|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Psychedelic drug article.|
|WikiProject Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants||(Rated Start-class)|
- 1 Picture text modified
- 2 Picture
- 3 Salvia
- 4 Definition of "psychedlic" according to pharmacologists
- 5 Edits to the First Paragraph (Tryptamines & Phenethylamines)
- 6 Vs. Psychoactive??
- 7 Abuse potential vs toxicity for psychedelics
- 8 This webpage is very badly organized, and should be expanded or merged with the hallucinogens page.
Picture text modified
Replaced with a more proper one: "A fractal pattern, similar in some respects to what may some people stereotipically associates with a psychedelic experience".
Is the picture...relevant? The caption reads 'A fractal pattern, similar in some respects to what may be seen during a psychedelic experience' but without being an expert in psychiatry, it strikes me that pretty much anything 'may be seen during a psychedelic experience' 126.96.36.199 (talk) 15:23, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
- I agree with you, this picture seems to be totally useless. Why don't put a picture of a pink elephant instead? Some folks see pink elephants when high on drugs. Bah! Remove the picture. --Δ Mr. Nighttime Δ (talk) 14:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
My name is JP. I apologize beforehand if I do not follow the accepted protocol for expressing my opinion about this page. I think that talkheader has a valid point: if we want to put a picture with the caption "A fractal pattern, similar in some respects to what may be seen during a psychedelic experience" we should probably probably be able to cite a source which backs up our claims... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 09:02, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
- I would agree that both kaleidoscopic and fractal patterns are a stereotypical visual effect of "psychedelic" drugs. While not everyone experiences this, and those who do may not always (or even often) experience them, there is scientific evidence to support that this patterning is innate to how both the optical nerve system and visual cortex function. Whether or not this system becomes over-stimulated, the brain itself becomes flooded with visual information, or a little of both is uncertain. --Thoric (talk) 21:55, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Salvia is a dissociative as mentioned in its own page and in the main psychedelics, dissociatives and deliriants page. It should not really be on the psychedelics page as this just adds to the popular misconception that it is a psychedelic as opposed to a dissociative. Maybe it could be replaced with a section on how high dose dissociatives often produce similar effects to psychedelics and so can be confused, an interesting example being Salvia whose active ingredient Salvinorin A is so potent that these effects are often noticed even with a small dose. Any thoughts? -Matt
- Agreed. I didn't notice that someone added salvia here when it is already on the dissociative drug page. --Thoric (talk) 21:44, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
- A mention of high doses of dissociatives producing psychedelic effects may be worthwhile, but as a psychedelic user & enthusiast (as opposed to a psychopharmacologist, though I aspire to become one) I'd consider Salvia divinorum to be a psychedelic, myself (& one of the few exceptions to the tryptamine/phenethylamine rule I mentioned in one of the sections below).
Definition of "psychedlic" according to pharmacologists
I'm quite sure that's not true. I'm sure enough that instead of putting a citation needed tag, I'm cutting it out and replacing it with something accurate.AlkaloidMan (talk) 08:05, 31 October 2010 (UTC)AlkaloidMan
Edits to the First Paragraph (Tryptamines & Phenethylamines)
I added the following sentence to the end of the first paragraph:
"With a few exceptions, most psychedelic drugs fall into one of the two following families of chemical compounds; tryptamines [more specifically: alkylated tryptamines], and phenethylamines [more specifically: alkoxylated phenethylamines]."
I find this statement to be true; Cannabis & its psychoactive compounds (namely Δ9-THC, CBD, & CBN), as well as Salvia divinorum, are among the few exceptions... but almost all of the 200+ psychedelic compounds fall into one of those two categories. Even LSD, despite technically being an ergoline compound, contains a tryptamine backbone (hence its 5-HT receptor agonist effects).
I also edited the following sentence within the first paragraph:
...as the page religious fervor does not exist. If anyone wishes to dispute this, please let me know. I am aware that not all psychedelic-induced religious experiences are ecstatic, but I could not find an existing page which was a sufficient synonym for religious fervor, so I went with religious ecstasy. If others insist, we can change it back, despite the page religious fervor being nonexistent... perhaps somebody could create one for it.
- (Psychonaut25 - 13355p34k / C0n7r1b5 12:35 AM EST, 21 May 2013 (UTC))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug Should that article and this one be merged? Aren't they about the same thing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 05:14, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Abuse potential vs toxicity for psychedelics
I just made this illustration in latex. Maybe something like this should be on this webpage?
This webpage is very badly organized, and should be expanded or merged with the hallucinogens page.
The general psychological effects section should be removed (or reduced), because from having experience with different types of psychedelics (5HT2A receptor agonists, NMDA receptor antagonists and κ-Opioid receptor agonists) I think the experiences are very different. Maybe you should have a very small section describing the general criterias for defining a drug as a psychedelic (for example hallucinatory effects), but much more empathesis should be put on the psychological effects of different receptor interactions. I also think you could devide the general effects section into sections like "psychedelics and spirituality", "psychedelic act", "chemistry of psychedelics", "psychedelics and drug abuse", "possible adverse effects of psychedelics", and so on. And why hasn't this page been merged with the hallucinogens page? Zanthius (talk) 14:07, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- This page focuses on one section of the Hallucinogens page, which is broken down into psychedelic drug, dissociative drug and deliriant. It may need expansion, but should not be merged. Also, as dissociative drug has its own article, the dissociative drug section does not belong in the psychedelic drug article. --Thoric (talk) 23:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Really? Because it is written about dissociative drugs on this webpage, but I think it is inaccurate to put κ-opioid receptor agonists and NMDA receptor antagonists into the same group (dissociatives). Rather you should use a 4 group system. 5H2A receptor agonists as psychedelics, NMDA receptor antagonists as dissociatives, anticholinergics as deleriants, and κ-Opioid receptor agonists as dysphoriants. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 16:32, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Salvia D. is considered to be more dissociative than a dysphoriant. A substance does not have to be an NMDA antagonist to be a dissociative. --Thoric (talk) 18:34, 18 March 2015 (UTC)