Talk:David Petraeus/Archive 2

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1 Archive 2

1970s

I don't have the knowledge to actually answer this, but it seems that he would not have LASTLY taken company command in 1988 and yet had a PhD, a West Point Honors graduation, an aide-de-camp citation, a military assistanship to a 4-star general, and become an assistant executive officer...all before commanding a single company. and then become eventually a 4-star general himself. 98.228.57.116 (talk) 22:16, 15 March 2010 (UTC)whay912

Superbowl

Stupid question, but is it notable enough that he flipped the coin for the Superbowl? If so, would it go in the section about CENTCOM? There's nothing in that section except that he took over there. Atlantabravz (talk) 03:07, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

The question is, is this information encyclopedia worthy? I do not think it qualifies. -Signaleer (talk) 14:02, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I think it's notable to go in there somewhere.. and wherever it's put, this image can be put next to it.
Having this section in the article does not pass the WP:NOTE, please read section. -Signaleer (talk) 01:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Archiving

I've archived the user talk from this page. It was originally 227KB in size. -JE (Let's talk) (My contribs) 06:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Pronounciation of last name.

When names are unusual I would like to see the name spelled out phonetically. Sounding this name out I would say it Pe tray e us . . . is this correct? snodinn (talk) 18:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Decoration & Badges section needs change

Can a user with editorial powers take out the US CENTCOM Badge from his list of badges? Such a decoration does not exist. See AR 600-8-22 Awards and Decorations if further clarification is needed. I'm not 100% on it, but I THINK that badge is intended to represent his SSI-FWS (Shoulder sleeve insignia-former wartime service) (aka, combat patch) which is worn on the breast pocket of the new blue Class A's (which he is NOT wearing BTW)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.192.0.4 (talk) 22:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Can someone change the current structure of Petraeus's Badges to the structure adopted in Carwright's article. I would love to do it myself but i am not familiar with the topic. --192.8.222.82 (talk) 05:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

French Legion of Honor is a military decoration too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.151.203.236 (talk) 22:39, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Does anybody know if it is the 1st, 2nd or 3rd grade of the National Defence Cross of the Czech Republic that Petraeus recently got? Plus, does anybody know a source for the reception of the Tong-Il Medal? claudevsq (talk) 19:35, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

More importantly, does anyone know why Petraeus has a bronze star for valor when he's only been under enemy fire once, and apparently took cover? hardly above and beyond the call of duty. Did he single-handedly subdue a requisition form or something? - RayBarker (talk) 19:13, 9 January 2010 (UTC) Ray, acting like a stupid little angry bitter child idiot is against Wikilaw. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.155.39 (talk) 00:12, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Semiprotection review

  • 22:29, 13 September 2007 Jreferee protected David Petraeus ‎ (High rates of revision of, vandalism by, and/or undo of unregistered users. Page noted at http://www.wikirage.com [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed])

That was a couple of years ago now so I'd like to review this semiprotection to see if it's still required. As well as welcoming opinions from regular editors, I've contacted the protecting admin, Jreferee (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), although he seems to have informally retired from Wikipedia in 2007.

--TS 01:36, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Political affiliation

The article currently has Petraeus in the category Category:Republicans (United States). Is it a verifiable fact that he has, or has had, membership in the Republican Party? It was my understanding that senior military figures are not to involve themselves politically; I know this prohibits making endorsements though I don't know whether it prohibits their publishing their personal political affiliation.

I'm asking because of all the talk, including in United States presidential election, 2012, of Petraeus being the Republican presidential nominee. --Saforrest (talk) 05:23, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Test 1

Test 2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.51.36 (talk) 03:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree that this tag is unsourced and should be removed. Without a reliable source documenting his party affiliation, it is inappropriate for inclusion. Wellspring (talk) 16:17, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Severely unbalanced article

The article reads like a 'Who's Who' published by a military PR agency. I don't know much about Petraeus, but I didn't get to know much more either by getting to this article. The article appears to be a piece of unrestrained adoration, a long list rattling off all his awards, decoration and virtues. It appears one of his admirors or PR assistants has copied the section Additional recognition of note and put it into the intro section too. These are quotes from the article (in small style as to not overwhealm the humble reader):

