Talk:Beersheba fragment with menorah depiction

Requested move 22 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Beersheba fragment with menorah depiction. There is some consensus that the article should be move, however, no clear consensus on the final article title as there is also proponents for a merge to a generic article of title yet to be determined. While the generic article is being written, per WP:BARTENDER, the article will be moved to Beersheba fragment with menorah depiction. When the generic article has been written, feel free to redirect. – robertsky (talk) 14:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

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Oil Lamp Fragment → Oldest depiction of a menorah – "Oil Lamp Fragment" is a very generic "name" which doesn't seem to be in use as the name of this fragment. Wikipedia shouldn't invent new names for things which lack a name, but instead use a descriptive title. I had moved an older version of this page to Oldest depiction of a menorah without a redirect (as I consider it a very unlikely search term for this specific object), but it was recreated. I would suggest to move this over to the new name, without a redirect from the current name. Fram (talk) 16:27, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello,

I don't think "Oldest depiction of a menorah" would be accurate, as older artifacts are commonly found. DutchPatriot (talk) 17:40, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Feel free to suggest a better name! Fram (talk) 08:18, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

• Beersheba Menorah Fragment
• Beersheba Fragment
• Menorah Fragment
• Menorah Oil Lamp Fragment

DutchPatriot (talk) 12:59, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Beersheba menorah depiction may be a good one. Please don't capitalize all words unless it is an actual title and not a description. Fram (talk) 13:12, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

1. Ok👍

2. I personally like the title "Beersheba Menorah Fragment", how about changing it to that? If you don't like it, use your idea. I don't want any unnecessary problems, especially when it's my page. DutchPatriot (talk) 16:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

• Merge to Temple menorah. No idea why we even have a separate article about this. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

  This article is about Jewish/Israeli Archaeology. Merging it with the Temple menorah article wouldn't make any sense. DutchPatriot (talk) 17:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

  Of course it would. The current three-sentence article is utterly pointless given this tiny fragment doesn't even have a proper name, hence the RM. We don't have articles on every archaeological fragment ever found; nor should we. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:39, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

  I understand that this article is too short, I will try to improve it.

  • This is one of the oldest depictions of a menorah and should therefore be mentioned in a separate article.

  DutchPatriot (talk) 14:10, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

  Does that mean that the earliest depiction of every conceivable thing should have a separate article? That would be one hell of a lot of articles on archaeological fragments! I really don't think it's necessary. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:23, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

  I mean, there have been several articles written about it because of its "unique" appearance. Also, the Temple menorah has 7 branches. DutchPatriot (talk) 14:42, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

  So merge it to Hanukkah menorah! But one of those articles is the best place for it. If it was that significant it would have been given a unique name. Basically, it's just a footnote in the history of the menorah, not notable in its own right. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:52, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

  Sorry I was unclear. This isn't a hanukkiah either. DutchPatriot (talk) 15:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

  (According to the Israel Antiquities Authority)

  "This is probably one of the earliest artistic depictions of a nine-branched menorah yet discovered. Of the few oil lamps discovered which depict menorahs, none of them have the traditional seven branches. This is because of a ruling in the Babylonian Talmud which stated that only the temple menorah itself could have seven branches. Because of this, lamps used in domestic settings commonly had between eight to eleven branches."

  • I expanded this article and added more information.

  DutchPatriot (talk) 15:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

  I think we need a generic article on Menorah! -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:37, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, I agree. DutchPatriot (talk) 15:33, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• My preference would be to move to Beersheba fragment with menorah depiction. The title is on the long side, and might be a bit unwieldy, but I think it's the clearest way to balance the following considerations: (1) the item is a fragment of an archaeological object; (2) the depiction of a menorah on the fragment is central to its notability; (3) the fragment itself is a fragment of an oil lamp, not a menorah. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:25, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
• Merge to a generic "Menorah" article. BD2412 T 00:32, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.