Talk:Dillian Whyte

Cluttered Article

Article is entirely cluttered with excessive text, Bartallen2 seems to think any newsworthy event is suitable for inclusion, although that is not the case per WP:NOTNEWS and also seems to believe any source that mentions him is worthy of being included in the article along with some text before the citation, although once again WP:NOTDIARY is not appropriate. This article contained nearly 70,000 characters (that's more than Larry Holmes article) on a guy who has achieved nothing in boxing. Now before I touched the article there was already a note at the top that stated "may not reflect the encyclopedic tone used on Wikipedia." as I suspect some promotion might be going on here. I removed text on the basis of WP policy, yet that has been contested for Bartallen2's own personal reason. LuckyLeftyy (talk) 00:07, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

I respect your inclusion; however I've only reverted the editing for the 'drug ban' and 'sparring' sections, due to the importance within the actual Wikipedia page and detail, for the most part, is paramount; as are most sections on Wikipedia relating to some form of drug-scandal (as I took inspiration from Dwain Chambers' Wikipedia entry), and there isn't exactly an "encyclopedic tone" merely clarification of details, and you suspect promotion? -.- Most of the alterations you did prior were without justification on a level of specificity. 70,000 characters which include kickboxing, mixed-martial arts and amateur boxing, mind you --Bartallen2 (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

No, my edits have been totally backed by WP policy. You understand how Wiki works, right? Edits involving an article should be in congruency with Wiki policy and rules, my removal of content was totally backed by Wiki policy. You reverted and decided to keep the content in the article based off your own reasons and not ones backed by guidelines or policies. Whyte has never accomplished anything in MMA or professional boxing yet. Never in the history of a boxing article have I ever seen a section containing 2000+ charters based off sparring sessions. That is the epitome of WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOTDIARY as you just decided to insert any source or event that mentions or includes Dillian Whyte in the article. However, I'll make a compromise with you, this dispute can come to an end if you let me remove the sparring session section and clean up other parts of the article (lead, amateur boxing section, professional career) and you can keep the drug ban section and boxing style section, how's that sound? LuckyLeftyy (talk) 00:39, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Deal, LuckyLeftyy :3 Even though I did remove all of the journalism-esque styles to both the 'professional career' and 'return to boxing' sections which I admit were a bit too cumbersome. But the lead, currently, only contains his ranking within the British Heavyweight scene; and the kickboxing section was something I was inspired with regard to the structure of the Vitali Klitschko and Alexander Povektin's highlight section, especially with regard to Whyte's title bouts. Many thanks Leftyy ^_^ But regarding his amateur boxing section, does the despite with regard to the ABA, have to go? --Bartallen2 (talk) 21:22, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

I cleaned up the lead by adding information about his upcoming fight with Joshua, removed the redundant flagcons in his infobox, and also removed the sparring session section and rumors of fights or fights that never came to fruition per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOTDIARY. Rest of the article remains the same. LuckyLeftyy (talk) 05:32, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect record

The fight against Balogh is listed as a win it was voided and should not be listed as a win. It should be listed in the results as a NC or Void. A win is wrong as the authorities have said he was cheating at the time due to PEDs in his system from a supplement. 91.110.126.37 (talk) 10:28, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Please list some sources which say the result was overturned. Not by UKAD, but BBBoC. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 16:52, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Move to UK maths doesn't add up.

It says he was born in April 1988 and that he moved to the UK in the 1990s at the age of 12. He would have been 12 between April 11, 2000 and April 10, 2001.

So either he didn't move when he was 12 or he moved at the start of the millennium, not in the 1990s.

The link says 1990s but doesn't say the age of 12. Should we take that out or is there another ref?

Ganpati23 (talk) 20:13, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

@Ganpati23: good spot. If you can find a reliable source that says he moved in 2000 at the age of 12, then replace the current source. If not, remove the "at 12 years of age." and stick with what is there. – ².O.^Boxing 23:17, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2020

51.7.169.242 (talk) 20:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Dilllian Whyte lost by KO and not TKO, please refer to https://combatmuseum.com/what-is-the-difference-between-a-ko-and-a-tko-in-boxing-mma/#:~:text=The%20difference%20is%20that%20a,defend%20themselves%20by%20the%20referee.

