Talk:Stella Artois

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Stella is lager, but NOT Pilsner![edit]

Ok, I am a home brewer so I am a bit of a style Nazi. Stella 5.0% as I have in front of me contains maize along with malted barley, water, yeast and hops. That means that Stella Artois is an American Pilsner from Belgium, not a Continental Lager as Wikipedia states or a Pilsner as the bottle states. I suggest we change the article to classify Stella as a Continental Classic American Pilsner Style lager. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyral (talkcontribs) 16:51, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Is the above comment a spoof? I genuinely can't tell.FrFintonStack (talk) 16:34, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I am also a home brewer. If you read the BJCP guidelines, it's a typical Pale Continental Lager, many of which contain maize or wheat. German "lagers" are made to the reinheitsgebot purity laws permitting only malted barley, but outside Germany - particularly in the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Austria, non-barley adjuncts are widely used. American breweries used maize to dilute the diastatic power of the old time six row American barleys to prevent hazes in the beers - different story altogether. --MichaelGG (talk) 05:18, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Invented history[edit]

"the Artois brewery was established in 1366" Spurious. One brewer buys out another, so that's a "history." This is no more historic than Budweiser. Anyone who knows anything about the history of beer can tell you: that was quite a different brew in 1326. You could just as well say some "Old Sumerian" beer brewed in southern Iraq is 4000 years old.... Now, as for the history of this modern marketing gambit: that's interesting! that's history! --Wetman 12:00, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

On the other hand: Wheat, barley and water change over time as well. if I brewed [specific beer recipe] in 1366 and 2007 using the same recipe, i could, hypothetically end up with 2 very different products.Tallrichard2 07:34, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Is it even possible that they used the same recipe back in 1366? I know they say so in their current commercial, but I thought maize came from the americas, and Columbus didn't get there until 1492... SKR (talk) 21:22, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

"Oliver Adams, of Lords of Acid, is heir to the stella fortune.." I find this highly suspect, if one reads the cited article on the Lords of Acid website, it seems pretty obvious that it's a made up biography for entertainment purposes. Also, last I checked, the last names Adams and Busch have nothing in common! Blismblasm (talk) 17:36, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Here is where the 1366 comes from. The original brewery in Louvain that led to the creation of Stella Artois was called "Den Hoorn". In English this translates to "The Horn", hence the cornucopia or "horn of plenty" on the label. The city tax register shows the local taxes paid by that brewery dating as far back as 1366. Sebastian Artois became master brewer of Den Hoorn in 1708 and ended up purchasing the entire brewery in 1717, at which point he changed the name to "Brouwerij Artois". The brewery made several different beers over the centuries, until it launched a pilsner style beer for Christmas 1926 called Stella. This then became the flagship now known as "Stella Artois". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 17.102.5.240 (talk) 20:27, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Wifebeater...[edit]

I assumed Stella Artois is called "wifebeater" because of the Tennessee Williams play "A Streetcar Named Desire", where the male lead character (Stanley Kowalski) repeatedly bellows his wife's name "STELLA!", and also beats her. unsigned comment

I always thought it was because it's such a popular, drinkable yet strong brand of beer, a drunk man beating his wife was likely to be under its influence. At best, I think we can agree that the origins of this moniker are obscure. I will add that domestic violence is a serious subject and my comments are not intended to make light of it. - Smallbone10

A possible explaination for the nickname "wifebeater" is that Stella Artois has a reputation as "loony juice"; that is, an alcoholic drink which induces violent drunken behaviour rather than making it's drinker tired and emotional in the usual style. White cider (and in fact cider in general), certain wines and other more low-brow super-strength lagers also have this trait; however, the fact Stella Artois is relatively expensive keeps it out of the price range of the underage drinkers and alcoholics which form the majority of the people who purchase the other types of loony juice. Stella Artois tends to be a more middle-class drink, consumed by social drinkers with jobs and families (i.e people who have wives to beat), who probably have never even seen a bottle of Diamond White or Heldenbrau since they were teenagers. Therefore, "wifebeater" is probably a middle-class nickname applied by people who associate Stella with marital violence. They would probably call white cider "wifebeater" if they actually lowered themselves to drinking it.

