User talk:Sitush

... or panic madly and freak out?

Have you come here to rant at me? It's water off a duck's back.

Somanth Bharti It is same somanth bharti. He owns Madgen Solutions both as per his election affidavit and ministry of corporate affairs. His photo also was published in one of the newspapers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.177.176.9 (talk) 14:59, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Happy Halloween

	Hello Sitush, Hafspajen has given you some lovely Halloween dogs , to wish you a Happy Halloween! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a Pumpkin Halloween dog ! Enjoy!

Brahmin

Could not understand the comment of your last revision of claimants of Brahmin Status, I quoted from a book written by Dr.N.R.ray translated By John Wood ,Orient Longman::I have no account in Wikipedia.117.194.203.68 (talk) 03:30, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid that there is a lot of socking going on at that article and some related ones. I cannot divulge why I was concerned that you might be another incarnation of User:Buddhakahika but I am prepared to tell an administrator by email. In any event, what you added said

The results of anthropological measurements and computations concerning the Namahśŭdras are quite remarkable. As far as bodily characteristics go they are of the same line as the Brāhmaņs of north India.

and your source was this. I cannot see that source but there are evident problems:

• The wording looks like you may have just copied the text from the source and is certainly not neutral
• The author, Niharranjan Ray, died in 1981 and the book itself dates from sometime before 1949 - that is old
• Anthropometry has since been rejected - it gave rise to such bizarre schools at scientific racism

• The whole Namasudra issue has been causing problems on Wikipedia for years because of POV-pushing by members of that community. If what you said is to be included then we're going to have to balance it with what everyone else says, which would be fine if Ray was reliable for the point.

I hope that this goes some way to explaining the issues. Feel free to raise it on the article talk page (Talk:Brahmin), where it might be seen by other people. Also, it probably would be advantageous for you to register an account: it isn't required but given the problems being caused by Buddhakahika and the unfortunate similarities between you and them, it might help to offset any possible future claims that you are in fact that person. - Sitush (talk) 13:54, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

• • I am the same user ::

Haplogroup R1a1, which has originated either in South Asia[22][23][24] or Central Asia[25][26] or Eastern Europe[27] is the most prevalent haplogroup amongst the Bengali Brahmins. The haplogroup is associated with the spread of the Indo-European culture in Indian sub-continent. A very high percentage of 72.22% among Bengali Brahmins which is also one of the highest found frequencies within world groups hints at its presence as a founder lineage for this caste group.[28]

Is this not Scientific racism in a new form ?What does this sentence , "The haplogroup is associated with the spread of the Indo-European culture in Indian sub-continent.",convey? Is it not scientific racism? If this is true for a community banned for 1000 years due to Hindu Apartheid , then the data are unreliable!!! 117.194.203.137 (talk) 03:32, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

I've no idea where you got that quotation from. As a general rule, it is best not to get bogged down in details about genetics in caste-related arguments. They tend to be used selectively, appearing used when a community wants to claim a high(er) status but not when it would be adversely affected. For that and other reasons, such as the often-speculative/small sample/highly qualified nature of the studies and the fast-moving technology, I'm always opposed to using them. - Sitush (talk) 09:14, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

• • • I am the same user ::

Not only that when PNAS monitored the % of R1a1, was maximum 40% amobng Indians , and then it sored to 30% high for .......communities when indigenous studies began, same thing happened to anthropological studies also (under B.S,.Guha) and these data are used more often for these communities than not. Yes this is the Bengali Brahmin page of Wikipedia(they never mention their mtdna).Of course they are more advanced but I do not think it is for what they are claiming so; your logic is quite clear, but what is the use of screening a particular community then!!!::117.194.202.119 (talk) 12:28, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

You've lost me here, sorry. Are you saying that you think the content should be removed from the Bengali Brahmin article, are you saying that what exists there somehow permits inclusion of the Ray stuff in the Namasudra article, or are you discussing some sort of generality? Apologies for the confusion: genetics stuff, in particular, can tend to make my eyes glaze. - Sitush (talk) 12:45, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

• • • I am The same person::

Considering everything , I just added the book of N.R.Ray in reference.117.194.204.234 (talk) 05:23, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

I've reverted you and am copying this thread to the article talk page, which is where it should have been in the first place. If you wish to discuss further, after reading WP:BRD and WP:CONSENSUS, then feel free to do so there. - Sitush (talk) 05:28, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

• • • I am The same person::

The discussion had been copied to talk page : It is nice: 117.194.216.144 (talk) 16:05, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

• • • I am The same person::

I do not know who You are and vice-versa but why can not you raise the issue of Scientific racism for the page "Bengali Brahmin" , what is the problem? Every one knows that authenticity is not above hegemony.I want to see you raise the issue at least once.117.194.198.252 (talk) 15:22, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