  • distinguished cadet (top 5% of his class)
  • top graduate of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College
  • has garnered numerous accolades in recent years
  • 8th on its list of “Top 100 Global Thinkers.”
  • Sam M. Gibbons Lifetime Achievement Award, American Legion's Distinguished Service Medal, the Atlantic Council's Military Leadership Award, the Union League Club of Philadelphia's Abraham Lincoln Award, the National Father's Day Committee's Father of the Year Award, National Committee on American Foreign Policy's George F. Kennan Award, the National Defense Industrial Association's Eisenhower Award, the Office of Strategic Service's William Donovan Award, the No Greater Sacrifice Freedom Award, and the Congressional Medal of Honor Society's Distinguished Citizen Award
  • one of the "75 Best People in the World"
  • one of the world's top 100 public intellectuals
  • 2008 Eisenhower Award
  • 2008 Man of the Year
  • one of the 100 most influential leaders and revolutionaries of the year
  • second most influential American conservative
  • one of America's top leaders

There are also some random quotes from magazines, put in a context as if they were some kind of award:

  • "America's most respected soldier" (Der Spiegel)
  • "Leader of the Year: Right Man, Right Time" (GQ)

I see he has a lot of coloured metal pieces on his clothes, but is there really nothing else to tell about this man? With so many awards for being a great intellectual, he must have uttered some thoughts, analyses and ideas. If he has been mentioned as a possible POTUS candidate, where are his political opinions? Maybe the article could render some of these thoughts. As now, the only thoughts mentioned in the article are those of a military strategist and soldier. An encyclopedic article should mention who he is, what is his background, what are his work and contributions, and how is he perceived (including praise and critique). Awards and prizes should be mentioned, but are of little substance in themselves. --Sasper (talk) 01:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

The article points out that Petraeus re-wrote the U.S.' doctrine on counterinsurgency warfare,[1] which he then put into operation in Iraq ("the Surge"),[2] dramatically lowering casualties.[3] I think that there could be more emphasis on the significance of this. It is considered by many to be the most significant change in U.S. Military strategy since World War II. The articles and awards you list are essentially in recognition of his achievement, but, if you missed that, the article probably doesn't connect the dots adequately. Sunray (talk) 06:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Commander, U.S. Forces Afghanistan

Does anyone with military experience besides me find it odd that he is taking on additional duties and/or a demotion at this point in his career?Lowellt (talk) 18:45, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I believe he did this in the best interest of our country and the U.S. forces in Afghanistan. Neovu79 (talk) 01:14, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

article needs clarification

Involvement in Afghanistan

On June 23, 2010, Petraeus was announced to succeed General Stanley A. McChrystal as the Commander of U.S. Forces in Afghanistan. The change of command was prompted by McChrystal's comments about the administration during an interview with Rolling Stone magazine


The clarification should read

Involvement in Afghanistan On June 23, 2010, Petraeus was announced to succeed General Stanley A. McChrystal as the Commander of U.S. Forces in Afghanistan. The change of command was prompted by McChrystal's comments about the administration during an interview with Rolling Stone magazine. Petraeus was McChrystal's command superior so his new position is a demotion. Suggestions for Petraeus to retain the Central Command were rejected.

Source: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/06/defense_petraeus062310w/

White House: Petraeus will shed CENTCOM post

By John T. Bennett - Staff writer Wednesday Jun 23, 2010 17:20:00 EDT

Army Gen. David Petraeus will give up his post as Central Command chief to take over for ousted Afghanistan commander Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the White House said June 23. That’s essentially a demotion for Petraeus, who as CENTCOM commander oversaw McChrystal.

“He’ll give up CENTCOM,” White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joebiteme (talk • contribs) 22:16, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

BETRAY US

Why is there no reference to Time Magazine's controversial cover? If the right had done it to someone suspected of being leftist you can be sure it would be on Wikileftia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.155.39 (talk) 00:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

You would be welcome to add something on that. You will need to use reliable sources. Sunray (talk) 05:45, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
You answered your own question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.183.174 (talk) 14:02, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from JLeifer1, 24 June 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Please add the following book to the Further Reading section of this page: Robinson, Linda (2008). Tell Me How This Ends: General David Petraeus and the Search for a Way Out of Iraq. PublicAffairs. ISBN 978-1586487669.

JLeifer1 (talk) 12:59, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

 Done. See diff. Robert Skyhawk (T C B) 21:38, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Petraeus in West Point During Height of Vietnam War

There should be some discussion of the fact that Petraeus was safe in West Point, while training for a military career, at the very height of the Vietnam War, the biggest war of his career. Millions of draftees, such as myself, who did not want military careers got the sort of firsthand experience in Vietnam which the kids in West Point did not get.

But the above is not a political statement at all. It is an issue which is at the very heart of what a service academy is and should be. It is also an issue which goes to the core questions of the modern military career path. Are leaders made in places such as West Point or are they forged on battlefields?