- Stella is not a 'Middle Class' drink. It is 6 cans for £5 in virtually every cornershop. It is the standard drink sold at squat parties and is sold in every pub I drink in. JD Weatherspoons (a very down market pub chain) sells bottles of it to all the chav youths in my local area. 62.3.70.68 18:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, it's not a nickname I've ever heard in my part of the country (Merseyside if you're interested), although Stella does have something of a reputation around here as the casual cocaine user's choice of lager, probably because it provides an extra kick to the coke high whereas other lagers, like Carling, tend to take the edge off slightly. Most house parties involving copious cocaine use will often start off with several crates of Stella being consumed while the lines are out, and will move through spirits and finally onto Carling and other weaker lagers when the cocaine has run out and all that's left is weed and sledging.

As a Frenchman, used to seeing stella artois among the common brands of local beer, I must say that I never heard of this nickname before reading the article. I suspect it was made up especially for the film, and apparently, it took hold among English speakers with no brand awareness, but not here. The only beers I know that are commonly designated in derogatory fashion are kronenbourg and kanterbrau, which are commonly regarded as very low end brews. and I don't know about loony juice... as a 5.2% brew, it is quite average in strangth, not at all superstrong (those are often foreign, or at least used to be, I don't know if domestic brewers are competing for that part of the market)... as for cider, it has no such reputation either.. what is commonly available is often in the 2-3% alc range, and the real stuff is seldom stronger than 7%... nothing like good old Sidi Brahim wine. --Svartalf 14:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I think Stella is usually associated with binge-drinking and tramps; certainly not middle-class drinking. It's a standard cheap beer that's sold pretty much everywhere. - Tomos ANTIGUA Tomos 14:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

What the flaming hell?!?! It's called "wife-beater" for the character in a A Streetcar named Desire that angry man called Stan who beats his wife Stella!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.242.145.112 (talk) 22:05, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I just thought that I'd point out that this is a very English thing. In New Zealand, Stella is seen and marketed as a very high class beer, shy only of unique beers like Tuatara. It costs 50% more than most "table beers" (as you say) and certainly isn't drunk by the lower class. (We have Lion Red for that!) I was quite shocked when a UK friend pointed out to me the reputation it has in the UK. 219.89.37.222 (talk) 03:29, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I would suggest eliminating the wife-beater reference. Your typical beer is 5% alcohol, so you would need to drink 20 bottles before the extra 0.2% would make one drink's worth of difference. Spousal abuse accusations routinely get leveled at every cheap brand of alcohol and in some countries, the governments legislate the pricing both to combat abuse and to raise revenue. This particular reference just sullies the brand's reputation without offering any real educational value.FiReSTaRT (talk) 01:19, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

More wifebeater[edit]

I cut this part out today:

Why this has been applied to Stella Artois and no other beer is unknown. Another possible etymology for the nickname may come from Marlon Brando's famous portrayal of "Stanley" from A Streetcar Named Desire, specifically one well-known scene where he is clad in a man's undershirt, yelling "Stella!", the name of his wife, as he begs her to return after he violently beat her. No source or citation is available for this etymology.

The "wifebeater" part is easily verifiable, but speculation isn't entirely appropriate for an encyclopedia. – ClockworkSoul 15:36, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Then you'd better go through pretty much every historical item in the encylopedia and apply similar limits there. IT is not being passed off as fact that cannot be verified. It is a likely explanation. Nach0king 18:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I know many people that call Stella "wifebeater" in London. This is for one single reason = because it makes you more agressive and argumentative than any other lager on tap. It is well known for being a significant contributory factor in arguments between otherwise friendly people. 62.3.70.68 18:38, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I see someone cut the "wife beater" thing not long ago. However, here's a recent news story: in The Daily Mail and in a local newspaper. I think these are reasonable sources, so if no one objects I will reinstate the "wife beater" thing. By the way, the Streetcar etymology is, in my opinion, just a coincidence.--217.44.171.210 (talk) 10:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning that the "Stella" name is associated with the "wifebeater" tag, and the recent marketing has focusses strongly on the "Artois" side? Somerandomnerd (talk) 14:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

