Did she have dual-citizenship? [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 05:33, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
Did she have dual-citizenship? [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 05:33, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
Everyone who comes to Australia has dual citizenship unless they specifically revoke it, which is very rare. Politicians have to do it before standing for parliament (and some forget) but most people never bother. It's just not a thing. Many Australians of that generation were born in the UK and grew up in Australia. Most consider themselves Australian. [[User:Timb66|Timb66]] ([[User talk:Timb66|talk]]) 05:56, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
== Death ==
== Death ==
Revision as of 05:56, 13 August 2022
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Olivia Newton-John article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
Olivia Newton-John is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject East Anglia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of East Anglia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.East AngliaWikipedia:WikiProject East AngliaTemplate:WikiProject East AngliaEast Anglia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Eurovision, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Eurovision-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EurovisionWikipedia:WikiProject EurovisionTemplate:WikiProject EurovisionEurovision articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
An item related to this article has been nominated to appear on the Main Page in the "In the news" section. You can visit the nomination to take part in the discussion. Editors are encouraged to update the article with information obtained from reliable news sources to include recent events.
Notice date: 8 August 2022. Please remove this template when the nomination process has concluded, replacing it with Template:ITN talk if appropriate.
This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 10 sections are present.
"changed their contracts"
The following paragraph makes it sound as though records companies dictate contract terms. However, contracts are by definition negotiated. The company and the artist agree on a set of terms. The paragraph should be revised to reflect this fact.
Paragraph:
As a result of the lawsuit, record companies changed their contracts to be based on a set number of albums recorded by a musician and not a specific number of years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.84.83.38 (talk) 19:47, July 24, 2021 (UTC)
Request for comment (should "British" or place of birth be in the lead sentence?)
Another editor insists that ONJ is a "British-born Australian".[1] However, this overlooks the fact that she is a dual British Australian citizen, as evidenced by her British award of Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire (DBE) in the 2020 New Year Honours. I believe that she should be described as "British-Australian". Thoughts? WWGB (talk) 12:27, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
She was Australian. The fact that she was born in the UK and presumably retained dual citizenship is irrelevant. She identified as Australian and I'm guessing would never have described herself as Australian. References would be needed to establish otherwise. Timb66 (talk) 11:41, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is not "irrelevant" that she had dual citizenship. Articles reflect facts, not just what a person identified as. But I'm not sure that "British-Australian" is appropriate either as that is no more a nationality than the term "Irish-American" usually is. It might be a bit complicated but something along the lines of "was a British-born Australian singer" and then mentioning her dual citizenship in some way seems the most appropriate solution to me. Otherwise I don't see how this issue will ever be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Afterwriting (talk) 12:05, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Being Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire is significant, she was also British, it can't be excluded. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss20:00, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Rubbish. Are you Australian? I am, eith similar background to ONJ. I have never bothered to relinquish my UK citizenship but that doesn't mean anything. Timb66 (talk) 21:40, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And yes, she was born in the UK. This fact is mentioned in the appropriate place. It would give undue weighting to include this in the lead sentence. Why not also mention she was blond and right-handed? Timb66 (talk) 21:43, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not relevant. Don Bradman was made a knight. And both Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard were born in the UK, but are still Australian. You need to provide evidence that being named a dame makes one British. And then justification that this is so important that it belongs in the opening sentence Timb66 (talk) 22:30, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also note that eligibility for the honour you mentioned simply requires being a citizen of a Commonwealth country. There are dozens of recipients who are Australian by birth, such as Greg Chappell. So this honour does not imply Britishness Timb66 (talk) 22:40, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:ETHNICITY only mention birth location in lead if relevant to notability - it isn't in this case. She did nothing notable in the UK - she left when 6 - started her career in Australia. Identifies as Australian. Known as Australian. Geraldo Perez (talk) 01:15, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
