User talk:Magog the Ogre/Archive 23

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File:AC 2nd Rowing Eight 1950.JPEG

Was this really a proper deletion? It is my understanding that all Australian photos taken since 1946 are {{Not-PD-US-URAA}}, so wouldn't this just get deleted in the Commons URAA review? --Stefan2 (talk) 19:43, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Restored; there's just so many transferred that I'm missing some. Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:44, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

That's understandable. It seems that someone didn't know about URAA and didn't check enough when moving files to Commons. --Stefan2 (talk) 19:53, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Well the uploader for the numerous Australia images didn't seem to verify some of the licenses - e.g., a few created after 1955. That's understandable if s/he is unfamiliar with copyright law. Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:55, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

User talk:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz#Your ability to communicate with other people

I have contacted him about his communication with others about images, yet he accused me about failing to understand NFCC and requirements of communication. I don't know what to do. --George Ho (talk) 19:59, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

George, I'm not quite sure I understand the nature of your dispute with him. What did he do that's upsetting you? And what is it you want him to do differently? Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:22, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

He keeps removing images from BLPs without proper notification, and he scolds me for not understanding NFCC and for inappropiate use on images of living persons. Also, he cites WP:BLPs as a reason for deleting them. ...Well, I did request speedy deletion on the Josh Byrne article only because he told me that there is nothing to help keep that image. --George Ho (talk) 02:26, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Does he tag the images as invalid fair use rationale as well? Or does he just remove the image from the page and leave the image untagged? Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:28, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Removed images without tagging them most likely. --George Ho (talk) 02:29, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, the "John David Carson" image is not my doing, but I just pointed out what he does to other people's uploadings. --George Ho (talk) 02:41, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Costco US Map

HI Magog, I'm a grad student working on a project in the organic food industry and came across your map for all Costco locations in the US! We would like to use the map to show which Costco regions currently sell organics. Any ideas on how to color code by state using your map? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuttomedia (talkcontribs) 22:51, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

So wait - do you want the color of the dots to change based on which US state they're in, or based off whether the store sells organic or not? The first one would be simple for me to do (wouldn't take more than 10 minutes), whereas for the latter, I'd need a list. Or are the organic stores already listed somewhere on the website? Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:32, 15 May 2012 (UTC)


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Wondering if we can accelerate the DI process, since we are all in agreement that the image is problematic. Sitush (talk) 07:52, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problems

Hi, at File:SteveOda-2008-05-05-Toronto.jpg you "archived" a version from that had no evidence of permission. The only version with a free license is the one from flickr. And you even used a bot, why? We can't just guess copyright. And now I gotta ask a commons admin to deleted that version. Hekerui (talk) 21:30, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

It seems you use the bot a lot, but if you want to save a derivative work, why save it over the original and then upload the original again? This looks like a waste of space and a lot of redundancy to me. Hekerui (talk) 21:34, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry. Did you have something to ask? Because all I can see is a bunch of snarky accusations. Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:22, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

1) Why do you use a bot to upload derivative works to the Commons and then have it override them with the original work again? 2) Can you help sort out the complicated image situation of the Oda image here? 3) Can you accept my regret for coming across "snarky"? I was merely puzzled by those actions. Thanks Hekerui (talk) 09:47, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

The bot is meant to upload not derivative works, but works which have been overwritten by minor changes (e.g., minor crops, tint changes, watermark removal, etc.). Because the changes are minor, they don't warrant their own image on Wikipedia or Commons, so standard practice in both locations has been to just overwrite the old file. Unfortunately, when transferring images to Commons, the bots don't transfer over the older versions of the image. Thus, if someone deletes the image under WP:CSD#F8, then the old versions are now permanently gone to anyone without administrator access on the local project (strictly speaking, F8 is only supposed to be used when all of the versions of the file have been transferred for this exact reason; but this is often missed). Therefore, this transfers those old versions over so they are not lost to the public; this can be useful if one wants to, say, recrop an image because the first crop was bad, or if for historical reasons someone wants access to the most faithful original that is obtainable. The logic is further stated at the bot request page on Commons: commons:Commons:Bots/Requests/OgreBot. As for being "snarky", yes, you are forgiven: and I apologize if I didn't respond well either (I've been sick for the past two days and not feeling well). Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:39, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


I'm trying to clean up some of the old OTRS entries.

I was initially puzzled by 2012041410009668

but now assume you are reaching out to them, hoping they will provide permission.

