User talk:Johnpacklambert

Olympics articles

I found a way to grab most of the annoying stubs (stub articles about non-medalists with no other info) out of the categories using WP:PET. Just in the 1900 Olympics articles alone I found over 200 using this filter. User:XyNq/sandbox/1900 Olympics deletion candidates ~XyNq^t_c 19:36, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

• • That is crazy. Especially since the 1900 Olympics was much smaller than later ones in number of participants.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:38, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

    @Johnpacklambert: I created a few reports of all offending Olympics articles for the 1900-2000 games that were less than 1kB (about 2,000 articles). Most of these should be fine to delete and wouldn't get pushed out of a batch for some reason, although there's well over 7,500 just in the 1900-2000 summer catalogues if you increase the maximum article size to 2.5kB. This is a mess ~XyNq^t_c 21:39, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

    A lot of the stubs seem to either be from retired users, or Lugnuts. Actually Lugnuts seems to be behind the stubs with infoboxes, which usually bump the article above 1kB. ~XyNq^t_c 21:43, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

    Many of which he turned out in less than 5 minutes. In fact sometimes he turned out 10 or so such bios in less than 15 minutes. He seems willing to figut tooth and nail against any deletion of any Olympian bio anywhere.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:07, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

• In some ways the worst Olympic related articles are the stubs on people who were competitors in the Olympic arts competition. This competition was not even close to major enough in the arts world to make someone notable for competing, and probably not for even medaling. A lot of the articles only mention that participation. If that is all there is on them, then we pretty much can delete them. I have tried, but often there is more on the people, so this is a whole group of articles that over emphasize sport related endevor at the cost of even understanding the full arts career of the person, let alone their full life.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:59, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
• another way to look at things is Olympian articles that have only one or two sources, especially when those sources are sports tables that say nothing substantive about the individual.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:02, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

1901 births

Category:1901 births has 5,808 entries. I am about to revies it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:05, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

• This category now that I have review it now has 5,726 articles.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:50, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Danish expatriates in the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Danish expatriates in the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:48, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Yugoslav emigrants to Greece

A tag has been placed on Category:Yugoslav emigrants to Greece indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:53, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Ned Brooks

Ned Brooks may well be notable for bein moderator of meet the press. We need to have some actual sources though.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:19, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

A thought

I'm thinking the battlegrounding on his talk page has gone on long enough, and it probably won't end well for anyone if it continues. Maybe it's time to stop posting AFD notifications? They are not compulsory after all, and he has all his kittens watchlisted anyway. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 13:47, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

• • Only if you promose to stand up for me when he tries to take me to ANI for not notifying him.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:50, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

• What if you ask Lugnuts if they'd prefer if you stopped the notifications? I think that has helped in other cases.

It might also be worth noting that an awful lot of the notifications you have posted there have ended up as not being deleted - by my calculation around 80% of the recentish ones that I could find - with 20% being flat out kept because sources were found; in the 20% of cases where deletion was the outcome I'd argue that there's a case for redirect in all of them as well fwiw. There are ATDs in most of the cases you are sending to AfD - perhaps that's a more appropriate route to embark upon?

I'm not watching this page and only came across this discussion by chance. If you want me to reply to anything you'll need to ping me. Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

I and other editors have tried to redirect such articles. Every time we redirect Lugnuts reverts it. so taking the pages to AfD is the only way to go.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:25, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

I think it's highly unlikely they would, having previously requested that others stop. Anyhow, any contribution I made to such a hypothetical case would be based on the guidance, which explicitly states "not required", and that such actions are obviously not been treated as "courteous", which is leading to non-constructive interactions. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:40, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

• I have to admit it is also frustrating that every time I explain how there are other people with the same name who are just as likely to be search targets and that as such the name is not a good redirect, my statements are ignored and Lugnuts just route votes to redirect without even saying anything as to why he things the sports person is a better presumed search target than anyone else with the name.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:43, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Deprodding of Martín de Álzaga (racing driver)

I have removed the {{proposed deletion/dated}} tag from Martín de Álzaga (racing driver), which you proposed for deletion. Feel free to nominate this article at Wikipedia:Articles for Deletion, as a more detailed discussion there may allow the establishment of whether or not the subject meets the WP:GNG.. If you still think this article should be deleted, please do not add {{proposed deletion}} back to the page. Instead, feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks! HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 14:40, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Natalie Robinson Cole

We have two listed sources on Natalie Robinson Cole but they both have the same writer. I am not seeing how the article at present would pass GNG, since 2 works by the same creator are not 2 indepdent sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:07, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

William Q. De Funiak

William Q. De Funiak may be notable. However our one actual source is the obitruary from the Santa Cruz Newspaper. He lived in Santa Cruz. This is not enough to show anyone is notable. If his works were actually widely used by law students he would be notable, but we need more than an obituary blandly stating such to show the truth of such an assetion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:49, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Celesta Geyer

I just added a bunch of sources to Celesta Geyer. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:05, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Stamp AFDS

Your opinion is requested here. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:39, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:People of British Guiana

A tag has been placed on Category:People of British Guiana indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:17, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

BLP watch

Wikipedia currently has 1,041,260 articles in Category:Living people.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:30, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Ben Hibbs

Ben Hibbs may have been a notable journalist. However we need more sources that treat him more broadly to show that. The source from the Eisenhower papers is not enough on its own.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:10, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Nominating your own articles for deletion...

...is not good use of the time of the editors who are already over-worked at AfD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Julian_F._Harrington

Recommend you just drafity and then delete your own article please. CT55555 (talk) 01:46, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

@CT55555:, one can't unilaterally draftify published articles, particularly articles that are eleven years old and have been edited by others. So, bad advice, and since the nom was entirely legit there's no call for scolding the editor. Herostratus (talk) 02:45, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

I don't think I was scolding, certainly not any more than you seem to be scolding me. A PROD would be a sensible path forward if anyone is too bureaucratic to consider that someone can't drafity ta 4 line stub that they created because it has a handful of minor edits from others. CT55555 (talk) 02:59, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Precious

Nine years!

Precious anniversary

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:14, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Russ McLeod

Hello Mr. Lambert.

I hope you do not mind a direct question. I came across the article for Russ McLeod and could find no sources to show this person meets GNG. I am not very familiar with deletion discussions on NFL players, so I wondered if you had any thoughts on whether it was worth bringing the article to AfD. Thank you! MarchOfTheGreyhounds (talk) 17:55, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Deletion vote for Easley High School

You voted to delete an article for a Easley High School, which is on the National Register for Historic Places (see [1].) You are the only delete vote thus far, I wonder if you would consider changing your vote so that a WP:SNOW close could be made? Thanks! Jacona (talk) 20:29, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

The nominator has withdrawn their nomination. Your delete vote prevents a snow close. Would you consider reviewing the article, which has many, many references and withdrawing your vote? Jacona (talk) 12:36, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Soviet militants

A tag has been placed on Category:Soviet militants indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:37, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Holland McCombs

Holland McCombs may be notable. We would need far better sourcing than we have at present to demonstrate this.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:52, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Please refer to me as Mr. Lambert

I would ask that all others please refer to me as Mr. Lambert, unless using my complete user name, preferably written out as John Pack Lambert.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:23, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Mr. Lambert, you may want to consider changing your username. Jacona (talk) 18:48, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Or people could either respect his wishes or at least not refer to him by his surname which is both disrespectful and patronising. Spartaz ^Humbug! 18:52, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

@Spartaz, I'm confused...they asked to be referred to by their surname, which I did, but you're saying that is disrespectful? I'm sorry if I've made a mistake, but I don't think I did. Jacona (talk) 20:28, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Now I see the problem, and this one's on me. I misunderstood your issue, and apologize for the misguided suggestion. I don't believe I have ever referred to you as anything but your username or Mr. Lambert, but if so, I apologize for that too. Jacona (talk) 11:07, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