• • • I am The same person::

The Page "Nair" has started with some anthropologist's comment ; then why an acknowlwdged Historian , Anthropologist and Socilogist , Dr N.R.Ray's reference cannot be used in wikipedia , I do not understand your logic. If anthropological categorisation has become obsolete, then why is it being used there? 117.194.207.242 (talk) 05:34, 28 November 2013 (UTC ^^^ refrence

That is Dohakoshpanjika by Adwaibajra , given in Bangla Sahityer Itihas by Sukumar Sen : I think you are an Indian British .Use your connections to know it:

^^^ Hello Sitush,

Your Integrity that is what I was interested about and you failed.I still doubt you are a British, your forefathers must be from India , Kolkata , probabaly One of Bengali Brahmin origin.O.K.The matter is closed here.I never believed , definitely heard about it, there are purposive concerted and hidden POV regarding Caste Apartheid related issues of Hinduism. In respect of Genetic data it was proved without any doubt.Thanks .Best wishes for your future activities of Hidden and purposive POV.Good Luck.May Jesus save you117.194.203.234 (talk) 07:34, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

The Deletion Of The Chandalas::

Hi Sitush, a great work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bolpurbatabyal (talk • contribs) 10:36, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Mr Batu this is a very objectional language U r using here:Bengali Chhotoloke (talk) 06:09, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

ANI discussion involving you

I wanted to alert you to an on-going discussion at Admin's Noticeboard/Incidents. You are one of five editors to issue a behavior warning to MilesMoney. --HectorMoffet (talk) 09:24, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Only one of five? It feels like more than that. Mind you, they've banned more people from their talk page in five months than I've done in several years. I'm still compiling evidentiary stuff but find it depressing - I'll see what I can do. - Sitush (talk) 14:41, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Invitation

Hey Sitush, We haven't interacted much but I've been watching you for a while on the Austrian Economics dispute, and I appreciate you taking the time to try and be a neutral/moderating voice on that front. As you have been one of the regular editors participating in articles related to AE, and I was hoping I could convince you to participate in a small experiment on dispute resolution. It's formatted as a simple question and answer, with a hint of RfC/U, aimed at getting participants to talk with one another, recognize potential problems, and with any luck, commit to fixing those problems. The page is at User:Adjwilley/Austrian_economics and you are free to edit at your leisure. ~Adjwilley (talk) 00:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Note on Afd

I commend you for starting the Stromberg AfD. There are many more poorly/incestuously sourced BLPs of totally unnotable Austrian economists on WP. For just a few examples, see Ralph Raico, Stephan Kinsella, Mark Thornton, and Joseph Salerno. Note that they are all affiliated with the Mises Institute, and were created or heavily edited by User:DickClarkMises, a former employee of the Institute who currently edits its wiki. (Kinsella, an exception to this, actually created his own WP page after the previous version (created by Dick Clark) was deleted.) Steeletrap (talk) 18:30, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Steeletrap, don't canvass me about these, please. If you want to nominate something then just go ahead and do it. You know that I know of the existence of such "incestuous" articles but I'm not prepared to act as your stooge in the ongoing, highly personalised battle that exists between you, a few others and Carolmooredc etc. - Sitush (talk) 18:36, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

How specifically is the above "canvassing"? I just let you know of the existence of other similar articles; I did not attempt to persuade or frighten you into taking any specific action. It seems to me, Mister Sitush, that you are committed to being critical of other users. Steeletrap (talk) 19:21, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Stood alone at the back and pug-ugly. Yep, I'm not here as part of a popularity contest or beauty pageant!

It is a pretty blatant attempt to get me to take a look at other articles that you consider to have parallels with the one that I've referred to AfD. Gloss it in which ever way you wish but I don't wish to see it here, whether as canvassing, a "heads up", a moan or even a presumption that I am some sort of fellow-traveller in the ongoing libertarian debates. Sorry, but I am not going to get dragged into the MilesMoney/Steeletrap/Specifico vs Carolmooredc/Srich merry-go-round on anything other than my own terms. I've said this enough times that you must surely have seen it somewhere.