Is there any objection to closing this, as it should auto re-open if they reply?--SPhilbrick(Talk) 23:34, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

They never responded; it should be auto-reopened if they actually reply some day. Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:47, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
Wait; maybe this could be closed as a duplicate of 2012041610004623? Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:48, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

How ironic, that one was one I handled. I'll merge them.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 01:45, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

My interaction with JHunterJ

Animate thinks I'm borderline harassing JHunterJ and I must leave him alone. What do you think? --George Ho (talk) 17:31, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia files that shadow a file on Wikimedia Commons

Hi. I'm working on this category. In case you are wondering why so many files are moved to Commons with another name :-) --MGA73 (talk) 19:59, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Is there a bot filling that category? Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:44, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

No not as far as I know. User:Stefan2 has been tagging some. I do not know if he has a full list and have tagged all files or if he just tag some. --MGA73 (talk) 21:02, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I think he said something about it though. Magog the Ogre (talk) 21:03, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Let's see what he says. I wanted to leave a notice but you got there first :-) --MGA73 (talk) 21:06, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Someone (maybe とある白い猫?) once posted a list with lots of file names somewhere (Commons:COM:VP?) and I started going through the list by adding appropriate tags and moving some files to Commons. The file lists all file names existing on both English Wikipedia and on Commons. Files may be listed there for several reasons: two completely different files, {{keep local}} files, improperly moved files (typically thumbnails with insufficient information) et cetera. I think that it would be a bad idea to just tag everything as {{ShadowsCommons}} automatically since that could make it more difficult to identify the improper Commons transfers if people start moving around the files without checking carefully. Currently, there are almost 7,000 files in the list which haven't been checked at all. --Stefan2 (talk) 13:07, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I do not think that there are many users who work on those files so I doubt that it will be a big problem if we tag a bunch of files. When I work on a file with a ShadowsCommons I check both the file on enwiki and the file on Commons to see if it is the same file and if both files look free and I'm sure that you two also check before you move the files around. I agree that files with a keep local should not be tagged. We could make a list of all free files without a keep local and start with those. --MGA73 (talk) 14:37, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Even if we didn't mark the file, it would be nice to have a list. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:32, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Good/bad news

Hi. Good news is that I just moved 120+ files to Commons. Bad news is that I made a mistake so instead of having the bot ask me about every file it moved them all without asking. Therefore the files in Category:Wikipedia files reviewed on Wikimedia Commons by MGA73bot have not been checked by me so don't be surprised if there are bad transfers among the files. --MGA73 (talk) 14:54, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for helping me cleanup my mess. I had visitors yesterday so I only managed to check a few of the most obvious copyvios and some files that looked like userpage images. So I was surprised to find the category almost empty without an ugly talk page with a lot of DR's. --MGA73 (talk) 09:21, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Heh. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:31, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

And Category:User-created public domain files from November 2005 looks rather empty now... :-D --MGA73 (talk) 17:04, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Okay it was a surprisingly good result so I'm looking at Category:User-created public domain files from October 2005 at the moment. But I was wondering if you have any files or categories you would like to see moved to Commons? --MGA73 (talk) 18:10, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Uh... none I can think of. Try User:Kelly or User:Stefan2. Magog the Ogre (talk) 18:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, it is always useful to empty the {{ShadowsCommons}} category, but I may have had a reason for tagging files with {{ShadowsCommons}} instead of moving them to Commons: the local file might be a fair use file, file possibly out of scope, shadowed Commons file possibly very similar to the local file (so maybe no need to keep both), unresolved FOP issues or anything else. --Stefan2 (talk) 18:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Help in bringing page of Park Soyeon back to initial page and in clearing Redirects

Can you help in bringing the page back to it initial? The "move" of Park Soyeon page by Chikazuku is totally unnecessary. Cause even before his moving, people can tell the difference of whether it is the idol Park Soyeon or the skater Park So-youn as their page are named differently. And now because of his "move" and my trying to "unmoved", there are so many "Redirects". And like others names or words,I believe if people want to find the page, they can just use the SEARCH at the top, so there really is no necessary for the add of (entertainer). Please help in returning the page to it's original and clear the "Redirects".

Same thing was done to the skater Park So-youn(moving it to Park So-youn (figure skater)), which I believe is totally unnecessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naruto82 (talkcontribs) 18:48, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Wait - which redirects do you want me to delete? Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:30, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Hm? To me it seems very easy to mix them up. Sure, the English Wikipedia article titles use differing spellings, but both names have exactly the same pronunciation and Korean spelling (Hangul박소연). Thus, the only way to tell them apart is to look at their English or Chinese name spellings, which won't help if you receive information about them from Spoken Wikipedia or any other audio source. Incidentally, Japanese Wikipedia claims that the English name for Park Soyoun is Park So-Yeon, so there isn't even consistency on different Wikipedia projects on which transcription systems the respective Koreans prefer to use for their names. --Stefan2 (talk) 22:14, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


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Nomination for deletion of Template:FoP-USonly

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:FoP-USonly has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. 9carney (talk) 19:33, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


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bu liao qing (song)

I have created this article about the song. However, it is tagged for speedy deletion under A9 (no significant connection or importance of songs). Is this tagging justified, or must the stub stay? --George Ho (talk) 08:45, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