IMDb is not a reliable source

We have a policy that states that IMDb is not a reliable source. It is hard to believe that it is actually being enforced since we have thousands of articles where that is the only source at all.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:46, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

• Could you please provide a link.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:57, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Ani

Please see the discussion I have raised over Lugnuts' behaviour to you. Spartaz ^Humbug! 17:55, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion is at [[2]] 18:00, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

John Pack Lambert (this seems so formal but I will respect your wishes), I don't say anything often unless it's to try and help you. Otherwise I stay out of your way and let you do your thing because I believe it is a positive for the encyclopedia. I think you have wonderfully adapted to the restrictions placed on you and I still hold out hope they will be lifted at some point in the future. However, I will offer some advice now. You can accept it or not, that is your choice. You should read over the comments left by Rhododendrites at the ANI and seriously take them to heart. They are extremely sensible and a fair evaluation of the dispute between yourself and Lugnuts. --ARoseWolf 18:34, 2 June 2022 (UTC) --edited18:38, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Let me clarify, it is in regards to this statement, "When we have another article that explicitly mentions someone, yes, of course a redirect is appropriate, contrary to what JPL argued in that AfD." Lugnuts may not be correct in their goading, that's a civility issue that can be addressed, but your incorrect comment was based on policy that doesn't exist. My advice is to adjust your responses accordingly and if a proper redirect is proposed then it should be accepted as per policy right now. If you feel policy needs to be changed then propose that at the proper venue. It might not alleviate all the issues but it will give you the sure footing in a discussion turned dispute over policy. --ARoseWolf 18:45, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

• Now, because Lugnuts falsely posted on his page an accusation that I was tageting him, someone has proposed that I be punished by banning me from nominating any article created by Lugnuts from deletion. Such an action would reward Lugnuts for his falsly accusing me of targeting him. Which is all the more crazy since I had no nominted an article created by Lugnuts for deletion since last week. It seems people who go around making uncivil accusations against others are rewarded. At least in some cases. I hope there is not a will to impose such a truly over brearing sanction, but the fact that someone even proposed it is not at all a good sign.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:52, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Norman Raeben

Norman Raeben may be notable, but I do not see that justified by the sources we have. The one source we have would at best support a brief mention in the article on Bob Dylan where we might redirect this article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:33, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Ray Reeve

I really do not get how we justify an article on Ray Reeve. At an absolute minimum we would need to have sourcing to justify an article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:43, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Robley Rex

Robley Rex was kept at a previous AfD, but I really do not see on what ground merely being among the youngest soldiers in a war and then living a long time makes one actually notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:51, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

An attempt at a compromise

Hi John. I can see you are not happy/keen with the idea of I-BANS, which is fair enough. I've posted my comments here at ANI under the sub-heading of "Observations from Lugnuts". Now I'd expect you'll have very different opinions to the first six points I've raised, but what about the suggestion I've mentioned in the final paragraph (starts with the words "Everything needs give and take...") Thank you. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• The first thing you need to do is acknowledge that your false attacks on me of hounding articles crfeated by you were false, malicious and rude. One does not compromise by going on the attack, and accusing someone of all sorts of actions that have nothing to do with the scope of the discussion. The scope of the discussion is your rude behavior and false accusations that articles by you are being targeted, when you know full well the goal is to remove sub-stub articles on Olympains that in no way meet inclusion criteria. This is not a compromise proposal, because you give nothing. Now if your proposal was that I could nominate one Olympian article for deletion a week and you would not contribute at all to that discussion, that would be a compromise. What you propose is a less severe limit on my actions and no limit on yours.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

@John Pack Lambert & Lugnuts, what needs to happen here is true compromise. Look, I believe you both are here to contribute. You have a difference in opinion on what should be included or not. It's not like this is the first time anyone has had a dispute with the exact definition of the overly vague inclusion criterium. My point is, if you are both here to make the encyclopedia better then you must make meaningful compromises. No one wins if you both get sanctioned further, even if it stops the disruption the encyclopedia still loses because you both are incredibly intelligent, passionate, talented and thoughtful individual editors. I've come to realize that making the encyclopedia better is not including every piece of human history we can possibly throw in here. Neither is it limiting the growth of the encyclopedia to only information written about extensively. There is a give and take, as pointed out by Lugnuts, and the only way we get there is by legitimately coming together, ratcheting down the rhetoric, apologizing for any offense, listening to each other without immediately dismissing the others position and actively seeking to understand other perspectives than your own and respect them. Even if we can not find a way to agree we must accept the good faith legitimate position of others. And you are both legitimate and your position is legitimate. As Star Mississippi said, you both feel you are editing in good faith and honestly I believe you both are. Assuming bad faith in the other person here only serves to weaken the view the community has in your own position. My advice is to take the focus off each other, no matter what has been said in the past either recent or long past, and focus on how you both can improve listening to other positions in a discussion and incorporating it with your own into a solution. Neither of you are going to get everything you want. Make it work or I'm afraid the only destination you both will be headed for is further sanctions. Just my observation but I think the community has had just about enough of all of this from both of you. I haven't commented at ANI because I hope you both can find a way to fix this. Neither of you are a lost cause. I believe you can work together but you have to be willing to. --ARoseWolf 14:22, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Filippo Sgarlata

• On the Olympic Art competitors, my review of Category:1901 births just came across Filippo Sgarlata. He was a sculptor who was in the 1948 Olympic Arts competition. That is all our article says. The article was created by Lugnuts. the one source listed, Olympedia, has 3 paragraphs on Sgarlata. From the Olympedia article we learn that Sgarlata lived in the US from 1926-1932. We learn that he was a professor of sculpting in both Palermo and San Luca. He crfeated a gate for a notable building in 1961, and created some works that somehow were deemed to be "in line with fascists ideology". Is this one source enough to have this article survive? Porbably not? Was Sgarlata a notable sculptor? I am not sure, but really wish there was a way to get people to look into it more. I know there is a well developed set of notability criteria for artists, but I am less than sure what it is.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Artur Amon

Artur Amon was a person on an Olympic basketball team. I cannot remember if he played in one game or none, but it was not significant. Both sources are to sports refernece.com, which has been held to be a database that inclusion of does not show notability. I maybe should have been more clear about the matter when I redirected the article. Now I will have to wait at least until tomorrow and realistically until Monday, unless someone else wants to put this one up for deletion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:54, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

1900 births

Category:1900 births currently has 6,096 articles. I am about to review it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:50, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Olympics overwhelm us

There is a truly huge number of sub-stub articles on Olympians. So much so that you could read the whole set of articles on teams of 10 or more and come away not knowing anything except that those 10 people played in that sport at that Olympics. This is not at all a useful set of information to gain, and leaves no justification for having the articles. There is very little progress being made to change this. In some ways the ability of progress seems unlikely because of pre-1970 amateur rules, and other factors that mean that a good number of people involved in the Olympics before 1970 were not public individuals at all. We do face similar problems with articles on Japanese photographers which often say only "Michiko Kasumi (1905-1988) was a Japanese photographer." Often with just 1 source. I do not know enough Japanese to even know where to start. We have some other problem areas. A good number of our articles on members of state legislatures say very little, and some are several years out of date. Making it unclear if the person has served at all since about 2014. I have to admit that I sometimes wonder if it really makes sense to say every single member of a first level sub-national in a federal system legislature is notable. In some ways that presumption has lead to people turning out huge number of short and not very informative articles. It means that articles on even those who were among the top leaders of a legislative body do not say much. I have been guilty at times of turning out probably too many such articles too quickly. That was in part a response to the at least at one time oddity where in some US states we had articles on all current members of one party in the legislature but very few on members of the other main political party in that state's legislature. In a few cases (cough, New Hampshire, cough) we have I doubt ever even come close to having articles on all current members of state legislatures. The thing is that almost all these people will have been covered in published literature. It might take effort to get good sourcing on some though, but it does exist. Some states, like Wisconsin, have a much further back close to full number of articles on legislators. On the other hand articles on Wisconsin legislators are often very anemic.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:53, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

@Johnpacklambert: I've been back on trying to look at these Olympics articles again... It really is impossible, the number of them. It will take months of work to actually get rid of the ones we don't need. I guarantee you if I BOLDly tried to turn articles into redirects, it would get reverted by Lugnuts. ~XyNq^t_c 20:00, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Joe Appleton

We do not seem to even know which island in the West Indies Appleton was from. If somone can find more sources on Appleton that would greatly improve the article.

