This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Anni-Frid Lyngstad article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Norway, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Norway on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.NorwayWikipedia:WikiProject NorwayTemplate:WikiProject NorwayNorway articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sweden, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Sweden-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SwedenWikipedia:WikiProject SwedenTemplate:WikiProject SwedenSweden articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Veganism and Vegetarianism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of veganism and vegetarianism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Veganism and VegetarianismWikipedia:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismTemplate:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismVeganism and Vegetarianism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Eurovision, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Eurovision-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EurovisionWikipedia:WikiProject EurovisionTemplate:WikiProject EurovisionEurovision articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
I was going to add the actual German, (Durchlaucht), but it appears that she's not actually 'entitled' to anything: there is no Princess or Count of the units mentioned, and even if there were, except for a few specific examples, the style is long obsolete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.187.201.223 (talk) 09:01, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In spite of a few sourced wanting to make her look royal by incorrectly calling her "Princess Anni-Frid [with no surname]", at least as many know she is not and should never be called that. Her name is Anni-Frid Reuss and a historically obsolete title of "Princess" can be added as a courtesy (not a fact). --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:06, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can detect, the 'royal' titles are only now deemed obsolete in Germany. Former titles can still be part of personal names but not at the forefront there. I don't think this has been applied anywhere else. The actual legal status of Princes and Princesses in Germany had been quashed in Germany after World War One but these titles continued to be recognised and especially in Royal and Aristocratic circles. She appears to only use her title on very formal occasions.
Her legal name is probably Anni-Frid Synni Prinzessin zu Reuss, a name form which members of former German royal families are allowed to apply for. Anything else is actually illegal there. Not having access to her passport, we'll probably never know. Calling her "Princess" in English is only out of courtesy. If she were to use it as an actual title in German, she might be arrested. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That name change would only apply if she was a German citizen and/or living there. This is complicated by the fact that she and her deceased husband, Prince Heinrich Ruzzo Reuss aren't German or ever lived there. Even Heinrich's parents were Swedish and Swiss-Italian. Some of these ancient Royal Houses existed in lands outside of what is modern Germany. There are quite a lot of Princes and Princesses of various former Kingdoms throughout Europe, Asia and elsewhere who appear to keep their titles despite not having any particular noble power. So, as you say, outside of aristocratic circles, there is no requirement to address them by their title but it is a courtesy thing. In this particular case, in public life and as a member of a famous Pop group, she is formerly known as Anni-Frid Lyngstad Reuss but nearly always as simply 'Frida', which she also signs autographs as. She is a close friend of Queen Silvia of Sweden so I guess she has kept her title and out of respect for her late husband. Bovis Messroom (talk) 13:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Even if she signed herself "Princess Frida", I don't think we'd be able to use that here... Martinevans123 (talk) 13:40, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed and it is right that the page title doesn't include it. However, Wikipedia has a worldwide audience and we should not simply apply things because of how one country now does things. She therefore does have that title through her marriage so it should at least be noted in her various known names. Bovis Messroom (talk) 01:28, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
She does not have any valid title since no government has issued it, neither to her nor to her late husband. It's a courtesy title. Since 1918 German titles could no longer be inherited, and no such title originating in Germany is valid or legal. What's in the lead now, about that, is quite sufficient. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Governments don't issue doctorates or other academic titles either. In this case, it is purely hereditary. And again, you are talking as if this page is for Germany only. It isn't. So why would it be edited for how one country applies things? Even her late husbands page has been edited to have how his name would appear in Germany, even though he was not German or ever lived there. I'm not going to press on this because others appear to have a big bee in their bonnet over it. I agree with her most well known full name being the title of the page but Wikipedia should also not be governed by how one particular country sees things. Bovis Messroom (talk) 02:26, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The titles originated in Germany where all such titles were abolished in 1918. Makes no difference where these people have lived after that. Nobody, anywhere, regardless of residence or citizenship, has inherited any German titles that were valid (because they were government-issued) before 1918. Courtesy titles cannot be inherited but can be used as a courtesy. Only as such. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:32, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Consider Duke Ellington and Count Basie (or Count Chocula, for that mater). Wikipedia can say that Edward Kennedy Ellington and William Janes Basie are more widely known as Duke Ellington and Count Basie. It can't say that they are Duke and Count. TheScotch (talk) 18:52, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Those were nicknames (and a fantasy character). Here we are deling with courtesy titles based on past (now illegal) history, and as such also titles that are not sufficiently widely known about the subject person to be given in bold type. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:45, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ingvar Carlsson was not the Swedish Prime Minister at the time. 83.251.164.152 (talk) 17:49, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please, write clearly what do you mean. :) Do you propose to edit some sentence of the article? Which one? D.M. from Ukraine (talk) 14:36, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm guessing they are talking about this sentence:
In 1993, on Queen Silvia's 50th birthday, Frida was asked to perform "Dancing Queen" on stage, as performed by ABBA when the king and queen married in 1976. Frida contacted The Real Group and together they performed the song at the Stockholm Opera House in front of the king and queen. The Swedish prime minister at the time, Ingvar Carlsson, also present that night, said it was an ingenious step to do "Dancing Queen" a cappella.
Carlsson was infact not PM in 1993 as one read the sentence but since I can't see the source for this comment I can't see what they were trying to say. Is it supposed to be a comment from when he was PM? 2A02:1406:1:61A6:DDE2:F3AB:7C30:DDEF (talk) 13:50, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
.svg){kind=small}
Fixed (removed sentence) --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:36, 2 December 2023 (UTC)