Talk:List of cities administered by the State of Palestine

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Merge with List of cities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was keep separate. -- Debate 10:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Please go to Talk:List of cities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip for the merge discussion. --Shuki 21:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Semi-Protection[edit]

I've blocked new and unregistered users from editing this article because of a wave of edits by different (but closely related) IPs, highly exagarating the populations of the cities. The populations provided are from the PCBS, the most reliable source when it comes to this subject. Plus, no source gives the populations that high. The semi-protection will last for 24 hours. --Al Ameer son (talk) 19:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Jerusalem[edit]

"Category:People by city or town in Palestine" has the entry "People from Jerusalem‎". Should it be here also?
"Abu Dis" is listed from Jerusalem Governorate. Has this something to do with East Jerusalem? 85.217.15.248 (talk) 05:44, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

This article is not exactly about Palestinian cities, but those specifically under the administration of the Palestinian government such as Abu Dis. Abu Dis is its own municipality. It is located in the Jerusalem Governorate, but not a part of East Jerusalem which is mostly populated by Palestinians but under the total control of Israel, notwithstanding the absence of international recognition. --Al Ameer son (talk) 06:13, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

What's the scope of this list[edit]

This list can't seam to decide whether it wants to be about the West Bank (it shows a map of the west bank), or weather it wants to be about the Palestinian territories (it shows some cities from the Gaza Strip). Which it it? We have an article about the List of cities in the Gaza Strip, so if this list is about the whole Palestinian territories, shouldn't these lists be merged. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 21:32, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

This article's scope concerns all Palestinian-governed cities in the GS and WB. I believe the two articles should be merged since having two is unnecessary. Also, the article used to have a map for both territories (File:Palestine election map.PNG) which was removed/replaced when the article was split. When I restored most of it I forgot to restore the picture which I will do now. --Al Ameer son (talk) 22:18, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
OK. There's a discussion related to this at Talk:Lists of cities in the Palestinian territories#Requested move. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 22:24, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Is there any reason not to just go ahead and redirect List of cities administered by Hamas Administration to this page? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 23:36, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
None. --Al Ameer son (talk) 01:26, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and done so. All the cites listed there are listed here, and other then the history section there's nothing to merge into this list. Maybe some content from the History section can merged into this page, but otherwise I'd say merge complete. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:52, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
The History section in that article either repeats the information (first ~half) of this article or is outdated (second ~half). --Al Ameer son (talk) 02:03, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Now that the merge is mostly complete, should we expand the scope to include the settlements (the page would need to be renamed to reflect the larger scope)? After all, the settlements are cites, and they are in the Palestinian territories. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 02:07, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

That's a different story which would require an official merge discussion. I personally disagree with the proposal because Palestinians don't administer the settlement cities, Israel does. This article isn't necessarily about cities in the territories, hence mostly-Palestinian East Jerusalem's exclusion from this article's list. It's about cities administered by the Palestinians. --Al Ameer son (talk) 02:15, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

The merger of the "List of cities administered by Hamas Administration" was done skipping the vote procedure, and hence been reverted. See discussion at Talk:List of cities administered by Hamas Administration#Merge.Greyshark09 (talk) 08:25, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Rename[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved: no decision after 49 days, no discussion in the last 14 days Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:02, 21 June 2013 (UTC)