Weird, what Joe Appleton are you on about? I had a 4th cousin born in the Bahamas who was a musician. Govvy (talk) 12:45, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

• Sorry I did not link to Joe Appleton. He spent most of his career in Britain. He was a jazz musician.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:46, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

interesting, sounds like my cousin I never knew but heard about, my dad have some old records of his, didn't think he was that notable to have a wiki article. Govvy (talk) 12:49, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

The article is only sourced to All Music. I am less than sure he meets the notability guidelines for a musician. I have not tried finding more sources, and I have to admit I understand music guidelines less well than academic, politician or sports guidelines, so I am not sure if he is notable or not.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:51, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Nope, I asked, that article is a completely different Joe to the one I know. Govvy (talk) 13:51, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Allen Boretz

Allen Boretz has had a tag saying it is unsourced for just about a month shy of 10 years.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:50, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Thomas Forbes

Thomas Forbes is an article that has been posted as having no sources since 2008. I looked through the links to find sources, and nothing was looking to be about him. The name is common enough that it might take a really deep dive through sources to be sure. There seems to be a contemporary businessman with this name, and there are lots of other people with it. My initial search brough up nothing, and we need sources to verify. Not all poets are notable just because they published, but some people have claimed I have over done Proposed deletion nominations, so I am hoping this notice might get some interest.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Millard E. Gladfelter

Millard E. Gladfelter was president of Temple University. This almost certainly passes the notability guidelines for academics, since I am 98% sure this is a university at a level that being head of it is enough to show notability. We only have one sentance on him though. We clearly need more content on him. There are links to some sources that almost certainly say more about Gladfelter than what our article says. One can probably also find additional sources that could help expand the article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:45, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

• I did add one more source, and a paragraph or so more information. I am sure we should say more on Gladfelter. Here [3] are the google book results. Some of those are primary sources, and so of little help. I can also not access the New york Times obiturary. I am sure the Philadephia papers ran obituaries as well.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:57, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Enrico Garbuglia

Enrico Garbuglia does not have any sources. He is a late surviving war veteran, and that is all. I have been told that this is something some thing is a sign of notability, so I guess if cannot be nominated through Proposed Deletion. I may try and nominate this article for deletion tomorrow.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:40, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Gunnar Emil Garfors

Gunnar Emil Garfors is an article that has been uncided since at least 2009.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:49, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Elsie Gerlach

If Elsie Gerlach was actually "nationally know and respected for her contributions to pediatric dentistry" she is notable. However the fact that the one source is a publication of her employer does not bode well. We need indepdent, reliable, secondary sources to justify an article. If what the article is true those should be findable, but we need them.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:59, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

• This link [4] suggests there may be more sources out there. I am not seeing how exactly to get to it. I have to admit I do not think I have ever tried to dig up adequate sourcing on a dentist before.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:02, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

  @Johnpacklambert With apologies if these were reminders for yourself rather than for other people to chime in: I was intrigued by Elsie Gerlach and have done some searching for possible reliable sources. I am a new Wikipedian and still learning about appropriate sources, so these may not be suitable. If they seem to be, I would be happy to try adding these to the article when I have a little more creative power, but in the meantime for your reference:

  Her obituary, published in the Chicago Tribune

  University of Illinois Board of Trustees minutes, listing Elsie as Superindentant of Children's Clinic - this seems like something we could dig into further and perhaps get more info

  A fund in her name (the Gerlach-Barber Recognition Fund) at University of Illinois

  StartGrammarTime (talk) 08:20, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Jules Goldstone

Jules Goldstone was an attorney who worked as Elizabeth Taylor's agent. He gets some brief mention in realtion to her. I have to admit I do not think it adds up to enough to justify an article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:09, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Eduardo González Lanuza

Eduardo González Lanuza is a poet for whom we have no sources. There is one source on the Spanish article on him, but one sources is not enough to pass GNG. While poets are often notable, we need sources to show this, which I do not at present see.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:12, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Aubrey Otis Hampton

Aubrey Otis Hampton may well be a notable medical doctor. I am thinking it looks like he was. However, the sourcing we currently have on the article just does not to me seem that it quite passes the reliable source test, and even if it does one source is not enough to pass GNG.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:46, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

• I was able to find and add one source that went beyond what we had. However I strongly suspect there is more out there if someone looks hard enough. Finding information on past medical practioners is not my expertise.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:51, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Taiwanese cheerleaders

A tag has been placed on Category:Taiwanese cheerleaders indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:35, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Just a reminder

Despite ANI and some of the loudest voices (which are a minority), your work here is still appreciated. PRAXIDICAE🌈 21:36, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

• I do not believe it since so many people are supporting outright banning me from participating in AfD.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I do not believe my work is appreciated at all. I do not believe it at all. I thought I was working collaboratively with some people to develop a plan to advance some goals, but they are willing to support a proposal that would block me from contributing towards those goals at all. If I say anything more, if I say anything in my defence, or against the bad behavior of others, it is counted against me and people come up with more ways to punish me. John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

There are aspects of your work at AfD that are appreciated, and some that are extremely unpopular. I'm not sure you're interested in hearing my opinion on how you could continue your work and have it appreciated rather than contested, but I'll give it a shot. If you choose to follow this advice, I guarantee your work will be much more happily received!

First, I personally find that you've been doing better with your nominations very recently, after a spate in which it appeared to me you were not doing an adequate BEFORE. Keep up the thorough before! Another issue is that you frequently vote in AfDs with rather shallow arguments, and then tend to stick by your delete vote no matter what, even if the article has been clearly improved. It's not supposed to be about WP:WINNING. I personally generally do my own complete BEFORE, including searching newspaper archives, before placing a vote. This takes time, but it ensures that I mostly get it right. It's better to be right than fast. It often appears you are in such a hurry to get your !d votes out there that you don't take time to read the article, look for sources, and develop an informed rationale. Evidence of that can be found in the atrocious spelling and occasional bad grammar in your posts. Take the time to do it right, and you will get respect and appreciation. One final comment: it's normal to be wrong from time to time. Admit your mistakes. Follow up. Don't rush.

I hope you find this helpful. Jacona (talk) 12:56, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

While there is a proposal with almost no opposition to ban me from participating in AfD at all I do not really find your comments very encoraging. Especially since this proposal comes after my multiple attempts yesterday to began expanding and better sourcing articles. It feels like when I start to try to be more cooperative, people just attack me more. This is especially true, because people often try to use any AfD I start that does not result in a delete as a reason to go on a crusade against me. I do appreciate your comments, but they do not give me much hope with the attempt to stop all my participating in AfD havign such broad support.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:03, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Mr. Lambert, thanks for listening. Do not expect a few minutes of behavioral change to greatly affect the attitudes and perceptions who have been watching the previous behavior for many years. Take it one day at a time, and if you work according to the advice I've given you, people will come around. You have to do it right, not fast. You must stick with it, and you can't expect everyone to accept that you've changed your approach all at once. It takes time, and care. Good luck! Jacona (talk) 14:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

• I tried to take Jacona's comments into account in my editing on the deletion discussion on Moulton-Udell High School.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:15, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Arbcom case request

You are involved in a recently-filed request for clarification or amendment from the Arbitration Committee. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Johnpacklambert and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the Wikipedia:Arbitration guide may be of use.