The tagging was justified but only by half. The problem is the article doesn't immediately appear to assert the notability of its subject (that's different from stating the subject is non-notable). The article should do that. However, based off your statement on the talk page, I've declined the CSD because you've asserted notability there, and it's a credible assertion. Magog the Ogre (talk) 08:50, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

So how much can I assert notability in this article? --George Ho (talk) 09:00, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

What? Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:08, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I must rephrase. How does the article not appear to assert notability of the song? --George Ho (talk) 09:09, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Upon a second look, it appears it does assert it with the last sentence. Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:11, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

File:Animax Asia logo.png

Is there anyway you know that File:Animax Asia logo.png is ineligible for copyright in the United States. To me, it would be eligible for copyright. C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 12:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it is; see commons:COM:TOO. What's equally important is that lettering is considered uncopyrightable in the US. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't consider that to be lettering. C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 15:15, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure how not. It clearly has the company name written. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:16, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

It looks too complex to be considered lettering. IMHO, this is similar to File:Disney XD.svg C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 15:19, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what to tell you. I'm fairly sure, having looked at precedents, that a US court would probably find it ineligible for copyright. If you want a second opinion, you might try commons:COM:VPC. Magog the Ogre (talk) 15:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I've started a discussion. The discussion can be found here. C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 15:28, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Now it has been nominated for deletion. It seems that it is ineligible in the United States but not in its source country. C3F2k (Questions, comments, complaints?) 17:41, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Correct. Which is what the template previously stated on English Wikipedia, you'll notice. Magog the Ogre (talk) 18:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

May I offer photos?

The photo appearing on "Forest Hill, Newark, New Jersey" (,_Newark,_New_Jersey) is my family home -- and specifically the rear view of the home. As far as this Historic District is concerned and this home in particular, may I contribute additional photos? PS: The home was originally built by Dr Earl LeRoy Wood, a cardiologist who spent half of each year teaching and practicing in the US, and the other half of the year teaching and practicing in France. The design is by a prominent architect Clifford Charles Wendehack, who collaborated with landscape architect Frederick Law Olmsted on several projects.

Please advise.

Mrkc225 (talk) 19:13, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes. You may upload any photograph on Wikipedia that you like, as long as it is relevant to the encyclopedia. You can get started here: commons:Special:UploadWizard. Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

May 2012

Please do not attack other editors, as you did at User Talk:Zeng8r. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Nice. Zeng8r (talk) 11:51, 26 May 2012 (UTC)


I have responded to your e-mail, you appear to have sent it twice so in case you do not get the second I sent I am telling you here, Nangparbat added the reference you are referring to [1] Darkness Shines (talk) 13:09, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

"Now Commons" images

Sorry about that! I thought I was successfully uploading them to Commons, but apparently there is a bug on my end of the system which was preventing that. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 14:14, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Your ANI close

Dude ... I EC'd with you on ANI, and I think it was in important statement: it was going to say ": Note On JCAla's last block, I noted that it might be necessary to place an IBAN between JCAla and TopGun ... it's starting to look more and more needed. This is growing ridiculous" ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:16, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I already called for that on AN3 a while ago. I think it's time to implement it. Ready to put on your admin hat and bring it up at ANI? Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:22, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Don't see how JCAla got related to this here (other than the fact that he decided to comment against me on that report which is not my fault). --lTopGunl (talk) 22:17, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Your closure and following warning on my talk page when I had done no wrong was an abomination. Your sense of balance in approaching this has been subprime and only gets worse, stay off my talk. Stay away from me. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:38, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/4 2012 Pulitzer Prize Winners

I don't know what to do. In my talk page, TonyTheTiger will just... I don't know how to summarize. I have created four separate nominations, but Tony just opposed. What do you think? --George Ho (talk) 04:18, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

He told me that he would do something if I do not do something to the four separate nominations. --George Ho (talk) 04:23, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

George, I literally know absolutely nothing about the featured content process. Please consider asking another of your mentors who might know something about it. Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:08, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

And the history repeats...

I got another one (Vibhijain)... Followed me to five articles in a go first: [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. I ignored this and did not report or even warn though I mentioned it to an administrator (Salvio) on discussion of another matter without reporting as it did not look clean to me. Later I see him here yet again opposing me [7].. and decided to caution him on this talkpage where I was ironically accused of 'harassing' him by the first mention of his actions in a civil way [8]. After this warning, he has again reverted me on another article [9] and then yet another one that I created today (and don't see anyway how he got there other than hounding) [10]. Also created a counter article [11] (which I really don't mind), but just proves some WP:BATTLE. Also gaming my 1RR not following BRD when I only revert him once and call to discuss [12]. Bet he'll be there at all my articles before you can count who all did the same a few months ago. Better stop it before some one games it off. --lTopGunl (talk) 15:44, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Have you tried to discuss it with this user cordially? Like, before you barged onto his talk page, guns ablaze, threatening him with administrator action? You might find it goes a long way. Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, this is quite civil in my opinion also considering the case that he might not have actually intended to, but this was proved wrong as he later appeared at other articles. --lTopGunl (talk) 02:09, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Telling someone you suspect him of meatpuppetry and warning him that you'll report him is not cordial, it's threatening. You'll attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:36, 9 June 2012 (UTC)


