Talk:Ty Cobb

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Former good article Ty Cobb was one of the Sports and recreation good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Army service -- officer or enlisted?[edit]

The one reference regarding Cobb's military service has him quoted as enlisting. He "wore" captains bars, but that looks like a dog&pony show for the trainees. We do not have info showing Cobb as commissioned. Accordingly, I'm changing the category for him to US Army personnel.--S. Rich (talk) 21:07, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Its documented in various sources (see Ty Cobb: A Biography by Dan Holmes) that he was commissioned as a Captain in the Chemical Warfare Service. He served with Christy Mathewson and Branch Rickey in the unit. All three were comissioned as captains. They were in the unit basically as a part of a PR strategy to deal with fear of poison gas attacks among the public. But while it was for PR, what they were doing was very dangerous. They were repeatedly exposed to gas in "training exercises". Mathewson's life was shortened due to exposure to the gas. 75.20.229.120 (talk) 00:07, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

All of the Al Stump sourced material should be removed.[edit]

Al Stump has long-ago been revealed to a totally unreliable source. This is a man who has been shown to have been a forger and a con-man who sold invented Cobb items repeatedly. There is simply no basis by which he can be considered a reliable source on Cobb anymore. All the stories about Cobb that exclusively source to Stump should be removed. 70.234.227.209 (talk) 21:39, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't look like anyone replied to this comment by the anon editor, but I have the same concern. If Al Stump has been shown to time and again fictionalized and sensationalized the life and times of Ty Cobb, most recently concretely proven in the 2010 peer-reviewed article (http://haulsofshame.com/Final%20SABR%20Article%20-%20as%20published_6744.pdf), as well as manufactured baseball and personnal memoribilia that he attributed to Cobb, how can we keep anything in this article that is attributed to either of Stump's three books? This would obviously be a major haircut as sentences/quotes/sections attributed to Stump are sprinkled throughout the page, but I would volunteer to attempt it. Ckruschke (talk) 15:59, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

Agreed, Stump is not a reliable source. The new book by Leerhsen might prove a valuable source (and certainly further debunks the Stump myths). I've linked a review of it: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/books/review/ty-cobb-a-terrible-beauty-by-charles-leerhsen.html (2 July 2015) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.95.126.175 (talk) 16:25, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Disputed Batting Average[edit]

The article says that his career batting average is .367, but it later says .366. I have also seen these disputed sources, but the same article cannot dispute itself within just words of itself. Something needs to be done so that the article does not tarnish the reputation of Wikipedia. Joey Gallo (talk) 01:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

The aricle's final paragraphs explain that Cobb's exact at-bat and hit totals are in question, and identify the season under scrutiny. There could be more detail, but I think what's there is adequate to explain why there are varying figures. This sort of dispute exists for many statistics from the earlier days, and some might never be resolved definitively. WHPratt (talk) 12:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
There is a statistical discrepancy and it is mentioned in the article - not much more is needed as it isn't an earth-shattering issue and is common amongst turn-of-the-century/1910's/20's players as WHPratt rightly states. And I'm not sure how long you've been on Wiki, but there is no reputation to tarnish as this page is one of the better ones... To imply that having a difference in one stat out of all that text somehow besmirches the page in particular and Wiki as a whole is "interesting" to say the least. Ckruschke (talk) 19:08, 20 June 2014 (UTC)Ckruschke I have been on Wikipedia for a few days. I used strong wording to get the point across. I know it was a good article, but it seems weird that one site would have two different numbers for one stat. I know that old players may have disputed or even unknown stats, but a person reading the article may want to see the more often used batting average. Either one still gives Cobb a big lead over Hornsby for career batting average. Joey Gallo (talk) 01:47, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
I am somewhat surprised to note that Cobb's stats are still in question. Given the importance of his numbers, I'd have expected that all of the surviving accounts of all of his games should have been gone over at least once. However, some of his daily totals must still be in question, and some detailed explanation would be fascinating. WHPratt (talk) 03:10, 22 June 2014 (UTC) Is it because the official scorers are more organized now? Joey Gallo (talk) 12:55, 22 June 2014 (UTC)


In 1969 the official baseball encyclopedia was commissioned, and old documents were combed to update the records, things like pre-1920 runs batted in. This effort was incomplete, but it established methods and standards, and many of the remaining gaps have been filled in since then. Given the built-in check and balances and redundancies, I'm rather sure that no hits have been lost or gained lately.WHPratt (talk) 12:28, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Typo in Strikeouts?[edit]

The discrepancy between strikeouts between the two websites that the statistics are listed from is HUGE (300-something vs 600-something). Typo?

I looked at the actual references for the two sets of stats. The MLB.com stats don't include any strikeouts from 1905 to 1912. It looks like Cobb's strikeout rate during that time was at its highest according to Baseball Reference. I don't think that strikeouts were counted as an official offensive statistic until 1913. EricEnfermero HOWDY! 09:47, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
Up until about 1969, strikeout data for the 1910s and before had been unrecorded. The site retrosheet.org has Cobb at 681 career strikeouts. Their data is gathered from surviving scoresheets. They don't even flag this total as "incomplete" as they do with Cobb's caught stealing, intentional walks, grounded into double play and a few more stats, so they must think it's reliable. The 300-odd figure must be the total for the later years that dsidn't have to be reconstructed. WHPratt (talk) 13:41, 3 November 2014 (UTC)