Talk:Elbit Systems

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"Divestment" section[edit]

I've removed the "Divesment" section per WP:NOTNEWS, as these types of investment companies regularly boycott defense firms for varios reasons. It's just news to report they have boycotted Elbit, and really has nothong to do with the copmay itself. Also, Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions is a Palestinian organization that boycotts many Isreali companies, so it's not nteworthy that they boycott this one either. - BilCat (talk) 09:44, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Firstly this has nothing to do with Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, where are you getting that from ? Secondly, we don't get to decide what is noteworthy. The sources do that for us. The divestment by the Norwegian Government (not an investment company) resulted in the director general of the Foreign Ministry summoning the Norwegian ambassador in protest. It received a lot of coverage in the Israeli press and elsewhere. Danske Bank, is the largest financial group in Denmark. Then there's the divestment by Sweden's largest pension funds which hasn't been included yet covered in this JPost report. This material is notable, pertinent, reliably sourced, specifically addresses the subject of this article and its inclusion is entirely policy compliant. These divestments from Elbit have received significant, in-depth coverage in diverse reliable sources both within Israel and elsewhere over an extended period of time. The divestments have resulted in statements and actions by the Israeli government. WP:NOTNEWS won't cut it I'm afraid. What is lacking from that section is information about how both Elbit and the Israeli government have responded. That is required for NPOV compliance in my view. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:17, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Also regarding "and really has nothong to do with the company itself", that is plainly wrong. It has everything to do with the company itself. The sources themselves make this clear and specifically address Elbit. The divestments result from the specific activities, that in the eyes of the investors, violate international standards and therefore fail their investment criteria, such as involvement with Israeli settlements and the West Bank barrier. The reasons Elbit doesn't meet the investment criteria are specific to Elbit, they are a direct result of the companies activities. Regarding "it's not noteworthy that they boycott this one either", as I said, this has nothing to do with Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions so it is not "they" that are doing anything. These are governments and financial institutions making decisions based on their own compliance rules. You appear to have misunderstood both the nature of this material and how it is directly related the subject of this article. Consequently neither of your reasons for reverting are valid. I am restoring the material. Please address the points I have raised if you have further concerns. Sean.hoyland - talk 11:03, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
The mention of BDS, ehich you've also restored and edited, is in the section, hence I've mentioned it as part of why I removed the section. So of course it's relevant here, as BDS is not a government or financial institution. Frankly I'm flumoxed on that one. Second, the bank investors say the same things about every company the boycott, which is why this is not unique to Elbit itself. That's why this falls under NOTNEWS. Investors are free to boycott whom they wish, but WP should not be advocating for their issues, or covering it outside of their own articles.
You appear to have misunderstood both the nature of this material and how it is directly related the subject of this article. Consequently none of your reasons for restoration are valid. I am removing the material once I've passed the 24h period for reverting. Please address the points I have raised if you have further concerns. (Sounds awfully snotty when reapted back to you, doesn't it? Well, it sounded that way the first time too!)
Finally, do not confuse Dyslexia with Ignorance, and repeating a person's errors it is rude, no matter what the reasons they made them are. - BilCat (talk) 16:31, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm not really snotty. Sorry if I came across that way and I didn't want to fix your typos. It seems rude to me to do that. I don't care about typos. Not important. This has nothing to do with BDS campaign. There is nothing about BDS in the sources discussing these divestments. These divestments have no connection to BDS whatsoever. I am going to remove that sentence until such time that someone makes the effort to describe the BDS campaign against Elbit with sources. WP is not advocating for anyone. The material is policy compliant. You have no policy based reason to remove it. I shall post a message at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues to try to get some more editors involved. Having said all that, I do think this material could be summarised. Please assume good faith on my part, I am trying to clean the article up, remove advocacy, unsourced info, remove bullshit ext links and increase policy compliance. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:48, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Also, the NPOV tag is fine by me. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:50, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
OK, I apologize for my reactions. And I did assume good faith, it's just the attitude I reacted too.
As to BDS, it was mentioned in the section because BDS boycotts/advocates the boycotting of Elbit, along with most other Israel-based companies, per that article. That's why it was there. It's not directly related to the investment banks, but it was there. Thanks for removing that, as it's primarily a political boycott of all thing Israeli. As to whether or not I have "no policy based reason to remove" the section, that's what this discussion is about. Obviously you disagree, but you're not the sole judge here. Summary declarations that your views are in line with policy and mine are not, and that the info must stay no matter what really aren't that helpful in a discussion such as we should be having here. What will matter is consensus, and that has yet to be decided. - BilCat (talk) 17:30, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
No problem and fair enough but you're wrong. Just kidding. Well, whatever happens I think that material can be cut down by half pretty easily. The lack of a statement from Elbit and the Israeli gov for balance seems problematic. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:47, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I agree in theory with cutting it down and finding responses to add in. I'll reserve my support until after I see the proposed changes, but I am open to compromise, if we find an equitable solution. ALos, soemone else re-added the BDS comment with a source. I removed it again, but I've not had a chance to read the source for it's reliability. As BDS is apparently boycotting many companies for simply being Israeli, I really don't see the use adding it here. The investment banks situation is different in that it's not strictly national politics. - BilCat (talk) 22:02, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

You say above that "As to BDS, it was mentioned in the section because BDS boycotts/advocates the boycotting of Elbit, along with most other Israel-based companies, per that article. That's why it was there. It's not directly related to the investment banks, but it was there. " - but the reference I added specifically ties the decision by Scandinavian financial institutions to pressure from BDS. HupHollandHup (talk) 21:57, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

If the banks are responding to pressure from BDS, that is making it more political. Palestinian groups oppose Israel. Period. The reasons aren't relevant here. It's no suprise they would oppose Israeli companines, but that shouldn't warrant a mention in a company article. It should be discussed elsewhere on artidle that deal specifically with Israeli-Palestinian issues. - BilCat (talk) 22:02, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
The reason that some of those institutions are divesting from Elbit specifically is that it is heavily involved in the construction of the Israeli West Bank barrier, this is detailed in sources such as this

.

So clearly this belongs on the Elbit article, and the rationales given for the disinvestment should probably be clarified so that readers aren't confused. Unomi (talk) 22:54, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I removed the pov tag, there is nothing pov about adding reliable information. If you need to ad something else contradicting the sources, then ad it. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 10:47, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

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OTC in US or not?[edit]

The last paragraph of the intro says Elbit is traded over the counter in the US, but then gives a NASDAQ symbol. The OTC article says that means trading "without the supervision of an exchange", but NASDAQ is an exchange. That's a contradiction, surely. Shouldn't the article just say "traded on the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ"? -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 19:31, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

You're absolutely right.--JackLaros (talk) 20:01, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Everysight[edit]

insufficient notability for a separate article. DGG ( talk ) 04:24, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I got all the details from Everysight about the technology, will update it soon. It surely stands on its own.--JackLaros (talk) 09:15, 23 January 2018 (UTC)