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April 18

French Bread?

As the French don't seem too keen on sliced bread, do they have an equivalent phrase for 'the best thing since sliced bread'? 137.138.46.155 07:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some people actually do say things like la meilleure chose depuis l'invention du pain tranché, but this is of course a jocular direct translation of the American expression. To make it more French, baguettes can be substituted for pain, other snowclones being the invention of le fil à couper le beurre ("the wire for cutting butter") or the apparition of the brioche. I couldn't find any specific French idiom for saying something hyperbolic like Cette invention est une innovation formidable qui ouvre la porte à une nouvelle mode de vivre. --Lambiam ^Talk 08:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A French would say qui ouvre la porte à ~~un nouvel art de vivre~~ de nouveaux modes de vie.195.33.65.134 08:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To be sarcastic, a French would say things like la meilleure invention depuis l'invention du fil à couper le beurre or la meilleure invention depuis l'eau tiède. To be admiring one would say la meilleure invention depuis la roue, la meilleure invention depuis Gutenberg or la meilleure invention depuis l'imprimerie.195.33.65.134 08:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about "the best thing since the manage et trois ?" StuRat 04:39, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you mean the 'ménage à trois' which I translate as 'housework for three'137.138.46.155 07:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The meaning of 'ménage' in this phase is 'family'. 'ménage à trois' means 'The wife, the husband and the lover'. 195.33.65.134 08:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, or household I believe, I was kinda joking, as the only time at school you come across ménage is in the housework context. Doesn't sound quite as fun does it! I wonder if threesomes came before or after sliced bread?137.138.46.155 06:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Translating Scientific American into Spanish

I'm a native Spanish speaker, but I'm not sure how that would be said in Spanish, since "científico estadounidense" would be "American scientist". How would it be? PS:That magazine here is known as "Investigación y ciencia" (Science and research). --Taraborn 10:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does it work better if you reverse the order ("Estadounidense cientifico")? In English, "Scientific" modifies "American" and therefore precedes it; in Spanish, the reverse order would be typical. Marco polo 12:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That would be possible, but sounds a little bit... stupid to me, I don't know. What do you understand by "Scientific American"? Does it mean approximately the same "American scientist" and "Scientific American"? Do you picture an American citizen becoming a scientist by reading the magazine? You see, my problem in coming up with a translation is that I think I don't fully understand the subtleties of the magazine's name. --Taraborn 19:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The name "Scientific American" suggests that it is meant to appeal to ... the scientific American, or the American who is interested in science, but not necessarily a scientist. It sounds to me as if the problem is that "científico" means "scientist", particularly when it appears next to a word that can be an adjective applied to individual people, such as "estadounidense". Maybe it would be better to replace "científico" with "de las ciencias" or some such, so that you have "estadounidense de las ciencias" or something along those lines. (edited) Marco polo 19:47, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Scientific American" is hard to translate since it's not normal English. We would normally say, "American interested in science" or something. Perhaps it would be best to leave it untranslated in whatever you are doing, considering how "scientific" and "American" have cognates in Spanish. -- Mwalcoff 22:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aha, now I get it. Thanks to both. --Taraborn 23:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I always thought that the two words were both adjectives, and there was an implied noun: 'scientific American (magazine). So, 'la (revista) cientfica estadouniense'. Duomillia 01:30, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds nice too. Thanks. --Taraborn 10:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Browse hieroglyphs

Good morning,

on the page about Egypt, there is the name of the country in egyptian, misteriously written as "km.t". How do I trade those letters for regular hieroglyphs? It seems that there's a particular "/hiero" tag on the page. What do I use to interpret that? I've tried Opera 9.20, Firefox 2.0.0.3 and Internet Explorer 6 SP1, unsuccessfully. Is there a particular browser for that?

Thank you in advance for your attention, Henrique

If you browse down to the section Egypt#Etymology, it should display for you the heiroglyphs for km.t. I know that this works in Mozilla 2.0.0.3, and just checked it in Internet Explorer 6.0.2900. -- nae'blis 21:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese language

Is Chinese a single language or a group of languages? Heegoop, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Both designations are tenable, and it really depends on somewhat arbitrary details of when you stop talking about "different varieties of a language" and start calling them "separate languages". The road leading from one to the other is continuous, without clearly identifiable breaking points or other clear criteria. Our article Chinese language says: "Chinese ... can be considered a language or a language family". In ISO 639, Chinese is classified as a "macrolanguage". As our article Language notes: "There is no clear distinction between a language and a dialect [...]. In other words, the distinction may hinge on political considerations as much as on cultural differences, distinctive writing systems, or degree of mutual intelligibility." If you require mutual intelligibility, then Mandarin (linguistics) is also not a single language with dialects – and neither are English, Dutch or Italian, for that matter. --Lambiam ^Talk 21:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My analogy is to think of languages like colours on a spectrum. If you compare green and orange, they are clearly not the same. But if you compare, say, dark blue with medium dark blue, you can say they are both the 'same': they're both blue, but not the exact same shade of blue. Same with languages. Obvious, compare English and Chinese and they are not the same. But compare the language in Beijing with the languages in a village X kilometers away from Beijing, compare with what they speak in Shanghai or Guangdong and you can see obvious patterns for comparison even though some of the people you talk to speak mutually incomprehensibly. Duomillia 01:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Who said "A language is a dialect with an army and a fleet"? —Tamfang 21:57, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A language is a dialect with an army and navy? Nobody knows, but it was Max Weinreich who wrote it down. --Kjoonlee 23:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bokmal and Nynorsk