There's something to be said for someone who volunteers for a service academy "at the very height" of a bloody war. You don't enter a service academy without the anticipation to lead troops in battle, especially one who commissioned as an infantry officer. Someone who volunteered during the Vietnam War, when he turned 18 (undoubtedly beginning the process much earlier, as getting into West Point isn't a spur of the moment decision) should be thought of more highly than someone who didn't volunteer and had to be drafted.
If you are making a criticism, then you are making it based a non-issue. Your idiotic question has no place in a Wikipedia article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.187.0.183 (talk) 04:04, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Diet?

I was reading that Petraeus is on a reduced Calorie diet and only has one meal a day?! Is this true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.159.111.98 (talk) 10:56, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

You're thinking of Stanley A. McChrystal. --71.110.90.242 (talk) 18:11, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Thankyou! That's the man I was thinking of... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.159.111.98 (talk) 07:29, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Conservative?

The Daily Telegraph says he's "second most influential American conservative", which means that either:

  • the article is seriously lacking, because I can't find any evidence at all that he's a conservative (and, being allegedly the 2nd most influential one in the USA, this would be kind of important)
  • The Daily Telegraph's statement is at best meaningless

GregorB (talk) 22:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Kimberlybrubeck, 4 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

==Additional recognition of note==

Petraeus has garnered numerous accolades in recent years. In 2010, he was named number 12 of 50 people who mattered in 2010 by the New Statesmen magazine,[1] was named a Top Global Thinker of 2010 by Foreign Policy mazine, received the American Enterprise Institute’s Irving Kristol Award, the Citadel Business School’s Leader of Principle Award, the AUSA Massachusetts Bay Area Chapter’s Person of the Year Award, HELP USA’s Award for Veterans, Princeton University’s James Madison Medal, the Lotos Club’s Award of Distinction and Medal of Merit, the Pilgrims of the United States’ Medallion for Service to the Nation, the Intrepid Sea, Air, and Space Museum's 2010 Intrepid Freedom Award, the Veterans of Foreign Wars Dwight D. Eisenhower Award, the American Political Science Association's Hubert H. Humphrey Award, and the USO Distinguished Service Award. Kimberlybrubeck (talk) 16:04, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 Not done Please indicate what you request be done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 23:16, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Have already updated this section in the articleSboylan (talk) 20:31, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

EDIT REQUEST from Dsherring (talk) 19:38, 28 March 2011 (UTC) dsherring, 26 March 2011

RE: the suggestion that Wikileaks influenced Petraeus's August 10, 2010 Tactical Directive for prevention of civilian casualties:

In the "David Petraeus" article, the second paragraph under the heading "Commander of US and ISAF forces in Afghanistan" starts with this statement: "On August 1, 2010, shortly after the disclosure of the Afghan war logs on Wikileaks, Petraeus issued his updated Tactical Directive for the prevention of civilian casualties..." This suggests a cause-and-effect link between the Wikileaks disclosures and Petraeus's Tactical Directive.

Let's consider that question carefully. The Wikileaks war logs, according to a Wikipedia article called "Afghan war documents leak," were released on 25 July 2010. Was this release of primary influence in Petraeus's decision to tweak Afghan war policy on civilian casualties?

Just to confirm my own memory of how much the issue of civilian casualties was discussed in the media that summer, I ran a "Google Advanced News Archive Search" for the search terms "civilian casualties" and "Afghanistan," excluding articles containing the term "Wikileaks." In addition, I limited the search to articles only in English between June 23, 2010 (the day Obama nominated Petraeus to head coalition forces in Afghanistan) and July 25, 2010 (the day before the Wikileaks were published). In that 33 day period Google returned 148 news articles which fit that narrowly defined set of search terms. That's almost four and a half articles per day, in English alone.

And not only was the media as a whole focused on the issue, it appears Petraeus had been himself. On July 22, 2010, three days before the Wikileaks were released, a Wall Street Journal article by Julian E. Barnes states: "according to some senior military officials" Petraeus was "conducting a review of the war" because he was concerned with "flaws" in how the "effort... has been implemented." One such flaw, "the officials said," included running the war "at the expense of...protecting civilians." ... "Petraeus is expected to...retool the strategy...to include a greater focus on...how to make the Afghan people feel safe..."

Of course, the updated Tactical Directive sought to put war policy more fully in harmony with "Petraeus," as insiders apparently call the U.S. military's "Counterinsurgency Field Manual" that Petraeus himself edited, published for us civilians as "Counterinsurgency Handbook" under a 2007 copyright date by Skyhorse, years before the Wikileaks were leaked.