It'd be synthesis to assume a connection, unless there's a source that discusses it. --McGeddon (talk) 15:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Pretty sure the origin of the wife beater moniker is rhyming slang. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minister of New, New, Super Heavy Funk. (talkcontribs) 23:46, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't the fact that this comes up every all the time suggest that it at least includes some sort of mention, or do you think everyone that brings it up is somehow in cahoots with each other and part of a global cabal that want to pollute global lager based knowledge? > — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.17.149.18 (talk) 10:19, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

It merits some sort of mention (perhaps as a popular misconception) if reliable sources discuss it, so find some.
This talk page would suggest it came up once each year in 2005-2008 and then in 2016. This does not strike me as something that comes up "every all the time" (sic). Furthermore, folk etymologies (Port Out Starboard Home, Store High In Transit, etc) are often widely known and quoted; they're still completely bogus. Pinkbeast (talk) 12:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

"Reassuringly Expensive" slogan[edit]

I haven't been looking very hard, but I haven't seen this slogan in the US. Is it mainly in Europe? --alxndr 21:30, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

yup, they make a very big deal of it over here (UK) Pickle 13:18, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

It is a big part of their advertising here in the UK. Having said that, when I was in New York last summer, I saw a couple of billboards for Stella Artois with the slogan "Perfection has its Price", along the same lines there.

Belgium vs UK[edit]

Has anybody any suitable sources of information regarding apparent 'differences' between the version brewed in Belgium and the version brewed under licence in the UK? It is alleged that the UK version is, without ventruring into slanderous territory, somewhat 'different' than its Belgium based counterpart, possibly due to a difference in brewing techniques to speed up production and increase yield. Robbos

I have English friends who think Stella tastes of "hobo piss", and I don't think it's that bad at all. Sure, Jupiler is the superior lager, but Stella's not bad. (I'm Flemish, btw.) 134.58.253.131 16:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
UK brewed Stella certainly does taste of "hobo piss", not as bad as Kronenberg, but not far off. Belgian brewed Stella is quite palatable, like you say not upto Jupiler standards, but not bad. Most of the Stella sold in the UK is brewed in the UK, however you can get Belgian Stella from many corner shops for the same price or less (they might be white van imports). Likewise I did try Stella once in Belgium and was a little shocked to find it was UK Stella (it was draught (so wasn't labeled), but you could taste it instantly) - admittedly the pub was in quite a touristy area of Brussels (across from the Hotel Le Plaza, if you know it). I suspect the only people ordering Stella in most Brussels pubs are tourists with no taste in beer, so it is probably safest to give them the piss they are used to - I only drank the Stella because it was bought for me and it would have been rude not too.
The brewing process InBev employ in the UK, is very different I suspect. I once heard a spokesman from InBev on the radio talking about Carlsberg and Stella (though more about Carlsberg) - he was saying that their aim is to have it a tasteless and fizzy as possible, and produced start to finish in less than two weeks. I would love to see a chemical analysis of UK and Belgian Stella. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a higher methanol to ethanol ratio in the UK Stella - neither would I be surprised if this is why UK Stella has been termed wifebeater; although (AFAIK) no one has identified a link between drunken madness and methanol, I don't think anyone has bothered to look. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.163.165.185 (talk) 14:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
What Europeans might refer to as "hobo piss" is most likely what North Americans refer to as "skunking" and refers to "lightstrike" which is the chemical reaction when sunlight or fluorescent light reacts with volatile hop compounds. The resulting chemical is similar to a skunk's spray and gives a distinctly unpleasant sulfurous odor and an off taste that people are sensitive to. The reason is the green bottle, which does not do a good job of preventing light from hitting the liquid. The green bottle was selected by marketing people not beer people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.109.222.74 (talk) 00:40, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Location of Breweries[edit]

Stella is also brewed in Melbourne (Australia) by Carton and United Breweries. I assume it has some kind licenced from InBev...

Not Suitable for Vegans and Vegetarians[edit]

Stella Artois is made using an extract of fish swimbladder called isinglass to clarify the lager. Interbrew have confirmed this in the link I have posted.

"Consumer Helpline <Consumer.Helpline@inbev.co.uk>

Thank you for your email regarding brands suitable for vegetarians.

The animal product used is Isinglass (fish finings). This is a clarification agent made from certain fish. It assists clarification by attracting the yeast cells causing them to coagulate into larger particles which then separate from the beer, giving the beer a clean and clear appearance.