It states that 'The difference is that a KO (Knockout) occurs when the fighter is knocked unconscious, while a TKO (Technical Knockout) occurs when the fighter is still conscious but is deemed unable to intelligently defend themselves by the referee'

Please also refer to when Manny Pacquiao lost to Marquez in Dec 2012. Pacquiao was stopped under the same circumsates as Whyte and he lost by KO (as shown on his WIKI page)

The source you gave is flat out wrong. A KO, in a lot of cases, is ruled when a fighter fails to get to his feet before the referee reaches the count of ten. As was the case for Charles Martin vs. Anthony Joshua; Martin was conscious, even rose to his feet a fraction of a second before the count was completed but per the rules in effect for that fight, the result was KO.

BoxRec lists the result of Whyte vs. Povetkin as a TKO. Why? Per the BBBofC's rules and regulations (seen here), a fight is ruled a technical count out if the referee interrupts the count and calls off the fight. Said count had already been started by the timekeeper, hence why the official result announced by David Diamante at ringside was a "technical count out", also known as a technical knockout. It's a TKO. – ².O.^Boxing 21:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

WBC Diamond Belt missing in the Whyte VS Povetkin II column

Dillian Whyte also won the WBC Diamond Belt, alongside the WBC Interim Title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaizackjohnson (talk • contribs) 19:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Kaizackjohnson: WBC Diamond is an honorary title. We don't list those in the record table per MOS:BOXING/RECORDNOT. – ².O.^Boxing 20:30, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Result v. Povetkin (2nd fight)

Just to point out, firstly this was in Gibraltar so wasn't fought under the auspices of the BBBofC, and secondly, Diamante consistently makes up his own outcomes (e.g. RSF, RSC) which often don't tally with the official outcomes. --Michig (talk) 07:33, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Dillian Whyte the first non-white person on Sterling Currency

Please include this section on Dillians article. It is a great achievement, especially for the BAME community in Britain.

In commemoration of his fight with Povetkin in their rematch, the Gibraltan government issued a £2 coin (usable in the UK, as is the case with all countries who use UK Sterling) with Dillian Whytes face on it.

Officially, Dillian Whyte has now become the first ever non-white or ethnic minority person to ever feature on UK Sterling currency. No other non-white or ethnic minority person has ever featured on UK Sterling.

I edited his page, but someone removed this due to it not being sourced. Here are some sources:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/56429446

https://paymentexpert.com/2021/03/17/dillian-whyte-and-alexander-povetkin-become-first-boxers-to-feature-on-sterling-currency/

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/dillian-whyte-honoured-to-have-gibraltar-coin-commissioned-to-mark-heavyweight-rematch-with-alexander-povetkin/

https://see.news/dillian-whyte-alexander-povetkin-feature-on-gibraltar-2-coin/

https://www.dazn.com/en-GB/news/boxing/gibraltar-issues-special-coin-to-honour-huge-dillian-whyte-alexander-povetkin-rematch/17fw75qkg45g31hd5ox70dzdhu

https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/851113/hearn-gibraltar-government-coin-povetkin-whyte-rematch/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaizackjohnson (talk • contribs) 16:44, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Is it /ˈdɪlɪən/ (DILI-ən) or /ˈdɪlən/ (DIL-ən)? I keep hearing both, but how does the man himself say it? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:08, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Povetkin KO

Lot of edit warring over this. The problem is interpretation of sources, and when to be selective. By most definitions, and mainstream media, that's a straight-up KO. The ref waved it off, Whyte was out cold in the most literal sense, no count. I don't know if it's David Diamante reading his cards wrong, or someone from the BBBofC (or their Gibraltarian equivalent) was drunk that night, but what on Earth is a "technical count-out"? It was identical to other contemporary one-punch KOs like Álvarez–Khan or Márquez–Pacquiao IV, none of which anyone would ever dream of listing as a TKO.

BoxRec, of course, loves to muddy the waters. They correctly list Povetkin–Whyte as a KO, but inexplicably list Froch–Groves II as a TKO. Another weird one is them listing Stevenson–Dawson as a KO, when Dawson was stopped on his feet. I don't have anything to suggest in terms of resolving this, but I can totally see why every man and their dog is changing it to a KO, when it literally was. Unfortunately, Diamante proves to be the definitive source with his bizarre call.. and sources are everything on here. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:18, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

It's not actually the dreadlock master making things up. BBBofC have their own versions of results, one of which is TCO (shown in section 3.33.3).