I'm not involved in Wikipedia as part of some popularity contest, beauty pageant or diplomatic training exercise. I call things how I see them on this page, often with lots of typos & mangled phrasing to boot. If you don't care for criticism or are particularly thin-skinned (you are, as I recall, quick to jump to WP:NPA) then this probably will not be a pleasant talk page for you because, alas, I've not been impressed. I've been dealing with POV pushing types, wikilawyers and pseudo-neutral contributors (ie: neutral when it suits them) for too long to be taken in. Then again, I'm always happy to forgive when someone changes tack. - Sitush (talk) 19:47, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Mister Sitush, please try to brighten up. It's the Holiday Season! Flash me a smile from time to time! (I am sure it is anything but "pug"-"ugly", as you put it.) I am making it my mission to de-Grinch you in time for the new year. Steeletrap (talk) 21:51, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't do holidays either & there's never much cause for special celebrations in my life. So, no cards, no presents, no feasts, no festive piss-ups. Rather than go all false, goo-ey and pleasant for a couple of weeks a year, I maintain a moderate consistency and manner throughout it. Doubtless some think I'm the cynical one but this is me: I'm not asking people to like it but I'm not short on friends, here or in the real world. They get year-round support & consideration from me rather than a fortnight of overload and nothing for 50 weeks. I may have a bottle of Joey Holt's Bah! Humbrew later ... but probably won't ;) - Sitush (talk) 22:04, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

All I hear is "Bah! Humbug!" Steeletrap (talk) 23:23, 9 December 2013 (UTC) :P Steeletrap (talk) 23:24, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

That's the wordplay - see the last entry in the list here. I don't need a designated time to give someone a present, tell them they're a great friend or call round for a chinwag etc. Nor do I hold any religious belief. I'm freed of all those marketing gimmicks, social pressures/brainwashing exercises etc. Each to their own, the only awkwardness being that I don't force my views on others but some idiots (notably, at this time of year, the doorstepping godsquads) try to force theirs on me. - Sitush (talk) 23:33, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Doc. Duke

Good evening, Mister Grinch.

I have a reading assignment for you regarding the little tête-à-tête we're having about "bias" on the Adjwilley page. TFD claims that Doc. Duke had purged the racism from his political agenda by the 1991 campaign (the one Rothbard wrote about fondly). You are ordered, my pupil, to read the Triple-D (Doc. Dave Duke) wiki to learn about the 'development' of his racial views, as this background knowledge is necessary for you to effectively evaluate allegations of "biased editors." (Particularly insightful is the quote from Duke's 1990 campaign manager about how Duke's stubborn insistence on attacking the Jews so much prevented him from attacking the blacks as much as he should). P.S.: I totally don't mean to be condescending with the 'pupil' stuff. I don't think I'm smarter than you (though I don't think you're smarter than me by simple virtue of the haughty (not to mention just plain hot) accent). I just thought "pupil" would have resonance with you, in the event that you attended grammar school in Britain. Steeletrap (talk) 21:45, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm spending all day re-roofing my house but I'm not likely to rely on what Wikipedia says about Duke even when I have the time to look at it. It'll be about as reliable as a chocolate teapot, as most articles about high-profile controversial people are. I sort of know his reputation but if detailed knowledge of him is required to understand another article then we're doing something wrong at that other article. - Sitush (talk) 01:38, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Pics please! As for Triple D, if you distrust his WP, I refer you to Google and his personal website. Steeletrap (talk) 05:14, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Adjwilley's AE pages

Hello Sitush. I understand that you've grown frustrated with the colloquy over at Adewilley/AE. I hope that at some point you will review your decision to drop off the thread there. In effect, Adjwilley's pages are like a WP Petri dish or terrarium which has replicated some of the processes which led to bad interactions in the AE articles. It's no secret that, in my opinion, the departure of Carolmooredc would set the articles back on track. I think this was clearly demonstrated by her behavior on Adjwilley's pages. I don't know, and am not inquiring as to, your view. Maybe you've "seen enough" and have made up your mind about the whole AE mess. If not, and if you decide that further participation would help you to understand the situation better, I hope you will consider returning when Adjwilley reactivates the pages. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 17:41, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

There is no point because it is inevitably going to end up with Arbcom. Adjwilley's exercise merely proved that the two sides are unwilling to move on either in terms of entrenched content positions or behaviour. Some things that you said were atrociously out of order, as were some that Carol and perhaps others said: the well-intentioned exercise is thus futile. I've been neutral on the content issues and that's where I'm staying but the real issue is behavioural and there have been few participants other than TFD, Srich and Binksternet who have shown any inclination to keep a lid on things. Frankly, it has been appalling to watch. If I were you, I'd start preparing your diffs now because ArbCom are not going to accept many of the claims that you have made without such things. - Sitush (talk) 17:51, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Some of your behavior has also been atrociously out of order, as I suspect you know. I won't disturb you again on this. SPECIFICO talk 17:57, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh, no. If I've done anything wrong then please do tell. Your remark sounds like a kneejerk comment but I'm certainly not perfect. - Sitush (talk) 18:03, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Kshatriya

Hello Sitush, Please refer to the discussion between me and Rajkris in the Kshatriya talk page. Have made a point-wise reply to Rajkris on my talk page (please see here). Need your help and guidance in formatting the intro section in Kshatriya article please. Please suggest how the intro should be written..--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 20:51, 12 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Sorry to trouble you, but please cud you help archive all content on my talk page before the current topic Kshatriya. I tried archiving but failed (have no clue how to go about it). Many thanks.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 21:00, 12 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Hi Mayasutra, I'm pleased to see that you haven't given up on us! I've archived your talk page as requested and I've also taken the liberty of setting up autoarchiving with some code right at the top of your page. You can fiddle with the details (how often to archive, how much etc) to suit yourself but I thought that you might find this more convenient - if you don't then just let me know & I'll turn it off. You've also now got a searchable archive box there, so that you get more easily dig out old stuff if you need it.