Hi! I know it is not your file but what do you think of this one? Free or non-free? It's the last one in the category. --MGA73 (talk) 18:20, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you again. In Category:User-created public domain files from September 2005 there is a few photos of signs etc. Would you call it 3D-works or 2D-works? To me it looks like the signs etc. are 3D and therefore FOP would apply in some cases. It is easier to PUF the files before they are moved to Commons :-) --MGA73 (talk) 18:33, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

1) Mark it {{subst:nsd}}.
2) 2D, by British standards. Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:54, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Sir Ogre :-) --MGA73 (talk) 11:25, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

IBAN violated

Hi, this edit blatantly violated the ban, it directly reverted content that I added, the IP, on the contrary to the claim, is neither a sock (not even on the same continent as me or Mar4d) nor a webhost - the the socking accusation itself is a troubling issue (I am not sure if it is an accusation on me or someone else). I don't think such socking claims should be made without first going through SPI and the exemption should not be invoked unless it is unambiguous. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:55, 5 June 2012 (UTC) - Further confirming this: [13]. --lTopGunl (talk) 23:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Note that the edit was self reverted after my report here and stands such (atleast as of now) to be in full disclosure.. so it is on your discretion now though I'll recommend to keep in mind your last talkpage warnings. I'll like to note though, that I don't use this exemption on reverting socks that push pro-Indian POV or something and let others do that, it should be treated fairly unless socks are established at SPI - though I don't think how an uninvolved (reader probably) who reverted could be a sock. I take such reverts gaming the system slowly trying to encroach on my edits and getting one up on the IBAN given that neither this is in a vacuum nor being reciprocated. On a sidenote, but relevant to this report, this is canvassing to avoid scrutiny of this IBAN report. --lTopGunl (talk) 17:11, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

The problem is that Darkness Shines is looking for an excuse to make edits to content you are editing as well. Or if he is not, he is taking an unhealthy preoccupation with pages you are editing (hence pushing the envelope by removing possibly copyrighted content and reverting possible socks). That is why I warned him. However, given the self-revert, I am not going to block. I personally still think that your editing suffers from NPOV issues, but that said, the ends do not justify the means. Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:52, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I actually reverted to a version previously agreed by all parties... so I am confident my edits were fairly NPOV. I agree with your judgement on the reverts (when I say that he's slowly encroaching on my edits with excuses), perhaps make it clear that "possible anything" is not an excuse for the next time, esp not reverting my edits along with it. --lTopGunl (talk) 00:43, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I[14] I added that, hence no vio on my part that I can see. Darkness Shines (talk) 01:38, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Above is just a revert endorsing the content I added/reverted in previously [15]. I should also remind how DS got to the article was hounding in the first place for which this IBAN was placed. I don't know, but should I take the response above as this will happen again and that the self revert was only to avoid getting blocked? --lTopGunl (talk) 02:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

It depends on when the IBAN first took place. If it was after January 3, then it looks like you'd both edited the content beforehand - I'm not familiar enough with WP:IBAN so as to say if there was thus any fault. If the IBAN took place beforehand, the Darkness Shines initially reverted to a version you'd earlier preferred (which is probably isn't technically OK but is OK under WP:IAR - he wasn't reverting you or somehow pushing his POV versus yours), but then just above used that edit as leverage later to be able to edit the section in a way more favorable to his POV, which would be unacceptable (I'm assuming I have the whole story without any hidden "gotchas"). Also, please don't indirectly talk to each other, especially in an inciteful way, as you (TopGun) just did above. Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:20, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Will not do that now, was attempting to explain the edit history more and the question directed to you. IBAN was placed after, but the content version being retained was the one I reverted in. It was later (before IBAN) reverted in my favour by DS. In this edit he reverted it to an opposite version and now said, it is not a vio, which would be a leverage attempt like you said. --lTopGunl (talk) 02:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The diff given above predates my edit so dunno what that proves, [16] this diff shows not only an Iban vio but that the user was well aware that I had edited that content previously. I will leave this now, I will take this time to say, should I revert a sock does not give me ownership of content. The other part of an Iban still owns it if they edited it first. Darkness Shines (talk) 02:33, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
What makes you think it was a sock? Other than, er, the rampant sockpuppetry we've already seen in this issue. Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:36, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Assume this question is for me? Big content dispute, Nangparbat doing the usual, as soon as he is blocked an IP from Sweden makes his one edit ever to wiki. I was wrong in that it was not a webhost but it just looked fishy at the time. Darkness Shines (talk),
He's Swedish? Yeah, if that was Narangparat you're fine to revert. Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:46, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

