS. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:28, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Hopefully it at least spurs people on to double-check all the sources in this article. The video did cite proper sources which are fair game to use here. Antiaverage (talk) 01:55, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

This would not be a reliable/usable source by Wikipedia definitions. Unless reliable sources start covering/corroborating, it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Sergecross73 msg me 02:02, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

I would say it is a reliable source for the opinions of the notable personality in question, and even for general factual claims (Harris has a pretty good reputation for critical reading of sources, making him at worst a WP:TERTIARY source), at least by the standards of Wikipedia's pop culture articles (which generally rely nearly exclusively on the kind of dubious sources discussed at various points in the video). The problem with citing it directly in this article is that, as a self-published source, we are explicitly banned from citing it in a BLP. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:48, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm largely referring to that last bit - this being a BLP and the source being self-published WP:YOUTUBE source. That's not even close to acceptable. Sergecross73 msg me 13:49, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Controversy section

As stated above, Hbomberguy recently uploaded a video about this man, that's what led me here. Obviously, YouTube links aren't a reliable source, but the video does bring into question a lot of Tallarico's claims over the years. If other sources have also objected, I feel it'd be worth compiling them + other related controversies into a controversy section. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 17:53, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Please read WP:CSECTION. Sergecross73 msg me 18:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

As of right now, there are not enough sources discussing a "controversy" to justify such a section (which as is noted in the relevant policy, shouldn't be called "controversy" if a basis for it emerges, and we also need to keep WP:DUE in mind). However, if you decide to look at the article for yourself and find any questionable claims, unreliable or dubious sources, or phrasings that seem in breach of WP:NPOV, you're free to remove or reword them, or bring them here for discussion as appropriate. (I see you've already done some of that, so I guess you don't need me to tell you, but I may as well also note it for the benefit of anyone else who comes along.) silvia (inquire within) 18:46, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Listen, Serge. Lots of people, living or dead have controversies. Steve Jobs, Richard Stallman, Caligula, Bill Gates, so why should Tommy be the exception here? I commend your defense of the man, but the deck has become increasingly stacked against him, and maybe there's something a little head turning about a man trying to smuggle $100k across the border. Of course, the argument could be made that since there are few articles that are valid citations regarding him that he in fact, violates Notability policy and this whole article has no reason to exist; especially considering the previous state of it as WP:Puff.

As, if we're having to track musicians whose only notable contribution is proliferation, then the articles on Soyo Oka, Kenichi Tsuchiya, Yūko Takehara, Tsukasa Masuko and several others need to leave the Red Link Club. 2601:540:8200:187:8062:862:DBF8:F3DB (talk) 19:21, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Please note that not a single one of your own examples have a dedicated section called "controversies", so I'm not entirely sure where you're going with that. You can write about controversial things people do, you just need to do it right. That includes things like not bunching it up into one section, writing in formal encyclopedic tone, and using the types of sources Wikipedia policies and consensus have deemed as reliable/usable. As I've already noted multiple times in this talk page, I'm just an admin who largely watches over the page because of another semi-related conflict I was asked to help mediate. I've written very little of the current article. I just mediate because most editors, for whatever reason, are extremely positive, or extremely negative, about Tallarico. I'm here to remind people that Wikipedia is neither the place to build him like some sort of god, or an outlet for once's grievances on him. It's an encyclopedia, not a place to write a hit piece. Sergecross73 msg me 19:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Serge is correct, the HBomberguy video should only be added if it breaks more mainstream news. It may yet happen--the Roblox sound controversy has already generated some coverage, especially among 'gamer' publications. Until then, the job is just to revise the article in light of what can and cannot be properly sourced.Elaboration Station (talk) 20:19, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

As per the linked policy, it appears "Criticisms" would be a more preferable section title. I've added one (it is admittedly not rigorous nor well-sourced, but it's a start) and I have also added a section on his money smuggling incident. Anyone else's contributions to this would be greatly appreciated. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 01:49, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

What are you talking about? WP:CSECTION literally says to avoid "criticism" sections too. Sergecross73 msg me 02:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

In any event, the hbomberguy video is, ultimately a self-published source and is not a reliable source for a BLP (see WP:SELFPUB.) Any information in the article which cites that as a source is unusable. If other third-party sources report on it (by this I mean independent reporting, not just an article saying the video exists) then it can be included. elektrikSHOOS (talk) 03:42, 23 November 2022 (UTC)