I'll certainly take a look at the kshatriya thing but it won't be until tomorrow or perhaps even Saturday. Can it wait that long? Is the world going to end before then? Would anyone bother telling me if it was? - Sitush (talk) 21:17, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sitush, Very many thanks for archiving, setting up autoarchiving. Never expected such a quick response. No prob, the kshatriya thing can wait. Am traveling next week and may not have internet access until early Jan. Please take your time and see how the intro can be formatted. Many thanks again.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 21:28, 12 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Ok. I hope that it is a pleasant trip - it reads as if you're off to see the family. I'll drop a note with Rajkris so that they know what is going on. - Sitush (talk) 21:32, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Sitush. Am going with the family. Just hoping snow does not ruin things....--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 21:41, 12 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Hello Sithush. Thanks. I will have a look this WE. I am really busy in my prof life, so not much time to write wiki articles unfortunately.Rajkris (talk) 23:26, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Rajkris, This has been a long standing issue. Previously my response to you (here) went unanswered (I request Sitush to take a look at that response too). Thanks, --Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 00:00, 13 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Good that we're all talking. Obviously, the Kshatriya article is quite a significant thing and this is reflected by the number of articles that link to it. You're both aware that I'm not unfamiliar with the subject matter and, yes, it is a tricky one. All this said, there is no rush to resolve any issues that either of both of you might think are present in the current version. It would be great to improve it but we are not (I think) dealing with a situation that involves copyright violations or potential slurs against identifiable living people (the WP:BLP issue). That you're both constrained by real life situations is no big deal: I'll do some reviewing of what has been said and will do some digging myself. When we're all around then we can progress things but until then work and family matters are far more important. And, Mayasutra, don't worry about the snow! - nothing can ruin spending some quality time with our families. - Sitush (talk) 00:41, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I should have added that the chances are quite high that I will be in hospital for the next stage in my medical saga sometime early 2014. That might throw a spanner in the works but it is all a bit vague at the moment. The person who will make the decision and do the op is someone whom I know from my days playing rugby ... and since I'm also responsible for fixing his computers etc, I think it is in his interests not to kill me off! - Sitush (talk) 00:58, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

What? Again? Take care Sitush. Health is most important. Everything else can wait (wiki won't be the same without you around for a while though; hope its not too long). Get well soon.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 01:36, 13 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

To Sitush : Take care of your health. All the best. - Rayabhari (talk) 13:36, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Sitush, regardless of our conflicts, I wish you good health. Operations sound scary, but it's good that you're dealing with your problem instead of letting it continue untreated. MilesMoney (talk) 20:34, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, all. The timing is still up in the air but it will happen. @MilesMoney:, I've been no stranger to the surgeon's knife over the last 50 years and am likely to remain on familiar terms with it: a combination of rubella and the propensity to do daft things like put an angle grinder through my steel toecaps will ensure that. - Sitush (talk) 06:07, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Wish you a successful operation, and a long healthy life ahead.... Ekdalian (talk) 06:28, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Please see my talk page

On why I don't want you posting there anymore, except of course official notices. And I don't intend to post on yours anymore unless official notices are needed. Thanks. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 15:20, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Do you really think I give a crap? I've not got your talk page watchlisted & have no intention of getting further involved in the dispute. You know both of these things - I've told you before - so why on earth you think that I might post on your page again is beyond me. So this looks like just another screwed-up, point-y post from you, doesn't it? - Sitush (talk) 16:09, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

You have left two new posts on my talk page[1][2] since I told you to stop. Neither we're official messages and both could have been left on the relevant talk or other pages. Please stop. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 18:07, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Sock-closet

It may be a good idea to keep a "sock-closet", with diffs, so you can "quote" directly when necessary, to substantiate new suspicions. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 09:10, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that there is any need because the record is there in the SPI archives & it is easy to select from it. Maybe it would be useful in complex cases but they are rare and I wouldn't know that it is complex until it has become thus, so it is a chicken-and-egg situation. - Sitush (talk) 09:42, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