It states repeatedly that killing civilians will fuel an insurgency. For example: "Security force abuses [by coalition and/or host nation forces] and the social upheaval caused by collateral damage from combat can be major escalating factors for insurgencies." ... "An operation that kills five insurgents is counterproductive if collateral damage leads to the recruitment of fifty more insurgents." ... "[Apply] measured levels of force and apply that force precisely so...it accomplishes the mission without causing unnecessary loss of life or suffering."

Taking all this into consideration, I strongly urge Wikipedia to remove the phrase "shortly after the disclosure of the Afghan war logs on Wikileaks" from the article titled "David Petraeus." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsherring (talk • contribs) 22:34, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Clarrification needed

Under the bold header "2000s" the following passage needs editing:

"On April 23, 2008, Secretary of Defense Gates announced that President Bush was nominating General Petraeus to command U.S. Central Command (USCENTCOM), headquartered in Tampa, Florida. The nomination required and received Senate confirmation.[42] He was confirmed by the Senate on June 30, 2010,[4] and took over command from temporary commander Lieutenant-General Sir Nick Parker on July 4, 2010.[5]" [bold emphasis added]

This passage makes it seems as if "Sir Nic Parker" was "temporary comander" of USCENTCOM, and that it took from April2008 to June 2010 for Gen. Petraeus to be confirmed as commander of CENTCOM.Clarification doesn't come until later in the article. I suggest the following edit:

"On April 23, 2008, Secretary of Defense Gates announced that President Bush was nominating General Petraeus to command U.S. Central Command (USCENTCOM), headquartered in Tampa, Florida. The nomination required and received Senate confirmation.[42] [In June of 2010 President Obama nominated him to replace General Stanley A. McChrystal as the Commander of U.S. Forces in Afghanistan. Gen. Petraeus] was confirmed by the Senate on June 30, 2010,[4] and took over command from temporary commander Lieutenant-General Sir Nick Parker on July 4, 2010.[5]"[bold text is proposed edit]

TonyAdragna (talk) 03:34, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Golden Cross of Merit of the Arma dei Carabinieri

Hello,

can anyone add the Golden Cross of Merit of the Arma dei Carabinieri to the "Foreign military decorations" section?

This is the badge:

http://daubau.it/enciclopedia/File:MeritoCC1.png

Sources:

http://www.grr.rai.it/dl/grr/notizie/ContentItem-8a398165-29fc-45fc-8897-299253331f2c.html http://www.difesa.it/Il_Ministro/Eventi/Pagine/PetraeusRiceveCroceOro.aspx http://www.carabinieri.it/Internet/Cittadino/Informazioni/Eventi/2011/Giugno/20110609_Petraeus_Premiazione.htm

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.54.61.120 (talk) 13:03, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Have Petraeus Retired Yet?

The end of the lede says he "intends to retire from the U.S. Army on August 31" but the begin says he is "a retired United States Army four-star general"? Which one is true?--115.74.79.65 (talk) 01:59, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

He is not yet retired, August 31st is a confirmed retirement date per the following: 1, 2, & 3.
I will make the change to fix the error. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:18, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I didn't find the error in question, perhaps it has been fixed prior to my posting. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:21, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

NPOV issues

First graf of "additional honors" section has some fantastic NPOV issues... I am reluctant to tackle them (with my gvt IP address), but they should be tackled. 132.3.29.68 (talk) 17:15, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. I removed the obvious puffery and a bunch of unsourced statements. More could (and should) probably be weeded out per WP:UNDUE. Thanks for the heads up! CharlieEchoTango (talk) 20:08, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Retirement section too. I would say that common sense would tell us that speeches given at a retirement ceremony themselves tend to be NPOV. I have summarized the comments versus the wholesale quoting of parts of the speech. EricSerge (talk) 23:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Clarification on "lone wolf"

The current article reads "On May 7, 2010, Petraeus announced that Times Square bombing suspect, Faisal Shahzad, is a "lone wolf" terrorist who did not work with others.[142] On May 10, 2010, Attorney General Eric Holder said that the evidence shows the Pakistani Taliban directed this plot.[143]". In Bob Woodward's "Obama's Wars" (Simon & Schuster 2010, pp 361-2), Woodward says "Petraeus had meant that he had not operated in the US with any assistance" - not that he had not been instructed and trained abroad, and that P's endeavour to clarify this issue was turned down by Denis McDonough: "McDonough had said to do nothing" (361 (chapter 31)).

