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It's too early to wonder why he did it. He could have accidentaly killed his wife, and then killed his son, we don't know. All we know at this point is he and his family are dead, and the evidence points to him as the killer. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|Plasma Twa 2]] 17:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
It's too early to wonder why he did it. He could have accidentaly killed his wife, and then killed his son, we don't know. All we know at this point is he and his family are dead, and the evidence points to him as the killer. --[[User:Plasma Twa 2|Plasma Twa 2]] 17:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I can't believe it. I'm just crying right now just reading this man. I just really can't believe it.[[User:BigBoi29|BigBoi29]] 17:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)BigBoi29

Revision as of 17:56, 26 June 2007


Please note that this Talk page is for discussion of changes to the Chris Benoit article. Off-topic discussions, including tributes, are not appropriate for Wikipedia and will be REMOVED. Thank You For Your Cooperation!

Former good article nomineeChris Benoit was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 22, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
May 10, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee
Archive
Archives
Archive 1: March 23, 2004 - June 24, 2007 Archive 2: June 25, 2007 - June 26, 2007 at

Request Full Protection

Registered users such as 217mattq are editing the entry with profane or useless information (until the investigation is done). I think a request for full protection on the article needs to be implemented. GZAdmin 05:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, it's all wild speculation until an autopsy report comes out, and even after that I suspect there will be continued vandalism done even by registered users. IrisKawling 05:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't require full-protection, only a few cases of vandalism. Warn the users. — Moe ε 05:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question: how is it that accounts only one minute old can edit this article? What's the time requirement for "newly created accounts"? Rklawton 06:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Doubt they were one minute old, some accounts are created and never used until situations like this. 4 days I believe is the requirement for "new" accounts. — Moe ε 06:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yeah, I'd read about that awhile back. I must be getting tired. Keep an eye on the article 'till I get back, will ya? And don't notify Office about anything k? Rklawton 06:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's been fully protected after some throw-away accounts were used to continue vandalizing the article. — Moe ε 06:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since when has simple vandalism become a problem? Please semi-protect the article so that you may allow the free flow of information. Thanks. ~ UBeR 06:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Until there are more confirmed facts, additional entries are mere speculation. Full protection period is only 48hrs, by which point we should hopefully have more reliable information to add. Anything else that is noticed and requires correction can be mentioned here and corrected.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 06:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I suppose you're right, The Australian, CNN, and the Associated Press are just tosh and unreliable. ~ UBeR 07:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stylized

Should actually read "styled" in the first main paragraph I think. You don't stylize yourself on someone but you can style yourself on someone. Xobxela 06:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Correction made.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 06:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Probable new categories

In light of recent events, I foresee the probable use of at least two new categories. "Category:Murderers of children" and "Category:Canadian murderers". While it is still "speculation", it will not be very long at all until he proven to be of murder and the murder of his child (he has already, obviously, been linked to these murders), there are no other suspects and it is unlikely his kid or his wife managed to kill this hulk of a man. So just be ready for these new categories here on the talk page rather than being shocked and appalled at seeing for the first time that your hero has been categorized as a child murderer on the article itself. JayKeaton 07:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Let not jump to conclusions, even if they are probable. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball or speculative in that manner. ~ UBeR 07:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Be that as it may, all signs to point to "yes", so if you are a fan of this Benoit guy, just be ready for it. By the time this page is unlocked, the police probably will have made a statement saying that yes he was the killer. So it is possible that it was a freak accident, maybe a microwave exploded and a block of kitchen knives nearby happen to fly at all of their necks, all signs are pointing towards what the police are already saying. It is a truly sad and disturbing turn of events, I wish it didn't have to be this way. But it is. JayKeaton 07:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please refrain from such conjecture. Accusing someone of murder is quite grave, not to mention rather insensitive considering that a family has been torn apart just recently. I think you should wait until the official police report is made before thinking that the case is already solved. AMReese 07:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The case is being treated as a homicide and this is not a biography of a living person, so accusations are not so much of an issue here. The police did say that they are also treating it as a murder-suicide. It is just the facts and that is the way the facts are pointing. And that will probably be a large part of the future of this article. Also in the history of his wrestling, especially leading up to the murders, the WWE says that he has pulled out of an event or two because of "personal reasons" and also "family issues". Chris pulling out because of personal reasons and family issues just before the death of himself and his family relates directly to the death of his family. Such conjecture is necessary based on the evidence so far and also to try and figure out what to expect from this article in the future and the near future JayKeaton 08:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also [[Category: Murder-suicide]] Nosleep1234 10:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Treating it as" is NOT the same as "our investigations have concluded and our official report states" - let's hold off on any such category changes until the fat lady sings. --Fredrick day 10:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree that, since this isn't a living person, the rigour applied to other current event-related people (like Willie Pickton, for instance) doesn't apply here, I personally don't think any categories that conclude a crime took place should be included until a formal statement has been made indicating that the deaths were murders/suicide. This event isn't going anywhere, no need to be hasty. Anchoress 15:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The house was in Fayetteville