Can Bokmal and Nynorsk use some of the same words together? Heegoop, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Bokmål and Nynorsk share some words, sure. An example is mange hus, meaning "many houses" in both, as well as in Danish. --Lambiam ^Talk 03:43, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

April 19

three geologic terms

Dear Wikipedians:

Does any one know how to translate the following three Chinese geology terms into English?

江滩
洲滩
湖滩

Thanks a lot!

69.158.187.199 00:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

how to make your handwriting look like it's not your's

How do I to make my handwriting look like it's not mine, so it looks like another person wrote it? All the search engines and even a ChaCha guide can't find anything. SakotGrimshine 00:11, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unless you're an extremely skillful forger, I'd say it's virtually impossible. But IANAG (= I am not a graphologist). JackofOz 00:25, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Use your other hand. Sure, it will look horrible at first but with practice you can train your other hand to be able to write. Dismas|^(talk) 00:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried with my other hand before and it looks just like my write hand, only with a stronger style of the imperfections in how I write. Anyone know any websites with information? SakotGrimshine 00:39, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Writing with your non-dominant hand may disguise your identity, but it will not resemble another person's writing, unless, perhaps, they are also writing with their non-dominant hand. -- JackofOz 06:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's a limited form of physical acting, really, well a bit like the Meisner technique anyway. It takes practise and imagination. You need to get into that groove and frame of mind of the person (whether fictional or real) whose writing you wish to emulate. You wont fool CSI's graphologists of course, and perfect imitation of an existing person's handwriting is almost impossible, but developing a few other handwriting wrists isn't too difficult, if you practise. ---Sluzzelin talk 08:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you just want to make it look different from your own, and not to copy someone elses writing? If so, identify any quirks you have that may identify you, like a fancy f or an I without a dot etc. Then change them. Write more or less forcefully, in a different pen or pencil, in a different direction, in a different size, and, for extra effect, write slower to feally form your letters or really really fast so it looks messy. Either way it will look different. Also check any repeated spelling mistakes you make and maybe add some new ones to your secret identity writing! Think outside the box 11:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm ... TOTBs advice sounds pretty good, a little too good for comfort? ... *heehee* ... nevertheless, you might also try any of the above while either intoxicated or under the influence of Schizophrenia. HTH. dr.ef.tymac 16:25, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, you can try writing in all capitals, try purposely slanting letters slightly to the left and right, or, as said above, specifically changing personal quirks you recognize, but it is probably impossible to do foolproof-ly. zafiroblue05 | Talk 18:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Write it out one way. Then turn it over. Copy it upside down. Should look pretty different. --24.147.86.187 01:32, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Icosahedrocentrism

Is this the correct way to form the word meaning "a focus on or bias toward the icosahedron" or would it be icosahedracentrism or icosahedronocentrism? Also, could a focus on or bias toward the Windows operating system be called fenestrocentrism? Neon Merlin 05:36, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For the 2nd question, I would go with Windows-centrism, to differentiate from being biased towards physical windows. StuRat 06:37, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Either way, I'd go with parathyrocentrism, since a Greek rather than a Latin root should be used with -centrism. —An gr 08:55, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For the 1st question, the combining form would be the first one you suggest, icosahedro-. Wareh 18:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

upper crust British slang from the late 19th century

Can anyone point me to a lexicon of this description? You know the thing - jolly good show - toodlepip - that kind of thing.

Any suggestions would be spiffing.

Adambrowne666 11:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a dictionary of lower class Victorian Slang. That was easy to find. This article and this article suggests resources for period writing, but do not have an online link to a dictionary. I did come across a mention that the ability to effortlessly use upper class slang was an indicatin that you belonged. Perhaps such dictionaries were suppressed for this reason?-Czmtzc 16:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You might also take a look at U and non-U English. —An gr 16:47, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What about Mitford's writings on "U" and "Non U" language use? Bielle 16:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but I was hoping for something online Adambrowne666 10:03, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You have to be careful, though: a lot of online resources are based on modern British or even American stereotypes of how the U spoke back then. "Toodle-pip", in particular, seems to have been popular in post-World War I times, not in Victorian times, and the only English persons I've ever heard say "toodle-pip" have been working-class.