Thanks, Fram (talk) 09:05, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

ANI

The ANI linked to above now has a proposal to ban me from participanting in AfD for at least a year. This despite the fact my reaction to it so far has been to no longer so vocally oppose redirects, and also despite my decision to avoid going to Proposed Deletion so soon and balancing out articles. It seems that when a milder solution (a two way interaction ban with Lugnuts) was not making headway, people went for the total and complete ban of all participation in the AfD process. I am not sure how this is at all a defendable reaction.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:51, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

John, FWIW, this is a rare case of me agreeing with you 100%. For the chance of a possible resolution that would be the least-worst (but not ideal) outcome for both of us, would you be willing to back the two-way IBAN? If so, I'm happy to add a joint statement at the bottom of the ANI thread. It might not do any good, but I don't see the harm in adding it. If, of course, you would want that. I don't have an issue if you don't want to support the IBAN either. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

No, the ban is unreasonable and is not tailored to addressing the actual problem at hand.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:37, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough - thanks for replying. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:47, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Willem Huender

Willem Huender was the colonial governor of Surinam. That postion alone means we will keep the article if we can verrify he existed, which the one source does. I strongly suspect any 20th-century governor of Surinam (and probably even earlier) there are more sources on. Some may be in Dutch, so harder for English speakers to find, but I suspect there are more sources in English as well. I hope someone finds them.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

1900 births

I am actually surprised there are not more people in Category:1900 births that we only know they were born about 1900. Although since I do not look deep at sources in all cases, some of the no date entried might really be that. However most people seem to actually have been born that year.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:37, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

• Now that I have completed reviewing this category is has 5,998 entries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:34, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Common name

I just came across an article that the name of the article included William (Bill) etc. I am pretty sure common name means we should either use Bill if that is what he was normally called, or William if that is what most sources call him. The common example is the article is Bill Clinton, not William Jefferson Clinton. In this particular case I did not delve into the sourcing, and there may be others, but we really for the common name need to figure which one is the one he was most often called, or is most often called in reliable sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:42, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Virginia Lathrop

Virginia Lathrop is an article sourced only to a finding aide connected to her papers. This does not seem to really fit the rublic of indepdent, reliable 3rd party secondary source. It also is one, and GNG asks for multiple. There may be sources on her beyond this. This problem of little sourcing seems to have existed for at least 12 years.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:09, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Last surviving veteran cruft

Eino Lehtinen is one of several articles we have on people who got some human interest coverage at about age 105 or so. I am not really seeing that any of these articles are justified.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:26, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Frans Kuijper

Frans Kuijper is an article sourced to two sports tables. It lacks any source that has any prose about Mr. Kuijper. I also was unable to find any additional sources about this individual after doing searches in google, google books and google news archive.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:52, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Pierre Coquelin de Lisle

Pierre Coquelin de Lisle seems to me an example of why the presumption that all Olympic medalists are notable does not stand up to reasonable tests. There are no sources on this article that have any prose about him. Yes there are some Olympic medalists who became very notable largely because of it, but that does not prove that all medalists in all sports are notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:45, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

For a longtime Wiki editor, you sure are clueless about finding sources. It's kinda obvious that there's a picture in this article. The picture's page gives a source, a French sports paper.why wouldn't that count as a source? Your buddy, Curly. 166.149.176.61 (talk) 21:08, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

A captioned photograph of someone from a newspaper is not the type of source that passes GNG. Not everyone who has been pictured with a photo in a newspaper with the caption saying who they are is notable for just being in a photo with a cpation.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:14, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

There seems to be some SIGCOV of him in French papers (via RetroNews), e.g. [5]. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 21:24, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

• • I added your note to the talk page on Lisle.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:26, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

David Farrow Maxwell

David Farrow Maxwell may well have been notable, but we really need more substance and probably a few more sources to show this. The fact we lack articles on either his predecessor or successor at the American Bar Association either shows its heads are not notable, that people need to do a lot more research in this field, or quite possibly both.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:33, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

• I was able to find coverage here (Philly Inquirer obit), here (detailed Counrier-Journal article), here (NYT obit), and here (detailed NYT article) on Maxwell. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:55, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Gaganvihari Lallubhai Mehta

Gaganvihari Lallubhai Mehta is an article sourced on to a book written by his daughter. Generally such a source would not be considered to meet GNG. It might if its editing was done by reliable editors. There may also be other sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:43, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

José Luis Romo Martín

José Luis Romo Martín may hold the record for most misplaced birth year category. I found this artilce in Category:1900 births, he was actually born in 1954.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:01, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Isaac Schour

Isaac Schour may well be notable, but we need something as a source beyond a work covering him created by his employer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:37, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

• I was able to find an obit in the Chicago Tribune. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:44, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Czechoslovak dramatists and playwrights

A tag has been placed on Category:Czechoslovak dramatists and playwrights indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:53, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Irving Weber

Irving Weber may be notable. However at present we lack any secondary sourcing on him.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:02, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

• After his death the Iowa City Press-Citizen ran a full page-length article on him. There's also coverage here, here, and here (plus there's lots of other articles on Newspapers.com, but I don't have time to go through them). An article in 2000 states he was named Iowa City's "Person of the Century" [6]. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:18, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Julian Stanley Wise

I do not see how the sourcing we have justifies an article on Julian Stanley Wise.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:13, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

• My search was able to find [7] [8] [9] and [10] as well as [11] which lists three offline biographical sketches of Wise. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:37, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

1899 births

Category:1899 births has 5,773 entries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:35, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

• After reviewing this category it now has 5,635 entries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:45, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

1899 misplaced

It seems a lot of the articles which I am finding in Category:1899 births really belong in Category:1889 births.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:02, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Louise Kugler

Louise Kugler I found in Category:1899 births. She was actually born in 1811. This is a record of misplacement.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:41, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of people on postage stamps

Sorry I missed it, I was about to XfD this. If you DELREV it or nominate it again, do ping me. This is such a failure. At least rename it (I'll do so...). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:22, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

• • I am probably not going to renominate it, but I will support it if you renominate it. Probably at this point it is best to wait and let some of the other discussions run their courses.John Pack Lambert (talk) 11:59, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

1898 births

As I am about to review Category:1898 births it has 5,943 entries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:46, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

• Now that I have reviewed in the category has 5,826 entries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Sadie T.M. Alexander

Hello, John Pack Lambert. I note that you changed the description I had edited into the first sentence of the article on Sadie Tanner Mosell Alexander from "pioneering Black professional" to "pioneering African-American professional," but you did not provide any rationale or justification for making this change. The term "African-American" appears in the next sentence, so your edit makes the writing more clumsy. Somewhat to my surprise, I find nothing in WP:MOS suggesting a standard way to refer to the racial identity of an American of African descent, although it is obviously a question that would come up often, so I infer that any non-offensive term should be acceptable. Rather than appear to be edit-warring by changing it back, I thought I would give you a chance to explain first. I await your response. PDGPA (talk) 00:33, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

