Talk:New Jersey/Archive 2

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Movies

As a west-coaster, I am surprised not to find Garden State (2004) on the list on the main State page for NJ. This movie is probably one of the more modern positive representations of this state and should be put on the list with the others. GigaTronicus (talk) 13:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

new jersey

Who founded it? why was it discovered? What hard ships did it carry? Also how was it governed?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.78.2.10 (talk) 15:57, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
... What...? Jersey John (talk) 22:50, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Politics

I'm surprised that nothing was included about Sharpe James' reign of terror in Newark and the political throwdown with Cory Booker. This is an important part of black politics and the election, a pivotal moment in New Jersey history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.109.64.226 (talk) 15:00, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Please. Just because it's a big deal to your certain demographic does not mean it's a big deal to everyone else in the state. I didn't hear anything about it down here in Gloucester county, where we get inundated by major news sources in the tri-state area AND NY, so it's not really a "pivotal moment" in NJ history. It ight be pivotal to your demographic. But that's it. It's not really all that special. Sorry. Jersey John (talk) 22:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

USS Enterprise (CV-6) fate

from the webpage on the CV-6:

[edit] The end of the "Big E" Enterprise entered the New York Naval Shipyard on 18 January 1946 for inactivation, and was decommissioned on 17 February 1947. In 1946, she had been scheduled to be handed over to the state of New York as a permanent memorial, but this plan was suspended in 1949.[2] Subsequent attempts were made at preserving the ship as a museum or memorial, but fund-raising efforts failed to raise enough money to buy the vessel from the Navy, and the "Big E" was sold on 1 July 1958 to the Lipsett Corporation of New York City for scrapping at Kearny, New Jersey.

as opposed to the report in the NJ section about the "Big E" being transported to Japan for scrapping. Considering the dates, I doubt that the ship would have been moved to Japan for political reasons...I'm modifying the webpage according to this find at the CV-6 association website:

<http://www.cv6.org/1946/scrap/default.htm>

But this time she won't be back. The chattering racket was not her 40-mm. antiaircraft batteries spattering the sky with flack, but a battery of air hammers chewing up her flight deck. The booming roars of tumbling steel involved no enemy bombs. The fires glared from oxyacetylene torches. All last winter the Big E was coming apart systematically, piece by piece, in a dreary shipyard on the Hackensack River in Kearney, N. J. As you read this the last chunks of her once great hull are rumbling away in gondola cars to the melting pots.

ck DocKrin (talk) 17:32, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

vandalism

Please remove the vandalism contributed by user Lubejob in the most recent edit. Azbuka (talk) 21:16, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Now removed - thanks for catching that. AlexiusHoratius 21:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

New ferswe

asdhfaksgfvleugfliaewrf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.199.52.103 (talk) 02:31, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

State bird, state tree, and state flower

State bird Eastern Gold Finch. State tree Red Oak. state flower Purple violet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.200.24 (talk) 01:56, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

New Polling on gay marriage

The 2 polls used in the article are from 2005, i will update the section that shows polling that is up to date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.60.57 (talk) 20:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC) Wait scratch that, could someone update the section on social attitudes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.60.57 (talk) 20:26, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I wanted to edit using the latest poll @ http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6776022&rss=rss-wpvi-article-6776022 but apparently I'm not established enough to do it. Anyone? --LeekosAgrios (talk) 19:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you to the person who has updated the section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.60.57 (talk) 01:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Unable to edit

"Inhabited by Native Americans for more than 2,800 years, the first European settlements in the area were established by the Swedes and Dutch in the early 1600s." Nice dangling modifier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.172.248.58 (talk) 03:26, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

"New Jersey is one of only two states (along with Oregon) where self-service filling of gasoline is prohibited." The "self-service" link should instead be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_station#Types_of_service 72.181.209.145 (talk) 04:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

History

I think the history seems quite contervesial with "billions of years,drift thoery" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.90.245.87 (talk) 01:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC) i think it was all about what people baleved the aria thats just me lolol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.203.158 (talk) 23:39, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Transportation

While there is a thorough description of the the NY/NJ Tunnel/Bridge connection, I expected a similar paragraph on the connections to Philadelphia to follow. The Bridge connections include the Walt Whitman Bridge, Benjamin Franklin Bridge, and Betsy Ross Bridge, and perhaps a mention of the forthcoming tram line across the Delaware River would be appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.248.159.92 (talk) 13:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

♥ Transpertation back then ♥ People will never no how people got around back in the old days when they had hevey lodes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.203.158 (talk) 23:49, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Forms of Government

In the section on "Forms of Government", it says: "though there are four municipalities that are officially named villages, Loch Arbour is the only one remaining with the village form of government." I just googled South Orange Village Township. The municipality's official website (http://www.southorange.org/government.asp) says it has a "village president" and a 6-member "board of trustees". That sounds like the village form of government. I suggest it be revised to say "Loch Arbour and South Orange are the only two ...." Eagle4000 (talk) 21:06, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

State population

The numbers don't seem to "add up", so to speak, re "natural", "migration", etc. Are the "immigration" numbers for the US (in the subsequent sentence) to be included with the natural and migration numbers in the preceding sentence? These two or three sentences should be re-worded, for clarification. Eagle4000 (talk) 21:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editsemiprotected}} Jersey is not part of the English Channel Islands it is part of the British Channel Islands. We are no more English than we are Welsh or Scottish, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.244.69.25 (talk • contribs) 20:43, 31 May 2009

Done, I've changed the qualifier and linked to the Channel Islands article for clarity. haz (talk) 11:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Conflicting Population Density

The Lead says that NJ is first in population density in the U.S., but the Infobox says it's ranked 11th. This needs to be addressed. Nightscream (talk) 21:59, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

First in population density, but 11th in population. Different measurements. Yngvarr (t) (c) 22:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

zagat's citation (trivia) http://www.tripwiser.com/trip_destination-New_Jersey_USA?itiNodeId=8ad198fc0cbeb4e4010cc9d41e344fa2&eType=site

unable to edit because of new account. Scg223 (talk) 12:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Friday the 13th

In both the original Friday the 13th and the remake, New Jersey license playes can be seen on the locals cars, therefor this should prove that the movies took place in NJ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.61.183 (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Earthquakes in Jersey

In the climate section, it says that New Jersey never gets earthquakes- this is far from correct. New Jersey actually gets a large amount of earthquakes in the northern part of the state. It is just not as noticeable as say California. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Triscuitbiscuit (talk • contribs) 14:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Potatoes