The brands we produce that are suitable for Vegetarians and Vegans are Hoegaarden, and Becks.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Once again thank you for contacting InBev UK Ltd.

Regards Barbara Consumer Services Advisor InBev UK Ltd Consumer Helpline: 0870 24 111 24"

62.3.70.68 18:46, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Mediation has resulted in idea of positive statements on vegan beer rather than negative statements on virtually every beer article. Thanks ;) Dr Wong 07:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I personally can't see how mentioning it either way meets WP:NOT at all - its indiscriminate information. --Kiand 07:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Since they began their marketing campaign stating that Stella only cotains 4 ingredients InBev have changed their production method and now no longer use isinglass. Muleattack (talk) 17:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Is this your personal conclusion based on the ad, or have they specifically mentioned not using it any more? So far as I understand it, isinglass isn't an ingredient in the final product, but it is used as part of the manufacturing process. --McGeddon (talk) 17:45, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I've had email confirmation direct from InBev. consumerhelpline@inbev.co.uk

"Thank you for your e-mail to the consumer helpline, at InBev UK.

Stella Artois, is suitable for vegetarians and vegans.

Once again, thank you for contacting InBev UK."

I've also read a more in depth email that I don't have permission to reproduce that explains clearly that isinglass is no longer used. Muleattack (talk) 17:58, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Just received this response from Inbrev ______

from Consumer Helpline <consumerhelpline@inbev.co.uk> to xxxx.xxxx@gmail.com date 22 December 2008 10:50 subject RE: Stella Artois

Dear xxx

Thank you for your email regarding brands suitable for vegetarians.

The animal product used [in some products] is Isinglass (fish finings). This is a clarification agent made from certain fish. It assists clarification by attracting the yeast cells causing them to coagulate into larger particles which then separate from the beer, giving the beer a clean and clear appearance.

The brands we produce that are suitable for Vegetarians and Vegans are Hoegaarden, Brahma, Beck’s, Peeterman Artois, and Stella Artois.

Thank you again, for contacting InBev UK.

Regards Barbara Consumer Helpline Advisor InBev UK Ltd 0870 24 111 24

__________________

82.29.114.179 (talk) 15:17, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

pron of Artois[edit]

can we gat an IPA pronunciation of Artois? Chris 05:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

"table beer" characterized by its bottom fermented method?[edit]

This statement needs to be clarified. Almost all lagers are bottom fermented, including pilsners. Does "table beer" refer to lagers in general or just pilsners. Also, it seems a little unnecessary. Eric Van Bogaert 20:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I would presume "table beer" is much the same as "table wine." An alcoholic beverage that is cheap, to be enjoyed with a meal, and is not high in alcohol content so that it won't make the drinker logy. 66.207.82.65 (talk) 15:20, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't believe that sentence has remained in the article for almost three years since Eric Van Bogaert. Not only is it written appallingly (is 'table beers' referring to ales or pilsners? The novice reader wouldn't know), but the confusing, snarky, and unsupported reference to table beers adds nothing to the article. Melaena (talk) 23:29, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

There is a version of Stella Artois that is sold as "Table beer". It is in brown 75cl bottles with a very low alcohol in it. It has cap like a limonade bottle. I used to drink it when I was a small child at dinner. --Walter (talk) 01:12, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Eiken[edit]

Under the see also section i've added Eiken Artois, which is a new oak aged lager set to replace the Bock variant of artois line, news can be seen here - http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/news_detail.aspx?articleid=56134&linkedfrom=search&from=&to=&keywords=%C2%AEions=%C2%A4tpage=0

Souldriver x (talk) 21:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging[edit]

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 03:41, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Stella Artois 4%[edit]

Inbev have recently launched a 4% abv version of stella artois, to go along side exsisting brands offering more choice to consumers. link to stelle site here; http://www.stella-artois-news.co.uk/content/inbev-launch-stella-artois-4

62.56.102.106 (talk) 18:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

5.2%?[edit]