88.91.84.136 (talk) 22:40, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Found a typo

Hi, I'm not registered with Wikipedia but I found a typo when perusing this article on Petraeus. It's under the "Retirement From Army" section: Petaeus retired from the U.S. Army on 31 August 2011. Petraeus' name is spelled wrong. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.122.200.39) (talk • contribs) 17:50, 2 December 2011‎ (UTC)

 Done Fixed, thanks for pointing that out! Having an account has its benefits, you should join up. :) The Interior (Talk) 17:56, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Review officer for Sandhurst

http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/training/17435.aspx

Phd8511 (talk) 12:29, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Found Error

I can not change this due to the editing lock. In the info box on awards it is listed that 101st Airborne Division Insignia would be worn as his combat service identification badge. This is false. That particular item is a Distinctive Unit Insignia. It is worn on the right chest above the pocket or unit awards. The patch with the eagle above that is his combat service identification badge. That is the patch for the 101st ABN(Air Assault). That would be worn on the right hand pocket of the dress blues or on the right shoulder of the dress greens to identify combat service with that unit.76.177.47.225 (talk) 23:52, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

 Done (But there is a distinction between the CSIB which is a metal emblem worn on the pocket vs. Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service "Combat Patch" for the right shoulder.) --S. Rich (talk) 02:06, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Regardless of whether it is metal or a patch, it is the same thing, the unit insignia or "patch". The reason they are now metal and called by another name is because of the switch to dress blues as the service uniform. If they were still utilizing the dress greens, it would be a patch not a metal emblem. The patch is still worn on the ACU's. What was being shown was the Distinctive Unit Insignia, a totally different thing. If I was in the 502d during combat, I would still wear the 101st ABN combat service identification badge. It's essentially semantics.76.177.47.225 (talk) 02:08, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:David Petraeus/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) 20:58, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

This article will need to have all bare URLs replaced.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:58, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
This article will need to have all dead links replaced.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:58, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
Fix the citation needed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:58, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
Fix WP:OVERLINKING: (The Washington Post, United States Ambassador to Iraq, USA Today, The New York Times, Ryan Crocker, etc.)--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:15, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
Move File:GEN Petraeus Aug 2011 Photo.jpg to commons and get all his images tagged with {{personality rights}}. I did not check the licensing of each ribbon, medal, award or rank.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:51, 18 May 2012 (UTC)


I would quickfail most articles in this state, but I want to read this article so I might as well comment on the rest.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:58, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Check external links in toolbox to the right.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:36, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
WP:LEAD
Personal life
Done Go Phightins! (talk) 00:20, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
Deleted whole sentence. Go Phightins! (talk) 00:20, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
I was talking about Petraeus was remembered as "always going for it in sports, academics, leadership, and even his social life."--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:52, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
Education and academia
1970s
1980s
  • You start using YYYY-YY format to describe time periods. If you are talking about a school year or a basketball season that seems natural. It seems like you should use prose to say something like 1983 to 1985 or use an – to say the 1983–85 time period. I prefer the former, but would accept the latter.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:46, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
1990s
  • Is the first sentence suppose to say he moved from one place to another place. It just says he moved from one place.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:31, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • "one of the more dramatic incidents". I am not a medical person so I don't know what to request, but there should be some indication of injury severity. I.e, Loss of x units of blood, x# broken ribs, x bullets penetrated him, x degree wound or some measure of wound severity should be stated, IMO.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:31, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
101st Airborne Division
  • "In 2003, Petraeus, then a Major General, saw combat for the first time..." What about "During his time with the 82nd, he deployed to Kuwait as part of Operation Desert Spring, the continuous rotation of combat forces through Kuwait" from before?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:31, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Did he have his 1st kill? or any kills?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:31, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • "the Governor of Nineveh Province" do you have his name?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:31, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • The final paragraph has so much consensus that it almost sounds POV.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:31, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Multi-National Security Transition Command – Iraq
Multi-National Force – Iraq (spring 2007)
Multi-National Force – Iraq (summer and fall 2007)
Multi-National Force – Iraq (spring 2008)
Change of command
U.S. Central Command (fall 2008 to summer 2010)
Commander of US and ISAF forces in Afghanistan
  • I think you owe the reader a sentence explaining "McChrystal's comments about the Obama administration".--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:41, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
  • "replacing the July 1, 2009 version" - were any significant changes noted by the critics and pundits?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:41, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
  • The promotions table seems malplaced to me (the non-military reader). I think it either belongs near the top of the biological chronology or at the bottom with the other rank and decorations tables.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:41, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
CIA Director
ANSWER: Yes. (Benghazi before, during, and after 9-11-2012.) Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 21:25, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Health problems
Additional recognition of note

This article is a very solid B-Class article. There is lots more to do. I am failing this at the current time. This is a free WP:PR for someone who really wants to make this a WP:GA.

he was not unanimously confirmed. he was confirmed without opposition.