List of cities administered by the Palestinian National AuthorityList of Palestinian cities in the West Bank and Gaza strip – This list should be renamed, because cities in the Gaza strip are not administered by the Palestinian National Authority (i.e. the State of Palestine). I propose to rename it to List of Palestinian cities in the West Bank and Gaza strip, but there can be a better name.--Relisted. jcc (tea and biscuits) 11:36, 30 May 2013 (UTC)--Brazzon (talk) 03:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Support Dlv999 (talk) 05:07, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose This is actually a bit complicated. The government in Gaza is still technically the PA. They contest that legitamacy with the West Bank-based PA. They participated in and won in PA elections, they don't call themselves the Hamas or Gaza govt., their prime minister is technically the PA prime minister, etc. The 2007 split wasn't a secession from the PA after all and the State of Palestine includes the West Bank (plus E. Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip. The proposed name isn't too problematic, but I find it to be unnecessary. --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:35, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose First of all, Full disclosure: I invited Al Ameer son here because I didn't think I'd have the time to weigh in here, but here I am.
This is a minor point, but the proposed title should be "Palestinian territories" not "West Bank and Gaza strip" to match the parent page and other pages such as Prostitution in the Palestinian territories, Economy of the Palestinian territories, etc.
Both the West Bank and Gaza are under PNA control. As the Governance of the Gaza Strip article points out "Both administrations – the Fatah government in Ramallah and the Hamas government in Gaza– regard themselves as the sole legitimate government of the Palestinian National Authority", it's just a matter of what administration is the legitimate one.
Secondly, "Palestinian cities" is ambiguous. The term could be defined more broadly as "city in the Palestinian territories", which would include Ariel, just as "Italian city" means "city in Italy", "Mexican city" would mean "city in Mexico", etc. If it weren't for the highly unusual situation Palestine in in "Palestinian cities" would unambiguously have the broader definition. We would need to explain in the lead that "Palestinian cities" in the context of this list means "cities administered by the Palestinian National Authority", defeating the purpose of the rename. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 08:55, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Why do you support the ambiguous title "List of Israeli cites" so that Israeli settlements can be erroneously included on that list but oppose the exact same formulation here citing ambiguity? Dlv999 (talk) 09:07, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Because the term is ambiguous. I was considering proposing as a possible comprise renaming this "List of cities in the Palestinian territories" and adding the Israeli-administered cities, but then I started to conceder that there might be room for both a new "Palestinian territories" list and this list. In the case of both List of Israeli cities and that compromise I was considering proposing, I support the lists using the more inclusive scope. Ariel (for example) is Israeli in the sense of being an Israeli settlement and Palestinian in the sense of being in the Palestinian territories. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 09:26, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Your approach is inconsistent. Why is "Palestinian cities" too ambiguous to use, but "Israeli cities" is perfectly fine? Why are we bending over backwards to find some wording so that Israeli settlements can be erroneously listed alongside cities of Israel. Yet you oppose using the same language in the Palestinian case. Dlv999 (talk) 09:35, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict)But now that I take a second look at the article, it wouldn't be worth maintaining two separate heavily overlapping lists. I'll propose my comprise. I just relised, part of your question want over my head. The proposed title "List of Palestinian cities in the Palestinian territories" is if anything clunkier then the current title, whereas the proposed title "List of cities in Israel and Israeli-administered cities in the West Bank" is far clunkier then that articles current title: "List of Israeli cities" Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 09:44, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
We should have a list of Palestinian cities that does not include Israeli settlements. I wouldn't have a problem with you creating an article as you describe. as long as this article remained as it is but being renamed: "List of Palestinian cities" (Palestinian equivalent to the "List of Israeli cities"). Dlv999 (talk) 09:59, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 5 March 2015[edit]

There is no opposition to this move. Sunrise (talk) 02:40, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

List of cities administered by the Palestinian National AuthorityList of cities administered by the State of Palestine – The Palestinian National Authority no longer exists. GregKaye 16:37, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately there is a lack in commonality in content with a title such as Lists of cities in the Palestinian territories as the State of Palestine does not administer the various Israeli settlements and a change in content would be needed so as to match the "in" title. I would also appreciate your thoughts in a parallel discussion at Talk:List of cities in Israel#RfC best resolution of title and content. GregKaye 09:36, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
I think it's wrong that the title has to adapt after Israeli settlements when in fact everyone consider them to be in Palestine. Secondly, I think it's easy to solve by just stating "this list does not include Israeli settlements". I will look there now and I have been active in similiar discussions. --IRISZOOM (talk) 12:08, 8 March 2015 (UTC)--IRISZOOM (talk) 12:08, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Division between West Bank and Gaza[edit]

The division that has been created here is thanks to Wikipedia editors since three years ago, as can bee seen in the article history. While Hamas governs Gaza (the Gaza Strip), no one claims it to be separate from Palestine. There was a discussion in Talk:List of cities in the Gaza Strip#Merge in October 2012 but then it was called List of cities administered by Hamas Administration and there has also been a discussion here above during that time.

