:She did not hold Australian nationality until 1981, so for the first 18 years of her career she was British. ‑‑[[User:Neveselbert|Neveselbert]] ([[User talk:Neveselbert|talk]] <b>·</b> [[Special:Contribs/Neveselbert|contribs]] <b>·</b> [[Special:EmailUser/Neveselbert|email]]) 21:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
:She did not hold Australian nationality until 1981, so for the first 18 years of her career she was British. ‑‑[[User:Neveselbert|Neveselbert]] ([[User talk:Neveselbert|talk]] <b>·</b> [[Special:Contribs/Neveselbert|contribs]] <b>·</b> [[Special:EmailUser/Neveselbert|email]]) 21:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Incorrect. Prior to about 1984, British subjects who emigrated to Australia were granted full voting rights. Therefore, they did not need to take out Australian citizenship and most didn't bother. Most still considered themselves Australian. Is there any that ONJ considered didn't? [[User:Timb66|Timb66]] ([[User talk:Timb66|talk]]) 21:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
== Death ==
== Death ==
Revision as of 21:17, 12 August 2022
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"changed their contracts"
The following paragraph makes it sound as though records companies dictate contract terms. However, contracts are by definition negotiated. The company and the artist agree on a set of terms. The paragraph should be revised to reflect this fact.
Paragraph:
As a result of the lawsuit, record companies changed their contracts to be based on a set number of albums recorded by a musician and not a specific number of years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.84.83.38 (talk) 19:47, July 24, 2021 (UTC)
Request for comment (should "British" or place of birth be in the lead sentence?)
Another editor insists that ONJ is a "British-born Australian".[1] However, this overlooks the fact that she is a dual British Australian citizen, as evidenced by her British award of Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire (DBE) in the 2020 New Year Honours. I believe that she should be described as "British-Australian". Thoughts? WWGB (talk) 12:27, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
She was Australian. The fact that she was born in the UK and presumably retained dual citizenship is irrelevant. She identified as Australian and I'm guessing would never have described herself as Australian. References would be needed to establish otherwise. Timb66 (talk) 11:41, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is not "irrelevant" that she had dual citizenship. Articles reflect facts, not just what a person identified as. But I'm not sure that "British-Australian" is appropriate either as that is no more a nationality than the term "Irish-American" usually is. It might be a bit complicated but something along the lines of "was a British-born Australian singer" and then mentioning her dual citizenship in some way seems the most appropriate solution to me. Otherwise I don't see how this issue will ever be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Afterwriting (talk) 12:05, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Being Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire is significant, she was also British, it can't be excluded. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss20:00, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Rubbish. Are you Australian? I am, eith similar background to ONJ. I have never bothered to relinquish my UK citizenship but that doesn't mean anything. Timb66 (talk) 21:40, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And yes, she was born in the UK. This fact is mentioned in the appropriate place. It would give undue weighting to include this in the lead sentence. Why not also mention she was blond and right-handed? Timb66 (talk) 21:43, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not relevant. Don Bradman was made a knight. And both Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard were born in the UK, but are still Australian. You need to provide evidence that being named a dame makes one British. And then justification that this is so important that it belongs in the opening sentence Timb66 (talk) 22:30, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also note that eligibility for the honour you mentioned simply requires being a citizen of a Commonwealth country. There are dozens of recipients who are Australian by birth, such as Greg Chappell. So this honour does not imply Britishness Timb66 (talk) 22:40, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:ETHNICITY only mention birth location in lead if relevant to notability - it isn't in this case. She did nothing notable in the UK - she left when 6 - started her career in Australia. Identifies as Australian. Known as Australian. Geraldo Perez (talk) 01:15, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
agreed, WP:ETHNICITY is very clear. Why are people still editing the lead to insert her place of birth, rather than discussing here? Timb66 (talk) 08:14, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Being an official representative of the UK in Eurovision is a significant for being British. Did she ever represent Australia in an international competition? If not, that would be cause for removing Australian. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss19:56, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If she was born in the UK? then use "British-Australian". PS - We're using "US" as her DOD, but not "UK" as her DOB? Why the inconsistency? GoodDay (talk) 12:22, 10 August 2022 (UTC) GoodDay (talk) 12:20, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think a single Eurovision entry for the UK at a time when Australia was excluded is notable enough to justify mentioning in the lead sentence. It gives undue weight. Timb66 (talk) 11:31, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, born in the UK, represented UK in Eurovision, British citizen, Dame commander by appointment of the Queen, she is more British than Aussie. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss19:37, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, now you're getting ridiculous Lilach. I hope that comment was a joke. If not, I'm afraid you've lost objectivity :-) Timb66 (talk) 21:48, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Representation is not relevant here. She was not a sportsperson, she was a pop star. The primary activity of a pop star is entertainment, making records, making films, etc. Timb66 (talk) 05:02, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Dual citizenship can be covered in the infobox - no need to add XYZ born in most cases as it doesn’t really add anything of value I feel, as birthplace is not mentioned in the first sentence of the lead. Now, I don’t know how ONJ felt about her own identity, but referring to her as Australian seems appropriate as she lived there from the age of six. Unless a source can be found where she self identified as British in any way then leave as is. Also, English would be inappropriate considering her heritage. Regards, SinoDevonian (talk) 12:18, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To editors, please do not insert place of birth, it violates WP:ETHNICITY, as discussed above. British heritage is not sufficiently notable to br included in the lead. Timb66 (talk) 20:56, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Her own statements should hold the greatest weight. When asked about her citizenship in 2017, being asked specifically whether she was British, Australian or American, she stated without qualification: I am still Australian. Cullen328 (talk) 21:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Please read WP:ETHNICITY and explain why her place of birth is notable enough to be included in the lead. And see previous comments above. Thanks, Tim Timb66 (talk) 21:09, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Incorrect. Prior to about 1984, British subjects who emigrated to Australia were granted full voting rights. Therefore, they did not need to take out Australian citizenship and most didn't bother. Most still considered themselves Australian. Is there any that ONJ considered didn't? Timb66 (talk) 21:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You added a source from some local news agency. We finally got one from a better outlet (Parade)... I'll replace it when something better comes along.