They're awsome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.180.138.213 (talk) 18:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Demography

In Table "Demographics of NJ", under "Racial Group, etnicity..." numbers must be wrong. See: 2005 (total population) 77.68% 15.19% 0.66% 7.70% 0.15% The sum gives 101.38 % --71.250.243.192 (talk) 16:16, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

According to the listed source, 89,444 people identified themselves as being of more than one race. That correctly results in the total being higher than 100%. Jim Miller See me | Touch me 18:48, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Interesting. And how about the Hispanic population? What does that differentiation - between total population and hispanic only - mean? Thanks. --71.250.243.192 (talk) 16:16, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

NEW JERSEY

NEW JERSEY IS A BORING PLACE N THERE ARE NO INTERESING FACTZ ABOUT IT I DNT LYKE NEW JERSEY IT BOMBS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.250.190.18 (talk) 19:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

You don't know how to spell either. —ASPENSTI—TALK—CONTRIBUTIONS 12:31, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Come off the fence and tell us what us what you really think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.203.42.163 (talk) 02:37, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Weasel Words in Geography Section

I pointed out in the article the wording of the division of New Jersey into 3 section (north, central and south) as containing Weasel Words and not being written with a neutral point of view. I'm not sure how to rephrase it but perhaps another editor could weigh in on the situation? —ASPENSTI—TALK—CONTRIBUTIONS 12:09, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

NJ's bad reputation

NJ has a bad rep, and gets made fun of a lot - particularly by New Yorkers. (I'm from NY, FWIW...)

I was wondering: why? When did this start?


Did you ever drive down the Turnpike, starting from Manhattan and ending, say, at exit 12 in Carteret? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.250.243.192 (talk) 18:43, 31 August 2009 (UTC)



The article doesn't cover this except for one mention about Futurama. Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 08:10, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you're unaware that NY also has a bad rep, and gets made fun of a lot? Even New Jerseyans who enjoy visiting now and then often marvel that anyone would be willing to live there. It's a mutual thing, largely perpetuated by poor and unsophisticated people on both sides, who never get to experience the better aspects of life on the other side, only the awful ones. I'd guess it began during the War of Independence, when New York sided with the British against the Americans across the river in NJ.Thefactis (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Um, you do realize there were more torries in NJ, right? Jersey John (talk) 22:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

There is a book going around saiying that it is illegal to slurp soup in New Jersey, but for the record, it is NOT, from my point of view at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.250.193.200 (talk) 01:55, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Alot of the New Yorkers making fun of us is because of the New Jersey-New York Rivalry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.82.51.254 (talk) 00:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I have also heard about NJ's bad rep as a Pennsylvanian (Pittsburgian to be exact), but not about NY. I think it's pretty much a NJ thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.166.3 (talk) 03:05, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

It's the same old story throughout human history. People from the supposedly more "enlightened" and "sophisticated" urban centers, like NYC, often look down upon the so-called "unsophisticated rubes" in more rural areas like New Jersey. This can be seen throughout history and around the world: Londoners looking down upon those from Yorkshire, Romans scoffing at Gaulish barbarians... I suspect the pervasiveness of the particular NJ reputation is due to it's proximity to the vast media outlet that NYC provides. javascript:insertTags('68.196.19.147 (talk) 01:46, 26 August 2009 (UTC)',,)

Word "corrupt" doesn't appear in this article

Except once in the history section. I live in NJ. My friends and I all agree "NJ is the most corrupt state in the US." How come this article doesn't seem to address this?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 23:25, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you and your friends agree, it must be true.
Seriously though, if you have verifiable information regarding the corruption of NJ vs. the other 49 states, feel free to be bold and add it yourself. --Xanzzibar (talk) 23:37, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Okey dokey.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 02:19, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Geography

The references to the regions do not match the shading on the map. For instance, the Gateway Region is referred to as encompassing 6 counties, yet only 3 are really shaded in matching colors. The remaining 3 are not shaded the same color. This seems to be either the incorrect map to be using while referring to the regions, or the incorrect counties to be including in the regional descriptions. Adkted2me (talk) 05:19, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

New Jersey Governor Chris Christie

The 'New Jersey' wikipedia page needs to be updated to reflect that the current governor of New Jersey is Chris Christie, and not Jon Corzine.

Here is the WSJ link for verification: <deleted as not factual>

Decameron101 (talk) 06:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

We need to do no such thing, as he is not governor yet. I'm not even sure if the election results have been officially certified yet, but he's not governor until he's sworn in on January 20, regardless. A note that Christie is governor-elect may be warranted, if you want to add that. Be bold and add it yourself if you like. --Xanzzibar (talk) 07:56, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Xanzzibar for correcting Decameron's erroneous fact. Decameron- like the U.S. Presidential Election, New Jersey does not swear in its governor until January. The WSJ link only indicates that he won the race, it does not refer to him as the governor of the state, and therefore the link you posted earlier has been removed to avoid confusion. Adkted2me (talk) 03:56, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Christie is not New Jersey Governor Until Jan 20, 2010

Chris Christie is the Governor Elect until he takes office on January 20th, 2010. Stating he is currently the governor is factually incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Techdarko (talk • contribs) 04:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

This is very true, it needs to be changed back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Strainic (talk • contribs) 05:17, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Should there me a note that there is an imcomming Lt. Governor rather than just "None"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.64.147 (talk) 00:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I made the change. --GOPTeen1995 (talk) 00:37, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind he is governor 24.187.39.136 (talk) 02:01, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Moving image of NJ flag

animation of NJ flag blowing in breeze
The flag of New Jersey

Check out this animated flag; wonder if its suitable for this article.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 03:00, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I would say no. Animated .gifs are usually reserved for diagrams with moving parts. I personally find it distracting. --Michael Greiner 03:19, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Introduction Section

The intro section refers to New Jersey being bordered along the east by Westchester County, New York City and Long Island- this is incorrect. The northern most tip of the state (where I live) is bordered on the east by the Hudson River, and across said river lies New York City (specifically the Bronx and Manhattan). Only a very tiny portion of Westchester County (specifically the city of Yoners) lies (again) across the Hudson from Bergen County NJ. Also, this article fails to reference that it is bordered on the Northeast by Rockland County, NY and on the Northwest by Orange County, NY.Adkted2me (talk) 04:07, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I cut down the info in the first paragraph a bit to just basic directions and neighboring states - I don't think the first paragraph was the right spot to be going into what counties, rivers, bays and boroughs the state lies next to. If someone wants to add that later on in the article, like in the geography section, that's fine, or if the want to mess with the wording in the intro a bit, that's fine too, but the original intro went into a bit too much detail, and I think cutting it back a bit takes care of most of the issues you're talking about. AlexiusHoratius 15:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