agreed, WP:ETHNICITY is very clear. Why are people still editing the lead to insert her place of birth, rather than discussing here? Timb66 (talk) 08:14, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Being an official representative of the UK in Eurovision is a significant for being British. Did she ever represent Australia in an international competition? If not, that would be cause for removing Australian. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss19:56, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If she was born in the UK? then use "British-Australian". PS - We're using "US" as her DOD, but not "UK" as her DOB? Why the inconsistency? GoodDay (talk) 12:22, 10 August 2022 (UTC) GoodDay (talk) 12:20, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think a single Eurovision entry for the UK at a time when Australia was excluded is notable enough to justify mentioning in the lead sentence. It gives undue weight. Timb66 (talk) 11:31, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, born in the UK, represented UK in Eurovision, British citizen, Dame commander by appointment of the Queen, she is more British than Aussie. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss19:37, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, now you're getting ridiculous Lilach. I hope that comment was a joke. If not, I'm afraid you've lost objectivity :-) Timb66 (talk) 21:48, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Representation is not relevant here. She was not a sportsperson, she was a pop star. The primary activity of a pop star is entertainment, making records, making films, etc. Timb66 (talk) 05:02, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Dual citizenship can be covered in the infobox - no need to add XYZ born in most cases as it doesn’t really add anything of value I feel, as birthplace is not mentioned in the first sentence of the lead. Now, I don’t know how ONJ felt about her own identity, but referring to her as Australian seems appropriate as she lived there from the age of six. Unless a source can be found where she self identified as British in any way then leave as is. Also, English would be inappropriate considering her heritage. Regards, SinoDevonian (talk) 12:18, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To editors, please do not insert place of birth, it violates WP:ETHNICITY, as discussed above. British heritage is not sufficiently notable to br included in the lead. Timb66 (talk) 20:56, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Her own statements should hold the greatest weight. When asked about her citizenship in 2017, being asked specifically whether she was British, Australian or American, she stated without qualification: I am still Australian. Cullen328 (talk) 21:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
She had the option to say that she was Australian AND British or even American too, since the US was her primary residence for decades. But the only one she mentioned was Australian. Cullen328 (talk) 21:27, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Please read WP:ETHNICITY and explain why her place of birth is notable enough to be included in the lead. And see previous comments above. Thanks, Tim Timb66 (talk) 21:09, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Incorrect. Prior to about 1984, British subjects who emigrated to Australia were granted full voting rights. Therefore, they did not need to take out Australian citizenship and most didn't bother. Most still considered themselves Australian. Is there any that ONJ considered didn't? Timb66 (talk) 21:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Concerning the 2017 interview cited above, the relevant text is this:
JF: Do you still live in California?
ONJ: We live between California and Florida and Australia. We are always moving it seems.
JF: Are you technically a British, American or Australian citizen at this point?
ONJ: I am still Australian.
It seems clear her use of "still" was regarding the fact that she lived in the US for much of her life. I haven't seen any evidence that she ever considered herself British. Timb66 (talk) 21:26, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The fact she never relinquished her British citizenship makes highly appropriate to include British as her nationality.British-Australian is therefore appropriate. Not to do so and simply put Australian as her citizenship is factually wrong.
There are many videos of Olivia saying she's English and/or British. There's actually a YouTube video trending right this moment where she corrects the host by telling him she's English, was raised for 10 years in Australia, then went back to England, at the 3:49 mark. The host thought she was actually Australian. The following 2019 quote can be found in tons of news sites of Olivia saying, "As a girl born in Cambridge, I am very proud of my British ancestry and so appreciative to be recognised in this way by the United Kingdom." [1] Most people hope to come to Wikipedia to find information about someone or something that is based on facts, not feelings /emotions. Mindfullyact (talk) 01:40, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The biography should say she is British-Australian. She held dual citizenship as an adult, and most of her childhood was spent in Australia. Her first musical project was a singing group in Australia when she was 14, and she won a contest with first prize a trip to London. Her musical "origin" is Australia. Certainly she was British, and just as certainly she was Australian. The formulation "British-born" puts her British heritage at too far of a remove, since she returned to the UK at the age of 18, and her first commercial success was in the UK.
How about we avoid labelling completely? It rarely helps. Briefly say "Born in Britain. Grew up in Australia, then lived in the USA". HiLo48 (talk) 02:43, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Everyone who comes to Australia has dual citizenship unless they specifically revoke it, which is very rare. Politicians have to do it before standing for parliament (and some forget) but most people never bother. It's just not a thing. Many Australians of that generation were born in the UK and grew up in Australia. Most consider themselves Australian. Timb66 (talk) 05:56, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You added a source from some local news agency. We finally got one from a better outlet (Parade)... I'll replace it when something better comes along.