• No, this is not a good change. Consistentcy suggests we should use the same term as much as possible. Wikipedia categorizes by ethnicity, not race. We should use "African-American", especailly when referring in ways that can be seen as meaning ethnicity. In the long run it is also way better to use terms that do not use color to refer to people and their ethnicities. I think this is a major improvement.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:06, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• Treating different terms as if they mean the same thing, and using them interchangeably to make an article more interesting is not a good idea. One should not change from using "African-American' to using a different term, unless one intends to indcate a different group or different scope with the other term.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:11, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
  • As best I can tell, you do not disagree with me that there is no uniform policy on this (rather common) issue in the Manual of Style. As I said, I looked and could not find one, and you do not cite any. You say, "Wikipedia categorizes by ethnicity, not race," but offer no supporting authority for that claim. You say this or that is "not a good idea" or "not a good change." That sounds like your personal opinion, which is fine, but not entitled to more weight than mine. My understanding of contemporary American usage is that in this context "Black" and "African-American" do, in fact, mean the same thing and would not be understood by most thougtful readers as suggesting, on the one hand, a literal color (Black people come in all skin tones, after all) or a literal geographic ancestry (we do not refer to caucasian immigrants from Rhodesia or South Africa, nor Arab immigrants from Morocco or Egypt, as "African-American," in other words). In the context at issue -- where the identification of the subject by race is exactly the point (first Black American to earn a Ph.D. in economics; first Black woman to practice law in Pennsylvania, etc.) -- the noble idea that "in the long run it is better to use terms that do not use color to refer to people and their ethnicities" seems to me to miss the mark by a wide margin. So I will take this to the Sadie T.M. Alexander talk page and seek consensus there. Thanks for responding. Your change lacked an edit summary, so I really did not know your rationale. PDGPA (talk) 15:08, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
    • No, Afircan-American means someone who is by nationality connected to the US. "black" can refer to people in any country and is not limited to people connected to the US. In this context, there could have been a black Canadian, national of some country in Africa, Black British, Afro-Brazilian or any number of other possible people who were not Americans hold a faculty position or graduate. Black and African-American do not mean the same thing, and people need to stop talking as if they do. I have seen to many cases where someone was refered to as the "first black X", when they were really the "first Afircan-American X" and there had been other Black, non-American people do X. The terms do not mean the same thing.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:11, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia should use emigration categories and place names that reflect the reality at the time of an event

The purpose of Wikipedia is not to right great wrongs. It should use place names, and emigration categories that reflect the reality at the time of events. We should also place people in occupation and related categories that intersect with nationality based on the actual country they were nationals of. We seem to under use Soviet, Yugoslav and Czechoslovak categories in this regard. There are probably others. The determination of what polity someone was a national of may not be easy. However we need to avoid presentism in this regard.

The most glaring case of this is Gujarat and Maharashtra are Indian states that were created in 1960. We have too many articles that invoke these state names foe events that happened in Bombay State or Bombay Presidency. There are other issues.

The issue here is complex. I would say we should use current Romanization for Chinese places all the way back, since the change in Romanization does not reflect any change in how the Chinese themselves referred to the place. Livorno should be called such even at times when English speakers called it Leghorn, except in actual quotes.

There are some case by case matters that are going to be tricky. When Constantinople becomes Istabul seems to be an issue with no easy answer. I had a history professor that mocked 19th-century publications for calling it Constantinople when the Turks cane to power in 1453, but it seems that it is not clear that the Turks renamed it in that year. The 1922/1923 name change may be too late though.

Siam becomes Thailand in a clear year. The Iran/Persia usage seems a bit more complex though. Burma as Myanmar seems another that was not a quick change. Rhodesia to Zimbabwe has a clear year.

For categorization there is another question. Some name changes do not reflect a polity change. I do not see a good reason to have Category:Siamese writers to group those from before the name change. In the case of Writers from the Ottoman Empire as opposed to Writers from Turkey we have a clear change of size, government, and massive population exchanges that coincide with the change in name. Writers might be a poor choice, because it us a profession where language used is defining. We limit categorization by that because so many Turkish writers write in Turkish, French writers write in French and German writers write in German among many other categories that if we categorized every writer by language some of these categories would be near mirrors of the nationality categories.

An even trickier issue is ethnic categories that use the same name as nationality categories. So what of a Greek medical doctor who lived all his life in the Ottoman Empire or an Armenian engineer who never left Lebanon? Some of the solutions here may require not always using the common name to avoid total confusion. Although maybe we at some point accept categories with illogical scope.

Some of the answers depend on how bad people see the various results of category structure. Which is the bigger problem. Categories so large that you can never sort through them? Categories so small that they do not group anything? Or articles in too many categories? I know we have never even faced up to the questions, in part because there are no easy answers.

There are in part no easy answers because scope is so hard to figure out. Some of these group names are not fixed but contested.

I am trying to speak in broad generalities, but we will always end up with some fuzzy edges.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:17, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Arbitration case opened

You were recently listed as a party to a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Evidence. Please add your evidence by July 9, 2022, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, firefly ( t · c ) 11:14, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Douglass Sullivan-Gonzalez

The article Douglass Sullivan-Gonzalez has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Simply non-notable , fails WP:GNG. Only source cited is a primary source.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ~ HAL333 17:50, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Over categorization

Why are any articles on people born in 1898 in any 19th-century categories? Generally categories for century plus something are meant to be for those who were doing significant things in that regard, so it makes no sense to place anyone in such a category, except maybe a few very young child actors.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:39, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Wrong birth listings

The worst birth listings I have seen are those that use neither the name of the place now nor the place when an event occured. Such as the article that said someone was born in Prague, Czechoslovakia in 1998. Czechoslovakia only existed from roughly 1918 until 1992. So the listing is not right at the time of the event nor at the present.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

1897 births

The category 1897 births currently has 5,534 entries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:53, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

• Category:1897 births now has 5,390 articles after review.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:11, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Stephen S. Attwood

Stephen S. Attwood may be notable but we would need better sourcing to show that he is notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Correcting birth dates

Mr Lambert, when you are going through pages in a birth year category such as Category:1897 births and you encounter a discrepancy between the birth year in the page body and the birth year in the category, how do you determine which one is correct?

As an example, you changed the category for Babe Dye from 1897 births to 1898 births. Looking through the history, the birth date started as 1898 but was changed to 1897 by Connormah in 2017. The birth date was changed back to 1898 by a different user in 2020, but that user didn't change the category. I did a Google search and both dates come up - how did you determine which was the correct birth date? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 04:38, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

I assume text is more correct, especially when there are multiple statements in the text. In this case I would go with just saying 1890s birth. I will probably edit it to show this.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:30, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

This multiple dates issue and no clear one is why I put some articles in year of birth uncertain. We have no other way when there are multiple possible centuries of birth.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:33, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Further on uncertain birth years. If we can place a range in a decade, I use the decade. If only a century, I use the century. We do not gave 1st, 2nd and 3rd millenia birth categories. So if the person is said to have been born in 1898 or 1901, I go with year of birth uncertain. I just realized that since 1900 was in the 19th century (there is no year 0) I could put someone born in 1899 or 1900 in 19th-century births. I will keep that in mind going forward.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:59, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

If I understand what you are saying, you compare the date in the body of the page and the date in the category and change the category to match the body - is this correct? You don't go through the history of the page to see why the dates are different or when they diverged? You don't try to determine if the dates are correct by looking at the sources? Is that a fair assessment of your process? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 15:24, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

@Johnpacklambert: Can you please comment on my understanding of your process? Have I missed anything? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 15:20, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

@Johnpacklambert: I have reported our discussion here since you are not responding to my questions. Polycarpa aurata (talk) 15:44, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Philip C. Duschnes

Mr Lambert, you changed Philip C. Duschnes' birth year category from 1897 to 1890s births. What research did you do for this change? According to the book "Dictionary of American antiquarian bookdealers" Duschnes was born in 1897 (although no day or month is provided). It is possible to find the full birthdate of 26 March 1897 in geneological records. I offer that source only for the purposes of this discussion, not as a source for the page. Polycarpa aurata (talk) 15:24, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

• The view that we can only say that Duschnes was born around 1897 has been what the page itself expressed since its cretion. I would not trust that source you offer at all to source such. We do not have to be more precise than we can be, and we lack any reliable source that gives more than a general sense of when Duschnes was born.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:54, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