RoadKill555 (talk) 08:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)I don't know if this belongs here, but it seemed suitable. Under "demonyms," someone put "New Jerseyite" and "Jerseyite." I feel these are incorrect. In my experience as a life-long New Jersey resident, we refer to ourselves as the first-stated "New Jerseyans" or just "Jerseyan(s)." The "-ite" suffix is, in my experience, used only by people NOT from the state. Even on the state's web page, it refers to us as "New Jerseyans."RoadKill555 (talk) 08:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

We don't really use it natively, that much is true in my experience, as well. But it remains a valid grammatical construct, as well as remaining in use by people not from Jersey. So, it's still important to make note of it, even if everyone who says it is clearly an out-of-towner. --Xanzzibar (talk) 08:11, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Jerseyite is pejorative and inappropriate. HerbertMMarx (talk) 18:19, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
User:Xanzzibar|Xanzzibar restored "Jerseyite" & wrote - "If it's pejorative, then I guess we really like insulting each other a lot" - This argument fails for two reasons:

1) New Jerseyans do not refer to themselves as Jerseyites - Xanzzibar says that himself above. 2) Even if they did, that does not mean it's not pejorative - there are numerous examples of this.

What's more, the source provided for "Jerseyite" would hardly qualify as verification even if there were no alternate source (and even that source notes that some of its demonyms are pejorative) and in this case, there is a much stronger source for "New Jerseyan" - both the State of New Jersey and the Feds say that the demonym is "New Jerseyan". For all of these reasons I am changing it back to only "New Jerseyan".

Would anyone else care to state their views?HerbertMMarx (talk) 06:46, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

There's nothing to really discuss. It's a real term, and it's used. Even if it were a pejorative - and I see no evidence that it is, whether from personal experience or from yourself - it's still a commonly-used term. Over twice as commonly used on the Internet than New Jerseyan, by a Google search. --Xanzzibar (talk) 14:40, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
Xanzzibar - "it's a real term and it's used" is not a standard. The State of New Jersey says the demonym is "New Jerseyan". The Federal Government says the demonym is "New Jerseyan". Please provide some support other than "you can find it on the internet". I'd love to hear what others have to say on this, so far only you are pushing it. As far as it being pejorative, here are some links:

http://newarkusa.blogspot.com/2007/08/newark-street-in-dc-new-jerseyite-free.html

http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?t=199

What's more, about the only time you hear "New Jerseyite" is in jokes or stories denigrating people from NJ. HerbertMMarx (talk) 04:04, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Your links prove nothing about its pejorative nature, and are nothing more than people complaining that they hate the term. In fact, the first of the two links seems to indicate that, at large, New Jersey citizens are known are New Jerseyites, regardless of what we call ourselves.
"Normalcy" is also very much a standard for Wikipedia. e.g., WP:COMMONNAME. Coverage of pejorative and pseudo-pejorative terms in actual use are also covered in articles, e.g. gypsy for the Roma people. And as far as evidence that it's in use: well, it's in the dictionary, and not labelled as archaic. And the search engine test is an acceptable standard beyond that; specifically, look at the "Confirm roughly how popularly referenced an expression is" item under "Search engines can:". --Xanzzibar (talk) 14:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Your use of a Search engine test ignores the first item under "Search engines cannot:"

"Guarantee the results are reliable or "true" (search engines index whatever text people choose to put online, true or false)."

I think it's pretty clear from the citations I've offered that "New Jerseyan" is the correct demonym. I think it is also pretty clear from the search results under "New Jerseyite" that for the most part "New Jerseyite" is being used because they don't know and don't care what the proper term is. This is different from your example of "Gypsy". The question at hand appears to be:

"Should an Encyclopedia include terms that are incorrect if they are somewhat commonly used?"

I do not believe that it should, you seem to feel that it should. I think that is the crux of the difference of opinion. HerbertMMarx (talk) 21:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

It does not ignore it; it simply is not applicable. I cited it merely as proof that it is used, not that it is correct. The fact that reputable dictionaries list is as a valid term is what makes it "correct". However much you and I may use/prefer -an over -ite, -ite is a accepted, sourced construction. --Xanzzibar (talk) 00:22, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

pronunciation

why is the [nju] jersey pronunciation listed before [nu]??? I've never heard anyone say [nju] anywhere in the US. I'm assuming its an RP thing, but isn't the point of the pronunciation guide to give the local or at least national pronunciation first?

What are the local pronunciations of "Jersey"? I see them stereotyped as "Joyzee". Is it just that the /r/ is dropped, or is something else going on with the vowel? kwami (talk) 06:58, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Click on the word "listen": [nuː ˈdʒɜrzi] ⓘ --Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:56, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Okay, I didn't know how much that was a local accent, or if it was just someone in Chicago. kwami (talk) 17:28, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm using dialup so the "New" part isn't loading properly, but Jersey sounds correct - it's pronounced exactly as Tomwsulcer spelled it in IPA. Nuw dJer-zey. The Joyzee thing is Joe Piscopo from SNL (Jersey Guy), and it's like an overly stereotypical 50s gangster accent "Hey, I'm Joyzee Guy. Hey, I'm from Joyzee." It's not really representative. Michael Sheflin (talk) 18:52, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Hey, I'm from Chicago, but live in Jersey, and sometimes say "Joyzee" but you can say Jersey any way you wish. :)--Tomwsulcer (talk) 19:23, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Okay. "New York" w/o the ar is quite common, but I didn't know how widespread non-rhotic "Jersey" was, or if we should include it. kwami (talk) 21:34, 26 January 2010 (UTC)


Should New Jerseyite and Jerseyite by included under New Jersey's demonyms? HerbertMMarx (talk) 21:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I really am not sure. Is "New Jerseyan" a common form as well? I say: use your judgment, go with what you think best.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 21:28, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
(New) Jerseyite and Jerseyan, in that order, are both listed in the dict. So of course they're appropriate. kwami (talk) 02:45, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
If you've got a reliable source, it's appropriate, as long as the number of demonyms is kept to a reasonably low number. The current source for "Jerseyite" is not reliable, as it's a wiki article without references, so delete it. AtSwimTwoBirds (talk) 01:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Done. My refs only have New X, and only hint that X might also be used. (Though I expect it is.) kwami (talk) 03:17, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
At the very least, Jerseyan, as the demonym recognized by both the NJ State Government and the Federal Government, should be listed first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HerbertMMarx (talk • contribs) 06:31, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

new jersey is cool —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.136.231.93 (talk) 14:30, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Industry

According to the most recent Fortune 500, NJ is home to 42 Fortune 500 companies, 41 after the bankruptcy of Linens n Things. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2008/states/NJ.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.24.195 (talk • contribs) 02:37, April 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ocean Township

I feel Ocean Township should be included in the list of Jersey Shore towns. It borders Asbury Park and Long Branch to the East, along with Deal and Neptune to the South.

