Talk:Karolina Shiino

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Does she ever talk about Ukraine?

I have no problem if miss Carolina Shiino feels 100% Japanese... But I assume she still has nephews and nieces in Ukraine... and her grandparents still live there too I assume. Her profile on Miss Nippon she she likes to volunteer... But her family back in Ukraine is of course not helped very much by her volunteering in Japan; they need Japanese governmental assistance in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Does Shiino says anything about Ukraine? I could not find this information on her feelings about Ukraine in Ukrainian press and her instagram feed is a collection of non-saying photographs. I am not sure if it is worthy to mention in this Wikipedia article but if this Miss Nippon is completely ignoring the horrors that are happening the last 3 years in the country where she was born and where she still has relatives that speaks volumes about her character (meaning she only cares about herself). If she does have done good things for Ukraine that would be very good of course (but (as I said) I can not find an indication that she did). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:55, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay... I was wrong... In her Youtube videos Shiino does good work for Ukraine through informing Japan about Ukraine. For some reason her instagram feed gave me the idea that she did not (do anything for Ukraine) (although I did not log in to instagram). My apologies to Miss Nippon 2024. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:24, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Birth year

Many media sources are giving Carolina Shiino a birth year of 1998, but there are others sites that list a specific birth date of 08/24/1997 such as [1] and [2]. Furthermore, Japanese wikipedia has a page ja:カロリーナ_(モデル) in which her birth date is listed as 08/24/1997 and Shiino's own Instagram account [3] contains the numbers 0824. Also, the 08/24/1997 date would be consistent with the age 26 that's been cited in news reports covering her winning of the Miss Nippon title on 01/22/2024 (as opposed to, say, 08/24/1998, which would give an age of 25 even in Japan where kazoedoshi has been deprecated for a long time).—Myasuda (talk) 22:15, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

@Myasuda: If there are sources saying that she was born on August 24, 1997, for now I’d recommend having the article say that she was born on August 24, 1997 or sometime in 1998. We should reference the sources saying that she was born on August 24, 1997 & the sources saying that she was born in 1998 (I know there’s at least 1 reference about her being born in 1998). Blaylockjam10 (talk) 07:39, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

The following link is pretty definitive: [4]. There, on 08/29/2023, Karolina herself states that she turned 26 on 08/24. I'll update the article to give the 08/24/1997 birth date and add the third party source from www.bolnews.com.—Myasuda (talk) 02:53, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

What is her paternal background?

Is there any more information about her paternity and or be willing to reword the introduction to be more explicit about her background? Specifically, the wording that she moved to Japan when her mother married a Japanese man implies that her mother's husband is NOT her biological father, i,e., this is not a case of a biracial woman winning a beauty contest. This is the first time I have ever heard of her and she does not look biracial. Kencaesi (talk) 02:41, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Her biological father is Ukrainian. She doesn’t have any Japanese ancestry, which is why there’s a mixed reaction in Japan to Shiino winning the Miss Nippon pageant. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 07:45, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kencaesi - What does it mean to look "biracial"? Bollywood actress Frieda Pinto's American husband is apparently of half-Vietnamese and half-European descent (family name: Tran; he's posted pictures of his father on social media), yet looks fully European with blonde hair and blue eyes.[5]

Rina Fukushi is a Japanese model of half-Filipino descent; she looks fully Japanese to me, but Japanese culture says she's mixed-race (hafu) and fully Japanese citizens growing up said she looked "foreign" and "not Japanese".[6]

As for Carolina, both her parents are Ukrainian. Many sources provided[7][8][9] cover the backlash against her. She has raised debates on identity as she has no Japanese ancestry but won a Japanese beauty pageant. Regardless of her Ukrainian ethnicity, she is a Japanese citizen and identifies as such, but that doesn't change the controversy around her. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 10:19, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello Blaylockjam and Clear Looking Glass - thank you for you replies and the additional information corroborating her ancestry added to the article. In regards your question, in human populations that are distinguished by major physical attributes, combinations are made that sometimes give offspring a unique attributes that stands out to various degrees. As it applies to Ms. Shiino, an ignorant reader like myself might conclude she is a biracial to make sense of why a caucasian-looking woman is in a japanese beauty contest and sometimes ancestry comes in fractions smaller than 1/2 - I looked at her photos and it doesn't seen any Japanese ancestry at all. Yet she was raised by a Japanese "father"?

Is this the first time a non-Japanese but naturalized citizen won a beauty contest? Kencaesi (talk) 06:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

The 2nd sentence of the "2024 Miss Nippon Grand Prix" section says She is the first naturalised Japanese citizen to win the pageant. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 10:22, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Her name is Karolina

Karolina with a “K” not a “C” AdelineBrd (talk) 08:31, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I believe you are correct. In this very Wikipedia article, there is a link to "KARO's channel" on YouTube, spelled with a 'K', but that is weak evidence. But that page has links to her official Instagram page where she wrote her name as Karolina Shiino, and here official Twitter page where she wrote her name as KAROLINA. I believe that since these are her official pages, this must be her official/preferred spelling of her name, with a 'K' and not a 'C'.