A vote of 94-0 in the senate cannot be unanimous as the opinion of 6 senators is unknown. Is some members abstain from voting and some do not, that means the group is not of a whole opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.84.55 (talk) 06:55, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 October 2012

External links, replace broken WhoRunsGov link with

Also add

184.78.81.245 (talk) 14:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

 Done Sailsbystars (talk) 21:35, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Now Mr. Petraeus

Wikipedia MOS for biographies states that "Academic and professional titles (such as "Doctor" or "Professor") should not be used before (or after) the name in the initial sentence or in other uses of the person's name. Verifiable facts about how the person attained such titles should be included in the article text instead." "Professional titles" includes "General". Furthermore according to the NYT, Petraeus has dropped the title "General" in favor of "Mr." I therefore propose to delete it from the lede as a title. As an example, see Dwight D. Eisenhower. User:HopsonRoad 13:40, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Resignation

MSNBC is breaking that Petraeus has submitted his resignation as CIA chief due to an extra-marital affair. Should hit the web in a few minutes. - Dravecky (talk) 19:56, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Edits already in the top and in the CIA director position sections, but the box at the bottom listing his time of service (2011-present) (incumbent) needs to be updated.67.151.247.66 (talk) 20:36, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Yup, I expect an influx of readers to this article. Luckily, it's semi-protected. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 20:42, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 9 November 2012

|

Bronze star
Bronze star
[[Image:|60px|alt=]]

|NATO Medal for Yugoslavia, NTM-I, Afghanistan with 2 bronze service stars

should probably be

|

Bronze star
Bronze star

|NATO Medal for Yugoslavia, NTM-I, Afghanistan with 2 bronze service stars

Dconst (talk) 20:51, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Done. Thank you for helping to improve Wikipedia. —KuyaBriBriTalk 21:08, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit Request

There's no need to have the word 'Former' in the infobox now that the resignation date is shown. Leon Panetta's infobox doesn't have the word 'Former' in it either. --89.27.36.41 (talk) 01:37, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 04:20, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

The Story of Leaving the Hospital After 50 Push-Ups

Although I am deeply sad to see the career destruction of the bright, forward-thinking, assiduous general, I think what's more important is to talk about the truth of some of his stories. He has reportedly told people that after his pelvis-breaking airborne jump injury, he performed 50 push-ups to prove to the doctor that he's fine.

The Washington Post's article today tells the details that weren't told by Petraeus:

He frequently told the story of doing push-ups in his hospital room to persuade his doctor to let him leave, but he didn’t mention that occurred after he had been readmitted to the hospital because he did not follow orders to rest.
- "The storied career of David H. Petraeus" The Washington Post. Greg Jaffe and Julie Tate. 2012-11-09

I think the story in the 1990s section can be edited a little bit to complement this story, as he wasn't really lying but didn't tell details of the story.

-- chulk90/discuss/contributions 04:48, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 November 2012

Is the line " Petraeus stated "Clearly, she (Broadwell) connived her way into my pants to destroy the good name of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency.” something Petraeus actually said? Or simply vandalism to this site? At a minimum it needs a citation (if accurate).

96.248.16.54 (talk) 05:01, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Already done Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:07, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

False Quote Should Be Removed

The purported quote that "Clearly, she (Broadwell) connived her way into my pants to destroy the good name of the Central Intelligence Agency" is a false quote lifted from a satire article found here: http://www.chronicle.su/news/paula-broadwell-all-in/ (Note the author is "Colonel Muammar Al-Gaddafi", etc. etc.) and should be removed immediately from General Petraeus' bio. Somebody with edit privileges should remove the quote this ASAP given the attention the article is receiving regarding this situation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asi7777 (talk • contribs) 05:51, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

 Already done Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:07, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Broadwell

As far as I can tell, most sources are not officially reporting that she was the woman involved, only that she is being investigated. I think this should be removed until there is a clear consensus. Otherwise it could be construed as a WP:BLP violation. Tad Lincoln (talk) 06:15, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

 Already done Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:07, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Please, not "News agencies" - it is the FBI: "Multiple Federal Bureau of Investigation officials familiar with the investigation identified the woman as the author of a biography on Mr. Petraeus." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324073504578109252422213868.html?mod=WSJ_hp_us_mostpop_read — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.136.59.22 (talk) 17:11, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

General Betray Us Controversey

Why has all mention of the Move On ad known as "General Betray Us Controversy" been censored from the article? Especially when an entire article is devoted to the subject?12.144.158.9 (talk) 01:14, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

"former military officer"

Does anybody with actual military experience ever write this stuff on here?!?! He is not a "former" military officer. He IS a military officer... period. Until the day he dies. Unless he actively resigns his commission. Last I checked, Petraeus resigned from his post at CIA but he did NOT resign his commission . If you have never served in the United States Armed Forces, do us all a favor and do not post or comment on military matters on Wikipedia, because whoever wrote that obviously had no effing idea what he's talking about.