One good place to learn about slang of the time is in fiction written at about that time by people in that society. If you could find something at Project Gutenberg written by a Briton in the late 19th century you could extrapolate from that. Characters may use less slang in fiction than real people did but they wouldn't use incorrect slang, or they'd have been laughed out of the bookstores. --Charlene 03:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Compatriot

As we use compatriots to mean people from the same country, what word would be used to designate speakers of the same language. I am looking for a word beginning with co- if possible. I feel that colinguists would have a different meaning, and ~~cogots~~ coglots just sounds funny. Cheers! ScouseMouse - スカウサーUK! 15:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that there is an accepted term, but you could use "colingual" or "homoglot", both of which are near-neologisms that do, however, appear if you google them. (Beware that "colingual" also has a meaning in dentistry, I think referring to the side of a tooth facing the tongue.) Marco polo 15:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers, but I was thinking more of a noun, not an adjective, rather like "fellow English speaker", and so on. ScouseMouse - スカウサーUK! 17:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know either, but you're not the first person to wonder this online. I do like the suggested neologism of "homoglot", though. —An gr 17:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For phrases like "fellow English speaker" we have Anglophone. When I lived in Québec, you heard that word, along with francophone quite a bit. However, I cannot think of a more generalized term that isn't language specific, nor do I think the usage of -phone words are that prevalent for other language than the ones listed.-Andrew c 18:13, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why not just say 'fellow English speaker' it doesn't take that long?137.138.46.155 07:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I came up with the question because I'd been reading an article about a company in Belgium banning all workers (esp. foreign) from speaking any language other than Dutch, as speakers of the same languages tend to group together in cliques in much the same way as people in a group of English speakers from various countries tend to form cliques with their compatriots. ScouseMouse - スカウサーUK! 17:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Loïc Leferme

What kind of name is "Loïc "? Breton? Corvus cornix 16:58, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, he was from Nord; could it be a frenchified version of the Flemish equivalent of Dutch Lodewijk "Louis"? —An gr 17:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to this page (which also gives popularity statistics), it is often asserted that this is a Breton version of Ludwig, etc. And here is a discussion board where the name is warmly embraced and given to children by people favoring Breton names. Wareh 18:09, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

French Wikipedia says it's the Provençal version of Louis (the "standard" Occitan variety being Loís, the Breton variety being Loeiz). The page points out that Loïc's Bretonic sound as well its closeness to Loïg, the Armorican (Breton) version of William, fooled even Breton speakers. I didn't see any sources or references on that page, however. ---Sluzzelin talk 18:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Sluzzelin. Corvus cornix 19:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Word "Ideas"

What is the translated word for Ideas in

Greek:
Italian:
Latin:

Thanks, --Doug ^talk 21:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Greek: ἰδέα, from eidon: I saw (from the article idea) − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 22:06, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And the plural of that is ἰδέαι. The word was borrowed into Latin and Italian too; I'm going to guess [ideae] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) for Latin and [idee] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) (three syllables) for Italian. —An gr 22:17, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Of the three languages, only in Italian does idea mean "idea." Although Classical Greek ἰδέα is the ultimate source of our word, it would translate English "idea" only in the case of the Platonic Ideas. English "idea" has many senses; fairly broad terms include Greek doxa (plural doxai) and noēma (pl. noēmata), Latin sententia (pl. sententiae) and notio (pl. notiones). (Follow the links for full dictionary entries describing these words' meanings.) Wareh 23:36, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! --Doug ^talk 11:57, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese

Hello everyone!

I am a new Wikipedian and I am 17 years old. I am located in NJ, United States. For some time now I have been looking to learn Mandarin Chinese, but when it came down to what tools I should buy, I couldn't decide. I have decided on the series "New Practical Chinese Reader", but there are so many aspects of the series. Would you recommend buying the whole set (Textbook, Textbook CDs, Workbook, Workbook CDs, and DVD), or just a select number of these materials? Thanks a lot for the advice!

Corinth85 21:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, for what it's worth, Leeds University, UK (apparently the best Chinese department outside China, we were told) uses that very same series, and all we had was the set of books and the tapes of the textbooks. We didn't use the Workbooks and DVDs weren't invented in those days. Good luck with the course! ScouseMouse - スカウサーUK! 21:59, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This was asked last month as well. See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 March 3#Easiest way to learn Mandarin Chinese? for the discussion. jnestorius^(talk) 22:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Try having a look www.chinesepod.com ! Duomillia 04:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

April 20

Arabic article titles

Anyone here know Arabic? I'm trying to link back to any material the Arabic Wikipedia (or is that the Saudi Wikipedia?) might have on Plague of Emmaus. I think this is the Arab Wikipedia page for Emmaus. This is definitely their plague article (nice pic of Yersinia pestis). Oh, someone's put a resolved tag on this section. I'll toddle off to WP:RD instead. (That Arabic font actually seems to be telling my keyboard it is a right-to-left script, as my delete and backspace key functions have swapped round! Try it yourself.) Carcharoth 05:16, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's the Arabic Wikipedia, the Plague of Emmaus is discussed on the Emmaus article itself, the (Arabic) Emmaus article seems to be a copyvio, and finally, Arabic is a right-to-left script, but delete and backspace serve the same purpose, albeit in reverse.--Kirby♥time 05:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I have closed your small tag for you.--Kirby♥time 05:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What is a word for one who wants to be pititied