I bought a can of UK-brewed Stella today and the alcoholic strength was printed on the can as 5.0% by volume, rather than 5.2% as used to be the case. Does this change only apply to UK Stella, or does it apply to the Belgian version as well? 217.155.20.163 (talk) 23:31, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I have also noticed the new 5% cans of UK brewed Stella. I was wondering, could this be due to alcohol duty legislation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.159.132.16 (talk) 12:10, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I've been noticing increasing incidence of the weaker 5% brew over recent months, as well as the disappearance of the embossed can. It would be great to know the rationale for these changes.13eastie (talk) 20:33, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I checked the cans in the shop today. Over here in Flanders (Belgium), they still indicate 5.2%. Therefore, the alcoholic strenght change may be UK brewed specific. AFAIK, our domestic brewed Stella is remaining 5.2%. -- Bartvs (talk) 00:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I bought some stella in Leuven today, and it's still 5,2%, maybe the 5% is a UK thing, I'm changing the article to reflect this --Lamadude (talk) 18:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Stella in Canada is still 5.2%. I believe it must be a UK thing. --dsherret (talk) 04:18, 13 Aug 2009 (UTC)
I just bought a 12-pack here in Canada and it's 5.0%. Vranak (talk) 20:55, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
It's now gone down to 4.8% in the UK. Pleasetry (talk) 17:25, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Re this edit: Stella in the UK is being reduced to 4.8% during 2012.[1] However, when I looked at some Stella on the shelf of a UK supermarket today, it was still labelled at 5%. It is still advertised online at 5% in the UK as well. Perhaps this change is still in the process of being rolled out.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:50, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Gran the 5% version while you still can, the 4.8 version is vastly inferior. I'd love to know InBev's reasoning for this bizarre change.--MartinUK (talk) 17:12, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I would love to know why inbev belgium even allow inbev uk to make these horrid changes in the first place. It is giving real stella artois 5.2% a bad name here having dropped to 5.0% in 2007-2008 and then again from 5.0-4.8 is a pure joke its horrid stella artois is in the uk now im boycotting it till its changed back to 5 or 5.2%. Unfortunatly the abv seems to have dropped to at least 5.0% in most countries that stella artois is sold in now from what i can make out. I know it is only 5.0% in france and that ab inbev france produce their own version of stella artois because i have bought it on the ferry to dunkirk it tastes different to the 5.0% stella made in belgium for the eu market. it has more of a kronnenburg type taste to it.

The uk now make a horrid 4.8% version though in my opinion it is the 5.0 or 5.2% stella thats just been watered downand to a lower abv and not a new version of stella artois brewed to only 4.8% as inbev uk claim. Unfortunatly the real 5.2% stella artois will be neglected to history books soon due to tax avoidance measures used by inbev around the world. I assume now its only possible to obtain 5.2% atella artois in belgium and holland now although its never been a popular drink in the netherlands and is hard to find. 21/03/2013 martyn west midlands uk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.64.64 (talk) 22:55, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Leuven?[edit]

The article states everywhere Louvain which is the French translation of Leuven, shouldn't we adopt the article to use Leuven instead? French speaking population in Leuven is véry low. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.101.44.149 (talk) 17:21, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, "Lewuven" NOT 'Louvain' should be used. Sadly French-speakers are forever 'spiking' English language Wikis like so. Tis a form of vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.66.66.78 (talk) 00:19, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

A silly complaint to make here, 7 years later, when the article says "Leuven" throughout. Pinkbeast (talk) 15:37, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Edits by Portlander10/83.244.252.242[edit]

This is in various newspapers today, but not all of the details add up. There are clear signs of editing by Portlander10/83.244.252.242 in the edit history of Wife-beater in August 2011 (which is basically a disambiguation page), but none in Stella Artois (this article).--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:26, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Decouple[edit]

It has been suggested to decouple Stella Artois from the United States. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.229.115.207 (talk) 22:25, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeast[edit]

Does anyone have a link to SA advertising specifically claiming yeast is not used in the brewing process? Sandcherry (talk) 02:39, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

There has been some recent back and forth editing between Sandcherry and myself regarding the question of Stella's advertisements in the UK claiming "contains only 4 ingredients - Hops, Malted Barley, Maize and Water." and more recently "Hops, Maize, Barley, Water ... and then voilà"

See also

http://wineforspicewarrenedwardes.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/stella-artois-is-made-without-yeast.html

http://wineforspicewarrenedwardes.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/immaculate-fermentation-beer-made.html

