Talk:Ty Cobb

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Baseball / Hall of Fame (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of baseball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Hall of Fame task force.
 

This article has comments here.

WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Georgia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

This article has comments here.

WikiProject Michigan (Rated B-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Michigan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Michigan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Biography / Military / Sports and Games (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the military biography work group (marked as Low-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the sports and games work group (marked as Top-importance).
 

This article has comments here.

This article has an assessment summary page.
Former good article Ty Cobb was one of the Sports and recreation good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

All of the Al Stump sourced material should be removed.[edit]

Al Stump has long-ago been revealed to a totally unreliable source. This is a man who has been shown to have been a forger and a con-man who sold invented Cobb items repeatedly. There is simply no basis by which he can be considered a reliable source on Cobb anymore. All the stories about Cobb that exclusively source to Stump should be removed. 70.234.227.209 (talk) 21:39, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't look like anyone replied to this comment by the anon editor, but I have the same concern. If Al Stump has been shown to time and again fictionalized and sensationalized the life and times of Ty Cobb, most recently concretely proven in the 2010 peer-reviewed article (http://haulsofshame.com/Final%20SABR%20Article%20-%20as%20published_6744.pdf), as well as manufactured baseball and personnal memoribilia that he attributed to Cobb, how can we keep anything in this article that is attributed to either of Stump's three books? This would obviously be a major haircut as sentences/quotes/sections attributed to Stump are sprinkled throughout the page, but I would volunteer to attempt it. Ckruschke (talk) 15:59, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

Agreed, Stump is not a reliable source. The new book by Leerhsen might prove a valuable source (and certainly further debunks the Stump myths). I've linked a review of it: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/books/review/ty-cobb-a-terrible-beauty-by-charles-leerhsen.html (2 July 2015) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.95.126.175 (talk) 16:25, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Thirded. Stump was a fraud and a charlatan who made up stuff to suit his bank account. Anything citing any of his works should be removed ASAP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.112.197.50 (talk) 08:54, 9 July 2015 (UTC) 209.112.197.50 (talk) 08:56, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. Must also include the secondary sources which reference Stump's work. So who's going to do the heavy lifting :)

Typo in Strikeouts?[edit]

The discrepancy between strikeouts between the two websites that the statistics are listed from is HUGE (300-something vs 600-something). Typo?

I looked at the actual references for the two sets of stats. The MLB.com stats don't include any strikeouts from 1905 to 1912. It looks like Cobb's strikeout rate during that time was at its highest according to Baseball Reference. I don't think that strikeouts were counted as an official offensive statistic until 1913. EricEnfermero HOWDY! 09:47, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
Up until about 1969, strikeout data for the 1910s and before had been unrecorded. The site retrosheet.org has Cobb at 681 career strikeouts. Their data is gathered from surviving scoresheets. They don't even flag this total as "incomplete" as they do with Cobb's caught stealing, intentional walks, grounded into double play and a few more stats, so they must think it's reliable. The 300-odd figure must be the total for the later years that dsidn't have to be reconstructed. WHPratt (talk) 13:41, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Suggest a Complete Revision[edit]

Having just finished Leerhsen's Terrible Beauty, it is obvious that Cobb's page needs revised. Going forward Leerhsen should be considered the definitive resource if only for the simple fact that he actually fact checked the various other works on Cobb. Suggest removing the references to racism. (Leerhsen notes that despite the prevailing opinion there is only one account of Cobb referencing race and it was an indifferent statement acceptable for the time period.) Also suggest removing the section about Sam Crawford. Considering that Cobb had feuds with numerous teammates, it is unnecessary to focus on just one of the rivalries. Lastly, would suggest that a section focusing on the ground truth of Cobb and Al Stump's brief relationship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Razzanof (talkcontribs) 04:47, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

"Cobb was notorious for sliding into bases feet first, with his spikes high"[edit]

This line from the intro should be deleted. One of its two "sources" is an ESPN reader's mailbag, and the other is a photograph! That is pretty bad. 2602:306:CFEA:170:7DC9:E70B:5264:70EB (talk) 00:06, 15 December 2015 (UTC)