No, NP is from London if I remember correctly per some conversations on his talkpages and uses those IPs too.. 86 range. This IP was not from the same country or a webhost / proxy... but wait, where did I violate the IBAN? I was the one who made those edits in the first place and only restored those, specifically avoiding and mentioning that I did not restore the part that was reverted by DS before IBAN was imposed. I was about to go off after replying to your first response, but ...seriously? --lTopGunl (talk) 02:50, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I never said you did? Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:52, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Ah, it is hard to not seemingly reply and still have context... that part was about DS's comment: "this diff shows not only an Iban vio but that the". --lTopGunl (talk) 02:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Well shucks. If you're talking to him, then stop it. If you're talking to me, don't be allergic to mentioning his name - it's not the name mention that's a violation, it's the meaning behind a sentence. Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:57, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

RIght. I mean, why is this being inverted on me now when there's obviously no vio on my part. Isn't that an offense itself. --lTopGunl (talk) 02:59, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

No. Reporting a violation in good faith or discussing a violation in good faith is never a violation. Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:04, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
No Nangparbat is english, he has had two accounts today plus one IP. The Swedish one I was completely wrong on, it just quacked a lot given the timing. I shall get such checked in future before taking any action. Darkness Shines (talk) 03:09, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Another violation

I've reverted this IBAN violation (reverting banned users is obviously OK - an exemption much used nowadays - and that these were my edits anyway). This was last added by DBigXray and not Nangparbat. I edited this before - most of the content in the article is added by me. DS has never edited this article before. This was a fake editsummary by DS further encroaching on my's time you start blocking :s --lTopGunl (talk) 16:51, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

See my talk page for how I got there[17] See this[18] to see I reverted Nangparbat. I fully expect a boomerang to come into play here. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Further noting NP's edit was already correctly reverted by an admin and the article protected. The boomerang request on me should be treated as a second offense along with the fake edit summary. --lTopGunl (talk) 17:32, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Bugger me, I had not seen that Elockid had reverted Nangparbat. Of course given I cannot self revert due to the Iban violation of TG's revert I suppose I am screwed, so much for good faith editing, full on blockshopping and entrapment. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
BTW magog get another admin to block me please, I feel you have become to personally invested in this dispute to be blocking myself. Thank you. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:46, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Well this is quite funny, if you look at the next edit (Els) protecting the article, Nangparbat edit is still there, elockids revert did not happen so I was in fact reverting. Nangparbat after all. Still on my mobile but can give diffs tommorow Darkness Shines (talk) 18:07, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I am not a banned editor, nor even currently blocked. The revert of my error was a vio. As elockids revert never worked [19] as can be seen it that old revision it is obvious I assumed I was reverting Nangparbat. I should not be blocked for an honest mistake like this. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:49, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I can see how this can be a simple mistake. However, I do advise DS to be more careful. I'm not familiar with the IBAN as of now, so DS regarding your concern, I don't think it would be proper for me to take administrative action at this point without having sufficient knowledge first. Elockid (Talk) 01:40, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
More importantly, it was an admitted mistake, so blocking would be less than optimal here since we block to prevent rather than punish. And I agree, DS needs to exercise a bit more caution in reverts and slow down a little. As for DS's boomerang declaration, you are better off if you simply erase that word from your vocabulary. Admins aren't stupid, and in the rare instances a boomerang applies, we don't need prodding or finger pointing and find it generally unhelpful as it just adds drama where it isn't needed. As for reverting yourself, I'm not sure how that could be an IBAN violation as it is basically admitting a mistake and trying to correct it. Mistakes happen. As to how involved Magog is, I think you have to exercise good faith and trust his judgement to defer to another admin if he thinks it is proper. I don't want to get involved in this iban situation on a regular basis, just commenting on this one situation at the request of DS. Dennis Brown - © 12:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Pictogram voting oppose.svg Stale. This has been sitting around for a few days; apologies, but I have work, and I've been too mentally drained to deal with this when I got home. FYI, Darkness Shines has already had many many "he made a mistake this time, he should know better by next time"s. DS, what about this aren't you getting? Can you please be more careful? Magog the Ogre (talk) 02:08, 9 June 2012 (UTC)