What's the word for someone who desires attention and seeks it by being miserable? --JDitto 06:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A person with Munchausen syndrome ? StuRat 06:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Or perhaps martyr syndrome. Sorry, no article at this time. ~ hydnjo talk  06:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is an article at Martyr complex. --Ptcamn 06:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oops! Of course there is, how doubtful of me. :-( ~ hydnjo talk  07:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the speedy quick replies! But...is it actually serious enough to be called a syndrome? --JDitto 06:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A syndrome is "a group of signs and symptoms that occur together and characterize a particular abnormality or condition". Seriousness isn't a part of the characterization. ~ hydnjo talk  06:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is also the "victim complex", which is characterised by an "oh, poor me" attitude toward life and events, but I don't know if it is a psychiatric state or even a personality disorder in any formal sense. Bielle 21:43, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nous / Naus

I understand the word nous is an informal British term meaning "common sense" (intelligence applied in a practical fashion). Can you give me a typical usage of this or how it migh be used in a sentence? Is it used often or is it Old school? Word origination. --Doug ^talk 11:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

-- (Sorry, this is meant to be a reply! dur - RA) An example culled from memory, from a TV interview with a male-to-female transsexual: "I suppose having the operation and the hormone treatment didn't affect your business nous?" I'd say it's used occasionally, with a mildly colloquial feel (appropriate in magazine feature writing, say). It doesn't suggest any particular class or age feel to me - I wouldn't be surprised to hear royalty use it, nor the bloke who's failing to mend my roof at this very moment.

That is interesting because, as an American, I have never heard the word spoken and frankly don't know how to pronounce it. I've seen it in writing, I know that it is in fact a classical Greek word, and I would have thought that it was only used in very learned writing, maybe occasionally spoken by Oxford or Cambridge dons. Marco polo 12:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard it several times in soccer coverage, so it can't be that high-falutin' anymore ("tactical nous" appears to have become a cliche). They usually pronounce it like "nooz" or "noos", if I recall. Recury 13:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Writing from Britain, I can confirm that the word is in quite common use, without any particular feeling of 'class' attached to it. As already stated, it is an Ancient Greek word meaning 'mind', and is pronounced like 'noose' when reading Greek (at least, that was the way I was brought up to read it in Greek). In English, though, it is invariably pronounced to rhyme with 'house'. Maid Marion 14:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

... and is sometimes written "nouse" - see this semi-reliable source, which has both spellings, and Nouse, the University of York student newspaper. Gandalf61 15:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is common more in Northern British than in Southern British, and I can verify that it is always pronounced 'NOW-ss', to rhyme with 'house'.ScouseMouse - スカウサーUK! 16:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The OED has "nous: colloq. or slang. Intelligence, common sense, gumption. (Common from 19th cent.)" and includes the following contemporary illustrations: 1973 Times 22 Feb. 25/1 "If we had had a bit of nous we’d have probably discovered this earlier." 1975 Daily Tel. 29 Jan. 17 "The City, extraordinary as it may sound, has very limited political nous."--Shantavira 17:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! --Doug ^talk 20:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merriam Webster definition:

/'nüs also 'naus/ : MIND, REASON: as a : an intelligent purposive principle of the world b : the divine reason regarded in Neoplatonism as the first emanation of God
/'naus/ chiefly British : COMMON SENSE, ALERTNESS

I guess sense #1 is rare everywhere, whereas sense #2 is common in Britain but even less common than #1 in the U.S. I don't know whether British philosophers still use the Greek/U.S. pronunciation for sense #1. For British usage examples (sense #2), see 50 out of 56 matches from the British National Corpus, although half of these are false positives from French nous "we". jnestorius^(talk) 20:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's quite common in Australia, where it's always pronounced "NOW-ss". JackofOz 00:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any background history on the word NAUS as it pertains to the Merriam Webster definition of "b" above:

the divine reason regarded in Neoplatonism as the first emanation of God

--Doug ^talk 22:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The medieval philosopher Bernard Silvestris called divine providence "nous" (or "noys") in his Cosmographia, if that helps. Adam Bishop 07:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For some background on Neoplatonic Nous, see Lloyd Gerson's SEP article on Plotinus (Nous is discussed under the name "Intellect" in the section "The Three Fundamental Principles of Plotinus' Metaphysics"). Also discussed under "The Intelligence" in this article. If you have subscription access to the Routledge Encyc. of Philosophy, see also here. (Plotinus is the fountainhead of Neoplatonism, which is why I'm referring to expositions of his ideas.) Wareh 11:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! --Doug ^talk 23:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eidos

Is it correct that the word eidos is the same as Platonic Ideas Theory of forms? Would this then have the same basic meaning as American usage of idea? Word origination or history. --Doug ^talk 12:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Greek word eidos means 'form, shape'. It's seen in English in, for example, kaleidoscope ('pretty-shape-viewer'). It's also an element in words ending in -oid; eg, rhombo-eidos becomes rhomboid, shaped like a rhombus. It's different from Greek idea, which is the word I presume you are thinking of in connection with Plato, though I think they are from the same root. Maid Marion 15:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! --Doug ^talk 20:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify, since you may have misunderstood my information on the Greek word idea above. This Greek word does not mean "idea" in any ordinary sense of the English word (other than the extremely rare reference to the Platonic "Ideas"). Therefore, when eidos (in one of its uses) refers to the Platonic Forms, this by itself guarantees that it does not mean "idea" in any ordinary non-philosophical usage (including "American usage"). Now I'm going to confuse things by pointing out something that is 99% likely to be irrelevant to anything. Greek eidos was (according to the lexicon, which see for the word's various meanings) used in the sense "specific notion, meaning, idea" by Aeneas Tacticus. But this is not in any way the basic, normal, or common sense of the word. Wareh 11:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! --Doug ^talk 23:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

German Translation please!