In view of other edits to this page by a PR firm others may wish to go over recent edits to see if we have arrived at a fair position. --GinaKendal (talk) 16:26, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Gina, Your last edit looks fine to me. I think it captures the facts without commenting on SA's perhaps questionable advertising. Cheers! Sandcherry (talk) 02:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Gina, you have been adding links to this blog in several places. Please stop. Blogs like this are not acceptable per WP:ELNO, certainly not as references, unless the blog writer is a recognized expert in the field, and I can find no evidence that this one is. ~Amatulić (talk) 18:26, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


Translation of the name?[edit]

Does anyone know what "stella artois" means in English? I'm guessing "silver star". Norman21 (talk) 13:17, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

According to the Stella Artois website:

In 1708, Sebastian Artois became the master brewer at Den Hoorn. And only nine years later, such was his commitment, he was able to buy the brewery, putting his last name on it and eventually on every bottle of Stella Artois around the world. Because The Artois Brewery was so beloved internationally and locally, a special batch was brewed as a Christmas gift for our loyal patrons. That special batch was the first to officially include "Stella" in its name. "Stella", meaning star in Latin, pays homage to this original occasion, accompanied by a star on every bottle.

The link with Sebastien Artois is mentioned in the article, but not the "Stella" part.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 13:31, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

From Google Translate (I know, I know...): Definitions of Artois: noun: a region and former province of northwestern France. The name Sébastien is French, not Dutch. So, "Sébastien of Artois"!!! Given that a good brewer is a good brewer, and migration was common even in the Dark Ages, a French brewer in what is now Belgium cannot be surprising. And don't forget, legend has it the French were the ones who "spiced up" boring old "ale" with Extract of dried Hop flowers... 220.253.234.158 (talk) 00:17, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

super bowl ad criticism[edit]

i put the articles cited to prove that the ad was "heavily criticised" in belgium for portraying it as french into google translate and didn't get the impression. both articles focused on the fact that the ad wasn't well received among some focus groups and stuff. both barely mentioned the idea of belgians being mad they made it look french. granted this is google translation here but the meaning of all the translated sentences and stuff seemed pretty clear to me. so, either it's unfair to say that "belgians were really mad" about it or a better article to cite to prove that should be found. 2601:B:C580:1318:2D5D:545C:9FD8:B0BF (talk) 05:16, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Just a polite word to Pinkbeast undoing my January 12 edit to Stella_Artois#United_States. I'm not about to start an edit war. Just remember that Wikipedia has very recently had two major funding campaigns, to which I did not respond. And your undoing of a researched edit is typical of why I don't contribute financially to Wikipedia. I don't ever financially support any enterprise which allows or encourages non-factual information. 203.59.241.234 (talk) 06:17, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Wife beater[edit]

The wife beater crap is dumb, unencyclopedic bullshit. We shouldn't pretend to be a serious encyclopedia if we keep tabloidish junk like that in an article. Calidum T|C 05:17, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

This was covered in reliable sources, particularly after there were attempts to remove it.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 05:23, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
To me it appears it's only being included because someone tried to remove it. Are there any reliable sources that refer to the nickname before the incident? Calidum T|C 05:26, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
I support removal unless a notable citation is added. Any alcoholic beverage could be tagged with a wife or husband beating label. Sandcherry (talk) 23:09, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Keep it in, but remove the section heading added by the IP recently. The Independent source refers to use of the nickname before the incident. Pinkbeast (talk) 00:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Calidum just removed this, "per talk page", abusing the minor edit facility, although in fact we were evenly divided (and, OR or no, both editors in favour of retaining the term live in the UK and as such might be _slightly_ better informed about usage here; one against supports "removal unless a notable citation is added" when the usage is cited to a national newspaper.)

Furthermore, the attempt by PR flacks to remove the reference is not remotely tabloid junk, and well cited.

