Talk:Edge of Seventeen

Inspiration

Discrepancy--the intro paragraph cites the death of her Uncle Jonathan, but the Inspiration paragraph talks about the death of her Uncle Bill. Quartney (talk) 02:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It appears to me that two edits from the same user ([1]) in July 2010 changed the name to Bill. "Uncle Bill" appears in a lot of Google search results, so it's not clear to me whether these were malicious edits and these sites have picked up "Uncle Bill" from Wikipedia or whether this editor got it from some other source. One way or another, we have two sources cited ([2] and [3]) in the article that mention "Uncle Jon[athan]" (or "John", but that could just be a mistake when going from an oral interview to written language), so I'm changing it back to Jonathan. Mattst88 (talk) 20:40, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lyrics

The analysis of the lyrics is just speculation, and that should be noted. The song has multiple meanings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.113.188.66 (talk) 01:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Too true. I'll work on some edits to that section soon. - carolyn⁸¹ (user • talk) 18:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chord/song structure?

I have written a bit about the chord structure of the song, and a little about the song structure, but it is not my area of expertise. I would greatly appreciate some help correcting that part. I just looked at guitar tabs online to write it (and the one that I kept finding appeared to be wrong about the chord progression in the bridge; the guitar only plays two different chords during that part). - Carolyn81 04:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Class assessment

Since this article isn't really a stub anymore, I removed the Stubclass template and changed the WikiProject Songs template to say Start class (the Stubclass template said to do this if I disagreed with the class assessment, which I did). I also removed the infobox request template, since the article has an infobox now. - Carolyn81 04:17, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

I'm wondering why the parenthetical portion of the article title is there - "(Just Like the White Winged Dove)." I find no other reference to the song title having that included. Not in info boxes, track listings, album covers, other online sources such as Allmusic, and so on. Is there a reference for the parenthetical portion that I'm missing? Because it seems to me that the title of the song is "Edge of Seventeen" and noting else, and therefore the article title should match. Concur? Medleystudios72 (talk) 14:05, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The parenthetical appeared on the US single release and (therefore) on the Billboard charts. See these images. — AjaxSmack 04:18, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

versions

Nicks has made many versions of this song, on record and on video, some of them much longer than the original and with extra lyrics. It seems to me that this article would be strengthened if it had a section listing such things as the Red Rocks vid and the Soundstage session record and vid. Alf Heben (talk) 00:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move song article to Edge of Seventeen (song) and leave dab as it is Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 06:26, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

– Allmusic, iTunes, and Nicks' official website all refer to this song as simply "Edge of Seventeen", and make no mention of the parenthetical subtitle. Also, "Edge of Seventeen" pulls in 3x more results that "Edge of Seventeen (Just Like the White Winged Dove)", and the song receives over three times the page views that the movie does. WikiRedactor (talk) 20:35, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Edge of Seventeen (song) - if this is going to become primary topic then Talk:Edge of Seventeen (film) needs to be notified. Sorry, I can't see from Google Books that the Stevie Nicks single is massively more primary. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:35, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose proposal. The song is popular (last 90 days), but the movie won some awards and praise (last 90 days). Also, both are equally significant in their own ways. Perhaps move to Edge of Seventeen (song) instead per too many reliable non-primary sources? --George Ho (talk) 04:43, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The parenthetical was used only for the single. That is to say, the name was official only until the song was put on the [http://www.amazon.com/Bella-Donna-Stevie-Nicks/dp/B000002IB9/ref= Bella Donna] album. So everyone has been calling it "Edge of Seventeen" for a long time now. 37.9.56.220 (talk) 12:56, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- @37.9.56.220: The proposal is determining the primary topic. You mean title must be either "Edge of Seventeen (song)" or "Edge of Seventeen"? George Ho (talk) 18:39, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - I support the proposal as made. 37.9.56.152 (talk) 23:59, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose proposal. Would support Edge of Seventeen (song) per Edge of Seventeen to disambiguate from the film. --Richhoncho (talk) 05:10, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 10 December 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed. By my count, seven editors support the move (Chasewc91, SNUGGUMS, AjaxSmack, Calidum, Dohn joe, Bretonbanquet, Cuchullain), with AjaxSmack also proposing to delete the dab altogether and resolve ambiguity in a hatnote. Three editors are clearly in opposition (George Ho, In ictu oculi, Richhoncho), with BarrelProof also raising some concerns, although not in outright opposition. Per WP:TWODABS, it is understood that a reader coming to a disambiguation page might be no more inconvenienced than a reader coming to a page where the alternative topic for which they were searching can be found in a hatnote. In this case, the primary topic by pageviews and apparent historical importance is under 9,000 bytes, and should not present an excessive loading time for the typical reader searching for any of these pop-culture topics. A hatnote can therefore accommodate the other significant meaning (or meanings) of the term. bd2412 T 05:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