What research did you do before you made your edit to the category? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 23:21, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Opal Kunz

Mr Lambert, you removed two birth year categories from Opal Kunz and replaced them with 1890s births. What research did you do to find a correct birth date? This one is slightly more complicated in that there is a discrepancy in dates on documents. The page originally said Although her Social Security record indicates she was born in 1894, her burial record indicates she was born in 1896 but was clumsily reworded to say simply Opal Logan Giberson was born in 1894 or 1896.... Kunz was a well-known figure - I don't think there is any dispute that Kunz was born in 1894 (as can be seen on her headstone). What research did you do to find a correct date? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 15:24, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

• • If social security records say this person was born in 1896, than there is clearly a disupte about the year of birth. A grave stone is not generally considered a defintive source on when someone was born. Social security records have many of the same flaws though. What you presented shows that at least until someone marshalls better sources, the best we can say is this person was born in the 1890s.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:59, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

What research did you do before you made your edit to the category? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 23:21, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Julia Adler

Mr Lambert, you changed Julia Adler's birth year category from 1897 to 1898. What research did you do to confirm that birth year? There is only one source on the page, this obituary in the New York Times. That article states Adler's birth date as "July 4, 1897". Polycarpa aurata (talk) 15:24, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

• Various editors have seemed to debate whether Adler was born in 1897, 1898 or 1899. I think I will just move it to 1890s births and leave it to other editors to try and find more definitive sourcing.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:04, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

What research did you do before you made your edit to the category? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 23:22, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Could you show evidence of any debate about the birth date? I see nothing on the talk page. Polycarpa aurata (talk) 23:25, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

The changes were done as edits to the page itself as can be seen from its history. A change from one year to another in the text constitutes an assertion that the newly offered year is correct. Now it would probably be better if people explained their edits, cited sources and did related such actions when they made these changes. However they did make these changes to the article over time.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Cyril Chambers

Mr Lambert, you changed Cyril Chambers birth year category from 1897 births to 1890s births. You left the page with a birth date of both 1897 *and* 1898. What research did you do to find the correct birth year? It seems very likely that the 1898 year was simply a typo when Frickeg expanded the date in the text. Polycarpa aurata (talk) 16:44, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Louise Little

Mr Lambert, you changed the birth year category for Louise Lttle from 1897 births to 1894irths. What research did you do to establish that the 1894 date was correct? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 23:20, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

• The article had 3 different places that all stated she was born in 1894. This source [12] used in the article gives her birth date as 1894. The only place that said 1897 was in the category itself.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:29, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
• digging further I was able to find a March 2022 New York Times article that states Little was born in either 1894 or 1897. I have included this I formation in the article on Little and changed the Category to 1890s biths.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:54, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

  @Johnpacklambert Did you "dig" at all before making your edit? I mean did you look at anything that wasn't on the page? Did you look at the page's history? Did you do a Google search? What research did you do before you changed the birth date category? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 21:56, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Elwood Towner

Mr Lambert, you changed Elwood Towner's birth year category from 1897 to 1890s births. You also replaced the June 3, 1897 birth date that was on the page and replaced it with "c. 1897". What research did you do for this change? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 02:37, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Federico Martinengo

Mr Lambert, you changed Federico Martinengo's birth year category from 1897 births to 1899 births. What research did you do for this change? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 02:53, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Eleanor Winthrop Young

Mr Lambert, you changed Eleanor Winthrop Young's birth year category from 1897 births to 1895 births. What research did you do for this change? Polycarpa aurata (talk) 15:15, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Actor Tedrick B Martin

Hey I’m Actor Tedrick B Martin Born in Monticello, Mississippi on January 9th 1975 I am known for the films DARK SIDE OF FOOTBALL AND THE WALK 2022. I currently live in Calabasas, California and I often come home to Biloxi, Mississippi for vacation.

Email: martin.ent1@icloud.com

Best Wishes Tedrick B Martin Tmart1975 (talk) 06:38, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Lloyd Kelsey

Lloyd Kelsey did tug of war at the Olympics. I see nothing that actually would make him notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:30, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Redirected. Cbl62 (talk) 13:05, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

John Decatur Messick

John Decatur Messick was a university president. We clearly need more sourcing on hiim. We also need to say more of substance in the article. It really should be more than just one paragraph.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:54, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

• I was able to find some coverage, such as this and this. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:46, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Lillian Miller

Lillian Miller was evidently a "regular audience member". I do not really see how that is a sign of notability. The sourcing does not really rise to anything that would pass GNG either.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:59, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

• I'd say she (surprisingly!) meets GNG, see here, here, here and here (the latter of which was run by papers all over the US, see the Tampa Tribune, Chicago Tribune, Boston Globe, Orlando Sentinel, and Capital Times). BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:01, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Good discussion. To preserve it, I've copied it to Talk:Lillian Miller. Cbl62 (talk) 00:29, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Margaret Rowlett

Margaret Rowlett may be notable as an artist and or as a painter. However we need better sourcing than just the finding aid to her collected papers at a university to show this.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

• The article is horribly written. We need an opening summary that shows what actually makes her notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Joseph Spencer Stewart

We clearly need more text on Joseph Spencer Stewart. More sources would not hurt either. We need more than 1 sentence on this university president.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

1896 births category

Category:1896 births currently has 5,579 articles in it. I am about to review it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:23, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

• After review the category now has 5,472 entries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:20, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Question

Have you ever met any Latter-day Saints born in Africa? If so, which countries were they born in? AmericanEditor350 (talk) 06:14, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

• Ghana, Liberia, Uganda, Nigeria, Tanzania, South Africa, Zimbabwe and Madagascar I know for sure. If I thought longer I might be able to give more answers.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:00, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

  Ok. AmericanEditor350 (talk) 15:25, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Roy Davidson (special effects artist)

Roy Davidson (special effects artist) is an article sourced only to IMDb. I also have to admit that I am less than convinced that someone nominated for an award who did not win it becomes notable. We would need more sources and more substance to the article to justify keeping it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:39, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

John Dilleshaw

We really need an additional source beyond Allmusic to fully show John Dilleshaw is notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:18, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Francisco Escárcega

Our article on Francisco Escárcega lacks any sources. The Dutch article looks to be as unsourced. There is no Spanish article. The Malagasy article lists a source but I see no way to determine it is a reliable source. Clearly we need better sourcing to justify the article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:26, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I am not sure how to create new categories when editing on my phone

I am editing on my phone right now. I am not sure how to create new categories when doing so. In the morning when I have access to a computer I will create the categories in question.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:15, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Olha_Franko

I undid your category add. She is Ukrainian, not Polish. Unless I'm missing something? CT55555 (talk) 13:31, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

• In 1929 Kolomyia, which seems to be where she was living and working at the time, was part of Poland. So she was a national of Poland, and so can be put in Polish categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:34, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

  Living somewhere is not synonymous with being a citizen of that country. I think we should go by the sources, and what you are proposing seems like WP:OR. I read the sources when I wrote the article and they all said she was Ukrainian. You are not following the normal cycle WP:BRD so I'l switch this conversation to the talk page of the article, but will ask you to revert that edit unless you have a source that identifies her as Polish. CT55555 (talk) 15:38, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Virgil Melvin Hancher

Virgil Melvin Hancher is an unsourced article on a university president. We need sources. We could with sources probably say more substantial things about Hancher than the article currently does.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:59, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Charles W. Howard

Our article on Charles W. Howard in some ways doubles as an article on his Santa Claus School. That part of the article is at least 13 years old. There are also issues with the tone. It would help if we could find sources that discussed his impact in a more academic way.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:11, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

V. R. Ramanatha Iyer

V. R. Ramanatha Iyer is said to have been mayor of Madras. This is very likely to be the level of mayorship that would make someone notable. However we need at least one more source. We also need more than the one sentence the article has. The article no only does not tell us anything else about Iyer than that Iyer was mayor of Madras, it does not even tell us when Iyer was mayor of Madras. I assume based on the source that it was 1956, but was it other years too? Was it earlier and the source mentions that Iyer was mayor of Madras as some point in the past? We need more substance to this article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:51, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:1999 establishments in Northern Cyprus

A tag has been placed on Category:1999 establishments in Northern Cyprus indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:06, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 2

An automated process has detected that you recently added links to disambiguation pages.