We shouldn't rely on BoxRec for type of stoppage as they make up their own rules on how to list them (eg. if a fight is stopped within the first 15 seconds of round 4 (TKO/KO) it's recorded as a 3rd-round RTD), and as you pointed out they're not always consistent (they've changed it from KO to TKO and back again multiple times). I don't think media sources are reliable in this case either as they routinely list TKOs as KOs. Considering TCO was the official announcement and the result is verified by BBBofC regulations, I think the best option is to stick with that.

On a very related note, this is a similar situation we have with California's 3-knockdowns-in-the-same-round rule; we record them as KOs even when the guy is wide awake. I disagree with the method but agree we should list their official result. – ².O.^Boxing 09:49, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Good enough for me. I'll continue to revert the TKO→KO changes accordingly. And yes, CSAC are weird with wanting to list obvious TKOs (ref stopping a guy on his feet) as KOs. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:55, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Sandor Balogh/NC

Since we're now including varying results for Whyte and David Price's NC fights—that is, favouring the NC and relegating the win/loss to a lesser accepted result—shouldn't we do the same for Tyson Fury and the Christian Hammer fight? It's the exact same circumstances. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 12:28, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

@Mac Dreamstate: I know I endorsed the edit in question--because contrary to what @Glasgowedior: said in the summary of their recent revert, the content is indeed backed by reliable sources[1][2]--but would the best option be what we did on that other article (can't remember the name); list his record as RS do, show as a W in the table but add a note to clarify? Same with Fury and Price. – ².O.^Boxing 12:01, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Courtesy ping for Dannycav100, who made the original edit. – ².O.^Boxing 12:05, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Is the RS you're talking about BoxRec? It's usually the best we've got, but it's not an ironclad source. I think the result should be shown as a NC, based on the BBC article.--Jahalive (talk) 17:17, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Not BoxRec. Sources that report on upcoming fights or results always (as far as I've seen) ignore the NC.[3][4][5][6] It's also omitted from the MC's introduction on fight night. – ².O.^Boxing 23:52, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

I was thinking of a source that included a result for the Balogh fight. I doubt those articles did anything more than copy the totals from BoxRec or here.--Jahalive (talk) 17:20, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree we can mostly blame BoxRec with their imaginary "official" status. Problem is, RS buy in to their delusions of grandeur, and we follow what the RS say. I'd be very, very surprised if there's recent RS that include the NC in his record. – ².O.^Boxing 11:30, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

This article https://www.boxingdaily.com/boxing-news/dillian-whyte-blasts-con-man-deontay-wilder-he-is-the-biggest-fraud-in-all-of-sport/ from Nov. 2022 includes the no contest in his record. Sources that are either outdated or only provide the record in passing and do not address the Balogh fight can be disregarded.--Jahalive (talk) 17:46, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

And another one https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/boxing/news/dillian-whyte-pro-record-titles-KO-wins/hwywlumhguvdwebzxhi4rhmh --Jahalive (talk) 19:21, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

If you watch any of his fights you will have all the source you need they never read out a no contest in his record at the start of the fights which always is approved by the governing bodies and sanctioned under the relevant boards Glasgowedior (talk) 12:03, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't believe that what is read before fights is approved by governing bodies and relevant boards.--Jahalive (talk) 19:21, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I think it would be reasonable to presume those two sources got their info from here; this article was one of the very few places--certainly the most widely used--that included a NC at the time they were published. We can't contradict the overwhelming majority of sources that don't list it, but we can make a note of what has been reported in the RS that have addressed it. – ².O.^Boxing 21:12, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I think it's reasonable to presume that virtually all boxing writers source boxing records from here or Boxrec. That's why we should disregard the overwhelming majority of sources that list his record because they don't meet the requirements of WP:RS.--Jahalive (talk) 01:01, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

If a sizable amount of writers were using Wikipedia as a source then we'd be seeing a sizable amount of sources that include the NC (I'm sure we had it listed for years). Regardless, unless there's an issue with WP:CIRCULAR, there's no conflict with relevant policies. – ².O.^Boxing 08:35, 28 May 2023 (UTC)