I'm writing answers for my GCSE oral, and need this question translation:
"Was hast du vor, nächstes Jahr zu machen?" (in reference to school)
All I can work out is What do you have to do before next year, but that would presumably need to be "Was muss du ehe nächstes Jahr tun" or similar. Any help welcome! Mit herzlichem Dank in Voraus! MHDIV ɪŋglɪʃnɜː(r)d(Suggestion?|wanna chat?) 20:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The verb in Was hast du vor is vorhaben, which means "to plan, to intend, to have in mind". And why are you writing answers for an oral exam??? —An gr 21:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, thank you very much! you're a life saver! Secondly, as a section of the exam there are about 50 questions which one can prepare, and memorise answers to, or just memorise what they mean. So in the actual exam you have to answer without any notes, so having written answers you can (theoretically) remember to include some complex structures etc., which invariably are lost in spontanious mündlichen Prüfunge, well as this level anyway. MHDIV ɪŋglɪʃnɜː(r)d(Suggestion?|wanna chat?) 21:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

April 21

Usage of a n English proverb

Please let me know the actual usage of " NO USE CRYING OVER SPILT MILK"

It means there's no point being upset about something that has already happened. Storeye 12:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Has anyone notice that <dict.org> is offline – has been for perhaps several days?

More specifically, it means there is no point being upset at something unimportant that has already happened. StuRat 14:38, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia Puzzle Globe

What is the name of every (visible) symbol on the Wikipedia puzzle globe? --Candy-Panda 09:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This has been raised before but I forget the answer. There is a page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Logos_and_slogans) that has details about the Wikipedia globe and also the history of the current logo's creation. After a quick look here (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Final_logo_variants/Nohat) shows you some details. Of the simples I can see there is Omega (the one right below the missing jigsaw piece...the rest I have no idea!! ny156uk 15:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's the opening sound of "Wikipedia" in various languages, although I can't remember what they are other than the Omega (with an apostrophe in front of it, presumably to give the correct pronunciation), and (in in the piece above the W) the Japanese katakana symbols pronounced "wi". Confusing Manifestation 04:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strangely, the one to the right of the W is an Arabic yāʼ, not a wāw. Adam Bishop 07:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

~~Are you sure? I can't see a loop.~~ —Tamfang 20:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Er, yes, I was thinking backwards – the /w/ ought to have a loop. —Tamfang 00:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The old discussion is here --Miskwito 06:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Latin translation request

What exactly is this Latin in English: Epistolarum mearum ad diversos liber ? Thanks, --Doug ^talk 12:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I get: "a book of my letters to different people", does that fit the context? Storeye 12:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thank you!! I originally wrote up an article called Epistolae familiares and found the information from various sources, however never knew exactly what the Latin phrase said (just copied what the source said). I only knew the shorted version meant: "Familiar Letters" (which is Petrarch's letters to different people).--Doug ^talk 15:25, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus

Jerome's name in Latin is Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus. What do these 3 words mean, if they have meanings other than just a name; especially Hieronymus? --Doug ^talk 15:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure they all mean something in Greek. Hieronymus means "sacred name". The other two I'd have to look up. —An gr 15:54, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Appreciate you finding the meaning of "Heironymes". If you stumble across the meanig of the other two let me know:

Eusebius
Sophronius

Thanks again, --Doug ^talk 19:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I looked 'em up. Eusebius means "respectful, pious", and Sophronius means "temperate, moderate". —An gr 05:07, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for these meanings. Appreciate it! --Doug ^talk 11:51, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

German help (again!)

Is there a good german word for Online or a phrase for on the internet. All I can get from my Wörterbuch is onlineö hardly a very german word! MHDIV MHDIV ɪŋglɪʃnɜː(r)d(Suggestion?|wanna chat?) 15:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, like it or not, online is the German word for online. Just pronounce it with a German accent. For "on the Internet" you can say im Internet (in German, you're in the Internet rather than on it). —An gr 15:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A simple thing to do is to go to our articles on Online and Internet and look at the interwiki links in the left column to find de:Online and de:Internet. Just a tip that helps me sometimes.-Andrew c 01:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

episcopus and episcopos

Do these two words have the same meaning and are they basically the same word? I understand they basically mean that of a bishop. Bishop comes from the Greek word episkopos (επίσκοπος, from επι "over" and σκοπος "seeing"). It can be generally translated as an "overseer", superintendent, supervisor, the first, leader or foreman. Could it also have meaning of:

Most interested in the word as spelled "episcopus". --Doug ^talk 19:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Many masculine nouns in Proto Indo-European ended in '-os', and generally in Greek that ending was retained for them. In early Latin, in many contexts 'o' was raised to 'u', and in particular the common thematic ending in '-os'. Many of the words that we get from Greek, or which were coined from Greek roots, come to us in Latinised form, (besides '-us' for '-os', we also get 'oe' and 'ae' for 'oi' and 'ai', and 'c' for 'k'). Thus 'episcopos' or 'episkopos' is a directly transliterated form, and 'episcopus' a Latinised form, of Greek 'επισκοπος'. It is possible that the two different forms have become attached to distinct senses, but I'm not aware of such a distinction.