Komaram Bheem

added a link pointing to Narsapur

Ramji Gond

added a link pointing to Chennur

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 19:46, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Washington University (medical school)

The article Washington University (medical school) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Article content does not determine notability. History is unclear.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

1895 births

Currently there are 5,511 articles in the category Category:1895 births. I am reviewing this category and the 1896 births category at the same time.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

• Now that I have finished reviewing the category it has 5,397 entries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:13, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Lamar Perkins

Lamar Perkins was a member of the New York State legislator who represented Harlem. When? Evidently around 1930 but our article does not say which years exactly. This article is in severe need of improment.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:11, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Louis H. Renfrow

I am unconvinced that Louis H. Renfrow held any position in government that actually makes him notable. He seems to have served below the level of notability, and there is nothing he did that would seem to make him notable. At a minimum we need better sourcing to show that he was notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

• I was able to find some coverage, for example this and this. BeanieFan11 (talk) 13:58, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Fitch Robertson

Fitch Robertson was mayor of Berkeley, California. I am not convinced the sourcing is enough to justify an article. Mayors are not default notable, and I am less than convinced at the time he was mayor Berkeley was a significant enough community that the mayor would be likely to be notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:01, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:British expatriates in Gold Coast (British colony)

A tag has been placed on Category:British expatriates in Gold Coast (British colony) indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:18, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Egyptian emigrants to Albania

A tag has been placed on Category:Egyptian emigrants to Albania indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:19, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 10

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Komaram Bheem, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Narsapur.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:18, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:British emigrants to the South Afircan Republic

A tag has been placed on Category:British emigrants to the South Afircan Republic indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:08, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:People of the South African Repbulic

A tag has been placed on Category:People of the South African Repbulic indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:11, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

1894 births

Category:1894 births which I am about to start reviwing has 5,587 entries at present.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:13, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Herbert Hill Baxter

Herbert Hill Baxter may have been notable. We need more and better sourcing to show this though.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:35, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Letitia H. Erb

Hello, Johnpacklambert,

Just a reminder that you should post a notification on the talk page of an article creator any time you tag a page for any type of deletion (CSD, PROD, AFD/CFD/RFD/etc.). If you use Twinkle to tag articles, which I highly recommend, the program will post these notices for you so you don't have to remember all of the necessary templates. Just set up your Twinkle Preferences to "Notify page creator" and Twinkle will do the heavy lifting for you. It has a lot of other nice features and includes the ability to maintain deletion logs, report editors to noticeboards and to tag articles if you notice problems with them. It is very userfriendly and just adds a tab to the menu at the top of the page. But if you could remember to post notifications, I would really appreciate that as you do tag a lot of pages for deletion these days. Thanks! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:00, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Teddy Carroll

I just got done trying to increase the encyclopedic tone of the article on Teddy Carroll. It still has a long way to go. It is at present mainly based on self-published sourced and blogspot entries. It reads more like a memorial essay than an encyclopedic article, and it coat racks a lot on broad track motorcycle racing. I am not sure he meets inclusion criteria, but I am hoping to get someone to look at the article who can better evaluate what sources we have.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:11, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Edward Albert Chapin

Edward Albert Chapin was an entomologist who we need more sources and substance on.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:17, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Montagu Cleeve

Montagu Cleeve is an article built on one obituary and one interview with the subject. I am not convinced that is really enough for an article. I am hoping that posting about it here will get some searching done for more sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:54, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Eddie Collins (miner)

Eddie Collins (miner) is currently not based on sources that pass the reliable test. Well, the first one seems to be a free submission genealogical site. I added something that might work, but I only could get snippet views so I can not even well tell what it says on him. He seems to have also been known as J. T. E. Collins, which might help in searching.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:14, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Maude Collins

Maude Collins was the sherrif of a not very populous county in Ohio. A lot of the coverage we have on her focuses on one murder case she solved. I am less than convinced we have enough to justify an article. We have what amounts to news coverage from elsewhere in Ohio, and a county organization providing coverage of her. I am putting it out here to see if others might be able to find more and better sourcing.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:17, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:British emigrants to Cape Colony

A tag has been placed on Category:British emigrants to Cape Colony indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:01, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of LeGrand R. Curtis Jr. for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article LeGrand R. Curtis Jr., to which you have significantly contributed, is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or if it should be deleted.

The discussion will take place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/LeGrand R. Curtis Jr. (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit the configuration page. Delivered by SDZeroBot (talk) 01:02, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Hugo Nielsen

Thank you for your note. I hope you are right. The amendment of WP:SPORTBASIC earlier this year is explicit: "Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources." If nobody comes forward with even one example of SIGCOV, there is no support for those who vote keep. Cbl62 (talk) 21:01, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

You would hope so, but there have been some AfD's that have been kept despite failing that, including some which argued "Keep, meets WP:NCRIC."

Incidentally, why I tried to make those changes to NSPORT, to make it clear that NCRIC on its own isn't enough. BilledMammal (talk) 21:37, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

• I have to admit that I am a bit frustrated at how many articles in Wikipedia do not even come vaguely close to meeting GNG. Even more frustrating is the number of editors who on some discussions vaguely assert sources, instead of finding them. Then there are those who say "this book mentions so and so" but do not bother to provide the information needed (such as page number) to find the mention in the book. Equally frustrating are those who say "I get 256 hits in a newspaper database" and then fail to add even 1 of those to the article. Any time I see that statement "AfD is not for cleanup" it seems the actual meaning is "I am OK with Wikipedia being total junk, and so if I can claim there is a search that produces sources, I will just state that, and will not bother trying to improve this truly sub-standard article." Apache May Slaughter is the article that seems to exemplify this the most. In the AfD there are claims that there are sources, including evidently 275 on newspapers.com. However not one editor has bothered to even try to add even 1 source to the article. Not even 1. There are some questions about propriety. For example there seems to be some speculation about who Ms. Slaughter's parents were, but I am not sure any of it is well sourced enough to justify putting in Wikipedia. We need to be diligent to keep articles on real people grounded in facts not rumors. I really think we need to expand the BLP unsourced prod system to being at least an all unsourced bio article unsourced prod system, or maybe even an an unsourced article prod system.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:49, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Idea

Wikipedia should ban all editing unless someone is using a registered account. There is far too much vandalism and harassment and blocking of improvements of edits down basically secretly by unregistered account.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:33, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Stefan Godlewski

I've deprodded it with additional sourcing. Feel free to ping me whenever you PROD a Polish topic. Btw, "The Polish article does not look to have adequate sourcing either." - incorrect. It cited online PWN Encyklopedia, a pretty good confirmation of notability. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:05, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Peter G. Keller

Peter G. Keller may be notable for being a leader of a stamp dealers association. We need more sourcing to show this is the case though.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:08, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Arthur Ward Lindsey

Arthur Ward Lindsey was an entomologist. We have no sources on the article on him.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:37, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Stanley Link

Stanley Link was a cartoonist. The sources we have on him at present do not look to be enough to pass GNG.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:39, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Luis Garza for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Luis Garza, to which you have significantly contributed, is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or if it should be deleted.