There is an existing entry that may be referenced: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_Township,_Monmouth_County,_New_Jersey

Thank You,

Jeff Shelly (talk) 15:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Goethals Bridge

 Done The Goethals Bridge connects New Jersey to Staten Island, New York, not Brooklyn.

Got it. - UtherSRG (talk) 03:33, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 68.80.225.122, 13 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The following sounds like opinion, with no references, and so should be deleted or supported with facts: "However, such higher salaries are negated by the high taxes when the large property and state/local income taxes, as well as the low rate of return by the federal government (which may cause those high taxes) is included."

68.80.225.122 (talk) 23:18, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Already doneSpitfire19 (Talk) 02:30, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

The Garden State

Why is New Jersey nicknamed "the Garden State"? Seems like this would be a great place to mention that.--66.108.161.237 (talk) 23:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Here this might help--Shmaltz (talk) 00:04, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

median income

There is a discrepancy between the "median income" cited in the info box ($64,470) and the "median income" cited in the lead section ($65,306, via Wikilink to "Household income in the United States#Income by state") (near the end of the second paragraph).

The info box lists New Jersey's "median income" ("MedianHouseholdIncome" in the edit box) as $64,470. The link for the info-box "median income" re-directs to the Wiki article on "Median household income", which contains no statistical info on N.J. Where does the $64,470 figure come from?

The lead section (near the end of the second paragraph) says: "Today, New Jersey has the highest population density and the second highest median income of any state in the United States. Only Maryland has a higher median income." The link for this "median income", however, links to a different Wiki article, i.e., Household income in the United States#Income by state, which says: "The median household income by state ranged from $36,338 or 28% below national median in Mississippi, to $66,176 or 32% above national median in New Hampshire. New Jersey and Connecticut came in at number two and three respectively with a median household incomes of $65,306 and $64,682."

Thus, the New Jersey article (in its lead section) says that Maryland has the highest "median income", but the Household income in the United States article (at "Income by state") says that New Hampshire has the highest "median household income". Which one is correct: Md. or N.H.?

Also, what is N.J.'s median income: $64,470 or $65,306? Eagle4000 (talk) 18:56, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

You've picked up on an important discrepancy. What do you recommend we do here?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:32, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I just noticed that the Household income in the United States article was not up to date. Its own table now has the 2008 figures, which show MD (not NH) as #1, with NJ still at #2. I just edited that article accordingly. I recommend changing the New Jersey article only in the info box, in 2 ways: (1) updating the amount to $70,378 (from $64,470) and (2) changing the Wikilink for "Median income" to Household income in the United States. I don't know how to do the latter, however, as the edit box (for the infobox) shows "MedianHouseholdIncome" (instead of an article name with the double open and double close brackets); is that from the template for the infobox for all 50 states' articles? On a related note, is the median-income figure in the other states' infoboxes likewise outdated? Should that be automatically updated by bot? Eagle4000 (talk) 06:46, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 Done Good job catching this. Other states might need updating too. One note: whenever possible we should get info direct from the source rather than other Wikipedia articles in case the other Wikipedia article is incorrect (or out of date). If you need more info about referencing, click here and read this page in the "editing" mode so you can see the references. Thanks Eagle4000.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:12, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

The figures in this section are misleading because they are not adjusted for cost-of-living. This is similar to quoting GDP per capita at market exchange rates rather than PPP. Imaung (talk) 19:57, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Federal taxation disparity

The article makes the strong assertion that: "New Jersey has the highest disparity of any state in the United States between what it gives to the federal government and what it receives" However, this does not take into account the fact that New Jersey is home to and derives revenue from a large number of corporations and employees in sectors of the economy (e.g. healthcare and financials) that are heavily subsidized by the Federal government.

Imaung (talk) 19:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from DreamGurl2287, 25 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}


~Elizabeth~ 14:07, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.Spitfire19 (Talk) 14:12, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

sports

I am new to this type of thing but noticed a glaring error on the sports section the Giants and Jets do not play in "Medowlands stadium" as there is no such stadium They play in 'Giants Stadium'. There is a soon to be finished stadium that will bear the name of the corporate sponsor but it is not going to be Medowlands Stadium either please correct this as the page is locked and I do not have access to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.203.179.59 (talk) 01:49, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Giants Stadium is pretty far along in the process of being demolished. The new stadium was completed a few months ago and has held multiple events including a series of Bon Jovi concerts. It has not had its naming rights sold yet (and according to the New York Times won't for a while) and is currently called 'Meadowlands Stadium' by the NFL and has its official website at [1]. --Michael Greiner 04:45, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit Request - Charles Lindbergh

Might we include a reference to Charles and Anne Morrow Lindburgh, probably East Amwell's most famous residents? Also, it is worth noting that the Lindbergh baby was kidnapped from their home in East Amwell and was considered the crime of the century at that time. CatARoo (talk) 12:41, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from {{subst:CURRENTUSER}}, 9 August 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The 'Entertainment' section of the entry for the US state of New Jersey is extremely confusing as the table used to list venues and such has been incorrectly altered by all the information on the Jersey Shore, which should not be in the table cell location it is now but be separate from the main table which has headers of 'Venue,' 'Type,' 'Location,'.... The same goes for the information on Theme Parks, which also needs it's own table apart from the 'Venue,' 'Type,' etc. table. Johnson787us9 (talk) 14:59, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Done. I don't think bulleted lists and tables are the best way to display this information, though. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request to New_Jersey#Colonial_era

Please change Plimouth Plantation to Plymouth Colony from the sentence below. The former is not a real place, well not in history, but a recreation museum to show what the early settlement might have been and looked.