MM

FYI, FreeRangeFrog had already reverted the edit, so your comment is now duplicated. (And I had posted a message to MM, hoping he'd fix the mistake.) – S. Rich (talk) 01:17, 16 December 2013 (UTC) Update, Bbb23 has already fixed the duplication! 01:19, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, and while you were here I was on Bbb's talk page. Truly, that message is jinxed. I could have reverted Miles as FRF did but that would have lost his own message and I'm sure his deletion of mine was unintentional. I'll let wiser people than me determine how to sort this mess out. - Sitush (talk) 01:22, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Looks like the merry-go-round has stopped. All is fixed now. – S. Rich (talk) 01:26, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

For the good wishes and for the story. I think I've heard it before, but one benefit of having an increasingly unsharp mind is being able to enjoy things like that all over again. As long as there's no reason to have a sharp mind on ArbCom, I should be fine... --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:31, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

@Floquenbeam:: Almost the Yogi Berra "it was déjà vu, all over again" situation? I would have thought that a sharp mind helps at ArbCom but is not the be-all, end-all of things because a well-formed request and the subsequent community discussions should assume that everyone involved needs a lesson in first principles. Sensibility, an ability to cut through the crap, humility, a willingness to read and re-read policy and the skin of a rhino all seem to me to be more significant attributes.

I've only been involved in one ArbCom case and I don't recall actually taking any part in it: I was named in the Doncram case from January 2013 but it was something of a reliatory naming and I was in hospital/convalescing around that time. That said, I seem to be on reasonably good terms with most of the current Arbs & that raises an interesting hypothetical: how many sitting arbs would have to recuse in the event that I was named in a future case. I'm hoping that it stays hypothetical! - Sitush (talk) 06:02, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

India MOS

Hi Sitush. I seem to recall a decision was reached (via an RFC maybe?) regarding adding translations into multiple other languages on India-related articles. Do you happen to have a link to that policy or RFC decision if you know what I'm talking about? OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 20:57, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Found it here. Not sure if there is any policy regarding Indic scripts in the infobox. Know anything about that? OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 21:07, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

The RfC then became codified as WP:INDICSCRIPT but it really was all a bit messy. For example, the Pakistan, Nepal etc projects were not explicitly informed and so the status of this when applied to articles about things/places/people that are now in Pakistan/Nepal etc is moot. Furthermore, there was a "kind of" revision that allowed scripts to stay in the case of populated places but only the script(s) that were official languages of those places. I don't think that this latter was taken to RfC but it did gain a rather vague consensus in discussions at WT:INB & I wouldn't be inclined to challenge it (although I did at the time).

My attitude to scripts in infoboxes can be seen here. Again, the original RfC was poorly framed and did not really deal with this. Not everyone agrees with my attitude but on the odd occasion that I can recall it being discussed there did seem to be consensus for it.

The whole issue probably needs a new RfC but that is time consuming and I'm not inclined to pursue it just yet. Common sense can apply to situations such as retaining scripts for native terms, eg: Varna (Hinduism) relates to a word and a concept of Vedic origin that must surely be ok to express as the original in the Sanskrit language. Similarly, it seems reasonably that the title of a movie that was originally released in Hindi should show the Hindi version of the title if that was used on publicity material etc. - Sitush (talk) 05:50, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Share your opinion?

For these articles:-

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Narayan Sai (2nd nomination)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ramendra Nath
• Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Territorial disputes of India and Nepal

If you like. Bladesmulti (talk) 11:09, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Austrian economics". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 24 December 2013.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 15:57, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Category:Former Janata Party politicians

Category:Former Janata Party politicians, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 16:48, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Vellalar

Hi Sitush, Have redone the Vellalar article. Need to expand the (new) section on Mutts; which will do once I return to base next month. In the meantime, please go thru Vellalar and fix anything amiss. Also need to redo the article on Velirs. Will be glad for your involvement in the Velir article. Thanks.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 17:56, 17 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Hello Sitush, Deleted the section on Mutts (for now) in Vellalar article. Will contribute to that section once I return. Please also go thru Velirs to fix things amiss. Have asked for citations and made notes in the Velirs article. Need to expand the article with more historical content though (for now clarity is poor). --Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 19:33, 17 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Hello Sitush, Rajkris has deleted content which I had thoroughly referenced, detailed and arranged in proper sections in the Vellalar article. Instead he reinstated the old version where he either misquoted or partially quoted references. Request you or Qwyrxian to look into it. Thanks.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 21:27, 17 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

He has removed my contents without any discussion. He's breaking wiki rules.Rajkris (talk) 21:38, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Wrong. Rajkris, you neither reply to points raised in talk page, nor do your citations support the sentences you make. You make your own fanciful interpretations such as this sentence "However, the Vellalars are still considered to be the most likely descendants of the Velir, etymological interpretations notwithstanding" (see this) So now I suppose either Sitush or Qwyrxian or both will intervene or this will go to arbitration. Sitush and Qwyrxian, the issue involves two articles, Vellalars and Velirs (Rajkris deleted well referenced content for both articles). Thanks.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 21:46, 17 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Please note Rajkris is edit warring on Kshatriya. He is reverting without discussing.-Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 22:23, 17 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