The discussion will take place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luis Garza (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit the configuration page. Delivered by SDZeroBot (talk) 01:04, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Proposed decision posted

Hi Johnpacklambert, in the open Conduct in deletion-related editing arbitration case, a remedy or finding of fact has been proposed which relates to you. Please review this decision and draw the arbitrators' attention to any relevant material or statements. Comments may be brought to the attention of the committee on the proposed decision talk page. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:19, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Category:1893 births

Category:1893 births which I am about to review currently has 5,425 entries in it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:14, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Otto Abernetty

Otto Abernetty seems to lack adequate sources to justify an article. I also think way too much of the text is in non-English language.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:37, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Panic

I am feeling panic.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:55, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Sources existing and veifiability

I think these two policies fly in the face of each other. I think Nexist needs to be ended or at least changed. An editor claimed I violated it because I stated that to keep an article on someone based on a position they held we would need multiple in-depth mentions of the person in reliable, secondary sources that were I dependent of the subject. I did not say 'need in the article". No one has presented any such sources. So this amounts to an attack on me for making an argument I did not make. The whole process is very frustrating. Evidently in the view of some nexist means that you cannot invoke GNG ever.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:53, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

We need to end Nexist

Nexist is too often used to attack people for not doing searches in multiple languages. This is undercutting verifiability. Verifiability means that articles cannot state things that are not supported by reliable, secondary sources. We should not be writing articles from primary sources or from unreliable sources. This means articles should not be based on IMBd. Nexist is used to hand wave a lack of sources, and to mount attacks on people who do not do multi-lingual searching before nominating articles. This males people fear trying improvement and allows unsorced articles to sit for over a decade. The number of articles that were tagged as lacking any sources on or before Dec. 2009, over 12 years ago is distressing high. That ignores the fact many of those articles were actually u sourced longer than that. It seems 2009 was a year when many such takes were placed.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:58, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

The flaws of Wikipedia

Wikipedia suffers from having been started with too little consideration of notability policies. This has lead to many oddities that make it not look much like a global encyclopedia.

Some overpowered topics are or have berm Louisiana politicians, Olympic competitors, wells in Iran, private air steips on ranches in Oregon, coastal and submerged rocks in Massachusetts, UD state beauty pageant winners, politicians in New Jersey, everyone in Norwalk, Connecticut; Dedham, Massachusetts; and soccer players.

I could name a few others that may be being supported by unwise policies. We have way more articles on members of the Wisconsin state legislature than any other state. I can see the argument that every state legislature member is notable. The policy has lead to thousands of 2 line 1 source articles that lack substance.

A lot of the odd clusters that I mention above have been driven by one editor. A few have seen some progress because of concerted efforts.

There are some other oddities where it is a true mess and little progess is being made. Wikipedia has huge numbers of unsubstantial articles on schools. 5 years ago a decision was made that not every top level secondary school that currently exists worldwide was notable. It was not clear than if GNG or Organizational notability was the new policy. Organizational notability guidelines now say they apply to schools. However the policy that existed for essentially 15 years lead to the creation of a huge number of low quality articles on Secondary schools, and very, very few quality articles on such schools. The alleged decision to not follow the end of school notability guidelines with massive deletion nominations did not lead to a systematic improvement in school articles. It lead to poor quality school articles remaining for another 3 years with very little scrutiny, and then about 2 years ago a few attempts to review articles on secondary schools in India and the Philippines. In the last six months or so we have seen some progress on improving articles on US secondary schools, but it has been very little. I think we have also rejected the idea that every degree granting tertiary institution is notable, but that is less clear. What has happened is there has been some push to stop having articles on every sub-unit of a university with college in its name.

One place we have a huge work to do is articles on university presidents. These tend to be unsubstantiated and lacking in substance. At the same time the academic guidelines suggest that not every accredited institution of higher learning grants notability to every head, but we have in general failed yo have the needed co versions beyond this.

Some of this is I bieve because AfD is broken. I think AfD is broken because the D unwisely stands for deletion and not discussion. Discussions of mergers, redirects and I would argue even renames I think would be better served by being done in the same format. We do such for categories and it seems to work. I think it would be good to do so for articles. As far as I can tell there is no easy way to propose a redirect if an article. The merger and renaming proposals lack a system that gets quick results or easy participation like the deletion discussion method. The deletion discussion method has flaws to though. We need to find ways to deescalate tension.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:22, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Redlinks

Wikipedia has far too many cases of massive lists created with huge numbers of redlinks. Such lists are rarely reviewed again, and without review can lead to the starting of false lists. I have found multiple film articles that end up with links from the cast section that go to people who are clearly not the cast members of that film. John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:25, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Should all of those redlinks be created? Patachonica (talk) 03:34, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

I have doubts that it is reasonable to assume that every cast member of a film is notable. There is a huge issue we have with film, actor, actress, director and some other film related professional articles sourced only to IMBd. Part of the issue may be that the guideline that says that "multiple" "significant" roles in "notable" productions has too much breath. What are significant roles? I would argue this should be accompanied by sourcing that backs at least 2 res being significant, but the number of articles that lack any such sourcing is high. I would also argue that Wikipedia articles should not be "Ann Smith (1899-1968) was an American actress who acted in films in the 1930s" followed by a list of all the films she appeared in. A related issue is some film cast listings are half or more uncredited performers, and some casting listings for actors are half or more roles they were uncredited in. Some even include roles that were cut from final production. Wikipedia is not supposed to be an indiscriminate listing of everything, but some of these issues approach that. Sometimes a filmography says it is "selected" and then proceeds to include huge numbers of uncredited roles. On occasion this may be justified, but there are times when it is not.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:56, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Jimmy Cariggio

Jimmy Cariggio is a new record in not news violation. We have a news article from 1914 on his death, and some name drop in a book on New York gangs. This is not enough on its own to justify am article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:27, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Possible violation of your topic ban

Mr Lambert, you made this edit to Paul Blanshard. As it states in that page, Blanshard was an ordained minister. The sentence you edited (the lead sentence) says he was "an outspoken critic of Catholicism". For both of these reasons, I believe you have violated your topic ban. Polycarpa aurata (talk) 04:47, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

The edit you have linked appears to be an inadvertent key stroke simply adding a stray letter "a". It added no substance. It seems like a stretch to assert that this apparent inadvertent keystroke is a violation worthy of any punishment .. but a good reminder to JohnPackLambert to be careful about the topic area. Cbl62 (talk) 05:23, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Cbl62.Naraht (talk) 14:14, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

@Cbl62 @Naraht Please look more closely. Mr Lambert changed "author" to "writer". The "a" is probably left over from the original word. "Bans apply to all editing good or bad". Polycarpa aurata (talk) 14:45, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia needs more clear guidelines

Wikipedia needs more clear guidelines. This is especially true when people are being told what they can and cannot do. Too often there is an expectation that people will follow assumed norms. These norms are hard enough to figue out in open societal interactions, but in an online community they need to be spelled out more clearly, and people need to be given more oppotunities to learn and follow them, and not be threatned with dire restrictions on a first interaction with the rules.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:08, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Precision v accuracy

Wikipedia needs to avoid being more precise than it is accurate. Thus, we should not put people in a specific birth year cat just because it looks good. If we have multiple equally reliable for that fact sources giving different birth years, we should put the person in a birth year category that does not rule out any of the given birth years. We have decades, centurites, Category:Year of birth uncertain, missing and unknow cats for a reason. We should not rush to place someone in some birth year category to look precise unless we have sourcing to know it is accurate. We clearly should never put someone in more than one birth year category, since people were only actually born in one year.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:10, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Harold McCracken

Harold McCracken is almost certainly notable, although I have doubts the 3 sources we have are quite enough. However the article is very weak. The lead mentions lots of things that are not mentioned in the article. The substance of the article opens with him doing explaration in 1916 when he was about 22, leaving off anything about where he was born and raised, where he may have received his edutation, or even where he lived at all before that. We need more basic biographical information in the article. We would benefit from more context period.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:31, 25 July 2022 (UTC)