"Unlike Plimouth Plantation, Jamestown and other colonies, New Jersey was populated by a secondary wave of immigrants who came from other colonies instead of those who migrated directly from Europe." -John in Cinci

Done. --Apollo1758 (talk) 21:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 67.129.209.1, 30 December 2010

{{Edit semi-protected}} In the points of interest section of the page, within the entertainment venues, PNC Bank Arts Center's location currently states "Meadowlands Sports Complex." This is incorrect. The PNC Bank Arts Center is located in Holmdel Township, New Jersey. The PNC Bank Arts Center page in Wikipedia states the location correctly.

67.129.209.1 (talk) 18:32, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Done --Xanzzibar (talk) 22:00, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit Request - Population in Thumbnail

Need assistance in entering new 2010 Census population data in thumbnail. Castncoot (talk) 16:33, 4 February 2011 (UTC) 

   Figured it out and took care of it myself.Castncoot (talk) 07:21, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Someone messed up the page again

I can't find the exact revision of this article which looks correct, because Wikipedia is acting slowly for me right now, but last time I checked, the capital of New Jersey was Trenton not New York City. --Ipeters61 (talk) 00:22, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Where is the error at? I don't see NYC listed as the capital anywhere in the article. --Xanzzibar (talk) 22:07, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Relative sunny-ness

I wouldn't mind if someone came up with an official description of "sunny-ness" adjectives. That said, we shouldn't be applying our own. That is WP:OR and probably WP:POV as well. My guess is that NJ is an "average" temperature-climate state, not particularly sunny nor particularly cloudy either. "Average" in other words. Not something the Chamber of Commerce folks are going to like.

There are 50 states, close to 200 countries and 10,000 places, all claiming to be "sunny." All except Death Valley and the Gobi desert. That was left out! Some of these are less sunnier than others. We don't need unsupported adjectives, however well-meant, in articles. We need fewer. Please find support for what is now guessed-at modifiers. Student7 (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Garden State image

An editor inserted a pic of the botanical gardens someplace to "illustrate" the Garden State. This is like taking a picture of the sun to illustrate Florida, the "Sunshine" State!  :) It is artificial. The state grew, and maybe still grows it's own food. A (smaller) picture of the farms themselves would be more illustrative IMO. Student7 (talk) 23:45, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

File:GeorgeWashington BattleofPrinceton.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Edit request from , 6 October 2011

add jersey boy to the demonym list.Shadoww:):(peaceone (talk) 09:53, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Shadoww:):(peaceone (talk) 09:53, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Jnorton7558 (talk) 17:36, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

removed from peninsulas category

I removed this page from the container category peninsulas. I'm not sure why it was there to begin with - this page isn't a subcategory, so it doesn't belong there. Besides, New Jersey is pretty clearly not a peninsula, and the page already has a link to the list of peninsulas of New Jersey.WmGB (talk) 01:39, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I believe it was there because New Jersey is a peninsula. Bordered entirely to the west by the Delaware River and Delaware Bay, to the south by the Delaware Bay and Atlantic Ocean, and to the east by the Atlantic Ocean, New York Harbor, and the Hudson River. See this map that shows it pretty clearly. It's only land connection is along the northern border with New York. Jim Miller See me | Touch me 13:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
I made the same mistake. I think the Delaware gets improbably small as you get further north. NJ looks like part of Pennsylvania there (the map exaggerates the river). Not sure how wide a river needs to be before a land mass is credibly "isolated" from the mainland, but maybe the north Delaware (or whatever it is then) isn't that wide. Student7 (talk) 11:48, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
I know its cute to call NJ a peninsula, but I would think the water level on all sides needs to be fairly similar. The Delaware River in northwestern NJ is more than 300 feet above sea level. Its hard to justify calling it a true peninsula on that basis.Famartin (talk) 04:10, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


NJ is definitely a peninsula, because it is bordered on three sides by water (the Delaware River forms the entire border with PA and is navigable up to Trenton) However, it is narrower farther north, though still a very significant land feature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.235.139.66 (talk) 20:08, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

File:NJT ALP-44.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Sunset?

Someone please remove the Sunset Photo pertaining to be from a shore location. The sun does not set in the east, and this is what a person would face looking a the Atlantic Ocean from New Jersey. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.201.224.99 (talk) 22:02, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

So, if I look west from Cape May, I am going to see the towering mountains of Delaware and not water? Student7 (talk) 20:12, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
If you look west from Sunset Beach in Cape May County, you will see the waters of the Delaware Bay. You won't see land, as the picture correctly shows (as indicated in the description) the view from the southwest corner of the NJ peninsula when looking west at sunset. Jim Miller See me | Touch me 20:49, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The local pronunciation of New Jersey is not /njuː ˈdʒɜrzi/ -- it's /nuː ˈdʒɜrzi/. The audio file also uses the latter pronunciation. Should the local pronunciation be added? Should it replace the other pronunciation? Beta.s2ph (talk) 07:35, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Atlantic City, aerial view.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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STATE HOLIDAYS

Every state article should include state holidays. NJ has extra holidays other than federal ones', such as Good Friday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.90.5.246 (talk) 19:52, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


76.19.64.156 (talk) 19:00, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Bryce (talk | contribs) 02:15, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree. New Jersey has extra holidays other than federal holidays. Here's a list of NJ State holidays that should be written on article. http://www.nj.gov/nj/about/facts/holidays/ --Maydin37622 (talk) 16:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Least annoying state

I have nothing against classifying NJ as such, but the reference is an opinion article in Spy magazine from 1996. Can we find a better reference, change this to some sort of opinion poll result, or do away with it altogether? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcaist (talk • contribs) 11:53, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Removed. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:49, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Climate

There is an unsourced statement that says that NJ experiences nor'easters in some years. This makes it seem as an unfrequent occurance when in fact, Nor'easters occur ever year. It is significant nor'easters that occur in some years, however due to NJ's location, it is a constant target of Nor'easters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.162.8.58 (talk) 16:23, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Good point. I have rewritten it to remove "in some years". --Apollo1758 (talk) 00:24, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

New Jersey in the 21st century: Only sports stuff?

