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Requested move 18 August 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus (non-admin closure) Havelock Jones (talk) 13:35, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Quinton Jackson → Rampage Jackson – Might be a bit of a stretch, but on most UFC and Bellator promotional material, and from a large amount of sources, he is commonly referred to as Rampage Jackson. ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 00:07, 18 August 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Bada Kaji (talk • श्रीमान् गम्भीर) 18:53, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

vs. Fedor Emelianenko at Bellator 237

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@NEDOCHAN: @Cassiopeia: Alright here is why I believe the fight result should be listed as KO. I think this table shows a consensus that the majority of the sources have it listed as KO. (Reminder: Sherdog is NOT the only source you can use for fight results, so throw that argument out of the window.)

Source method (KO) ref Source method (TKO) ref
mmajunkie.usatoday.com KO [1] mmafighting.com TKO [2]
sportingnews.com knockout [3] sherdog.com (fighter records) TKO (punches) [4]
mmamania.com KO [5]
bleacherreport.com KO (punches) [6] The Athletic TKO [7]
cagesidepress.com KO (Right Straight) [8]
lowkickmma.com KO (punches) [9]
middleeasy.com KO [10]
combatpress.com KO (right cross) [11]

♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 11:11, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Bellator 237 results: Fedor Emelianenko hands 'Rampage' Jackson first KO loss in 14 years". MMA Junkie. 2019-12-29. Retrieved 2022-01-22.
  2. ^ Newswire, MMA Fighting (2019-12-28). "Bellator 237 Results: Fedor vs. Rampage". MMA Fighting. Retrieved 2022-01-22.
  3. ^ "Bellator 237 results: Fedor Emelianenko knocks out Quinton 'Rampage' Jackson in first round". www.sportingnews.com. Retrieved 2022-01-22.
  4. ^ Sherdog.com. "Quinton". Sherdog. Retrieved 2022-01-22.
  5. ^ stevejuon (2019-12-28). "LIVE! Bellator 237 Results, Streaming Play-By-Play Updates". MMAmania.com. Retrieved 2022-01-22.
  6. ^ Kasabian, Paul. "Bellator and Rizin Japan 2019 Results: Emelianenko, Chandler Score Knockout Wins". Bleacher Report. Retrieved 2022-01-22.
  7. ^ Staff, The Athletic. "Fedor Emelianenko returning to Bellator for Oct. 23 bout in Moscow". The Athletic. Retrieved 2022-01-22.
  8. ^ Doherty, Dan (2019-12-29). "Bellator 237 Results: Fedor Emelianenko Ends Career With First Round KO". Cageside Press. Retrieved 2022-01-22.
  9. ^ Fuentes, Jon (2019-12-28). "Bellator 237 Results: Fedor Emelianenko Ends Quinton Jackson". Retrieved 2022-01-22.
  10. ^ Vlad, Author Vladimir (2019-12-29). "Bellator 237 Results: Fedor Emelianenko Batters Rampage Jackson, Announces Retirement (Highlights)". MiddleEasy. Retrieved 2022-01-22. {{cite web}}: |first= has generic name (help)
  11. ^ "Bellator Japan Results: Fedor Knocks Out Rampage; Chandler, MVP Score Impressive Knockouts". Combat Press. Retrieved 2022-01-22.
All depends where you look. https://www.dazn.com/en-GLOBAL/news/boxing/rampage-jackson-on-shannon-briggs-i-gotta-shut-his-old-ass-up/qq05bhygs5s11tyutts9v85yw

https://theathletic.com/news/fedor-emelianenko-returning-to-bellator-for-oct-23-bout-in-moscow/bYjekI49jipo/

Anyway, there is a note indicating the discrepancy and consensus as well as the main source seem to indicate TKO.NEDOCHAN (talk) 11:41, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is no "main source" Sherdog holds the same value as any other source (except in the case of tiebreakers in which it will be used). It's simply the standard, but just because it is the standard doesn't mean it's correct and we aren't allowed to change it, that would go against several wiki policies. Also my sources were from the first two pages of Google results for the search term: "Bellator 237 results". ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 11:58, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Reverting other editors in favour of your preferred version is against consensus, itself a core policy of Wikipedia. See WP: CONSENSUS.NEDOCHAN (talk) 12:38, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's.. why I created this on the talk page. And with all due respect theres really only a consensus from you and Cass, the others were one time edits likely following this scenario: "oh hey this result on Sherdog isnt the same as the one on the wiki, better change it". ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 13:24, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To establish a proper consensus, we need an actual discussion not edit warring which is what I'm trying to do here. If youd like to ping and bring in other editors I'm fine with that. ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 13:27, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Totally agree. My view is that Sherdog is correct. Definitely a TKO. He was shaking his head to stop the onslaught. I've been more unconscious after a night out than Rampage was.NEDOCHAN (talk) 21:16, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@NEDOCHAN and RafaelHP: Good day. I have removed some sources that are not reliable or from the same source and add one from NEDOCHAN (theathletic). The point is we use Sherdog as the standard/default for the fight results but if a lot of independent, reliable sources (IRS) state the fight results different, then we use the later. If there is a tiebreak from IRS indicate different method, the we will use Sherdog. Consensus when there is a dispute or disagreements on body text / guidelines but IRS is about verification so we always use IRS. NEDOCHAN, unfortunately, Wikipedia is not about the truth - see Wikipedia:But it's true! but about verification. Example, if the IRS indicate MR. XXX has 2 sons but in reality he has 3 sons, we will put 2 sons in the body text. We will only change the info + source when the source change themselves (dont need to be the same source), but when when there is a contradiction of info from different sources, we either (1) put both info in as per BALANCE and DUE (this usually about different view such as capital punishment - political view, cause of death of the subject such as Alexander the Great died from poison / from fighting wounds) and etc.) However, in fight method we dont indicate two different methods, we use the best independent, reliable source - Sherdog but since this is Wikipedia we need to use the method that is most indicate by the IRS. So in this case since more source indicate KO then KO it is. I hope this is the last resort or super necessary to change the method from Sherdog, for there will be so many discussion and edit warring which we dont need at the best. Stay safe and best. Cassiopeia talk 22:30, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's the problem though with Sherdog being the standard, even if we prove that the IRS majority has it as X result instead of Sherdog's Z result, there we always be people who will revert it back to Z result because they either believe Sherdog is "the only source" for fight results or they don't know policy. ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 23:49, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@NEDOCHAN and RafaelHP: NO, that is the other way around. Most cases Sherdog is right and Sherdog is the bigger mma database in the world and have been around the longest and know about mma industry but if you dont have a default that would be edit warring left and right and endless discussions lead to fighting among mma editors and IP editors (as you can see even with KO there are differences in (punch, punches, strikes, right cross, right straight, knockdown - and that would lead to another edit warrings and discussion of the subset KO method), instead of contributing and working together the results would be infighting (also they dont understand Wikipedia guidelines) and this one of the reasons many mma editors left Wikipedia and not only a handful of mma editors really work together. Cassiopeia talk 23:59, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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