He is also edit warring on Velirs. Same issue. --Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 22:24, 17 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

I have added refs in talk page of Velirs. Regarding Kshatriya, I have discussed in talk page, I will add my comments on your talk page very soon.Rajkris (talk) 23:04, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Regarding Kshatriya, you have not discussed at all. My previous response to you also went unanswered. When are you going to reply? Looks like you want to keep reverting and then keep claiming you will reply. Why don't you reply then revert to your claims? Regarding your most recent change on Vellalar both Sailendra Nath Sen and Venkatasubramanian do not say Vellalars are of the ancient Tamil order (Chera/Chola/Pandya/Sangam era). Where is the reference for your claim that Vellalars "had close relations with the different royal dynasties"; and that "Literary, archeological sources trace the origin of the Vellalars to a group of royal house chieftains called Vel or Velir."? Already explained to you Iravatham Mahadevan does not use the word Kshatriya so why are you again mentioning the term Yadu "Kshatriya" clan; especially when Iravatham Mahadevan makes it clear he thinks Velirs are aryanized descendants of original non-aryan people. Moreover that part has to do with the Velir article. Why is it being mentioned in the Vellalar article. Made it clear to you Rajkris, if you want to claim Vellalar descended from the Velir you must A) Provide info / details, if vellalars (all present-day claimants of vellalar caste) follow or followed indo-aryan kshatriya rituals until the recent past? B) Produce a precolonial or historical proof (inscription / epigraph) linking Vellalar to Velir. Merely quoting modern writers of colonial period who sought such a connection won't do. Why did you delete content from pingalanikanthu and tivakaram stating Vellala was a synonym for Vaishyas and Shudras in the 10th century? Why did you delete info from 1891 census? Why did you revert citation provided for other castes claiming Vellala status and intermarrying with Vellala families?--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 00:33, 18 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

I have other sources I will add by this week. All your refs are present. Else please add. Regarding Kshatriya, I will add my comments this week.Rajkris (talk) 00:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Now Vellalar article is fixed. Unless you meddle with it again. Next is Velir and Kshatriya. For Kshatriya, first you provide your answer. You were given ample time to respond. Unless you answer, you have no right to keep reverting. Merely claiming you will answer at some point of time won't do. First answer then revert. So am reinstating Kshatriya article to former version. Next is Velir article for which you reverted all the referenced content. For Velir too, first answer then revert. Take a look at the notes within the article asking you to (1) quote verbatim from the sources, and (2) explain relationship between Satyaputras and Velirs (since Satyaputras are mentioned as a group distinct from the Cholas and Cheras which are made up of Velir chieftains). --Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 01:16, 18 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

@Mayasutra: and @Rajkris:. I get after Rajkris for removing material that has been sourced when Mayasutra comes along and does the same exact thing. I don't know either one of you. I don't know who is right, wrong or somewhere in between. All I know is both of you complain about the other person and turn around and do the exact same thing. Both of you are behaving badly.

I've reverted the last Vellalar edits made by Mayasutra for removal of sourced material. I've reverted the edits and reverts on Kshatriya to the December 15th edits, the last edit before you both went at it.

If either one of you edits Kshatriya, Velirs or Vellalar, I'll block the person for edit warring. You have a choice. You can talk together like civilized people then do mutually agreed upon edits or neither one of edits the pages. As Sitush unfortunately knows what is going on better than I do, he can chime in when he gets back from the hospital. Don't know if he is there or not, but after to reading what has been going on today, he probably did get sick and checked himself in.

Ok. I saw the message and stopped adding content to Vellalar. Please compare what Rajkris deleted and what I did. Finally Rajkris reinstated exactly my version in the Vellalar article, except the Intro. I had my reasons to delete what he wrote in the intro. Please check the Velirs talk page. Posted stuff for him less than 15 minutes ago. I expect Rajkris to discuss those posts before entering content into the Vellalar and Velir articles. And if I know Sitush, surely he did not get sick reading this; for there are worse things Sitush has handled. I'd rather wait for Sitush to get well and handle this. Thanks.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 05:55, 18 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Hi, before discussing, I will first readd the ref contents removed by Mahasutra without discussion in Vellalar (still some to add) & Velirs pages.Rajkris (talk) 22:22, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Rajkris, No means no. Do not add any material. Leave articles alone. Discuss with Mayasutra before making any changes. You two need to come to an agreement before doing any changes. Bgwhite (talk) 22:31, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Ok. But I just added in Velir what he has removed and added ref to support that. This is what you proposed me earlier.Rajkris (talk) 22:36, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I did propose that before, then both of started more edit warring. Instead of the adding, reverting, adding, reverting cycle, you two must talk first. I reverted your edits. Note: I left two articles in a state where Rajkris edited last and one article where Mayasutra edited last. Bgwhite (talk) 22:41, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi all, apologies for the delay. I'm not feeling too good right now (nothing to do with hospital).