Hi, check out the content of the section History / 21st century:

Originally competing at Giants Stadium before moving to adjacent MetLife Stadium in 2010, the Giants and Jets franchises felt the Meadowlands and its sports venues were outdated by today's professional sports standards. This also led to the Devils' relocation from the Izod Center to the Prudential Center in Newark at the start of the 2007–08 season. The Brooklyn Nets, also formerly based at the Izod Center, left for the Prudential Center in 2010 for two NBA seasons. The team then relocated to Brooklyn, New York at the Barclays Center for the 2012–13 season.

Seriously, are we going to put this stuff here? I mean, the other sections are talking about real history (economics, military, society...). In any case, that shouldn't go there. If there's nothing really important to put in this section (since it's only been 12 years), don't put anything. I'm not an expert in this field, so I won't summarize the article New Jersey in the 21st century myself. Somebody do it for me, or leave the section empty. Thanks--Fauban 16:18, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Center of Population

The article lists the Center of NJ's population to be Milltown, NJ which was true as of the cited 2000 census (citation #41).... However the current 2010 census now reflects East Brunswick NJ Center of Population per NJ.com news — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.21.170 (talk) 02:58, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

New Jersey as a "Sinkhole State"

I've been adding this information on each of the 5 "sinkhole" states' Economy sections. New Jersey is one of the most indebted states and I felt that including this info was valuable and timely. Feel free to revise/amend as you see fit. StickerMug (talk) 20:18, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

The "sinkhole" language seems pov,unfortunately. It would help to change that word, if nothing else. The reporting is clearly biased towards conservatism. I don't if that is wrong or not. If figures are correct, then it appears that the source is "self-proving." That is, that the sourced has proved itself to be reliable, though not necessarily well-known before. But the "sinkhole" word is definitely too pov for an encyclopedia. Student7 (talk) 21:50, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
The other problem is that NJ is the 2nd richest states and maybe can afford a higher burden than (say) Mississippi. So maybe those two phrases can be collected someplace. Student7 (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 January 2013

Vineland,New Jersey- Largest City in New Jersey. PurePowerPunk (talk) 00:41, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Do you have any kind of source for that since the page for Vineland, New Jersey shows vastly less the Newark, New Jersey? --Jnorton7558 (talk) 01:13, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
I think PurePowerPunk meant that it's the largest by area, not population. Not sure that bit of trivia's worth noting in the state article, though. --Xanzzibar (talk)
It isn't that either. According its article, Vineland, New Jersey isn't even the largest town by area in Cumberland County. --Michael Greiner 03:48, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Per the Vineland article, "Of all the municipalities in New Jersey to hold the label of 'city,' Vineland is the largest in total area (Galloway Township in Atlantic County is the largest municipality.)" Like I said, pointless trivia, just as the largest borough/township/town/village would be. --Xanzzibar (talk) 22:37, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Average Temperature

Why is Celsius listed before Fahrenheit? Can someone reverse that? 98.221.141.21 (talk) 21:44, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

You are right. Fahrenheit should be first. It can't be reversed easily because editor used a hardcoded format which doesn't lend itself to be switched easily. Anyone changing it probably ought to use standard template which contains the ability to change from one to the other. This has the added advantage of credibility which we don't have with a hard-coded table.
Have some time on your hands?  :) Student7 (talk) 22:13, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
I'm an anon and was hoping someone with the know-how and a registered account could do it. It seems like the guy who changed it had an agenda that Celsius is superior to Fahrenheit and set out to change a bunch of pages. However, the is a US article, and in the US Fahrenheit is used more commonly, so I think it should reflect what is more common in New Jersey, not someone's personal agenda.
Plus, this page is locked. So...can one of you with the ability rectify the problem? 98.221.141.21 (talk) 06:49, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Completely agree, but I just discovered a bigger issue when trying to find when the table got added. (answer: by an IP in April 2008) The source listed is just the homepage of weather.com, which isn't good. Anyone know a good place to find monthly temperature averages? --Michael Greiner 01:41, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Fun Facts/Trivia

Just as a "fun fact" I think it should be noted that New Jersey is technically the only state that is a true peninsula, having only one land border with New York in the northeast and surrounded by the Delaware River/Water Gap and the Atlantic Ocean on all other sides. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CrazyLou411 (talk • contribs) 16:10, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, we've had this discussion before, but perhaps not here. While natives may like to think so, there is some doubt that New Jersey is as "cut-off" from Pennsylvania as the (northern) Delaware River boundary would suggest. Lots of places have rivers running through them that are that wide. The definition of "peninsula" is sometimes warped by looking at a state's boundary only. A river may be a convenient boundary, but doesn't really provide the clear demarcation needed for a clear peninsula. Student7 (talk) 22:06, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Density is wrong

I don't know where each figure is sourced from, but if you divide the population provided by the area provided, you don't get the density provided. Iglew (talk) 05:36, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

I've updated it with current census figures. The disparity probably came from the infobox using a mix of 2000 and 2010/2012 data. --Xanzzibar (talk) 06:35, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Township? Or not?

There appears to be a movement afoot to drop the "Township' appended to the name of many townships in New Jersey. See Talk:Randolph,_New_Jersey. There was a poorly attended "consensus" to change a category name that reflected this. Randolph (for example) has always been known as "Randolph Township." Its schools are still called Randolph Township Schools. The websites reflect a slight difference, sometimes calling themselves "Township of.." at other times, "Randolph Township."

I think that any name-changing should be done by WP:RS, not by a "consensus" of Wikipedia editors, who think it is "too cumbersome" or whatever. My attempts at discussing this on the Randolph (recently moved) article discussion page have been ignored. Can anyone here help? Thanks. Student7 (talk) 19:23, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Scientists and engineers

I've removed a sourced claim that New Jersey has more scientists per square mile than anywhere else in the world. Trivially, this is untrue because any house where a scientist lives has a higher density of scientists. Sometimes it might be possible to make claims like this valid by changing the parameters, but it strains credulity just a little bit too much to believe that places like D.C., Singapore or Monaco (which have a general population density many times higher than New Jersey) don't beat it in this statistic as well.