HINT: to be a "subject matter expert" you really should have some experience in the particular subject. Being really good at "Call of Duty" on your XBox does not count. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.241.154.190 (talk) 16:23, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

True. And especially true for a General officer. Surprised it made the article as there really can't be a reference for the use of "former".12.144.158.9 (talk) 01:16, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Patreus FIRED

well they said fired - "resigned" is a white lie.

i don't beleive it since when are military peoeple fired for sex if they were none would be working. oh for extra-marital? well that lewd and lecivious. if you know what that means it means he has more right to sue his employer for even mentioning it than right to be fired for it.

at any rate !! what a cock and bull story i don't beleive anything they say with their quadruple pay !! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.81.201 (talk) 10:16, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

His religion?

Anyone know if he practices any religion or if he was raised in one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.246.98.161 (talk) 20:13, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

The Associated Press news story yesterday (and on Yahoo! News) that described Broadwell's threatening letters sent to the family friend, said that the Petraeus family visited with friends for Christmas every year. That is totally inconclusive as to his own religious beliefs though. Based on his Dutch immigrant father, American librarian mother, and New England-raised National Merit Scholar wife, I don't think any conclusions can be inferred. Not that that is what we should be doing.
Also, this article is becoming a mess e.g. the chronology for his education seems uneven. Says he was an assistant professor somewhere while he was studying for his PhD at Princeton, from 1985 - 1987. Can't do both at the same time, be a professor in one part of the country while still studying for a PhD somewhere else. Not in 1985. Maybe we should slow down? There are a zillion references and notes, and the page is taking forever to load. --FeralOink (talk) 13:48, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Patreus Resignation

Patreus resigned just before his testimony in Congress was due about the Bengazi embassy attacks. Sen. Feinstein wants to know why congress was not informed about his risky affair. Newsmax also says the resignation was delayed, and the info about the investigation from the FBI so that Obama would not be embarrassed before election day. Open for edit so that others may exchange contributions about these new developments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.209.141.3 (talk) 06:25, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

That some people in Congress wanted to be advised earlier could be included but isn't especially notable when the FBI investigation ended up concluding that there wasn't a national security breach. The account of the subject's resignation immediately follows a paragraph about Benghazi, so readers can already see the proximity in timing. But to refuse to accept that the connection to Benghazi is more than just chronological coincidence requires proof; Wikipedia does not accept speculative conspiracy theories or gossip uncritically. On that note, you're already contributing here. Provide a link for the Newsmax story and any other supporting documentation and if it is sound journalism it could be used. Note, however, that while certain "there is more to this" stories might yet prove to have substance, such as the possibility that Hillary and/or Obama were looking for an excuse to fire Petraeus and this was it, a direct Benghazi link has been specifically ruled out by the Washington Post's reporting, which says "White House and intelligence officials said again [on November 10] that there was no connection between Petraeus’s resignation and the controversy surrounding the deaths of four Americans in Libya in September."--Brian Dell (talk) 19:10, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
I would strongly recommend a secondary source as corroboration for Newsmax, especially regarding anything significant. Some of their content is fine, some is um, less so. Caveat aside, I also read, in a variety of media stories, about the suggestive and convenient timing that 76.209.141.3 mentioned. I don't think that there is enough information available to confirm or discount it, not yet. --FeralOink (talk) 14:00, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

French reaction

Here is a possible source on how the French reacted:

WhisperToMe (talk) 16:07, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

DNI "nominal superior"

Does anybody know why DNI Clapper is called Petraeus' "nominal" superior in the section on the affair? According to law, the CIA director reports to the DNI. Does a source say the DNI is a nominal superior? Bob — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.169.169.89 (talk) 04:01, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

This Bloomberg News story is an example of several that use the "nominal superior" language. Keep in mind here is that the context is whether the FBI should squeal on the "employee" to the "boss". In this case, Petraeus is his own "boss" to a large degree, since you have to go outside the organization (the CIA) to find the boss of this boss. Were we to remove "nominal", readers might be led to incorrectly believe that Clapper had been telling Petraeus how to do his job on a regular basis.--Brian Dell (talk) 00:35, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Honorary Degrees

