User talk:Bgwhite

Welcome to my talk page I make plenty of errors - if you are here to complain about a tag or a warning, please assume good faith. If I have erred, don't hesitate to tell me, but being rude will get you nowhere. I will not tolerate any profanity or extreme rudeness. If used in any way, it will be erased and your message not read. Archives Bot archives discussions after 30 days of inactivity into the latest archive Archive 1 • Archive 2 • Archive 3 • Archive 4 • Archive 5 • Archive 6 • Archive 7 • Archive 8 • Archive 9 • Archive 10 • Archive 11 Nomination of George McConnell Davison for deletion A discussion is taking place as to whether the article George McConnell Davison is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted. The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/George McConnell Davison until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. use of <br> Thanks for having a look at List of Scheduled Monuments in Swansea. Contributions and interest are much appreciated. However I notice you changed all the <br /> tags to <br>. As I understand it, the latter is now deprecated (although still seems to work). Certainly Help:List#Line_breaks_inside_list_items says to use <br />, so I have converted them back. Please say if I have got that wrong, and I will sort it out. Thanks, RobinLeicester (talk) 13:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC) I arrived at the page due to a broken wikilink... ]] was missing from "[[Parc Cwm long cairn#Llethryd Tooth Cave|Llethrid Tooth Cave". :That help page is horrendous and is mentioning some out of date stuff. Wikimedia software recently dropped support for XHTML and is now HTML5 only. In XHTML, a <nowiki><br /> was the mandatory format. HTML5 has <br> as the default format with <br /> as optional. Bgwhite (talk) 15:43, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Useful info - it is very hard to keep track. The shorter one is also more intuitive. I will switch it back. RobinLeicester (talk) 23:42, 1 August 2013 (UTC) At the end of the day, the key takeaway from the HTML5 spec is that while XHTML mandated <br />, HTML5 makes it optional, such that <br />, <br/> or <br> are all valid. That does not, therefore, mean that we should change all occurrences to <br>. I further submit to you that some of Wikimedia's own tools cannot tolerate <br> – most notably Dot's Syntax Highlighter gadget, which fails miserably without the ending "/".  —Grollτech (talk) So, because someone's not official gadget doesn't support standards, we don't have to either? Sorry, but Dot needs to change their gadget, not the other way around. There are a ton of articles with <br>. <br /> was made optional instead of depreciated for one reason, XHTML. They wanted to give time for people to migrate from XHTML. and then <br /> will be depreciated. There is talk of having Wikipedia's Tidy to convert <br /> to someone's not official gadget, but with the way WMF works, who knows... They will have to have a fundraising drive to make a visual br editor. I'm not sure I'd characterize it as "someone's not official gadget", since it was either created by, or has been adopted by, the WMF – as is evidenced by the Mediawiki link provided above. Further, the option has been installed at least on the English Wikipedia and is offered as a gadget on every user's Preferences page. Further still, setting aside the WMF's toolset, I would agree with you if <br> was in fact a standard. At present, it is not a standard – it is a default. While the writing may indeed be on the wall for <br />, IMHO it would be presumptive to enforce <br> at this juncture. I tried looking briefly, but didn't find a discussion about Wikipedia Tidy... if you know where those might be lurking, I'd happily say the same there.  —Grollτech (talk) 23:41, 20 August 2013 (UTC) So I take it you plan to ignore me, and just plunge forward, changing every occurrence you find, without regard to a logical argument put before you?  —Grollτech (talk) 23:39, 21 August 2013 (UTC) I have no desire to talk to anyone who has a hissy fit if I don't respond right back within 24-hours. I haven't been on-line for the past 19 hours. Some people are actually busy and/or forget conversations that aren't at the end of the talk page. I haven't responded to the 2nd to last message either. Why are you even bothering with this with my logical argument put before you? If you are going to continue having a hissy fit, then leave. Otherwise... You have brought *no* reason why every br tag on Wikipedia has to be <br />. <br> *is* the standard for HTML5. <br /> is optional. Here is the latest draft with no mention of <br />. In fact, you can't get to where it says the optional arguments from that section. Same goes for whatwg's living document. It used to be you could get to the optional tag from the sections. They are deemphasizing it for a reason. But this doesn't mention Wikipedia. <br> tags are just as valid as <br />. You can't tell anyone to stop using either one or changing either one. I only change them when I'm at the page to edit something else. I'm not going around and just changing the br tag. Bgwhite (talk) 04:21, 22 August 2013 (UTC) de:User:TMg/autoFormatter Hello, Bgwhite. You have new messages at de:User talk:TMg/autoFormatter. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Interwiki talkback}} or {{Itb}} template. August summary #13 too greedy. It catches <math.h> inside source. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:24, 16 August 2013 (UTC) Fixed Bgwhite (talk) 07:21, 16 August 2013 (UTC) It turns you changed the rules this month. Last month we had a link from User:Magioladitis/AWB and CHECKWIKI to a list for each error marked as "Jul dump". then we fixed something we used to replace the tag with "07/2013". -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:28, 16 August 2013 (UTC) You were on vacation, so I thought it would be a good time for a coup. General Admiral Bgwhite is now in charge. I've been copying the errors over to the AWB_and_CHECKWIKI list as I start on them. Call me lazy. Bgwhite (talk) 06:38, 16 August 2013 (UTC) #16 had a lot of entries but in many of them the invisible character was introduced a lot time ago. I expect that next month we will have much less entries. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:24, 17 August 2013 (UTC) rev 9428 updates CheckWikiWithNumberListProvider to use Wmlabs instead of toolserver. -- Magioladitis (talk) 04:14, 18 August 2013 (UTC) I still need to refine Armenian, Farsi and Nepalese additions before releasing. -- Magioladitis (talk) 04:16, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Egads. Multi, multi lingual as well. However you do it, I need to do some translating on Checkwiki too. I'll bug you on that later. Bgwhite (talk) 07:09, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Translating is mainly done during Wikimania. I ask people who speak the language to do the job for me. :) -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Maybe you could mark as done all those with zero entries. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:04, 18 August 2013 (UTC) That would just be #22. It was the only one with zero entries. #87 had only false positives. Bgwhite (talk) 07:09, 18 August 2013 (UTC) #63 I can't remember if this was supposed to be added to AWB or not, but it is not catching cases of <small><sup>1</sub></small>. See 2011 Campeonato Brasileiro Série A. Bgwhite (talk) 07:09, 18 August 2013 (UTC) #37 Is is a bit out of hand? Maybe because of the redirects? -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:37, 18 August 2013 (UTC) No. Two things. Old checkwiki thought all the permutations of dash were ok. I removed this, but I've since added some of the dashes back in because of the amount of articles. Old checkwiki only looked at the first few characters. It now checks the first 5 characters. Bgwhite (talk) 07:45, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Limit Working with #37 revealed that the bot list is limited to the first 15,000 edits. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:49, 18 August 2013 (UTC) @Magioladitis: changed. Bgwhite (talk) 07:52, 18 August 2013 (UTC) I basically grab the lists from the wmlabs directly now? When do we mark an error as fixed for the month? -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:02, 18 August 2013 (UTC) I've been saving the lists in the usual spot and mark "done" on the checkwiki page. When I get done with a list, I mark as "bot done" or with the date. If you think it should be done different, go for it. I'm just winging it. Bgwhite (talk) 08:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC) OK. I'll follow the new trend. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:10, 18 August 2013 (UTC) #23 All 3 cases found in wmlabs seems to be properly closed. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:10, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Fixed. Bgwhite (talk) 08:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC) #20 I found no entries. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:39, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Ooops. I forgot to mark than one off. It had 3 entries. Bgwhite (talk) 08:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC) #14 Attention Profiling Mark-up Language is a false-positive. Command-line interface is a false-positive. It uses "source1". Pawn (scripting language) is a false-positive. It uses "sourcemod". XOMGL is a false-positive. It uses "sourcename" and some more similar tags. ALTO (XML) is a false-positive. It uses "sourceImageInformation". HTML5 video is a false-positive. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:57, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Tightening the logic can solve this problem. -- Magioladitis (talk) #84 84 now also catches if there are two identical section names in a row. There are quiet a few of the these. Bgwhite (talk) 05:31, 19 August 2013 (UTC) #36 It turns it has no entries. Please confirm. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC) It had one entry. rev 9461 fixes all(?) possible redirect errors covered by #36. -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:05, 1 September 2013 (UTC) #66 It turns it has no entries. Please confirm. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:21, 19 August 2013 (UTC) I do not remember. #37 I can't save August dump. "The text you have submitted is 3,786 kilobytes long, which is longer than the maximum of 2,000 kilobytes. It cannot be saved." فلسطين. قطر. ଡାକ ମୁନ୍‌ସି ଲିଙ୍ଗରାଜ ଏବଂ ଓଡ଼ିଶାରେ ଅଶୋକାଷ୍ଟମୀ ಠ ಠ are false positives unless you know how to treat them. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC) After checkwiki goes live, one of the next steps is to add a white list. Hopefully we won't have to see the above, plus the <source> false positives. #58 and #38 have over 50 false positives that you can't use a regex to weed out. Checkwiki and WPCleaner will use the same list. Bgwhite (talk) 06:21, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Btw, I use the spell out system for the Greek letters i.e. pi for π, alpha for a etc. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:25, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Hey, not everybody is Greek. You Greeks can sure be all high and mighty. It's almost as if you think Greece was the cradle of the Western World. Labs has Swedish as the default sort language, so atleast you aren't as crazy as them. Bgwhite (talk) 06:43, 20 August 2013 (UTC) AWB will add DEFAULTSORT only if a category exists. I added this manually. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:01, 20 August 2013 (UTC) #31 AutoEd seems to fix many cases of Error 31. Check Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#HTML_tables_cleanup.21_Help_needed.21.21. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2013 (UTC) @Magioladitis: Yes, I have used it in the past. It does have problems when style elements are set for each cell or row. Pywikipediabot has a much better tool called table2wiki.py. It handles complex cases. I've done ~30 pages with it and it converted them all correctly. Bgwhite (talk) 05:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC) #87 &sect2= is a valid situation when it comes into urls. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:56, 1 September 2013 (UTC) #87 has some serious false positive issues which are known. Bgwhite (talk) 05:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC) Translation pages of non-enwiki projects still not working. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:46, 3 September 2013 (UTC) @Magioladitis:. I know that frwiki and arwiki are working. Which was are you looking at? Bgwhite (talk) 07:50, 3 September 2013 (UTC) elwiki. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:01, 3 September 2013 (UTC) @Bgwhite: el:Βικιπαίδεια:WikiProject Check Wikipedia/Μετάφραση -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:08, 3 September 2013 (UTC) @Magioladitis: I should have rephrased it. What I meant was... Which languages that matter are you looking at? There is no translation page for elwiki at toolserver either. I'll add it right now. Bgwhite (talk) 08:13, 3 September 2013 (UTC) I'm goofing up on something. I'm too tired to think. I goto bed and work on it tomorrow. Bgwhite (talk) 08:22, 3 September 2013 (UTC) @Magioladitis: It is up. Bgwhite (talk) 17:35, 3 September 2013 (UTC) False positive of CHECKWIKI I have partially reverted an edit by BG19bot which simply ignored <syntaxhighlight lang="javascript"> and thus breaking the JavaScript markup... mabdul 09:04, 21 August 2013 (UTC) @Mabdul: Thank you for letting me know. This is actually and error on AWB's part. Checkwiki saw there were punctuation marks after references, which it correctly identified. Oh @Magioladitis:, what is AWB's status on editing in <syntaxhighlight> tags? FYI, one of the near term plans for checkwiki is to get a whitelist up and running. WPCleaner will share the same list. Hopefully this will reduce some of the problems. Bgwhite (talk) 09:21, 21 August 2013 (UTC) AWB treats syntaxhighlight tags exactly as code tags as far as I know. -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:40, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Guess not. @Mabdul: I've filed a bug report. Bgwhite (talk) 04:31, 22 August 2013 (UTC) BTW: nowiki tags in HTML reverted. [1] mabdul 09:38, 21 August 2013 (UTC) FixSyntax script I don't really do the changes with FixSyntax script. I only check if there are changes in the page after I apply FixSyntax. Then I apply general fixes as usual. I guess I(?) need to find time to create a much better script based on the idea of multiple scripts. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:42, 22 August 2013 (UTC) Tech News: 2013-34; Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available. New features The previous version of MediaWiki (1.22/wmf13) was added to test wikis and MediaWiki.org on August 15. It was enabled on non-Wikipedia sites on August 19, and on all Wikipedias on August 22. [2] The latest version of MediaWiki (1.22/wmf14) was added to test wikis and MediaWiki.org on August 22. It will be enabled on non-Wikipedia sites on August 26, and on all Wikipedias on August 29. [3] You can now use new styles of galleries. Please give feedback to User:Bawolff. [4] You can now visit a random page in a category, for example Special:RandomInCategory/Science. (25931) [5] You can now use the <wbr> HTML5 tag to say where a word can be cut. (52468) [6] Gadget authors: you can now use the wikipage.content hook, so that your scripts are re-run when a page is changed after the document-ready event (for example using Ajax). (30713) [7] Problems fixed There was a bug where file redirects didn't work when a file was renamed; it is now fixed. There is still an issue with purging, but it should be fixed soon. (52200) Maintenance reports provided by special pages will now all be updated on each wiki every six months. This will for example give you recent information on uncategorized pages, unused templates and most wanted pages (see details). There was a bug that caused false positives for anti-blanking edit filters; it is now fixed. 