Again, it is possible that the word has been used for any of those specific ranks (though not, I would think, 'statesman' which is not a rank), but I don't think it has every regularly been so used. --ColinFine 00:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great answer. Appreciate you explaining of these letters. It clears things up. Thanks! Also I now have a better idea that this word was used for a "rank". --Doug ^talk 12:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Greek episkopos was not used for military commanders, and specifically was not used for actual or equivalent consuls, proconsuls, commanders, or generals. When it doesn't have its literal common-noun meaning of "overseer" of someone/something, it is used for officials who oversee things like harbors & roads, or of Athenian "inspectors" sent out to subject states of the Athenian Empire, or various municipal officials. Wareh 13:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That makes it much more clear. Could the word bishop have been used to signify or represent ranks of consuls, proconsuls, commanders, or generals? --Doug ^talk 14:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, it was not used in that way. Wareh 16:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Greek roots

In reference to: Many of the words that we get from Greek, or which were coined from Greek roots, come to us in Latinised form:

'oe' for 'oi'
'ae' for 'ai'

Do these letters then sometimes get turn around in time for some words that are Latinised or put into English? For example:

'oi' becomes 'io'
'ae' becomes 'ea'

--Doug ^talk 13:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, neither of those changes would happen. Wareh 13:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Although phoenix does often become pheonix. :P —Tamfang 20:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

April 22

Nazoraios

In Wikipedia the name Nazarene has several meanings. It says: the BAGD Lexicon suggests that Nazarene (if translated thus from "Nazoraios") meant something else before it was connected with Nazareth (an ancient town in Israel). Is there any history on the word "Nazoraios" and it meaning? Looking under Biblical names its meaning here is:

Nazareth, separated; crowned; sanctified (isn't this similar to meanig of "Christ"?)
Nazarite, one chosen or set apart (isn't this the same meaning for the word "holy"?)

Thanks, --Doug ^talk 13:17, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For "nazarite," see nazirite. Wareh 18:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Singaporean English

I am trying to analyse a weblog text written by a Singaporean teenager. He uses a lot of Singlish words, and I can't make out if they are variants of the typically Singlish discourse particles or if any of them might be some kind of tag questions, interjections or even address terms. (I'm provisionally assuming that they are discourse particles spelt with a z at the end, but I need to be certain!)
The words I'm having problems with are lahz, lorz, haiyz and lehz. Googling haiyz, for instance, results in a lot of hits for Sing blogs.
Thanks, --Bonadea 14:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Words ending in z rather than s are common in leet. I think we'd have to see an example of the text to identify them. Do they only occur in sentence final positions? Secretlondon 06:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good point about the s -> z -- the thing is that the Singlish discourse particles I suspect don't end with an s. Of course l33t sometimes adds a z to words, and that's probably what is going on here. Example sentences: "yest didnt manage to finish my hw so later gtta do lorz.. haiyz so sad" "well, it's a nice book lahz, make ya reflect upon many stuff.." and "but i think tt if i realli gt that for my o's i will die lehz.." Most of them are in clause (if not sentence) final positions, except for haiyz which can occur on its own or initially. --Bonadea 14:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