Some things never get stale... lol. [20] [21] even on the intentional reverts... no socks around this time. --lTopGunl (talk) 04:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I see this was first added by an anonymous user on the 5th[22], removed by Darkness Shines on the same date[23], only to be undone by himself 20 minutes later.[24] How am I to determine who first legitimately added that content? Magog the Ogre (talk) 05:55, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
I added the content over the course of multiple edits, including the quote, not the IP, see here. TopGun and the IP reinstated that content and quote as seen on the above diffs. Darkness Shines removed the quote while reverting that IP (which did not turn out to be a sock), hence he later self reverted. But in this latest edit, he again removed that quote, this time himself. Hope that clarifies. Mar4d (talk) 07:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
[25]Mar4d adds it[26] I remove it. It is a wholly different edit to the one presented above, it is a different section from TG edit which was in the info box, I shall check now to see who actually added the quote. Darkness Shines (talk) 08:17, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Wrong, I added it into the article way before (5 June). This was the second time I had to re-insert it after another user reverted. The quote was also added by me. Previously, TopGun had re-inserted all that too, including the quote (refer to his edit where he has the summary Follow BRD now and complete the discussion). You removed the exact quote later (yesterday). Mar4d (talk) 08:19, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Ok here is the timeline [27] Added by Mar4d. [28] Removed by Dbigrayx. [29] Restored by Nangparbat. [30] I revert back to Mar4d. [31] removed again by DBRX. IP reverts him[32] which I revert assuming it was a sock, I self reverted this once I checked the IP. I have now edited this content twice. TG first revert of this quote was two days after I had worked it twice[33]. There has been no violation on my part, have a nice day Darkness Shines (talk) 09:03, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Australian copyright

Hi there, Magog the Ogre. Can you take a look at this discussion on my talk page regarding an image that was deleted as a result of this batch nomination? I'm starting to get myself confused and I was wondering, since you have a better grip on this issue, if you could chip in and help explain the situation. Thanks in advance. — ξxplicit 00:56, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


[34] Darkness Shines (talk) 10:15, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


I was about to warn User:DBigXray for improperly warning User:TopGun for NPA ... I really have now read it a dozen times, I still can't find a personal attack, ad hominem or not (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:16, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

He shouldn't have removed the comment, and definitely should not have warned TopGun, and even more definitely should not have WP:TEMPLARed him. But a reread of the comment on my part gave me the impression that it added nothing to the discussion, but was only further souring an already sour discussion. If TopGun wants to add something of worth to the discussion, he should do so without attacking DB's character (I have occasionally been guilty of personal attack or ad hominem myself, but that doesn't make it OK of course). He will actually probably agree with me on this point, once he's cooled down a bit. BTW, feel free to comment at the latest turn of events: [35]. Magog the Ogre (talk) 10:25, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
I am here, following the revert on the Talk:Chawinda , and seeing the above section i thought of clarifying. The comment was a direct violation of Wikipedia:CIVIL#Incivility and was done purely to disrupt the arguement's by mocking at me and deter others from commenting for fear of more personal attacks. I believe this anger is based on this threat on my talk page--DℬigXray 10:45, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
I agree the comment was non-constructive. Nevertheless, per the essay I already linked (WP:RPA), it's a really bad idea to remove someone else's comments towards you on a talk page that's not yours unless they are unambiguous personal attacks (e.g., "go die in a fire, you obnoxious dunce.") because it only makes the situation worse. It's also not a good idea to WP:TEMPLAR anybody in a dispute. Magog the Ogre (talk) 10:55, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
I wasn't aware of WP:RPA and had removed the comment because It was specially designed to hurt. That message might appear random to a person who is unaware of the context but it was a direct mockery to an 8 month old comment on my talk page by another user regarding a dispute with topgun. I am not giving any diffs as i dont want to waste time in digging deeper into graves, as that will only bring up foul smell --DℬigXray 11:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Understood. But for the sake of trying to run a large project, we need to be careful as a community to try to treat everyone equally. In this case, we generally discourage the removal of another person's comments by the person they're directed toward, as it just makes an already nasty dispute turn into irredeemable nastiness. To edit Wikipedia, one must simply have a thick skin sometimes. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:12, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

"direct mockery of an 8 month old comment" - how childish. Seriously. No wonder issues never become resolved: if you're still pissed off about something from 8 months ago, then the problem is not with them, it's with you. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:25, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

yes, thats why I had asked to rephrase and comment again in a constructive manner on TopGun's page. I hope that my message on TG's talk will be taken in good faith and will be corrected as one expects from a gentleman. --DℬigXray 11:26, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

A gentleman does not a) remember an 8-month old comment, nor b) template the regulars in the first place - two wrongs do not make a right, so REMOVE the template :-) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:42, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

sorry for the late comment was away In response to BWilkins above then the problem is not with them, it's with you,
  1. I guess there is a misunderstanding here. As you can see from TG'g comment on Talk Chawinda, I think its not me but TopGun that had been recalling an 8 month long incident with an obvious intent of disrupting the talk page discussion
  2. I dont care what happened 8 months back but an attempt to recall the 8 month old incident that too on the talk page of an article that is in dispute and being discussed by a number of editors is obviously not a thing one would appreciate. Commment on Content and not on editors is something that should be followed more seriously specially in a dispute, this is the message that needs to be conveyed and and so was conveyed. --DℬigXray 12:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


(edit conflict)(Sorry for the cross talk on DS's talk page) it was on my watchlist and had commented there for the sake of context, as i felt a bias I am ready to strike off my comment if its that disturbing, regards--DℬigXray 10:57, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

You can accuse me of bias until the cows come home, and I won't even bat en eye, so long as you are just genuinely curious and don't have a chip on your shoulder (and frankly, not really even then). No need to cross out anything. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:00, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Thanks, although i could not understand much from the idiomatic statement above, but i guess it means you dont mind. regards--DℬigXray 11:10, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

wikt:until the cows come home, wikt:bat an eyelid. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:13, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Keep local why?