All reports are saying that the home was in Fayetteville, Georgia, not Atlanta, Georgia, as is posted in the opening section, the Death section and Persondata. Atlanta Journal-Constitution, AP. --Zimbabweed 07:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Correction made.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 07:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here: http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=20003

It says they were in three seperate rooms. Remember they have stated no guns or knives were used. Benoit was in the weight room, so if he killed himself... it might be possible he dropped a weight on his throat, POSSIBLE. Otherwise we have no real evidence for any theory. The boy was in his room, the wife in the living room, their german shephers were running free in the yard.

That's all we know.

Wrestling Observer is not a reliable source for information of this nature. Give me an AP news report, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc... and we'll run with it. Until then it stays out of the article.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 07:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And who are you? Please sign your name next time. Also, I think if Benoit strangled himself with a weight, it wouldn't be so mysterious behind the cause of his death. Also, I think spouting up theories behind the man's death is unnecessary, not to mention as I said before, insensitive. I'd rather have the facts than a theory. AMReese 07:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Alright, I meant no disrespect, heck this guy was something of an idol of mine for years. The theory was based on the room they mentioned, perhaps it was me grasping at straws that he might've had an accident.... I of course did not know him personally, but it kinda hit me hard too. I'm just hoping their double murder and suicide theory is flawed.

~padlocke09

--Padlocke09 07:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)3:41 AM, 26, June 2007[reply]

A lot of news sources have said they were found in three separate rooms. Though that is actually pointing more towards foul play than an accident. Also if it was an accident, such as a poisonous gas leak, the police wouldn't be saying that they are treating it as homicide. JayKeaton 08:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not unusual in cases like this for it to be looked at as homicide. There's most likely something further that we all don't know about that adds the element of murder-suicide, or they would have likely stayed with homicide-only. But a number of deaths later ruled as accidental started as suspicion of foul play.Bsbfan4alex 11:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Could still be an accident, lots of families have died by accidental gas leaks. Dionyseus 09:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There are multiple sources stating already that it was a murder-suicide, including the WWE.com homepage. Legendotphoenix 10:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A POSSIBLE murder-suicide. That word is still very important. Autopsies have to be done, evidence has to be examined. Bsbfan4alex 11:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Crippler Crossface