April 23

Pronunciation/transcription of a Serbian name

On the Discussion page for the artist Đorđe Andrejević Kun, I've posted a query regarding the pronunciation of the artist's name. I need to transcribe his name into Hebrew and English; for the latter, the data base program uses only Roman alphabetic characters and doesn't support diacritics. -- Thanks, Deborahjay 06:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can't give you IPA or a standard English transcription, but it's pronounced Djordjë Andreyevich Koon. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:44, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Đorđe is the Serbian form of George, if that helps. Adam Bishop 07:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Responding to the original's poster follow-up question on my user talk page) The sound of dj is that of j in jay, as in Deborahjay. And the 'ë' was supposed to signify a monophtong at the end, like 'é' in French, and unlike the anglotypical diphtong ay in Deborahjay. ---Sluzzelin talk 07:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not customary to transliterate Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian into English, since they can be written in the Latin alphabet. The only commonly used replacement is dj in place of đ; otherwise diacritics are simply dropped (for example Zoran Đinđić was usually known as Zoran Djindjic in the English-language press). So for your English database, I'd recommend Djordje Andrejevic Kun. For Hebrew, how about ג׳ורג׳ה אנדריוויטש קון? —An gr 16:18, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that's what we'll use in the English. As for the Hebrew, note the conventional spelling of the ending ,'ביץ- ; the way you wrote it is characteristic of Yiddish. True, the "ב" in the initial position of the syllable ought to take a dagesh and be pronounced as though /b/ rather than /v/, but this is apparently a time-honored practice to which our Archives' data base adheres. -- Deborahjay 20:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any way to make it clear in Hebrew that the name is four syllables long? אנדריביץ׳ looks so much like "Andrivich" instead of "Andreyevich". —An gr 21:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, hadn't noticed the original suggestion was for "אנדרי"; we would use a double yod, i.e. "אנדריי", to indicate that vowel. It approximates as "Andreyvich" which is about as close as Hebrew gets; if you think that's bad, I can assure you that the Hebrew transcription of French is far less adequate! -- Deborahjay 21:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When is qoph (ק) preferred to kaph? —Tamfang 20:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know; I suppose kaph would work just as well, but my impression (which is based on very limited evidence and could easily be wrong) is that Modern Hebrew prefers qoph to kaph letters when transcribing foreign /k/ sounds. —An gr 20:36, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Confirming Angr's latter remark on the use of qoph (ק) in transcription or transliteration of foreign names and words. Additionally, the letter kaph (כ) only has the /k/ sound in the initial position of a syllable, so doesn't serve the purpose across the board. I believe the same rule applies in Yiddish, another language written in Hebrew characters. -- Deborahjay 20:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Yiddish, /k/ is always spelled with qoph, while kaph only has the /x/ sound, except in words of Hebrew/Aramaic origin, which are spelled as in the original language. So the Yiddish word for kosher starts with a kaph, because it does in Hebrew, but that's one of the few times kaph has the /k/ sound. In Yiddish, kaph is spelled with the dagesh (כּ) when it has the /k/ sound. —An gr 20:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quite so, and how revealing of my own cultural bias: I didn't mention the use of kaph in words of Hebrew origin, because I was thinking only of words that entered Yiddish from "foreign" languages, and evidently I consider Hebrew, as a Jewish language, to be integral to Yiddish! -- Deborahjay 21:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Racking my brains for an english term.

I once heard a really nice term for the dirt paths that form on grass from people walking over the grass to take a shortcut. Something like "Persuasion lines". But much more elegant. I've been racking my brain for weeks! Capuchin 19:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Desire lines? ---Sluzzelin talk 19:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I just could not think of the word desire!! Capuchin 19:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rendering my name in Japanese

I'm looking for some guidence in how to write my name (Matthew Durrant) in katakana. I thought something simple like マト　ヅラント　would work, but a little bit of Googling suggests that this isn't a very common transliteration (or it could just be that Durrant is a quite rare surname in Japan?). Can anyone with more knowledge suggest something? (Also, if there are any particularly interesting ways of spelling my name with kanji...) Thanks. Sum0 20:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The usual transliteration of Matthew is マシュー (i.e. Mashuu), though マット (Matto) works for Matt. As for Durrant, it looks like you're paying too close attention to the spelling and not the pronunciation: assuming Durrant is pronounced the way it looks, the u corresponds to Japanese a, not u; and the kana ヅ is pronounced zu, not du. I guess Durrant would be ダラント.

Foreign names are not usually written in kanji. --Ptcamn 20:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply, it's informative. I pronounce Durrant as "duh-rant", (though it can be pronounced "doo-rant") which is indeed closer to "da" than "du" (I don't suppose it's possible to get a closer sound). Just out of interest, is there a way to get the "du" sound in katakana? Sum0 20:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ドゥ, I think. And my Japanese Bible gives St. Matthew's name as マタイ (Matai). —An gr 20:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, ドゥ. It's sortof a kludge, as Japanese does not normally have "du". --Ptcamn 21:18, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, neither Will nor Ariel Durant has an article in the Japanese encyclopedia that would allow us to see the name is rendered. I suspect it would be ドゥラント, though. —An gr 05:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew in the Japanese and Chinese Bibles are both roughly マタイ (matai) because that's taken from his Hebrew name, Mattay. And there is a Japanese Duran Duran page. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 06:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

April 24

Opposite of aquatic

What's a word that is the opposite of aquatic? I want to talk about all the plants that don't live under water. Terrestrial comes to mind, but apparently plants that live in trees and ones that live on rocks have other terms. Any ideas?

Aaadddaaammm 00:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would venture "boreal" and "lithic", but I'm not sure if those terms are used in botany. Bhumiya (said/done) 01:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there's always "non-aquatic" (or "nonaquatic" if you prefer). If there are several kinds of non-aquatic plants, that may well be the best you can do. On the other hand, if the word you want does exist, the Science desk might be a better place to find it. --Anonymous, April 24, 2007, 01:42 (UTC).

First thing that came to mind for me was terrestrial, which has "non-aquatic" as a definition [1].-Andrew c 01:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Non-hydrophytic" gets quite a few ghits, but it seems to have a specialized meaning to do with wetlands. Bhumiya (said/done) 02:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all your suggestions, I guess I'll just go with terrestrial. It sounds flasher than non-aquatic. Aaadddaaammm 02:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is 10.10 properly pronounced "ten point one zero"?