Sure there could be two articles, one listing cities in the West Bank and the other one listing those in Gaza (now there is one for the latter), but there should be a general one any way, which this one could be. It could be changed to "in the State of Palestine" (or "in the Palestinian territories") if that is needed to include Gaza again. --IRISZOOM (talk) 01:52, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

These are the current articles on the topic:

So I suggest to merge the two first to be about both the West Bank and Gaza. To differ between which is "administered by the State of Palestine" and which is "in Palestine" is just because of the Israeli settlements. To satisfy them is weird and this could, as I said in the move discussion above, be solved by just saying it excludes Israeli settlements with city status.

Another article that could be created is a list of cities in the West Bank as we have one for Gaza. --IRISZOOM (talk) 03:39, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Shouldn't we add in the table, more information about the cities administration?[edit]

The State of Palestine is acually the PNA that changed its name after being accepted as a UN observer member. The PNA has de-facto controll only on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip is under the Hamas controll. Accuarding to the Oslo accords, the PLO is the only legitemte goverment for the PNA and therefore, Gaza is illegaly under the Hamas goverment. Therefore I belive we should add in the table, for every city a "In the Gaza Strip" and "In the West Bank" This table show De-Jure administration, I think it can show some De-Facto administration. Bolter21 (talk) 12:04, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 1 October 2015[edit]

First offer[edit]

List of cities administered by the State of PalestineList of cities administrated by the Palestinian National Authority and the Hamas government or List of cities in the Palestinian National Authority (with a split or a note to who administrate them)

The PNA was never transfromed to SoP. See SOURCES HERE --Bolter21 23:51, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