Hi! Do you remember why you wanted to keep this file local? --MGA73 (talk) 12:50, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

The uploader wants to keep a local version of his files for the purpose of a gallery (see User talk:83d40m#File:Tethys 83d40m AntakyaMuseum Turkey-fix2.JPG). Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:25, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Okay... But user could also just move all the files to Commons and add a user category to all the files on Commons. --MGA73 (talk) 19:41, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah that's basically what I said, but 83d40m has a very specific way of doing things that he doesn't want disrupted, and F8 doesn't give me the liberty to ignore his reasoning, no matter how frivolous I think it is. Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:44, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Is the world going mad?

So TopGun gets slapped a 24-hour block for apparently making a trivially disruptive comment yet no sanctions on DS for violating the IBAN? Is it just me or have the admins put their priorities wrong, and the world has gone mad? Mar4d (talk) 07:24, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Talking about IBAN violations, got one more for you. Mar4d (talk) 09:43, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Already fixed that one, unless you mean TGs violations at ANI Darkness Shines (talk) 09:48, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
There's a section "IBAN violation" on my talk page since I couldn't report elsewhere then. Drop a note on whatever you want to do / not-do about it, when you're free. Btw, I can't possibly violate at ANI as that discussion is about IBAN (and resulting further sanctions from the discussion) - above, however, is neither a report, nor a query from admin and you should act on it. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:13, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Comment, no doubt Magog will again call this wikilawring, however my comment above is a report, which I mentioned on ANI and he obviously ignored. The thread in which TG violated the Iban has nothing at all to do with the Iban, it is a discussion about a site ban. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:19, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
BTW, this is a vio of the spirit of the ban that you keep on about Magog [36] given it so obviously refers to me Darkness Shines (talk) 16:28, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
[37] this was in a report too, not a vio - neither are any comments made at the ANI IBAN discussion which is about in one section removing it and at another escalating it.... it was also last clarified making IBAN reports in replies to IBAN reports unless they lead to the them were blockable. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:53, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Sal was very clear [38] Darkness Shines (talk) 17:17, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
[39] I must admit, I am curious as to how many you will let go, and how you will spin it so it is my fault. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:42, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Admins and cowards

The fact is admins have been pathetically useless at handling DS you cannot even keep him from violating his IBAN so you choose to block both and make an example of TP since you know TP is civil and will not call you lot "wankers" or "pricks" I know Reagentspark is fond of being called a wanker by DS thats why he wants TP blocked for a week for a violation he did not commit admins please grow some balls and deal with DS thats the root of the problem no hounding by DS means no reporting by TP its actually not rocket science I do understand some admins may feel threatened by DS and his aggressive style but hes not going to come out of the computer screen and grabs your a man and stop DS from hounding (with whatever block indef most likely) TP and it will be over ! (talk) 08:25, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

and before DS comes along saying hes reverting Nangparbat tell him to shove his excuses where the sun dont shine I have not been following him or his edits hes just doing his usual Diva act playing the good cop while provoking TP by gaming the system with my name (talk) 11:21, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Who's TP? If you're talking about TopGun ("TG"), it's unfortunate they are unable to take the higher road and not react to childishness, if they were wise enough to do so, they likely would not be blocked nor part of a ban discussion (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:06, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Let me see if I understand this: the guy who is a prolific rulebreaker, has ignored countless attempts by the community asking him to reform, and even turned down a chance for a clean slate: this guy has the balls to complain about someone else rulebreaking? Magog the Ogre (talk) 13:30, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

What's going on?

So now that I'm unblocked, I've to face personal attacks and random harassment from editors that already turn up replying for each other point to my block log to mock around when I merely warn an unrelated editor for his three reverts (along with diffs)? Sever POV pushing allegations are, I'm sure, pointy personal attacks - esp since I was even blocked on only a remark on mentorship. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:58, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't know why you're even posting here. Are you expecting me to warn someone for awarding a superfluous barnstar? What about the "personal attacks and harassment" you made toward another editor that just earned you a 24 block from BWilkins? Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Really, that's why I posted here. What I wrote was not even near to this... just a comment on being contradicted by one's mentor... this one is a POV pushing allegation without any evidence (and in a barnstar?). If I can get a block for that much, this is serious enough to report. Or should I assume for the next time that this edit was okay? --lTopGunl (talk) 05:43, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