Bgwhite is correct: Rajkris and Mayasutra need to discuss the changes before implementing them. I'll try to get involved in any discussions but cannot promise when. Both articles have been subject to a lot of on-off disruption over a prolonged period and I have the feeling that it is not a black-and-white situation. When I do take a look at the talk pages, I'll be expecting to see refs to reliable sources and if any GBooks snippet views are among them then I'll be expecting co-operation in putting those views into context (ie: you'll need to be able to provide a copy of at least a couple of pages before and after the snippet and preferably the entire chapter). I'll also be expecting the sources to be modern and preferably academic - not stuff from the Raj period or newspapers etc. - Sitush (talk) 05:44, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Sitush, Since you are involved now, I'd prefer it if all of us discussed points on talk page but you do the actual writing in the article. That way neither myself nor Rajkris can get into an edit war or get biased or unfactual or counterfactual. I do have internet in some places where am traveling but cannot contribute to discussions pertaining points in an article, unless I return to base next month. Thanks.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 07:04, 21 December 2013 (UTC)Mayasutra

Precious again

Elites in India
Thank you, Labutnum of the Encyclopedia, for quality articles on people in India Under British Rule, such as James Tod, and for calmly carrying on, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 339th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:11, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Well deserved. Binksternet (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks you both. - Sitush (talk) 11:08, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

AfDs -- technical question

I'm trying to figure out the relationships between WP:WikiProject Biography/Deletion sorting & WP:WikiProject Deletion sorting/People & the AfDs which get listed in Category:Proposed deletion and WP:AFD. (I do see him (Riggenbach) listed in CAT:AFD/B.) It looks like the first two are actual AfD discussions. Am I correct in thinking we have three forums for such nominations? (If you have a short answer, I would appreciate it. If it is more involved, please ignore and I will figure this out myself.) Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 18:07, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I've no idea. I've never really looked into delsorting but thought that its purpose was akin to categorising, causing an AfD to appear in various related sets that were in turn transcluded by various Wikiprojects. That said, wasn't Riggenbach the nom that that Twinkle barfed? Maybe that is where the problems crept in? - Sitush (talk)

Okay. Thanks for your thoughts. – S. Rich (talk) 19:49, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Articles for Deletion

Hello Sitush. Hope you remember me. I have some doubts about nominating a few "related" wiki articles for deletion. The articles that i intend to report are Tamil American & Tamil Australian. While i understand that the terminology "British Tamil", although unofficial, has been mentioned in news articles, the other two, namely Tamil American & Tamil Australian are totally unheard of. Neither of these countries (United States & Australia) have used these terminologies for "census, immigration & other govt" purposes nor have their media used them in their articles & reports. These people have always been called/listed/reported as "Indian American/Australian" or "Sri Lankan American/Australian" based on their country of origin. The sources cited in these articles "have not mentioned them as official terms", but they simply contain some statistical data regarding the number of tamil speakers. I'm sure this factor doesn't qualify for the creation of these articles in wikipedia. I haven't seen a "Gujarati/Malayali/Sindhi American" wiki article and i wonder what's the need for editors to create such pages. Are we going to allow these frenzied creations/edits of some lingo fanatics? Do they fall under "no indication of importance deletion criteria"? I guess Kannada American & Bengali American too qualify under the same category. Thanks in advance. Hari7478 (talk) 22:24, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

They look very dodgy to me. You're probably aware that there is a lot of coatracking of Tamil subjects, although I've never managed to work out why that group is so particularly prone to it. However, I think you should probably raise these two articles at WT:INB - find out if there is indeed more notability of the subject than is apparent to you or me. Then take them to AfD if there isn't. - Sitush (talk) 11:15, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. But i'm wondering how do i go about with it. Well, i know the procedure. But... could you suggest a title/heading? Hari7478 (talk) 20:31, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I've opened a pre-AfD discussion here. Let's just get a feel for the notability before pushing it to AfD> - Sitush (talk) 20:44, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I've reposted the same in the WT:India noticeboard. I've also reported the Kannada American & Bengali American pages. Hari7478 (talk) 20:54, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi

I would be grateful if you would be willing to clean up the article Islam and Sikhism — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nawabmalhi (talk • contribs) 23:12, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

No, sorry. I don't have the time or inclination to look at these comparative religion articles. - Sitush (talk) 11:12, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Minor clans/gotras