@GregKaye and IRISZOOM:.GreyShark (dibra) 12:08, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
You can't even support your ridiculous fictional claim. Give up or give sources. Wikipedia is about sources and you don't provide them. The source you gave to this claim contradict it and you also made other fictional claims such as "the offices of the PNA and SoP" was merged but I never saw any source saying this exact thing, only a wrong-unreliable source that states that the PLO violated the Oslo Accords and transformed the PNA to the 1988 proclaimed SoP. This is a simple lie driven from misunderstanding or an urge to write lies that sounds good in your ear. If you recognize the SoP this is your concern, the SoP is a partially recognized state and you can't change it, especially when you have no sources to support it. I started this discussion a week ago and you or your "friends" didn't have any argument to this so you can do 2 things: give a reliable source that will state that the PLO violated the Oslo Accords and dissolved the PNA or just feel ashamed. --Bolter21 13:14, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
@Greyshark09: Give an argument already --Bolter21 12:49, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
  • support move to List of cities in the Palestinian National Authority (with a split or a note to who administrate them) because there are at present entirely separate authorities in control of Gaza and the West Bank, neither of which can be describes as a state at present. Which is why reliable sources continue to use "Palestinian Authority" They may become so in the future, but Wikipedia odes not permit article titles requiring use of a WP:CRYSTALBALL.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:53, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose As I have written at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine#Articles that need to be moved, it doesn't matter if the PA is a separate entity as the issue is Palestine's status since 2012. It is now considered to be a sovereign state. However, I think the articles should be about the Palestinian territories as that is a well-defined term. There could also be separate articles for the West Bank respectively Gaza. The area of those territories haven't changed because there is a political split. I have also written about this in this section here above. --IRISZOOM (talk) 19:09, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Palestine is not a legal sovereign country, it is under the veto of USA, France and UK. In 2012 the State of Palestine was accepted to the UN as a nonmember observer, how does it make it the administrator of something? Saying that the PNA is a government is wrong and if it's not, the PNA still is the administrator. The SoP is no more then a National Council. --Bolter21 19:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
A state doesn't have to be a member state of UN to be a sovereign state. Look at for example Taiwan. Since the United Nations General Assembly resolution 67/19, however, many see it as a recognition that there is a sovereign Palestinian state. I don't propose anything that says "administered by", it is the opposite, and I think the "Palestinian territories" should be used.
The Palestinian National Authority is a government, organization or similiar that administers a part of the Palestinian territories. It isn't a territory or country so I don't think something should be said to be "in PA" and it is also the Palestinian territories that is the common term, alongside the West Bank and Gaza. --IRISZOOM (talk) 20:04, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
I agree with the claim the PNA is a government with an authority over around 40% of the West Bank, therefore, the name should be "List of cities administrated be the Palestinian Authority". The name can't be "Cities adm. by the SoP" since the SoP doesn't administrate anything while the name "Cities in the SoP" is also wrong becuase there are also Israeli cities within the area atributed to the SoP and excluding them will make no sense. The Hamas government in Gaza was created in a dispute on the leadership of the PNA and the Hamas government in Gaza see it self the rightfull government for the Palestinian Authority while this fact is unclear since the unity government of 2014 whose existance is disputed. One thing is certain, there is only one entity here that administrate things and it is the PNA, weather it is splited or not. --Bolter21 22:13, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
By the way, Taiwan was under the controll of the Qing Dynesty for centuries until it was taken by Japan, restored in 1945 and since then it was under the controll of the RoC. It just happened that the international community have decided to recognize the PROC as the legitimate representor of China. Taiwan is a De Facto country. --Bolter21 22:55, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
I repeat that "administered by" is unnecessary and bad. The Palestinian territories, West Bank and Gaza are the common names. The current articles are List of cities administered by the State of Palestine and List of cities in the Gaza Strip. I think one typ of wording should be used and the common names should be used. So there should be an article called List of cities in the Palestinian territories that shows cities in Gaza and the West Bank.
It will be perfectly possible to exclude Israeli settlements in a list with a note explaning that, nearly similiar to that we have West Bank settlements included in List of cities in Israel and many other places in the West Bank included in Israel-related lists, but that doesn't really matter: articles shouldn't be adjusted to fit Israel and the settler movement. The "Palestinian territories" is by the far most common term, no matter which party or state controls the territory or how many settlements there are.
My example shows that the argument about membership in UN is not good. --IRISZOOM (talk) 23:34, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
Cities in the Palestinian Territories is acceptable. --Bolter21 23:55, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
Strongly oppose using the term "Palestinian territories" which is out of use since 2012.GreyShark (dibra) 20:57, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Second offer[edit]

@IRISZOOM: @Greyshark09: @E.M.Gregory:
List of cities administered by the State of Palestine —→ List of cities administrated by the Palestinian Authority

Since all of the cities in the Palestinian Territories are administrated by the PNA, there is no problem here.

And in regard to the claim "The term "Palestinian Territories" is not used anymore", I suggest taking a look in this lists, saying "Estimated Population in the Palestinian Territory Mid-Year by Governorate,1997-2016" Still, cities in the Palestinian Territories would have to include Israel settlements who has different meaninings and therefore I suggest writing about cities who are administrated by the Palestinian Authority which is 100% recognized (de jure) and will have no effect on the content of this article.