Please remember, Wikipedia is not a news outlet. We do not care about being the first to break news on a celebrity death. We care about accurate info. EvergreenFir(talk)19:46, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the 1970s (or '80s), there was a claim that she was gay/homosexual or perhaps bisexual. Was this topic ever addressed by her? Skimming the section on relationships, I saw none, and saw nothing in the article that mentions this at all. Thank you! Misty MH (talk) 20:49, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Misty MH: look at this interview: "Question: I came across a video of you acknowledging lesbian rumors that were circulating about you in the ’80s. I had no idea people ever thought you were a lesbian. Answer: Yeah, I remember that. It was very odd. I couldn’t figure out why, but it didn’t do me any harm, obviously. (Laughs) ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss20:55, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's far too trivial to include in the article. It's insignificant, had no effect & is the sort of unsubstantiated claim that's said of hundreds of celebs. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:01, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently her video "Physical" was huge for many in the gay communities. The interview (above) was published by "Pride Source Media Group, LLC. ... PSMG produces the award-winning biweekly LGBTQ+ print publication..."; and in it the interviewer says that her video "Physical" was "groundbreaking" for the gay community because it had a couple of gay people holding hands in it. And it says the gay community was a huge fan of hers. More below about the details of the video, but first...
Here's the more-complete interview discussion (partly quoted above by another editor) related to the rumors, asked of her in the interview:
"[Interviewer] I came across a video of you acknowledging lesbian rumors that were circulating about you in the ’80s. I had no idea people ever thought you were a lesbian.
[Newton-John] Yeah, I remember that. It was very odd. I couldn’t figure out why, but it didn’t do me any harm, obviously. (Laughs)
[Interviewer] Actually, I think it might’ve benefited you.
[Newton-John] I think it was probably a good rumor! It was a nice rumor, not a mean rumor.
[Interviewer] Do mean rumors about Olivia Newton-John actually exist?
[Newton-John] I’m sure there have been some! I try not to tune in to negativity. I tune that stuff out, so I don’t know."
And a bit more about the video (and there is more at the link):
"[Interviewer] Like many gay men of my generation, my introduction to you was the “Physical” video. I remember being surprised seeing two gay men walking out of the gym together, holding hands. Considering being gay was more taboo during that time, how do you reflect on that groundbreaking moment when it comes to gay inclusivity?
[Newton-John] You know what, I don’t think I even realized it at the time. ..."
I would say that "groundbreaking" would be pretty notable. :)
There is a nice 1980 one in colour that we could crop, she's on the far left and can be cut out. Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh meet Australian entertainers who performed in a Royal Charity Concert at the Sydney Opera House [in 1980]. Performers include (from left): pianist Roger Woodward, comedian Paul Hogan and singer Olivia Newton-John. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss04:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Chart positions
The constant inclusions of positions on multiple different charts in one particular North American country make for a very frustrating read. It would be better, IMO, with fewer US chart positions, and noting when singles do especially well in Aus, UK or the US (e.g. noting that Xanadu was a UK number one instead of a US Top 10 hit). EuroAgurbash (talk) 23:23, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Her back pains had initially been misdiagnosed as sciatica." She likely had a metastasis to her low back that caused her to experience sciatica. The diagnosis of sciatica was likely correct, but the cause of that sciatica (the met) was missed. Pgemmell2 (talk) 02:57, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
When Olivia Newton-John was 16 she signed with Crest Records, an Australian-victorian based record company. Around this time her father cheated on her mother and the consequences of this relationship left Olivia "uncontrollable" according to her mother in a conversation to the head of Crest Records, Marcus Herman. Olivia then met [Turpie] and ran away with him, breaking off the contract with Crest illegally. Crest decided not to pursue this with their solicitor as she and her mother were "so lovely". Purple goddess (talk) 04:31, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Already done - Date of death is already present multiple times in the article. MadGuy7023 (talk) 20:04, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
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Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:06, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:11, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