Would any other editors care to comment? Pinkbeast (talk) 22:53, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

There was no clear consensus to remove this on the talk page. Comments from other editors are welcome.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 05:10, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Ianmacm that the mainstream media attention makes this incident sufficiently relevant for inclusion in the article.    FDMS  4    01:32, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


To which, may I add, the "wifebeater" nick-name is well known in the UK and references to it pre-dating the 2012 attempts to remove it are easy to find:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-494149/Where-did-wrong-beer-wife-beater.html
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1841603.Pubs_ban_Stella_Artois/
http://metro.co.uk/2008/10/15/wife-beater-stella-made-even-stronger-34759/
http://www.prweek.com/article/1099504/reputation-survey-beer-brands---stella-artois-sends-mixed-messages
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/jul/25/fooddrinks
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1483178.city_judge_condemns_wifebeater_booze/
That last reference is particularly worth reading since Stella Artois felt they had to respond to the judge's comments regarding the frequency with which he heard cases related to domestic violence in which Stella Artois had played a part. Maybe American editors should be more circumspect about calling well-referenced material about another country they apparently have no idea about "bullshit" and so-forth.FOARP (talk) 11:47, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

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Pilsner and lager[edit]

I wonder if we might change the text in the infobox to Pilsner lager? That would still be accurate but might save some of this endless series of driveby edits. Pinkbeast (talk) 04:59, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that might be a good idea. However, the purists might say that "Pilsner lager" is word redundancy because Pilsner is a lager, which has been said umpteen times. Pilsner is a less common word in everyday English use, but it is a more accurate description of how Stella Artois is brewed.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 05:07, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Well, let's see if any of them do say it. I think avoiding the confusion that the infobox seems to produce is more important - if a reader knows what lager is but not pilsner (which I suspect is typical of British English speakers, at any rate) their comprehension is improved by saying both.Pinkbeast (talk) 16:16, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
I disagree. If readers don't know what a Pilsner is, their comprehension is improved by clicking on the Pilsner wikilink. Just like my comprehension was improved when I clicked on it because I didn't know what "Pilsner" meant (other than I knew it was a kind of beer). There is no need to coddle ignorance here. The phrase "Pilsner Lager" does nothing to explain the meaning of "Pilsner". If a reader doesn't know the term, then slapping it as an adjective in front of the word "Lager" doesn't serve to enlighten. And as far as I can determine, "Pilsner Lager" as a descriptive term doesn't occur at all in reliable sources. ~Amatulić (talk) 06:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
This news story says "Stella tries to shed its lager lout image". It doesn't say "Stella tries to shed its Pilsner lout image" because the word "Pilsner" isn't commonly used in British English.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:54, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
Of course the phrase "pilsner lager" does do something to explain the meaning of "pilsner". It suggests that "pilsner" is a kind of lager, which it is.
A brief google suggests the expression is common in describing yeast varieties - and beers. Aha, and here is an interview with Michael Jackson on his own Website where he uses the term "Pilsner lager". If he wasn't a reliable authority on beer, who is? Pinkbeast (talk) 13:24, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
This Google ngram of thousands of books shows that Pilsner is a common term, but "Pilsner lager" barely rises off the zero line. Some reliable sources may use it, but they are in such an insignificant minority that we need not emphasize the term in a Wikipedia article. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:46, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
Last I checked you were arguing that reliable sources didn't use it. Now it turns out one of the most reliable sources does, so now you're talking percentages. Why? One of the leading authorities on beer did use it and furthermore it would avoid confusion. Pinkbeast (talk) 00:51, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
It's unsatisfactory to suggest using "Pilsner lager" simply because we're tired of people altering the infobox wording. Most of the well-known lager brands in a modern supermarket are Pilsners, but lager is still the WP:COMMONNAME for this type of beer.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 04:19, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
That would suggest saying "lager" alone, which is a third option... Pinkbeast (talk) 14:35, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
I have cited many sources telling Stella Artois is a lager not a pislner. Michael Jackson have used the term once of Pilsner Lager, but no links with Stella Artois. It's true pilsnet is a type of lager, but this doesn't prove Stella Artois is a pilsner. Acording to different sources, the precise beer type is Premium American Lager (BJCP) or Euro Pale Lager (BeerAdvocate), both source have clear example of pilsner. Also from personal experience, Pilsner Urquell have a stronger hop aroma than Stella Artois. So why removing my contributions ? Andonier (talk) 08:42, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