The Eckerd College entry seems to be false. He was a commencement speaker for the 2010 graduating class, he was not awarded any honorary degrees. Eckerd College is undergraduate only so I'm not sure it can even grant honorary doctorates. 216.146.190.121 (talk) 20:12, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Wounded in 1991

The article's source is talking of an M16 round. The author of "Increasing Small Arms Lethality in Afghanistan: Taking Back the Infantry Half-Kilometer", Major Thomas Ehrhart writes on page 33: "One notable incident occurred in 1991, when then Lieutenant Colonel David H. Petraeus was shot in the chest by an M855 round from an M249 squad automatic weapon." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.146.252.235 (talk) 16:32, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Both weapons fire the same 5.56×45mm NATO ammunition. I think different manufacturers give them different labels but they are essentially the same projectile.Myopia123 (talk) 14:41, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Planned addition. Title: Surreptitious recording of proposal that Petraeus run for President

In a recording obtained by reporter Bob Woodward of Kathleen T. McFarland's delivery of a message to David Petraeus in the field from Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes, Kathleen says that Ayers wants Petraeus to run for the Presidency with "[Rupert] bankrolling it. Roger is gonna run it. And the rest of us are going to be your in-house [staff]." [2]
The Guardian reporter Carl Bernstein wrote of news of the recording, "The Murdoch story – his corruption of essential democratic institutions on both sides of the Atlantic – is one of the most important and far-reaching political/cultural stories of the past 30 years, an ongoing tale without equal."[3]

References

  1. ^ "50 People Who Matter 2010". New Statesman. 2010-09-21.
  2. ^ http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/20/bernstein-murdoch-ailes-petreaus-presidency
  3. ^ http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/20/bernstein-murdoch-ailes-petreaus-presidency

Thoughts? Where should this go? What more or less should be covered? --Elvey (talk) 21:25, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

It seems to me that this is more appropriate for the Rupert Murdoch article than this one. Primogen (talk) 20:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
I was taken aback at the time, reading that Murdoch offered to fund the full presidential campaign. Maybe this was meant as a guarantee, like Murdoch calling on mates to co-fund. It is a perversion of democracy to sew it all up beforehand, or is it attempted election fraud? Is there something about 'undue influence on elections'? I was still a child when this happened but it has stuck in my mind like a rusty nail: "The Catholic clergy came out today in support of Chancellor Adenauer so it can be regarded as certain that the CDU/CSU party will win the elections". (Radio news item in Germany) 121.209.56.76 (talk) 05:57, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Lack of objectivity

The article contains ZERO on the simple fact that Petraeus was training to be a career soldier, but sat in the safety of West Point for 4 years as the biggest war of his lifetime was fought by draftees such as yours truly. How can this extremely important bit of context be utterly absent from the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.20.187 (talk) 22:52, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Counter to what many may think or believe, those comments were refuted, etc.

This whole section is very slanted in Patraeus's favor. Plus, what has the tiny image of his plane on the ground in Prague have to do with anything? This entire article needs to be cleansed of bias and irrelevance. --Michael K SmithTalk 14:49, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Also, this passage from 'Criticism after 2012 Scandal':

The citation for Petraeus's Bronze Star w/"V" device also notes his "leadership under fire", and the award of the Combat Action Badge reflects the same. However, no specific incidents of Petraeus's receiving fire are cited and the single incident described journalistically does not meet generally accepted definitions of "combat valor"

While I personally agree with this passage, I believe it is a very serious claim which should be backed up by a source.Myopia123 (talk) 14:44, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

awkward authornames field in David_Petraeus#Works_by_David_Petraeus

The "cite" template creates an authornames field, which is good for random citations where you have interspersed authors. It is not so good in this instance where you have one (primary) author named Petraeus. Other bib styles like Harvard notation use a long dash for repeated bib entries. In this case, for this subject, it is awkward repeatedly to note the author name, because it is understood that Petraeus is the author of 50+ works.

Does anyone know how to turn off the "author" field for the cite template?

66.185.213.219 (talk) 21:00, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Please remove this sentence

"Petraeus has repeatedly stated that he has no plans to run for elected political office." My reasons are these:

His "repeated" statements were all made before the criminal charges
There's no speculation whatsoever that he might run
These stale denials are no more valuable to the narrative of our article than if the general were to state he has no plans to eat pizza, buy new shoes or move to Wyoming

98.118.62.140 (talk) 13:27, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on David Petraeus. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 19:09, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 16 external links on David Petraeus. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 16:51, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 external links on David Petraeus. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:44, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 17 external links on David Petraeus. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:04, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:David_Petraeus/Archive_2&oldid=1190838349"