If restricted to U.S. states it may well be true, because New Jersey has the highest population density of any state, but then it probably also has more refuse collectors per square mile than any other state as well. Armouredduck (talk) 16:35, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, so my deletion was immediately reverted by someone who thought the sources were reputable. Well, if reputable sources say that black is white, it still isn't, but fair enough: I decided to do some research. The claim seems to trace back to some analysis by Choose: New Jersey, which was checked by Politifact New Jersey, which inexplicably rated it true (at http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/sep/06/choose-new-jersey/new-jersey-leads-world-number-scientists-engineers/). Politifact mentions that the data for New Jersey comes from the Population Reference Bureau. Sure enough, http://www.prb.org/DataFinder/Geography/Data.aspx?loc=524 gives a figure of 260,655 in the "Science and Engineering Labor Force". And the equivalent figure for D.C., from http://www.prb.org/DataFinder/Geography/Data.aspx?loc=502, is 29,835. Divide that by the land area figures for each (from Wikipedia) and you get 29.9 scientists and engineers per square mile in New Jersey, and 436.6 in D.C. So, unless D.C. isn't a real place, New Jersey doesn't even have the most scientists and engineers per square mile in the United States.
But I'm on a roll, so I'm going to rant some more. Politifact says that the figure for New Jersey is "the highest number among all states and a list of 37 countries". That doesn't even come close to being able to justify a claim like this. Poltifact, please note: there are a lot more than 37 countries in the world. And New Jersey isn't a country, so for this claim to at least be reasonable, you'd have to get figures for the administrative divisions of the larger countries, at the very least. That's probably impractical, but that's just tough - you just can't make unjustifiable claims.Armouredduck (talk) 23:31, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
You need to take a step back and relax, and while doing it, you should review Wiki's policies on verifiability and original research. If you have a problem with PolitiFact, Choose, or any other source's methodology, ranting at them here accomplishes nothing. Grasping wildly at any reason to debunk it doesn't help, either, especially when you're boiling it down to the household level. As PolitiFact notes, "All of it came down to an apples-to-apples comparison to the extent possible between a state and country". They weren't looking to compare individual cities, Maple Street, or your cousin's house to the rest of the world. What matters here is that reliable sources have vetted this, regardless of your incredulity and labored attempts at reductio ad absurdum. Your calculations are more or less irrelevant; what can be reliably cited matters.
I'm not re-adding it since I think it's trivia and doesn't really add value to the article, but that said, all you've done here is provide the most reliable source yet for the assertion. --Xanzzibar (talk) 00:15, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply. Your concern for my need to relax is appreciated, but don't worry: my references to ranting above were largely an attempt at humour :-).
I've reviewed the policy on original research, and I think my research is permitted as a routine calculation. In fact, WP:NOTOR gives the following example: "if given the population and the size of a specific area, then the population density of that area may be included." Believe it or not, I didn't add that one myself :-). I've reviewed the policy on verifiability. I agree that the sources already quoted count as reliable, and so does the Politifact article. However, so does the data I found from the Population Reference Bureau.
Wikipedia:Verifiability says "When reliable sources disagree, present what the various sources say, give each side its due weight, and maintain a neutral point of view." So, we could keep the current claim, and add a sentence saying "However, D.C. has more" or something to that effect, quoting the sources I've mentioned above. That would be verifiable and, as I've demonstrated, would not be a breach of Wikipedia:OR. But I don't think it would be helpful, and in fact I don't think that the "give each side its due weight" policy can really apply here, because this is a matter of fact, not opinion. I think the simplest thing to do is not to have a claim which is demonstrably false. So, as an interim step, I will change it from a claim which is demonstrably false to one which is actually supported by the Politifact article. However, I do *not* accept this as a compromise - I think the claim is misleading and should be removed. I'll go into why if and when we can establish that my latest change is an improvement, unless of course I forget about this altogether :-) Armouredduck (talk) 02:55, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
Xanzzibar, you have criticised my edit as using weasel words. WP:WEASEL says "Weasel words are statements which appear to assert something but subtly imply something different, opposite, or stronger in the way they are made. " I don't see it. What do you think I'm subtly implying? I am open to persuasion or to compromise if there's a compromise to be made, but I'm afraid you simply haven't persuaded me. I'm also prepared to submit to a consensus if the consensus is that we should retain the quote even though I feel I've demonstrated it to be false and provided sources to back up that assertion, and now that I've made my case, if you and User:Castncoot are still agreed and nobody will back me up, I'm prepared to back down even if you can't convince me. Armouredduck (talk) 01:20, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
It's weasely because that's not what the sources actually say, and you've softened it ("most" countries). You've yet to provide a source that shows any state or country has a higher density. I'm sure you can find an engineering dorm room that has a density of 400,000+/sq. mile, but that's a level of resolution the sources aren't looking at.--Xanzzibar (talk) 03:11, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your comment. I would argue that my edit does reflect what the Politifact source says: it says that the comparison was made against "all states and a list of 37 countries". In fact, by saying "most", I've hardened the claim rather than softened it: 37 countries is not most countries. I think I've made a reasonable assumption, but to strictly follow this source, we'd have to say "many" countries. I'm agreed that no U.S. state has a higher density, and I think it would probably be difficult to prove that another country has a higher density without genuinely staying into the realms of original research, because it would be impossible to compare like with like (the data for New Jersey, and D.C., was compiled by an organisation which based its figures on the US census). But I would draw your attention to WP:BURDEN which states that it is the responsibility of the person trying to add or reinstate a claim to prove it.
Your point that there is a level of resolution the sources were looking at is, I think, a good one. That level clearly didn't extend to your engineering dorm room, or (more relevantly) to D.C. Nor, apparently, did it extend to any countries except the 37 CNJ could find data for. What I'm currently trying to do is to ensure that the claim (if it remains) reflects the analysis the source actually did, rather than their own inaccurate summary of it. Your comparison to the coastline paradox is also instructive. Articles like Lake Superior that mention shore length as a measure have a footnote by it saying that it is not well-defined. That's more or less what I was trying to do - just provide some idea to readers that the claim was not to be taken too literally. Or, better yet (in my opinion) alter it so that it *could* be taken literally. Armouredduck (talk) 00:07, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
WP:BURDEN is met by citing sources; in this case, we have several vetting it. You take exception to their methodology (or at least the thoroughness), and I appreciate that. However, the specific claim they're affirming is "more scientists and engineers per square mile than anywhere in the world", not "most of the world". It's not our job to dissect it and peer review it, only to report the conclusion. As I mentioned, I'm not that keen on including this bit of trivia (I'm not convinced that scientist density is actually telling of anything), but it's properly cited. That's the key thing. --Xanzzibar (talk)
Readding it. I'm satisfied it meets Wikipedia's threshold for reliability, and I believe it is constructive content.

Castncoot (talk) 23:39, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Regions? Neighboring States?