Please remember, Wikipedia is not a news outlet. We do not care about being the first to break news on a celebrity death. We care about accurate info. EvergreenFir(talk)19:46, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the 1970s (or '80s), there was a claim that she was gay/homosexual or perhaps bisexual. Was this topic ever addressed by her? Skimming the section on relationships, I saw none, and saw nothing in the article that mentions this at all. Thank you! Misty MH (talk) 20:49, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Misty MH: look at this interview: "Question: I came across a video of you acknowledging lesbian rumors that were circulating about you in the ’80s. I had no idea people ever thought you were a lesbian. Answer: Yeah, I remember that. It was very odd. I couldn’t figure out why, but it didn’t do me any harm, obviously. (Laughs) ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss20:55, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's far too trivial to include in the article. It's insignificant, had no effect & is the sort of unsubstantiated claim that's said of hundreds of celebs. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:01, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently her video "Physical" was huge for many in the gay communities. The interview (above) was published by "Pride Source Media Group, LLC. ... PSMG produces the award-winning biweekly LGBTQ+ print publication..."; and in it the interviewer says that her video "Physical" was "groundbreaking" for the gay community because it had a couple of gay people holding hands in it. And it says the gay community was a huge fan of hers. More below about the details of the video, but first...
Here's the more-complete interview discussion (partly quoted above by another editor) related to the rumors, asked of her in the interview:
"[Interviewer] I came across a video of you acknowledging lesbian rumors that were circulating about you in the ’80s. I had no idea people ever thought you were a lesbian.
[Newton-John] Yeah, I remember that. It was very odd. I couldn’t figure out why, but it didn’t do me any harm, obviously. (Laughs)
[Interviewer] Actually, I think it might’ve benefited you.
[Newton-John] I think it was probably a good rumor! It was a nice rumor, not a mean rumor.
[Interviewer] Do mean rumors about Olivia Newton-John actually exist?
[Newton-John] I’m sure there have been some! I try not to tune in to negativity. I tune that stuff out, so I don’t know."
And a bit more about the video (and there is more at the link):
"[Interviewer] Like many gay men of my generation, my introduction to you was the “Physical” video. I remember being surprised seeing two gay men walking out of the gym together, holding hands. Considering being gay was more taboo during that time, how do you reflect on that groundbreaking moment when it comes to gay inclusivity?
[Newton-John] You know what, I don’t think I even realized it at the time. ..."
I would say that "groundbreaking" would be pretty notable. :)
There is a nice 1980 one in colour that we could crop, she's on the far left and can be cut out. Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh meet Australian entertainers who performed in a Royal Charity Concert at the Sydney Opera House [in 1980]. Performers include (from left): pianist Roger Woodward, comedian Paul Hogan and singer Olivia Newton-John. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss04:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Chart positions
The constant inclusions of positions on multiple different charts in one particular North American country make for a very frustrating read. It would be better, IMO, with fewer US chart positions, and noting when singles do especially well in Aus, UK or the US (e.g. noting that Xanadu was a UK number one instead of a US Top 10 hit). EuroAgurbash (talk) 23:23, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Her back pains had initially been misdiagnosed as sciatica." She likely had a metastasis to her low back that caused her to experience sciatica. The diagnosis of sciatica was likely correct, but the cause of that sciatica (the met) was missed. Pgemmell2 (talk) 02:57, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
When Olivia Newton-John was 16 she signed with Crest Records, an Australian-victorian based record company. Around this time her father cheated on her mother and the consequences of this relationship left Olivia "uncontrollable" according to her mother in a conversation to the head of Crest Records, Marcus Herman. Olivia then met [Turpie] and ran away with him, breaking off the contract with Crest illegally. Crest decided not to pursue this with their solicitor as she and her mother were "so lovely". Purple goddess (talk) 04:31, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
the info box picture has been changed over and over again. normally when a old school celebrity dies, they get changed to a black-and-white picture depicting the height of their popularity/career. so far this year, multiple celebrities have gotten this, regardless of the way they die. examples this year include Meat Loaf, Richard Leakey, Michel Bouquet, and Ronnie Spector. in my opinion the black-and-white photo should stay in her infobox. 4me689 (talk) 01:05, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
.svg){kind=logo}
.svg){kind=small}
Already done - Date of death is already present multiple times in the article. MadGuy7023 (talk) 20:04, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
.jpg)
Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:06, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:11, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