In the Personal life, where it says Benoit's Crossface was borrowed from Dean Malenko, this is actually true because during the Benoit tribute last night, Malenko even said himself that he allowed Benoit to borrow it as he was trying to find a submission move he could use as a finisher. I'm not sure how that would be cited, but Malenko's words during the tribute does prove it. vDub 12:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Benoit also talked about it on the Hard Knocks DVD, to the best of my recollection. Garistotle 12:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

add category

Category:Cause of death disputed I would do it myself, but this is on super-lockdown at the minute. Lugnuts 12:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is technically no dispute over his cause of death; it's just officially unknown at this point. Jeff Silvers 13:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would say it's disputed even without the "no gunshot wounds" comment that's been flying around. IE - did he def. kill his wife, or did she kill him? Or did he committ suicide and if so, what method. Note, I'm not using this as a forum, I'm just explaining my rationale for the above category. The article has the text: the station reported that investigators believe that Benoit murdered his wife and son . Again, nothing concrete, and esp. in the light of the recent Bob Wolmer debarcle, then I wouldn't take it as read as this being 100% fact. Lugnuts 14:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Again, unknown is not the same as "disputed". Disputed means there are two or more sides, each of them proposing a different cause of death. That's not the case here. -- MisterHand 14:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't disputed. My cousin is a sergeant in the Phoenix Police Department, and he has often mentioned they can't present a series of events to the public as fact until an autopsy is performed. The Hybrid 15:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Additional confirmed information regarding text messages

According to WWE.com, Benoit sent what it described as "curious text messages" to several WWE wrestlers early Sunday morning, which prompted them to contact a WWE official, who then contacted Fayette County police. The article also mentions that WWE has additional information about the deaths and investigation that it has been asked to withhold for the time being. I think both bits are extremely relevant and need to be added to the article (especially considering they can be verified with a reliable source and are therefore not mere speculation). Jeff Silvers 13:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Request change of picture

To one of him with the World title, his greatest achievement. there are several pictures on WWE.com http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/superstars/chrisbenoit/photos1/4959102/

I especially like these three.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/superstars/chrisbenoit/photos1/4959102/19.jpg http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/superstars/chrisbenoit/photos1/4959102/10.jpg http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/superstars/chrisbenoit/photos1/4959102/17.jpg

Any of those would be great. What do you guys think? UnknownToaster 13:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia respects the copyrights of others. We do not use a copyrighted image when we have a freely licensed one. --BigDT 13:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
They would be great, but Wikipedia would never use a nonfree image over a free one. In all truth though, I was surprised when the image of Benoit winning the title was deleted so quickly. -- Scorpion0422 13:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well that is a shame.. we should try to find one that is freely licensed of him with the strap. Or at least a better picture as the one in sue now is not all that great. UnknownToaster 13:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Picture for Death section

Image:Benoit News.jpg Taken as the news broke on a local TV channel - "Benoit News.jpg"

And what does that have to do with this article? -- Scorpion0422 15:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What the hell do you think? Itsmeltc 16:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The user was proposing it for use in the article, so it does have something to do with it, but since it isn't a picture of the crime scene or anything I don't think that it should be used. Peace, The Hybrid 15:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kayfabe

Article (and talk) needs to have (kayfabe) references removed.

-Why? Kayfabe is a known wrestling lingo, and is neccessary in almost all wrestler articles. TehPhil 15:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Updates once protection is lifted - let's list them here

  • There's some new information in [1], including a statement that the deaths weren't gun-related, and that the WWE asked police to check on Benoit after a series of curious text messages from him early Sunday morning. Anchoress 15:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Incorrect footnote placement (see WP:FN) and incorrect use of hyphens and dashes (on date ranges and other places—see WP:DASH). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Publisher isn't identified on most of the sources in Notes, and many of them are to dead links; they can possibly be found in the internet archive, and all Notes should have publisher listed, as well as author and publication date when available. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the footnotes should be alright later or need to be relocated to another URL on the site (I haven't checked in deep into the site). Most of the "dead links" you are reporting, are coming from Online World of Wrestling, which is relaible and still available, but something is making the links not come in, so we need to investigate as to why. These links don't have publication dates and they are all written by Brad Dykens, the person in charge of the site. — Moe ε 16:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed his 5-star match from the finals of the 1994 Super J Cup isn't listed under acheivements. That should definitely be added, as I think it's his only 5 star match.AlexR42 17:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep an eye Out