None of your sources say it is a lager not a pilsner, because pilsner is a type of lager. If a source says that something is a mammal, that does not mean it is not an elephant, because an elephant is a type of mammal. If you read the cite I added, Michael Jackson - who was one of the world's leading authorities on beer - says "In the rest of the world, the best-known Belgian Pilsener is the lightly hoppy, grassy, Stella Artois", a very clear statement that it is a pilsner.
Pilsner Urquell is a pilsner; that doesn't mean that every other pilsner has to smell exactly like it, so I'm not sure what your point is here. Pinkbeast (talk) 11:10, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
As I've said before, most modern supermarket lagers are pilsners; the pale yellow colour is a giveaway. The problem is that pilsner isn't a commonly used word.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:35, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
The color giveaway isn't enough to define a style. How can we make a difference between a pale lager and a pilsner ? I was looking a formal source telling this beer has been qualified as pilsner, Pinkbeast have mentioned one, but I haven't seen it, the citation on the first sentence wasn't relevant anymore. With personal search, I've also noticed ABInDev officially qualify this beer as pils. As you know there is no universally agreed list of beer styles as different countries and organisations have different sets of criteria, so I've written in the infobox, all the formal sources I've found.Andonier (talk) 18:36, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
This source says "the bottom-fermented pilsner lagers such as Stella Artois head the list for domestic consumption, making up almost 75% of Belgian beer production." There are different styles of pilsner, but the origin of all modern lagers with a pale yellow colour can be traced back to the use of bottom fermentation in Plzeň in the nineteenth century.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:44, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
If you haven't seen one, then why not look at the one I have edited into the infobox and keep mentioning? Michael Jackson is an impeccable authority on beer. As discussed, since pilsner is a type of lager, it is not necessary to insert kinds of lager. That it is a lager is already implicit in "pilsner". (Personally I still favour saying pilsner lager to cut down on these confusions, but not to fill the infobox with what appear to be three different beer styles to casual inspection.) Pinkbeast (talk) 21:26, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
1st Point : I have seen the the Michael Jackson source. I agree with this, I have even change the sources in the infobox, and the UK newspaper of the first line was irrelevant so I have removed them. So I don't understand why you revert a change that go in that direction.Andonier (talk) 07:42, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
2nd point : I have clearly understand that pilsner is a type of lager, but premium american lager is also a type of lager which could be seen as different than pilsner. But as there is no universally agreed list of beer style, I have added added other sources in the infobox. Do you consider BJCP (for instance) a non legitimate source of beer style ?Andonier (talk) 07:42, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Terms like "premium American lager" are largely advertising hype. If it is a bottom fermented blond beer, it is a pilsner and a lager.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:09, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
So you consider BJCP a non legitimate source ? In that case it should be removed from this page List of beer styles, isn't it ?Andonier (talk) 08:15, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
If you had seen the Michael Jackson source I don't understand why you wrote above that you had not seen a source that described it as a pilsner. Leaving aside the question of whether "premium American lager" is marketese (which I think it is), it is wrong to say that it "could be seen as different than pilsner" - obviously a beer can be expensive ("premium", in marketese), whatever the BJCP mean by "American" (which evidently isn't actually being American), and a pilsner (and hence a lager) so the two terms do not contradict. "Pilsner" is a more useful term because it is more pertinent to describe the style of beer precisely than to mention that it is expensive (let alone that it is "American", a term that requires immediate clarification since the beer isn't American...) Pinkbeast (talk) 15:54, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

─────────────────────────It's worth noting that there is a whole article devoted to the Budweiser trademark dispute. Despite attempts by the American company to portray itself as being as American as mom's apple pie, the origin of the word Budweiser is a place name in the Czech Republic. This is also true of Pilsner.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:46, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Streetcar named Desire[edit]

We have an IP who's dead keen on editing in the uncited derivation of "wife-beater" from A Streetcar Named Desire. It seems like it might be useful to have a talk page item on it, although as long as it remains uncited, I can't see that it belongs in the article. Pinkbeast (talk) 13:28, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

It has been said that this is the origin of the term "wife-beater" because one of the characters in A Streetcar Named Desire is called Stella and Stanley hits Stella. The trouble is that there is no reliable sourcing for this and it could just be another urban legend. This is unsuitable for the article unless it is reliably sourced.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:26, 29 July 2016 (UTC)