Is 10.10 properly pronounced "ten point one zero" as opposed to "ten point ten"? --Seans Potato Business 10:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you're talking about a decimal number, then you wouldn't normally include the last zero. It's just "ten point one". --Richardrj ^talk ^email 10:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there needs to be a certain number of significant figures. and if so, yes, "ten point one zero" not "ten point ten". Storeye 10:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is a convention in science and engineering that 10.10 means "between 10.095 and 10.105", whereas 10.1 means "between 10.05 and 10.15", but in normal usage 10.10 can be pronounced in any unambiguous way. "Ten-point-one" and "ten-point-one-zero" are acceptable, but "ten-point-ten" would convey the same information adequately, even if it would be regarded as unusual. --Tony Sidaway 10:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the context of software versioning, it may be "ten point ten". Sometimes people want to pronounce that differently to make sure you are understanding that the first and second numbers are major and minor revision numbers, respectively, and not to imply some precise measurement. I can't claim to know anything about how common or proper this is. Root⁴(one) 11:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In French, however, it would be dix virgule dix, I believe, because in France it is correct to read numbers after the point (comma) as if they were ordinals. No idea how you read out a transcendental number... Notinasnaid 12:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dictionaries, phonebooks, "alphabetical order"?

How are those done in Chinese? Is it by the number of strokes? Thanks.--Kirby♥time 11:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From Chinese character#Dictionaries: "Dozens of indexing schemes have been created for arranging Chinese characters in Chinese dictionaries. The great majority of these schemes have appeared in only a single dictionary; only one such system has achieved truly widespread use. This is the system of radicals." Follow the link to Chinese dictionaries for what appears to be Wikipedia's fullest treatment. (The multi-lingual overview of this topic is Collation.) So, is radical-and-stroke sorting used for telephone directories in China? Wareh 13:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a Chinese speaker. In dictionaries that are based solely on Mandarin, characters are arranged in pinyin order. The headings of each syllable also contain the bopomofo. In the index, characters are also arranged in stroke order. Dictionaries that don't follow pinyin will most likely be arranged in stroke order only, like in a dictionary with both pinyin and Cantonese pinyin.--61.92.239.192 14:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Could you clarify what you mean by "arranged in stroke order"? For example, how would the word above be sorted based on its stroke order? Thanks! --TotoBaggins 16:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's a Chinese word ? It looks amazingly like the letters "ijk" to me. StuRat 17:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Titles and forms of address in Botswana

I'm doing some work on the pages related to The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency series of novels set in roughly present-day Botswana, and need to understand the following:

The meaning and pronunciation of Mma and Rra as titles attached to women's and men's surnames (respectively) as well as being a stand-alone, direct form of address.
The use of Mma or Rra for some characters, vs. Mrs or Mr for others.

Perhaps this is some indication of the ethnic or tribal origin of the characters? Example: A Mr Buthelezi (so called in the author's third-person reference), son of a Zulu father and Motswana mother, is addressed as "Rra" by the Motswana protagonist, Mma Ramotswe. -- Thanks, Deborahjay 13:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of names of groups of animals

I am trying to find a list of names of groups of animals but am having no luck. For example, a group of whales is known as a pod, a group of birds is called a flock. I have seen extensive lists in the past but can not figure out how to search for this particular topic. Can you help?

The phrase you want to search for is "collective noun". There are some lists of collective nouns here at Wikipedia and there are other lists here and there on the Internets - however, there's always a risk that somebody has been having fun and made things up themselves, so before using any of the fun new ones you should probably double-check. --Bonadea 18:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just found the Oxford University Press list of collective nouns for animals - that should be safe enough to use :-) It's here: http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/collective/ --Bonadea 18:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. I had never heard of the term "collective noun". Just learned my new thing for the day. The www.askoxford.com reference looks interesting for future use. Someone here at work just suggested two new "collective nouns": a giggle of gay men and an anger of lesbians. But, being the PC person I am I would never repeat that in polite company. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.99.65.8 (talk) 18:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Proper use of multiple titles in business salutations

I am trying to find information on the proper use of titles in business salutations. For example, I am sending a letter to a married couple, Michael and Sally Jones. The husband is a Doctor. Would I address the letter to Dr. Michael and Sally Jones? I was considering using Dr. and Mrs. Michael Jones, but since I work for a women's health clinic I would like to avoid using that particular option. I also have several other people with formal titles such as Professor, Reverend, etc. Also, what do I do if both husband and wife are Doctors? Would I say Dr.'s Michael and Sally Jones, Dr. Michael and Dr. Sally Jones? I have no idea, please help! If there are any guides similar to the MLA handbook for this kind of thing I would love for someone to help me find it. Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.97.180.18 (talk) 18:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

The traditional solution is indeed "Dr. and Mrs. Michael Jones". If that doesn't appeal to you, I'd say put the names on separate lines, with the woman's name first:

Ms. Sally Jones
Dr. Michael Jones

I'd do that also in the case where they are both doctors:

Dr. Sally Jones
Dr. Michael Jones

—An gr 19:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but as far as putting them together, such as Dr. Michael and Sally Jones if one is a doctor or Dr. Michael and Dr. Sally Jones...what's correct...I'm stuck! I would like to have it all on one line. Even if it looks bad, I was just wondering what the grammatically correct way of combining the two salutations and names would be. Thanks!