Keep an eye out for a possible "2007 Benoit family tragedy" page or something along those lines. Usually in cases like this, a page like that will eventually come along. -- Scorpion0422 15:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's already begun: In memory of chris benoit -- Scorpion0422 15:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
and here 2007 benoit family tragedy ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 15:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's easy to find new pages if you keep checking here. The newest pages are always listed at the very end. -- Scorpion0422 15:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Theres no guarentee that the editor who creates these pages will link to the Chris benoit article. In fact, the last 3 or four that I saw that were deleted, didn't link to this article. — Moe ε 15:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ala eddie

is it true that chris was meant to win the ecw championship the night he died like eddie was meant to win the world championship. Should it be put in the artical? Mt 1994 15:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Only if you can find a reliable source that says it, which will likely never happen. -- Scorpion0422 15:46, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I highly doubt there are any reliable sources that can verify that WWE was going to give Benoit the title. — Moe ε 15:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That depends on whether one considers Dave Meltzer a reliable source. His newsletter contains this information; which is, by the way, a logical inference, considering that Benoit's replacement won the belt instead. Best wishes, Xoloz 17:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No gun/fire arms

I think an admin should add that there were no fire arms or guns used. There is a reliable source: the news. Although I can't find it on MyFoxAtlanta yet, I was just watching Fox 5 News (the news station here in Atlanta) at 12:00 PM, and it was the headline news. In it, they said that the authorities told them there were no gun shots or fire arms used. Can any admin add it? Xihix 16:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TMZ has learned more about the deaths of WWE wrestling superstar Chris Benoit, his wife and son -- and the information is extremely disturbing.

Several Atlanta-based law enforcement sources have told TMZ Benoit may have strangled his wife on Saturday, then smothered his son in his bed a day later. Investigators refuse to off icially comment, pending final confirmation by the coroner on the cause and time of the deaths.

One source told TMZ that Benoit was texting friends during Sunday's WWE "Vengeance" Pay-Per-View program -- possibly watching the show with his son, who may have been alive at the time.

According to sources, Benoit then hanged himself Monday in a weight room inside the family home.

A police investigation is ongoing.

Source? — Moe ε 16:38, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the TMZ article, but I think that we should wait for a more "legit" news source to say something. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 16:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, at least until the autopsy report is released. — Moe ε 16:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed on Fox Sports [2] Bytebear 16:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is a more 'legit' source (for the firearms angle), the CBC article I linked to above (link no. 7 in the 'updates' section). Anchoress 16:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fox 5 just said what TMZ said, sourcing TMZ too. Should that be reliable enough? Xihix 16:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

CNN newsflash on front page: A law enforcement official close to the investigation tells The Associated Press that pro wrestler Chris Benoit strangled his wife and smothered his son before hanging himself in his weight room. SirFozzie 16:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Bingo. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 17:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I say add it, making sure to note that it was an anonymous source. Noting that would at least give something to backtrack on in the slim chance something else be revealed to have happened Garistotle 17:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
AJC reports the same, as well as Chris and Nancy were undergoing a divorce. http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/fayette/stories/2007/06/25/0625benoit.html Socby19 17:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19[reply]
i guess the domestic violence items in the AJC article should be added at some point as well.harlock_jds 17:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FNC has stated that there will be a press conference at 3:00 this afternoon, their time of course. The Hybrid 17:09, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Who is FNC? Socby19 17:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19[reply]
Fox News Channel youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 17:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's on Yahoo's page as well.The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 17:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WWE SmackDown vs. Raw 2008 status

I added the following to the article:

Does that read okay? Socby19 17:24, 26 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19[reply]