No, TopGun, I am not still beating my wife, and you should not assume it's OK. Your edit was removed because you directly addressed a user's attempt at dispute resolution by engaging in an ad hominem in such a way that it significantly worsened the discussion regarding an attempt to fix Wikipedia content. It was not personal communication on a user talk page in which the user being "attacked" was uninvolved. Worse, after your comment was removed in attempt to get the situation under control, you not only restored the comment, but refused to take it down upon warning. And stating that someone is committing POV pushing is not a "personal attack" or "harassment." Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:24, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

File:1973 Susan Strasberg.jpg

This is tagged as possibly unfree, yet we hope recommends that you use one of your bots to move all revisions to Commons. What do you think? --George Ho (talk) 15:34, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I wonder if you have a bot to move all revisions of this file, or today is not the right time. --George Ho (talk) 04:41, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

YesY Done. No opinion on the merit of the PUF discussion. Magog the Ogre (talk) 07:51, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Correct image OTRS received

Hi There, the correct permeation has been received for this following deleted image and the image has been reinstated: File talk:Red lips wall decal example.jpg This serves as a FYI. Ticket 2012061310003108. Is it ok for me to reinstate the image? CreativelySpecialised (talk) 13:06, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

The image was already undeleted by an administrator. Magog the Ogre (talk) 07:55, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

You and User:Fluffernutter

Hi - please explain - do you have private contact with the wiki editor User:Fluffernutter - Youreallycan 23:44, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

No, other than seeing him/her in IRC, if I recall correctly (and we had minimal to no contact there: nothing more than what you and I are having right now). Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:47, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

We are having discussion - please be clear - you have had off wiki communication with the user - yes? Youreallycan 23:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't even recall, I run into many different users in IRC, and I've been using it about a year, and I've lost my logs. I'm sorry I can't be more specific. But I assure you there has been no nefarious off-wiki coordination of blocks, especially of AndytheGrump. Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

You have failed to address my concerns - comments such as " I assure you there has been no nefarious off-wiki coordination of blocks, especially of AndytheGrump" fail and fail again - Youreallycan 00:04, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps the answer you're looking for is "either way, it would be none of your business"? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 00:07, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry to hear that. I wonder if you didn't have an opinion before you got here already, and nothing I said would have assuaged your concerns? Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:06, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

File:Model 1850 Ames Cadet sword compaired to the 1840 Musicians sword.jpg

Hi Magog, I'm not quite sure why you made those changes at File:Model 1850 Ames Cadet sword compaired to the 1840 Musicians sword.jpg. Did the OTRS turn out to be invalid? In that case, I really don't see how this can be used under NFC. As an illustration of those swords it is obviously replaceable. It may of course well be PD-old, but unfortunately the uploader has so far failed to clarify its original provenance. Fut.Perf. 05:34, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

To be honest, the OTRS ticket is a bit of a mess and hard to decipher. Could you contact User:Sphilbrick who could best tell if this image is free or not? Magog the Ogre (talk) 21:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, no surprise, the uploader's explanations on wiki were a bit of a mess too. But I've now found some indications that it may be PD-old after all (see the FFD), so maybe this will soon be moot. Fut.Perf. 22:10, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Wow, what a mess. Anything I can do to help? Or is it adequately sorted out now?--SPhilbrick(Talk) 13:39, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Nope; seems it is both {{PD-UK}} and {{PD-US-1923-abroad}}. Actually, maybe you could leave a note on the OTRS ticket explaining that mess for anyone who happens upon it in the future. Face-wink.svg Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:25, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Square one

[40]. So the stalking will continue and I'll be told by admins to edit some of the billions of other articles that the wiki has without knowing that I did that and was followed there. Was the ANI closing to be strictly interpreted now... since the edits are contentious? Just note that this is meant for both DS and JCAla. Also see this [41]. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I've asked User talk:RegentsPark to look at this here too because he proposed the IBAN removal and closed that discussion. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:44, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea even what to tell you regarding the iban removal. I'm not even sure what it is you're asking. I say ask the admin who closed the discussion or another non-involved admin who !voted in favor of iban removal. As for Salvio's talk page, you've both been warned about bickering and cross talk on other's talk pages. How are you dumb enough to keep going at it? You can't say I didn't warn you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 08:31, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I was asking to stop the continued stalking and hounding. I've asked RP - he closed. --lTopGunl (talk) 08:41, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

This is an obvious sock, don't know whose, but am I allowed to revert it ? [42]. --lTopGunl (talk) 09:37, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Same thing I told Darkness Shines: are you sure it's a sock? If so, yes. Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sure... this is an obscure article but I've also asked for a CU (it wont attach it to a user but an undisclosed action might be possible). That's why asked you to take a look and see if you could term it as a sock too. --lTopGunl (talk) 09:41, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

It might be a meatpuppet, but in either case, it's some sort of "puppet" unless there's been some huge coincidence. Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:43, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
I wouldn't make a block over it. Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:44, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that was my point as there were chances some one wanting me to get blocked will ask for 1RR vios even on something this obvious. Reverting then.. thanks. --lTopGunl (talk) 09:47, 24 June 2012 (UTC)