Talk:Crozier

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On 18 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Crosier to Crozier. The result of the discussion was moved.

Quality of writing

Very poor. Lots of exact repetition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.68.94.86 (talk) 16:44, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

'The term derives from the Old English word crycc, meaning "crutch."'

Not really. It's related to crycc, which is also related to the modern word "cross" as well as "crutch" - hence, the medieval Crutched Friars (who wore crosses on their habits) and the oath "Christ on a crutch!", which originally referred to the crucifixion, not Jesus limping around on a modern crutch. Benami 19:46, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How do you pronouce "crosier"? No IPA please--I'm in the 99.9% demographic of mankind to whom IPA is meaningless. :) Just type it phonetically, please. 74.227.255.79 (talk) 05:42, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to American Heritage, it's KRO-zhur. ZH as in "vision", and the U is a schwa (like the A in "about"). Elmo iscariot (talk) 14:20, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The crosier is a lituus

Christianity just adopted it like fe. it adopted the topos of the good shepherd, the inborn son (also a title of Dionysos - literally meaning the twice borne one) or the title of the catholic pope as pontifex maximus (highest bridgebilder, a former title of roman emporers) etc. In catholic tradition and in latin language the crosier is called lituus. And the lituus originally refers to a shepherds crook, of course now in a new context. The spiritual dignitaries and officeholders beeing the shepherds (pastors) of their flock... err, fold. Its as simple as that. -- 77.116.246.13 (talk) 03:33, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Egyptian?

Any evidence that the crosier bears any historic relation to Egyptian scepters? The reference cited doesn't seem to be authoritative (or remotely related to either crosiers or Egyptian scepters), and the claim seems like a post hoc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.254.251.67 (talk) 16:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, very weird to see a claim that the christian crosier is originated from the Egyptian crosier... more it is from the Shepard's crosier. Besides, I doubt the Rod of Aaron was copied from egyptians either...75.73.114.111 (talk) 22:17, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lituus

I'm a bit surprised to see that there isn't a mention of the crosier being descended from the lituus in the lead. Or for that matter, such a brief mention. In ecclesiastic Latin, the proper term for it is "littus episcopi". It's not simply speculative; there's extensive documentation of it, as there is for the majority of vestments and liturgical implements (being co-opted, that is). Quinto Simmaco (talk) 13:45, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi Wikipedias, the content added by IP 196.201.199.155 is a possible vandal edit. Please verify (content revision). Thanks, SWP13 (talk) 17:23, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think so? Is the source untrustworthy, and have you cross-checked the article Lituus? It all looks above-board to me.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:30, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Broken Cross

Piers Compton dedicated a free e-book to the particular and non-Christian shape of the crosier of Pope Paul VI and all his successors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.56.59.207 (talk) 20:30, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 18 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Hilst [talk] 11:24, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Crosier → Crozier (currently a redirect) – While both spellings are in use for these items, every single WP article about a specific cros/zier uses the spelling "crozier" (e.g., Clonmacnoise Crozier, St. Columba’s Crozier). So too does Category:Croziers, its subcategory Category:Insular croziers, and the article Insular crozier. This article itself uses both terms at different points of the text. Also, ghits for "crozier" outnumber those for "crosier" by a factor of about 7 to 1. Grutness...wha? 10:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Christianity has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:53, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, OP's arguments are compelling. One does appear to be more commonly used than the other both on and off wiki. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:34, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. I suspect "crosier" fell from fashion after the 19th century. Johnbod (talk) 18:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom and as main author for Insular crozier, a page whose title I spent a fair bit of time agonizing over. "Crosier" is still used at times, but not much by specialists, and is a bit old fashioned. Ceoil (talk) 23:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.