Just for completeness sake: in Wikipedia there is a page for Miss Nippon, and that has a link to their official site, which leads to the page about her, but it is all in Japanese so I don't think that helps with English spelling. Subs99 (talk) 18:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

MORE EVIDENCE that her official name starts with a 'K' and not a 'C'. Here are 3 official modeling pages, where her name is either "Karolina", or "Shiino Karolina"...

https://f-w.co.jp/international/detail/?modelid=11626

https://f-w.co.jp/catalog/?modelId=11626&detailflg=1

https://talent.f-w.co.jp/talent/753/ Subs99 (talk) 18:42, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

It's probably more correct to spell her name w/a K. However, most (but not all) sources are spelling it w/a C. If people want to move the article, they can propose doing that. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 08:52, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

She was born in Ukraine and the name "Karolina" is a variant of "Caroline" used in Slavic countries, while "Carolina" is more widely used in Romance-speaking countries. AFAIK, the Romanization of both her Japanese and Ukrainian names also use the "K" and she uses the "K" in her social media.

Though this is English Wikipedia and English-language sources do use "C". I'd say a request to move should've been done, but the user already moved her page? Clear Looking Glass (talk) 21:47, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

EDIT to my links for her modeling pages: it looks like her modeling agency dumped her, so for completeness sake, here are the most recent archived versions of those links, showing her name spelled with a 'K'...

https://web.archive.org/web/20230523100830/https://f-w.co.jp/international/detail/?modelid=11626

https://web.archive.org/web/20240201081931/https://f-w.co.jp/catalog/?modelId=11626&detailflg=1

https://web.archive.org/web/20240201151852/https://talent.f-w.co.jp/talent/753/ Subs99 (talk) 03:36, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Reasons for controversy surrounding win

Hi @SLIMHANNYA - you claimed in your reasoning that debates surrounding Shiino's victory did not have anti-foreigner sentiment and were about racial/ethnic beauty standards and assertions of this were "original research".[10]

I will first state that since "race" was brought up in your reasoning, "race" is a social construct. I.E - According to this source, some East Asians, like the Han Chinese, identify as being "white" or "white-skinned" because of their light skin (going against common American/Western racial standards). White skin (the Chinese like to consider themselves white)[11] Secondly, since I suspect some future editors may try removing the sentence again, I've started this section. While sources on the controversy surrounding her win do discuss Shiino's Ukrainian origins and Eurocentric beauty ideals, they also discuss the debate on what it means to be "Japanese", the generally homogeneous culture of Japan and how her "foreignness" plays into that.

Shiino is a naturalized Japanese citizen who is Ukrainian ethnically; she has no Japanese ancestry at all. She isn't even a "hafu" like Ariana Miyamoto or Priyanka Yoshikawa were. The Telegraph source notes internet reactions criticizing how she isn't even part Japanese by descent[12]:

Her Miss Japan victory has sparked debate over “Japaneseness” and shifting demographics [...]

“Even though she is ‘Miss Japan’, where is the Japanese essence?” said one commentator on social media. “This person who was chosen as Miss Japan is not even a mix with Japanese but 100 per cent pure Ukrainian. Understand she is beautiful, but this is ‘Miss Japan’. Where is the Japaneseness?” said another.

Other sources discussing the controversy surrounding her European heritage[13]:

The decision to pick a winner with European heritage has raised questions about beauty standards and what it means to be Japanese.

Another source shows some online support for her win, but notes that some Japanese people aren't happy because of her origins:[14]

Many Japanese people, including people I know, aren’t happy with the choice of Miss Japan. If people keep assessing Japaneseness based on roots and see only those with pure Japanese blood as their own, instead of embracing multiculturalism, Japan will run out of Japanese people

Clear Looking Glass (talk) 22:22, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

As a Japanese, I have followed this debate closely. My observation of several social networking sites over a period of days revealed that the main point of discussion on social networking sites was the definition of "uniquely Japanese beauty," which was set as a requirement for the selection of Miss Japan. It was never an expression of simple dislike of foreigners. Even if some Japanese are not happy with her win, it is clearly misleading to use the term "anti-foreigner sentiment" to describe it. The actual source cited does not use the term "anti-foreigner sentiment". The gist of the source was that Japanese people were discussing what "Japaneseness" or "Japanese beauty" is. Since Caucasian women make up less than 1% of the Japanese population, it is natural that many people would question the selection of a Caucasian as the standard or representative of Japanese beauty. To call it "anti-foreigner sentiment" is an oversimplification of the facts and inappropriate. I think that term is your original research.--SLIMHANNYA (talk) 08:50, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

I support the removal of the 'anti-foreigner sentiment' statement. As noted above, it is not stated in the sources, its inference from the sources is unwarranted, and simply claiming that a view is 'expressed on social media' is close to meaningless without supplying evidence of its prevalence.—Myasuda (talk) 13:30, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

x3 agreed - I see no "racism" here, but yet another holdout from the Edo-period attitudes towards who isn't/is Japanese. You cannot turn this into a westernised race row.--SinoDevonian (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2024 (UTC)