Talk:Kakure Kirishitan

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Text and/or other creative content from Kakure Kirishitan was copied or moved into History of Roman Catholicism in Japan with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

On 29 June 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Kakure kirishitan. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Debate, TV doco

"There is some debate on whether or not Kakure Kirishitans still exist" I don't know if there's a debate about their existence still, but this current affairs program interviews some and has a good amount of information which could be included in this article- "Japan - Hidden Christians". The segment itself can be viewed via the media links at the bottom of the page. Often there's a transcipt made available, but I haven't been able to find one for this program. --DrHacky 08:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Terminology problems

The article as it stands mischaracterises Kannon/Gannon/Kanzeon/Avalokiteshvara, who is not a "diety", even less a "goddess". He/she (the figure is androgynous) is a bodhisattva. The error is particularly rancorous when applied to Japanese Buddhists, many of whom practice Zen, many of whose practitioners don't believe that Kanzeon has any objective existence whatsoever; those Buddhists tend to view such old Vedic figures as allegorical devices that embody certain aspects of the Universe, or at best as human-invented "whetstones" for mindful intent. When Kanzeon is called a "goddess" it suggests that Buddhists pray to her and ask her for intercession, as Christians do with their religious personalities. Many do not, and since one of these non-praying denominations is a star player in the drama described here, it's doubly misleading to suggest that the Jesuits in question simply swapped out a local god for one of theirs. What they in fact did was invest entirely new meaning in the statuary in question, as if they decided that from now on all spoons would be secret ikons of the Virgin Mary. (I'll admit that the waters get significantly muddier when you realise that the Virgin Mary is in fact a Western iteration of the ancient Avalokiteshvara figure... but that's a battle for the Virgin Mary article.) Laodah 07:24, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Substantial majority proven to capitalize. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 17:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kakure Kirishitan → Kakure kirishitan – Consistent capitalisation. Veverve (talk) 07:35, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. At least based on ngrams, it seems to me that sources clearly favor capitalising "Kirishitan": Kakure Kirishitan+kakure Kirishitan vs. Kakure kirishitan+kakure kirishitan; Kirishitan vs. kirishitan. Also, of course, "Kirishitan" is very transparently derived from a Japanese pronunciation of "Christian", which is ordinarily treated as a proper name. Adumbrativus (talk) 03:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.