Just skimming through there seems to be something important missing and I'm not sure how to put it. Parts of New Jersey are very tied in with a culture, economy, and media market centered around a city in another state,or are considered parts of a region including other states. Parts of northern NJ are considered parts of the "Greater NY City Area" or, put differently, NJ is one of the three states in the "Tristate Area". There seems to be a similar relationship between Philadelphia and the pars of NJ closest to it. I was hoping to learn if folks in parts of NJ close to Delaware feel special ties to places in Delaware, but I didn't notice anything about any of this. I think this is an important aspect of the state but I'm not sure where you'd put the information or just how you might from it. Discussion the NYC and Philly media markets in the media section might be a starting place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.92.84 (talk) 15:48, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

That's a good suggestion. Help is on the way. Rutgers (the land-grant state university in New Jersey) is beginning a Wikimedia Scholar in Residence project, and quite a few scholars there will be looking at resources available in the Rutgers libraries to update Wikipedia articles about New Jersey and its history. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 18:13, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

No battle during Civil War? NJ doesn't have a lot of things

An editor has reinstalled an uncited phrase, "unlike many states, including some Northern ones, no [Civil War] battle was fought there. [citation needed]"

First, there is a lot of things that Wikipedia is not. It is not a collection of things that a place or person is not. NJ doesn't have a DisneyWorld, doesn't have a naval militia, doesn't have a former governor whose last name begins with "X", Elvis Presley wasn't born there, ad infinitum. An article (and a place or person) is defined by what it does or is or has or was that is different from other states.

Also, lists this long become hard to maintain. Easier to maintain what NJ is, uniquely. When a new fact arises, we know where to look. We don't look at the other 49 states and insert, "Arizona doesn't contain a city like Bayonne."

It is not cited because no WP:RS is going to have any statement like that. Most Northern States did not have a "battle" on them, except (notably), Pennsylvania and probably Maryland. Two out of what? Two dozen? This is not encyclopedic and should be rm. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 17:40, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Reinstatement of pov "only"s

I made a routine deletion of pov "only"s, leaving those that made sense such as "New Jersey is the only state to..." type sentence. I did rm onlys where they tried to make a WP:POV point. "Only" emit x.x% emmisions. No criteria for deciding whether this was good or bad, the decision left up to the editor NOT to the reader. With data, the reader should be drawing these conclusions her/himself. Wikipedia should not "lead" the reader. There were about a dozen in both categories: npov/pov. An editor reverted the npov ones back to being pov. See, for example, discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Words_to_avoid/Archive_5#Only.2C_just. Student7 (talk) 20:57, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Pretty clear that it is WP:POV to qualify data using adjectives or adverbs. Words should be "qualified" using other data to be npov. Student7 (talk) 19:03, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Comparative onlys?

@Oknazevad:. If I say "You are the only editor to have said this"(proper cite), that may be an acceptable sentence.

If, however, I say, "You have told me this only five times," that is npov comparative, even with a proper cite. There is no balancing information to surmise if "five" is a low number or a high one. There is just the pov word, "only," implying that five isn't very many. In proper context of actual values, it may represent a lot. The information should be furnished so the reader can make up her/his own mind. As an encyclopedia, we should not be "leading" the reader, as the media does, routinely. That's one of the major differences between "us" and "them." Student7 (talk) 20:10, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2015

The Ice Age link under History, §1 should be changed to Wisconsin glaciation because, while not incorrect, it is misleading and spreads the confusion between ice age and glacial period. Also, the History of New Jersey page refers directly to the Wisconsin glaciation. Cpnredbeard (talk) 18:47, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Done--Xanzzibar (talk) 20:53, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2016


The statement "New Jersey is home to more scientists and engineers per square mile than anywhere else in the world" should be changed to "New Jersey is home to more scientists and engineers per square mile than anywhere else in the US" which is more likely to be correct and actually what the primary if somewhat ambiguous source argues.

Note that the primary sources argument is that population density makes this the case and there are many fully industrialized nations with higher average numbers of engineers and scientists with cities i.e (tokyo) with higher population density.

Midjji (talk) 06:51, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done: Both the initial advertisement and the PolitiFact analysis (which is a secondary source) use the "world" phrasing. The PolitiFact analysis goes into more detail on the methodology (they're basically comparing states to other states and countries). --Xanzzibar (talk) 15:48, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 November 2016

2620:65:8000:A203:18A1:EE48:24D:D32A (talk) 21:20, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

NJ is the abbreviation of Nanjing,please not redirect of NJ.

Not done: A hatnote is at the top of the page showing the disambiguation page for NJ. If you feel this is still an issue, discuss it here, just not in a semi-protected edit request. JTP (talk • contribs) 23:08, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2017

Please remove one had in: claimed that the other side had had unqualified women vote QuanticEdit (talk) 16:19, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Note: The first word (had) is an auxilliary which helps to understand the tense. The second word (had) here refers to the main action/ verb of possessing something. regards, DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 17:05, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
Not done: Due to response. Marking as answered. JTP (talk • contribs) 20:28, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Lowest point is Atlantic Ocean? That can't be right.

It's well known that large segments of Hoboken are below sea level, for instance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:86:202:2730:7D55:5269:858C:FA46 (talk) 16:09, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

It may be well-known, but it's apparently not accurate. The USGS, as cited, puts the lowest point in NJ at sea level. Quickly skimming through other sources, none of them claim any part of Hoboken is lower than a couple feet above sea level, either: [2][3][4] --Xanzzibar (talk) 18:04, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, Hoboken is low so it floods easily, but none of it is below sea level. I also dispute the idea that it's a well known error in the first place; never seen or heard such a claim until this post, and I'm not just a lifelong NJ resident, but I've taught environmental science as well. oknazevad (talk) 20:34, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2017

Mltruax89 (talk) 19:40, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

|Languages =

@Mltruax89: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Murph9000 (talk) 22:44, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

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Link spam

I found this attorney's link spam "<ref name=PatersonSocSec>"Paterson Social Security Attorney or Advocate". Social Security Disability Help. Retrieved December 3, 2016" inserted at the bottom of this section of the article...

Little Ramallah in Paterson is an increasingly popular destination for Muslim immigrants.<ref name=PatersonSocSec>"Paterson Social Security Attorney or Advocate". Social Security Disability Help. Retrieved December 3, 2016.

--Joshgraham56 (talk) 16:05, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Oknazevad (talk · contribs) has fixed it. Leschnei (talk) 17:09, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

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