I'd honestly leave that out until there is confirmation one way or the other he would be included in the game or not. At best the comment is just crystal ballingWildthing61476 17:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But he was confirmed, the day before WM 23. Socby19 17:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19[reply]
I misread that, sorry. If he's been confirmed, until anything to the contrary is said, leave it as confirmed. Wildthing61476 17:33, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They might keep him on there as an unlockable "WWE Legend". If I do recall correctly, WWE Attitude still had Owen Hart on there in addition to a tribute to him. Jgera5 17:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I hate to be crude, but Owen didn't kill anyone as Benoit has been allegedly accused of. Wildthing61476 17:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
yeah but Owen didn't kill his family... the WWE has been removing all references to Benoit from it's web page other than the initial story (taking down down tribute videos, removing him from dvd match listings and has discontinued his merch) so i really doubt he will be in any future WWE video game but we shouldn't add it till he is officially removedharlock_jds 17:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If it's true he did murder his wife and child, I wouldn't want to buy a game celebrating the guy... Whatever respect he earned during his career is out the window, assuming that it's all true... this guy's just like OJ Simpson now... If the game producers were wise, he'd best not be in the game... on the same note, Chris Benoit SHOULD NEVER be in the WWE Hall of Fame... murders and child killers DON'T get celebrated in our culture.

I think it should be left how it reads in the article. But a good past example (sort of) of questioning the game is Eddie Guererro. The '06 version was released in the US two days after Eddie died, and he was a regular character. Obviously, since the game has been pressed and shipped, they couldn't do anything. But, with '07, Eddie was a Legend but unlocked from the start. The reason I say sort of is because he killed his family, and Owen's and Eddie's death were 'accidents'. Socby19 17:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19[reply]

Death details

Media reports say he choked his wife and strangled his son before hanging himself [3] Angry Aspie 17:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's nothing but BS. I refuse to believe it unless I see proof on the Autopsy reports. King of America 17:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly, it appears to be true. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 17:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

[4] It's on CNN. As sad and disgusting as it sounds, he did kill his family and then himself... --Plasma Twa 2 17:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is that the only explanation the poilce have to explane what happend? ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 17:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
For the time being, yes. — Moe ε 17:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They theorize that it may have been a case of him going into an irrational rage due to steroid use. Steroids often cause people to go into fits of violent rage, apparently. He and his wife were also going trough a divorce at the time. He may have literally just snapped, and turned from the quiet, respectful Benoit that the WWE wrestlers knew and loved into a killer. The Hybrid 17:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


the divorce was from 2003 and had been dismissed a few months afterwards. the roid rage 'excuse' is pure speculation.harlock_jds 17:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
TMZ.com now citing marital strains-- physical altercations between Mr. and Mrs. Benoit.

Before her grisly death, Chris Benoit's wife once told a judge that she was, "intimidated by threats of violence" from her 220 lb. husband. In divorce papers filed in 2003, Nancy Benoit included a petition for protection from domestic abuse against Chris. In the papers, Nancy claimed that Benoit, "lost his temper and threatened to strike the petitioner and cause extensive damage to the home and personal belongings of the parties, including furniture." Nancy added that she was, "in reasonable fear for petitioner's own safety and that of the minor child." Three months later, Nancy filed to have the divorce papers and the restraining order dismissed. A short time later, a judge granted her wish.

As TMZ first reported, law enforcement sources tell TMZ they believe he strangled his wife on Saturday, smothered his son on Sunday and then hanged himself on Monday. Source: http://www.TMZ.com

CrimsonScholar 17:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I read somewhere earlier on that a plastic bag was involved in the suffocation? I will try and find a source. fadedx 17:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


If he murdered his family, we should put him in the category American murderers. -- alpiazza


god this just seems like a bad dream I feal so bad for the 7 year old child ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 17:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's too early to wonder why he did it. He could have accidentaly killed his wife, and then killed his son, we don't know. All we know at this point is he and his family are dead, and the evidence points to him as the killer. --Plasma Twa 2 17:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can't believe it. I'm just crying right now just reading this man. I just really can't believe it.BigBoi29 17:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)BigBoi29[reply]

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