Hi! You have been PRODing and getting many minor clan and gotra articles deleted. Its evident from existence of various such article that they are of interest to some people. (That "some" is true to say if they all are not created by socks.) In some cases you also have passing references of names in various books. Given that they are of interest to people and that we have some reference that such a name is used to refer to some clan/gotra, why not simply redirect it somewhere? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 05:05, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I do redirect, if it is reliably sourced etc. I haven't PROD'ed that many but I was told at VPP that this was the acceptable way to go. Don't forget that notability requires discussion about the subject in multiple independent RS - if none exist then the article should not be here. There is no article for my last name, why should there be one any other non-notable last name? - Sitush (talk) 11:05, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Well... i haven't followed your all PRODs. So if you say you have PRODed only those that really were worthless, then i will believe you. But hey, notability for having articles is way much different than of having a redirect. Are you sure you don't have article of your surname? There is a disambiguation-like page present. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 14:44, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

An article about a last name would have to discuss the name, eg: Sharma. That article also illustrates another potential usage which sometimes is seen, ie: what effectively amounts to a disambig page that lists all people with the name who do have articles. In the absence of notable people or information concerning the name itself, the thing would have no place here. Just existing as a name is not something of any great significance, nor is an undiscussed passing mention/namedrop (sic) in rubbishy Raj sources.

An added complication with these gotra articles is that they often could be applicable to more than one caste, which makes redirecting impossible unless some sort of sourcing exists. - Sitush (talk) 15:29, 20 December 2013 (UTC).

Merry Christmas

Soham (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the Christmas cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas3}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Soham (talk) 13:43, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Kumar Suresh Singh

Survey of people of India by KS Singh is not relible source? what sort of sources one should refer to while using citations for certain gotras/clans etc, could you eloborate on that?.ThanksMkrestin (talk) 10:44, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

The People of India is a massive set comprising two series. The "national" series is reliable and was published by Oxford University Press; the "states" series went through numerous publishers and had little oversight from Singh (who died part way through anyway). It is the latter series that is not WP:RS. It has been discussed at WP:RSN somewhere in the past but the gist is that it basically reprinted content originally written by Raj gentleman-ethnographers/historians such as H. H. Risley and James Tod, often without even acknowledging that it was doing so. Anything used from the states series needs first to be checked against those old, unreliable sources etc, eg: to ensure that it is not plagiarised amateurism. The entire PoI project was also massively influenced by political considerations: it was not an independent exercise and was closely tied to events such as the Mandal Commission, meaning that much of its output, as with the Raj publications, was driven more by a desire to set a political story than to investigate using accepted methods of anthropology. - Sitush (talk) 10:54, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, to answer your main query: modern peer reviewed ones published by academic presses etc. Most of these gotras are simply not notable and only appear as passing mentions anyway. There's a related thread regarding this & PRODs two or three sections up above. - Sitush (talk) 10:58, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

What if the sun is shining and it's raining dogs - or the cats are shining and the rain sees dogs - or something like that

Whatever... Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:52, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

India Against Corruption

Read your note on perceptions of "legal threats". It was because you again raised wandering into legalities that we felt obliged to clarify further - to you and to nobody else (perhaps we erred by not leaving that message on your personal talk page).

IAC has absolutely no problem with waiting till as long as WMF wants, provided all text linking and/or associating "India Against Corruption" with Anna Hazare's (Jan)Lokpal andolan (and some other relatively minor amendments) is removed simultaneously.

We shall record our detailed objections to all sources cited by you in this articile, and shall show how you have selectively manipulated sources to disparage us.

As mentioned we are also preparing a list of secondary sources/references where IAC is mentioned.Several of them seem to have been deleted from past versions of this article, again to disparage IAC and promote "Team Anna".

Finally IAC is not here to edit Wikipedia, We are here to get corrected palpably wrong statements concerning a certain scandal where IAC name was misused by a gang of persons and we are being regularly harassed online by mischievous forces like those anonymous persons in blogspot.com which another experienced Wikipedia editor has just seen fit to use as a reliable source in Wikipedia to further defame IAC.

PS: If you still believe that we are not the "India Against Corruption" - but some small raucous group of persons, you should seriously sit this session out. 2A00:2381:72D:0:8813:DF3A:8CFE:F9E (talk) 15:43, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Please read WP:RGW and don't post any more of this bilge here. You are threatening legal action all over the place despite having been made aware that the matter has been raised with the WMF legal people. I'm not frightened of you and neither you nor anyone else involved with that non-notable organisation can sue me but this is becoming ridiculous. You are repeating the same stuff across numerous forums and the only thing that is apparent from your tendentious efforts and those of AcorruptionfreeIndia before you is that no-one is seeing much merit in your claims. - Sitush (talk) 17:15, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

You review new pages?

That are related to indian-subjects? Thanks Bladesmulti (talk) 16:36, 21 December 2013 (UTC)