--Bolter21 14:27, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Would you mind giving an opinion so we could resolve this issue? --Bolter21 12:32, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

My opposition still stands for the reasons I outlined:
I repeat that "administered by" is unnecessary and bad. The Palestinian territories, West Bank and Gaza are the common names. The current articles are List of cities administered by the State of Palestine and List of cities in the Gaza Strip. I think one typ of wording should be used and the common names should be used. So there should be an article called List of cities in the Palestinian territories that shows cities in Gaza and the West Bank.
It will be perfectly possible to exclude Israeli settlements in a list with a note explaning that, nearly similiar to that we have West Bank settlements included in List of cities in Israel and many other places in the West Bank included in Israel-related lists, but that doesn't really matter: articles shouldn't be adjusted to fit Israel and the settler movement. The "Palestinian territories" is by the far most common term, no matter which party or state controls the territory or how many settlements there are.
None of this has changed. --IRISZOOM (talk) 18:52, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
I still support "in the Palestinian Territoties", regardless of having settlements or not, it's GrayShark who refuses to compromise on that since he claims that becuase of the UN changed the name for diplomatical intrests, it means that it can also carve up mountains but we are not subjected to the UN. The Palestinian Central Bureau of statistics still use this term and Arab media, including Palestinian, don't regard to the PNA as State of Palestine. But I still see the thing with the settlemets, I think that if we do make a "List of cities in the Palestinian Territories" it should be divided to "Adminstrated by the PNA" and "Administrated by Israeli civil administration" with the four city settlements. Those are indeed, cities in the Palestinian Territories. The list of cities in Israel also cites that those settlements are in the Palestinian Territories. Also, what about Jerusalem? Jerusalem technically is in the Palestinian Territories, should it be listed? It is administrated by Israel and has settlers, if the settlers in the West Bank wouldn't be listed, why would the settlers in East Jerusalem would be? There are many issues in naming the article "List of cities in the Palestinian Territories", I think it will be better to just transform what we have to "Cities administrated by the PNA". --Bolter21 20:51, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
The current content is good and can still be there if the "Palestinian territories" is in the title. However, I think it is awkward to have this article (List of cities administered by the State of Palestine) and List of cities in the Gaza Strip. Either there should be on for the West Bank too or the one about Gaza should redirect to this article. --IRISZOOM (talk) 22:00, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Since the Palestinian Authority is a government and the State of Palestine doesn't acually administrate anything directly, the "administrated" is neccesary if PNA is in the name. I still support "Cities in the Palestinian Territories" just as much as I support cities administrated by PNA since it would be the same list (there are only about 50-100,000 Palestinians in the remainings of the West Bank who all live in small villages) --Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:12, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
I haved argued for not having titles with "PNA" in titles like these and also that the "Palestinian territories" is the common and best term. By the way, according to a newer estimate by the United Nations, 300,000 Palestinians live in Area C but the exact figure is not clear.
The content that is here now still fits into an article that says "List of cities in the Palestinian territories". However, I think there is no reason to have one article like this and List of cities in the Gaza Strip. It would be best to redirect that article to here. --IRISZOOM (talk) 20:32, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
That's because I am educated by Israeli propaganda machine. Anyway as you can see in the source, many of those who live in Area C acually live in residential zones that are partially in Area B, you can see it in detailed maps. Anyway, to our point, the thing with the "List of cities in Gaza" is not important now, my goal is to remove the "List of cities in the State of Palestine" since it is wrong and misleading. I guess you agree on "List of cities in the Palestinian Territories" right? --Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:58, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
Yes, as it says on B'Tselem's article: "Both Bimkom and OCHA say that approximately 60,000 Palestinians live in at least 180 villages and communities that lie entirely within Area C. The rest reside in approximately 290 villages and towns. Only some of the built-up area of these communities is located in Area C, while the remainder is in Areas A or B".
I support a change to "List of cities in the Palestinian territories". --IRISZOOM (talk) 21:12, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
That's already something. I"ve already added a discussion in Talk:List of cities in the Gaza Strip. --Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:18, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
Great. I will write there later. --IRISZOOM (talk) 22:58, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Third Offer[edit]

@IRISZOOM: @Greyshark09: @E.M.Gregory:
List of cities administered by the State of Palestine —→ List of cities in the Palestinian Territories

The Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics use this term source. --Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:06, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Support: It will resolve the problem that no source can say that SoP adminstrate those cities as the PNA administrate them. It will be better off with "Cities in the Palestinian Territories" which is another name for the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The State of Palestine is not listed as a location by Brittanica and the CIA world factbook. Administration is regarded to the Palestinian Authority which is the government. It will also save the consistancy of Wikipedia's articles about cities in countries and territories, where the articles' names are always "List of cities in...". As it seems, Grayshark have renamed the article with the acceptence of only one user other then him without any other support or any comment. His claim was that the PNA doesn't exist but this statement was refuted and the user who agreed, IRISZOOM, no longer agree. Therefore, the claim to have the article named "List of cities administrated by the State of Palestine" is no longer valid.
Support: I support a change to "List of cities in the Palestinian territories". --IRISZOOM (talk) 21:12, 28 October 2015 (UTC) (quoted by Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:29, 29 October 2015 (UTC))
I once again want to say that since this comes up yet again that the issue about the Palestinian Authority's status is different from if the State of Palestine is a state or not. Since the UN resolution three years ago, many think it is and that is regardless if PA exists or not. However, using the "Palestinian territories" (with the flag etc.) shouldn't be an issue and is also the common term. --IRISZOOM (talk) 18:53, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Oppose - the source is clearly outdated. Palestine uses "State of Palestine" terminology since 2013. Anyway this is a proposal to revert a clear public consensus.GreyShark (dibra) 18:54, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Public consensus? by who exactly? you and the United Nations? The United Nations is not a god. No city is administrated by the State of Palestine according to any source. There are sources who say that say SoP in regard to the Palestinian Authority but that doesn't mean that the Palestinian Authority is the State of Palestine, I have already removed this fictional unbased claim that is opposed by an endless number of sources, many of whom are Palestinian and other Arab/anti-Israel. The source doesn't say population in "State of Palestine", it says "Palestinian territory", "West Bank" and "Gaza Strip". Just a reminder, Palestinian territory is a term made by the UN, the Palestinians, if would like to label places as "SoP", they would use it but they don't. The PCBS was established in 1993, before the Palestinian Authority have existed and it serves the 1988 proclaimed State of Palestine, not the Palestinian Authority, that's why it says "State of Palestine" in the top, that doesn't mean it make it's research in the "State of Palestine". Only you think the State of Palestine is a de-facto thing but Palestininas tend to disagree as they continue to fight for independence. The source is not outdated because it lists detalis from 2014. Other sources in this website do the same from 2015 and even predictions to 2016. Needless to say, this organization works on the behalf of the State of Palestine --Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:37, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

@GregKaye: Please express your opinion on this. The claim that the PNA doesn't exist anymore was already refuted. --Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:37, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

@Greyshark09: So should I move this? --Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:45, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

