Talk:St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie

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GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 09:27, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Comments

  • "Known locally as the Buckie Cathedral, ..." this sentence has too many run-on clauses for easy reading.
OK - I've cut the final clause about the donation of the land, and added another sentence mentioning Kyle the designer to put alongside the Baron's donation of the land.
  • "13th Century Gothic style" don't capitalise "Century".
I've added a few more links, let me know if you think I've gone overboard
  • "The church is richly " perhaps clarify, "The interior of the church is..."?
  • Any ideas of the dimensions of any of the things you're describing, e.g. you say "thick" but we don't really have a context for that.
Mmm. Not really I'm afraid, without conducting some WP:OR with a tape measure - I'm just going off the descriptions in the sources. Do you want me to lose some of the adjectives?
No, fair enough, if there are no reliable sources out there which even cover basics like the external dimensions of the church, fair enough, what can you do? The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:39, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Did a bit more searching. I found a diameter for the rose window (not sure about the RSness of the source, but it's not exactly a controversial assertion), but not much else.
  • "the the First World War," one too many "the" (remove the one in the pipe!).
oops
  • We generally write Stations of the Cross (cap S and cap C).
  • "frames.[4][1] The " numerical order for refs please.
Thanks for that - I hadn't thought about ordering before, but I agree it looks much tidier with them in the right order. I think I've got some work to do on my other articles now...
Good point - I've directed it to the section on the restored Catholic succession.
Ooh - nice find, I missed that one.
  • "to donate some land " some isn't doing anything here.
  • "emancipation in Scotland.[5][3] " numerical order again.
  • "extended by Charles Ménart," I think it's worth introducing him as a "the Belgian architect" for context.
  • "and designed the italian marble high altar[4] and" (a) Italian (b) awkward ref placement (c) and ... and... can we rephrase?
OK - fixed Italian, moved ref to end of sentence, and reworded a bit to lose the repetitiveness
  • "The ornate[1] marble war" a single-sentence para, avoid, and I would move all those refs to the end of the sentence. In fact, the last three paras are all single-sentence which should be avoided, looks like a collection of bullet points without the bullets...
I've attached the first of these sentences to the end of the previous paragraph (since chronologically it happened shortly after Menart's work); the other two (about more recent stuff) I've combined into a single paragraph, and changed the wording of the sentence about the organ so that it's clearer why it belongs after the one about the listing.
  • "The organ presently installed..." we try to avoid "presently", see WP:PRECISELANG.
Fair enough. I was trying to convey the idea that there was another organ in the church originally, but I see your point. Gone.
  • "Current Usage" per WP:HEAD should be "Current usage"
  • Avoid SHOUTING in the ref titles.
Darn it - I'm just copy/pasting from the website titles, didn't know I should be typing them out manually to avoid that :(
  • Avoid spaced hyphens (e.g. ref titles 3 & 7) should be an en-dash per MOS:DASH.
(See previous comment!)
  • Ref 8 appears to repeat work and publisher. Can we check that?
The name of the website is the same as that of the organisation that publishes it - Scotland's Churches Trust. I checked that that's their official name, and it seems to be from their 'About us' page. Anything else you want me to do here?
If it was me choosing, I'd normally opt for either a website, or a publisher, but not both, particularly if they're the same, as it does look a wee bit odd to me...
OK, I've removed the 'publisher' field. I generally try to fill in as many fields as I can in the 'Cite web' template box, just for the sake of completeness. I'll make a mental note not to add the publisher in future if it's identical to the name of the website.

The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:39, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's the sum total of my thoughts on a quick read through. I'll put the nomination on hold while we go through these. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:27, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for these suggestions @The Rambling Man:, I've acted on most of them, but a couple of comments/questions above. GirthSummit (blether) 17:47, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Couple of responses! The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:39, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
​ Thanks - I've changed the ref to remove the repetition, and found a figure for the diameter of the rose window (it's something I suppose...). GirthSummit (blether) 19:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work, short but sweet and covers the major bases suitably, so happy to promote. Let me know if you need any help with reviews in future, should you consider my input of use of course! Cheers, The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 19:44, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, @The Rambling Man: - I really appreciate the advice (and the promotion!). You've made a few things clear to me that will help me with articles in the future. This has been very helpful, and as I said when I asked you for the review, your input into articles of mine at DYK has always been fantastic - I'll definitely come back for more! Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 20:09, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thumbs up icon The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 20:10, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:45, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(
)
The Buckie Cathedral, viewed from the sea
The Buckie Cathedral, viewed from the sea
  • ... that the small town of Buckie in Moray has its own cathedral (pictured)? Source: "With its unusual twin towers, visible for many miles from land and sea, this church has long been known locally as 'The Buckie Cathedral'." (Historic Environment Scotland listing document
    • ALT1:... that James Kyle, Roman Catholic bishop of Aberdeen, designed his own cathedral (pictured) in the small town of Buckie in Moray? Source: "Bishop James Kyle and A and W Reid, architects, Elgin, 1850-57" (same source as previous hook)
    • ALT2:... that James Kyle, Roman Catholic bishop of Aberdeen, designed a parish church so grand that it is known locally as the Buckie cathedral (pictured)? Source: "Bishop James Kyle and A and W Reid, architects, Elgin, 1850-57" (same source as previous hook)

Improved to Good Article status by Girth Summit (talk). Self-nominated at 16:04, 17 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]

  • Approved as a GA on 16 August, nom on 17th, within 1 day. 4502 char, long enough. Neutral. No apparent copyvios. Cited. QPQ done. Hook 1 72 chars, short enough. (I initially thought that the wording "known locally" was odd, and that the hook seemed run of the mill, as every town here in Yucatán, with population of more than 10 it seems, has a huge and highly decorative cathedral, but then it occurred to me the wording suggested that it might not be a cathedral, so I learned something and all those fabulous churches aren't cathedrals). The cited source says it is "known locally" as a cathedral, which made me wonder if it was one? Without understanding what the difference between a "Vicars Apostolic" and a "Bishop" it still seems apparent that Kyle's official association ("seat") was in Aberdeen, thus the church had no bishop and was technically just a church.[1],[2] I notice Ian had the same comment in the history, so I think I am right and it doesn't appear to actually be a cathedral. To me the 2nd hook (126 chars within limit) is the more interesting, but again we have the problem that the church, while built in the style of a cathedral, is not one. If one were to change cathedral to church in the initial hook, it would be a totally mundane statement, but I think changing it in the second one makes little difference, as what is interesting is that he designed and built his own house of worship. I'll be happy to look at a hook about him basing a design on a ruined cathedral or something about the Catholic Relief Act, if you want to change the hook entirely. Please ping me. SusunW (talk) 20:26, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hi SusunW - you're absolutely right, it isn't technically a cathedral, since no bishop has their seat there. I thought we might be able to stretch the use of the word since it's been called that locally since it was built (as evidenced by the local newspaper's announcement when it opened). How about the new wording I've proposed in Alt2 above? cheers GirthSummit (blether) 08:14, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That works and is 136 chars. GTG Girth Summit. Thank you so much. Really enjoyed reading the article. SusunW (talk) 14:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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