– The Stevie Nicks song is clearly the primary topic. It's surprising that it even has to be considered that such a well-known song would be primary over a little-known flop movie. Pageview stats don't lie - the song article received nearly 3 times as many views in the last 90 days as the film article. –Chase (talk / contribs) 19:41, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: A factor of three is not a huge predominance, and the film won some awards and praise (as noted above) – it shouldn't be simply dismissed as a "flop". Was the film named after the song? Also, aside from those two topics, there is an award-winning short story of the same title (although Wikipedia doesn't say much about it), and the same suggestion was considered and not agreed pretty recently. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:29, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support unquestionably the most well-known term by this name. Snuggums (talk / edits) 00:23, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest moving the song and deleting the dab page per WP:TWODABS. A hatnote could read as follows:

This page is about the song. For the 1998 film, see Edge of Seventeen (film). "The Edge of Seventeen", a short story by Alexandra Sokoloff, was the recipient of a 2009 International Thriller Writers Award.

— AjaxSmack 01:13, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The song and the film of the same name are significant. The song may have been first, but the film is also important to certain audiences, like me. Too bad readers want to read more about the song than the film. Reading the song article, there has been no awards for the song yet, including the Grammys. Back to the stats, the numbers of the song article aren't that high enough to favour the song as the primary topic of the same name. --George Ho (talk) 01:26, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - and looks like a THREEDABS situation The Edge of Seventeen (story) should redirect to Alexandra Sokoloff if it was the recipient of a 2009 International Thriller Writers Award. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:13, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I get 15,475 views for the song over the last 90 days, 5,227 for the film. (and zero for "Edge of Seventeen (story).") Confabulationist (talk) 03:52, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Kauffner In ictu oculi (talk) 14:31, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He is not proven yet as a sockpuppet; unstruck vote. --George Ho (talk) 20:11, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The investigation concluded in blocking the account as a likely sock, so I struck it again. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:58, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The song is viewed three times as much as the film is. Clearly satisfies both criteria of WP:PTOPIC. -- Calidum 05:17, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support per both main criteria of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Dohn joe (talk) 15:10, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. It does actually matter what people are looking for. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:44, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:Bretonbanquet how many of those looking for the song are going to be unaware that it is a song? In ictu oculi (talk) 06:19, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if they're looking for the song, none of them will be unaware that it's a song; that's self-evident. I'm not sure what you're driving at. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:36, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Is this song actually notable per WP? It is, but is so notable that we recognize it without the words Stevie Nicks attached to it? No, of course not. Edge of Seventeen is recognizable to Nicks' fans, but the rest of WP? The rest of the world? No, of course not, so why are we wasting time and effort on primary topic, when it will all change again, tomorrow, maybe next year, but it will change. In the meantime retaining the words (song) hinders nobody. --Richhoncho (talk) 22:35, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Way to go. Completely disregarding any of the evidence presented above. Truthiness rules! -- Calidum 14:40, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is a pattern. See Talk:Let_Me_Entertain_You_(Robbie_Williams_song)#Requested_moves. Dohn joe (talk) 15:10, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Which is now closed as no consensus to move from Let Me Entertain You (Robbie Williams song). Part of the pattern to avoid unnecessary moves? --Richhoncho (talk) 12:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – @George Ho: may I ask why you invited Richhoncho, who opposed the previous RM, to this discussion, but not WikiRedactor, who opened that RM? –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:28, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WikiRedactor is semi-inactive at the moment. I checked his contributions log. --George Ho (talk) 21:30, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

His last edit was on December 11, after this RM was opened. –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:36, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support, the evidence shows this to be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC in a WP:TWODABS situation. A hat note will guide readers as effectively as a dab page.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:30, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Major source

This in-depth BBC piece has a lot about the song Edge of Seventeen: An anthem that stuns each new generation. I've not used anything from it yet. Onanoff (talk) 03:43, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]