  • Comment - Bolter i guess you are quite new to Wikipedia, so you haven't yet experienced the complexity of defining what should "Palestinian territories" encompass. State of Palestine administration is much more clear, per UN conventional naming adopted since 2013. And in order to prevent problems - we should bring more editors to comment - thus you better issue an RFC. For now, 2 (including one weak support) against my oppose is certainly not a consensus.GreyShark (dibra) 16:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - asking more opinions from commenters of "Governorates of Palestine" discussions @Neljack, Soman, Andrewa, Igorp lj, Khestwol, WarKosign, and Shhhhwwww!!:.GreyShark (dibra) 17:17, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
I said that to bring you back to the argument and not for violating Wikipedia's rules, since you seem to intentionally disapear from this conversation as usual in regarding to that case I started about the rename of the PNA, it seems that I made you come back to the argument so it was the right thing to do. Now, he term "Palestinian Territories" or "Occupied Palestinian Territories" was used both to describe the West Bank-Gaza Strip and the Palestinian Authority. (Sources in the lead section of the article Palestinian Territories). The State of Palestine is a legal thing since 2012, that doesn't mean they administrate all of the territory that is administrated by the Palestinian Authority since 1994. The UN doesn't say it operates in the "State of Palestine", the UN operates in the "Occupied Palestinian Territories" (As you can see here and here). The UN mention the Palestinian Authority (PA) here but doesn't mention the State of Palestine. This leads us back to the "Second Offer" which I also support. List of cities administrated by the Palestinian Authority which was changed base on a consensus that was lead by a misconception. --Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:30, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Please don't raise conspiracy theories - i do not edit every day and as you see, once you ask me - i do comment, and i do that with respect.GreyShark (dibra) 20:49, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
The OCHA website is outdated, and is for some reason not complying with UN conventions and with ISO. It is however only a secondary office on UN for humanitarian affairs and not the main UN body. See UN sources for states and missions etc.: Palestine mission UN website, UN press release (Sep 2015), UN Countries' data, UN World Food Program, Development Framework (UNDAF). Other UN offices simply use "Palestine" UN Habitat, UN Multimedia.GreyShark (dibra) 20:49, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Official status of State of Palestine is disputed, while nobody disputes the existence of West Bank and Gaza a.k.a. Palestinian Territories. The proposed change does not hurt accuracy, but removes potential bias. WarKosign 17:29, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
The thing is that "Palestinian territories" is not West Bank+Gaza Strip, as you and some others do try to present. The most common use of Palestinian territories is to refer to the Palestinian National Authority areas A+B and sometimes also to the villages of Palestinians in area C (even though those are administered by the Israeli Civil Administration). Clearly inclusion of East Jerusalem and Etzion area in "Palestinian territories" is at best a Palestinian POV position, which is certainly not existing in reality. Furthermore, one can dispute whether it is correct to speak of Palestinian territories as a unified unit, considering the Ramallah's Fatah-led administration recognized as "State of Palestine" and Gazan Hamas-led administration, which is still self-branded as Palestinian Authority, though a different one that the original Authority.GreyShark (dibra) 20:49, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Source please. --Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:23, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
You behavior is highly inappropriate. You cannot shout "source please" in every thread (including below), while multiple sources have been brought by me in our previous discussions, and i'm sure you have read those. Your opinions are loosely supported on sporadic sources, like OCHA, which is not the only and main authority for geographic conventions.GreyShark (dibra) 07:49, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
What about the Palestinian Central Buraeu of Statistics? --Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:18, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Are you kidding me?! The Bureau of Statistics of the State of Palestine (as stated on the front page source) state how many people live in Palestine's territory. "Palestinian territory" mentioned by PCBS is clearly the territory of the State of Palestine; parallel to "Israeli territory". The concept "Palestinian territories, Occupied" however is a different concept and PCBS do not say oPt or PT anywhere on the website... sorry mate.GreyShark (dibra) 14:26, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Bring a source then. --Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:25, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

What is a city?[edit]

I've attempted to get the definition of "city" on the website of the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Local Government, but found no such distinction, as mentioned in the article. However, there are three levels of "municipality", A, B, C and D (distinct from the political designations Area A, B and C), in addition to village councils, and other designations of local governments. I would think the designation municipality A would be the closest equivalent to city. Some governorate seats are designated as municipality B. Perhaps we could have clearer selection criteria of the listed cities. Many of these listed here have a population of under 20K. One option would be to include only the Municipality A designation. Another would be to list all cities with more a population greater than 20000, a third would be to list municipalities A and B. --Fjmustak (talk) 21:59, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

I assume the info is here.. too bad I left Arabic class.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Bolter21, thanks for the link. But this document does not define "city". My question was more how this list was compiled... Because this is not a complete list of all the localities with a population greater than 10,000. --Fjmustak (talk) 14:49, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
I see the problem... I read a little bit but I can't find the source, "Municipality type 1" is either a city or a town, so We can't really know. Some towns get a status of a city even if they don't follow a criteria (also read it and can't find the source). I"ll try to contact PCBS and see if they can provide us with information.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:20, 7 February 2016 (UTC)