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[14] Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by Global message delivery • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 19:50, 25 August 2013 (UTC) Wiki Community Help There are a number of people, one of whom has vandalized the Stalking page, as of th 24th, -removing perfectly referenced, material, which was in use on another page word-for word This material was maliciously vandalized, removed - on the 24th of August, please check the log - We need some help ~please Dynomitedetails (talk) 23:07, 25 August 2013 (UTC) Re: bracket problem The square brackets you keep removing from the articles I edited represent philological indicators where text is reconstructed rather than directly translated. They are not typing errors. By removing them, you are degrading the text. Please could you reverse your edits so that the reconstructed portions can be identified? The convention is widely used in Assyriology and is described in, for example, Huehnergard's "Grammar of Akkadian", although it is a convention also generally followed in the transliteration and translation of all cuneiform languages. BigEars42 (talk) 00:45, 27 August 2013 (UTC) I fix over 5,000 pages a month that have bracket problems. You are going to need to be more specific. What pages are you talking about? I can figure out math, chemistry and Egyptology articles that have need for special brackets, but I'm not familiar with Assyriology. Bgwhite (talk) 00:51, 27 August 2013 (UTC) Eriba-Adad II was one, which I think I've successfully reverted, but I think you degraded others. I suggest you check the source of the "quote" before removing parts of it in the future. A quick glance of the source would have shown all the square brackets exactly in place as reproduced in the article. I have 293 articles edited and I need to go through them to see which you edited. BigEars42 (talk) 00:58, 27 August 2013 (UTC) @BigEars42:. I can't check the source of the quote with the tools I'm using. A program is constantly running that spots bracket problems. So the articles will show up on the list again, thus others and I will probably mess up again. Give me another message when I do, so I can learn spot the Assyrilogy article's non-problem with brackets. A white-list ability for the program will be added in the next few months to permanently stop my screwing up in this case. Bgwhite (talk) 05:22, 27 August 2013 (UTC) Misleading edit summary Thanks for the BG19bot's 08:28 UTC August 26 edit of The Spirit of the Age. No complaints about the helpful fixes made. But I would like to call your attention to your bot's misleading edit summary. It includes the words, "Punctuation goes before References." Yet punctuation placed after references is not one of the four errors it fixed. Only one had anything to do with references. This had me puzzled for a while. Not really that big a deal. But I'm wondering if it might be better to have your bot be a little less specific in its edit summaries, unless you can be sure that it is being accurate. --Alan W (talk) 04:36, 27 August 2013 (UTC) @Alan W: A list of problem articles is created every day around 0z. Also one is created from the monthly dump file. Between the time the list was created and the bot ran, you had already fixed the problem in one of your 20 something edits that day. I'm walking a tightrope that gets complaints from all sides. I run the bot quickly after the list gets created. This covers up vandalism edits that might not get discovered. I run the bot a long time later. Some errors do get fixed, but complaints happen that the bot shouldn't have visited in the first place because the problem was fixed. How long do you wait to run? 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, etc. If I don't state specifically why I visited the article, I get complaints. This especially happens when the the error had already been fixed and the bot "fixes" some minor things. A bot isn't supposed to make "minor fixes", so the bot owner gets yelled at boards. If I make it too specific, I get your talk message. Running a bot is alot like my wife. I get complaints, yelling, screaming, misery, mayhem and no sex. Well, atleast with the bot, I don't get a mother-in-law. :) Bgwhite (talk) 05:14, 27 August 2013 (UTC) I do some programming myself, so I totally understand what you are up against. As I said, not that big a deal. Better that your bot finds and fixes those maddeningly hard-to-detect problems like doubled spaces than otherwise. If there is occasionally an erroneous edit summary, I suppose I can live with it. One thing I can't understand, though, is why anyone should complain if your bot finds and fixes the minor errors. Those can be the hardest to detect. I'm a nitpicker about these things. I used to do proofreading for a living, among other things of that kind. Now I do Quality Assurance testing, and I'm more of a fanatic about detail than ever. And yet I still overlook some things. I'm pleased with myself that with the 11K of text I added to that article on Sunday, there were only those four tiny things I missed; yet there they were! So thank you again for the "minor fixes". That's what bots are particularly good at, and, again I am not complaining. At least not about BG19bot. Now if I should some day encounter one named "MotherInLawBot", well.... :-) --Alan W (talk) 05:52, 27 August 2013 (UTC) Wrong edit Hi Bgwhite. Something went wrong here with your bot. I tried to fix it. Regards, Trijnsteltalk 11:00, 27 August 2013 (UTC) (talk page stalker) It was due to an existing mess in the article. See what Visual Editor did to the article foot here and here. The article ended up with four sets of categories (some broken), and four succ boxes, three of which had the {{s-start}} substituted in error. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:56, 27 August 2013 (UTC) Oh right, I see. Thank you for finding this out and fixing it, Redrose64! Totally forgot that it might be something else. Trijnsteltalk 12:19, 30 August 2013 (UTC) Jimmy Lyggett Hello Bgwhite, my name is Ana Radecic. I am a film producer from Croatia. At the moment me and my team are developing/doing research about a life of an American black boxer Jimmy Lyggett Sr. I saw you edited/updated wikipedia details about Jimmy and we need a help with research. We would like to know if you know anything more about Jimmy's life (beside the wikipedia text), can you help us with some sources that we could use to go forward with our research. Thank you in advance Ana Radecic — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anaradecic (talk • contribs) 15:29, 28 August 2013 (UTC) Sorry, but I only edited the page to fix a problem with syntax. I don't follow boxing and would be of no help. Bgwhite (talk) 16:45, 28 August 2013 (UTC) All Saints' Church, Whitefield Just correcting some reflist errors and noticed that this bot had caused them in this article rather than tidying them up. It appears to have added a curly bracket in this edit rather than removing one. Not sure whether this is something that you can fix programmatically but thought I should flag it to you to take a look as this may not be the only example. -- gsyhiap (talk) 01:28, 29 August 2013 (UTC) Why? Hey BG, not that I have any objection to it, I'm just wondering... what was the point of this bot edit? LadyofShalott 02:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC) Because I missed talking to you an wanted to start up a conversation. The question is not the bot's edit, but why did the checkwiki program find a bracket problem in the first place. The ending ref that the bot changed around contained (rusty blackhaw}. There is a mismatched }. Bot fixes about half the problem articles and I manually go over the other half. Because of the place on the keyboard, { } gets used for [ ] and | alot. Bgwhite (talk) 05:33, 29 August 2013 (UTC) Well I see how I missed that. Amongst the other edits at the same time, I couldn't tell what the basic thing was that prompted it to touch the article at all. As far as talking to me, you need no excuse, start up a conversation anytime! :) LadyofShalott 01:26, 30 August 2013 (UTC) WP:REFPUNCT bot fixes Hi. Just wondering why this bot edit was described as "Punctuation goes before References". I do admit that putting punctuation after references is a bête noire of mine, but all I can see in the edit is text substitution for template variables. Am I missing something obvious, or is the bot just selecting a stock message? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 08:21, 29 August 2013 (UTC) @Ritchie333: See User talk:Bgwhite#Misleading edit summary Bgwhite (talk) 08:24, 29 August 2013 (UTC) Freddie Combs Back in October 2012 you PRODded this, and I deleted it. I have just undeleted it as a contested PROD in response to a request on my talk page from someone who wants to write about him. I will explain that it needs more for notability, and am letting you know in case you want to keep an eye on it and consider AfD. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 10:41, 30 August 2013 (UTC) WAFL season club details Hello, regarding the “Clubs” section of the 1986 WAFL season article, I noticed that you had filled in the gaps in the list of coaches and captains. I wonder if you would be of any help and assistance regarding the articles I have created on the WANFL/WAFL/Westar Rules seasons of 1977 to 1985 and 1994 to 1999? Even if you cannot, could you tell me the source of your information as it is tough to find on the web. I also have been seeking detailed information to improve the “Club honours” section of the East Perth Football Club article. luokehao, 22:13 (AEST), 1 September 2013 Sorry, I didn't do any edits on coaches or captains. You have the wrong person. You might want to contact editors Aussiesportlibrarian and LauraHale for help. Both have worked extensively in Australian sports. Bgwhite (talk) 05:28, 2 September 2013 (UTC) Walter White and Delenn: one degree of separation SPOILER ALERT! On tonight's episode of Breaking Bad, we learned that Jesse's friend (I'm not sure if it was Badger or Skinny Pete) talked about nothing but Babylon 5 for three hours. And I just discovered that Bryan Cranston had a small role on an episode of Babylon 5. Have you seen any of this season of Breaking Bad (online or elsewhere) yet? Or do you just wait to see it all later on Netflix? The sad countdown to the end continues: tonight was episode four of eight. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 07:34, 2 September 2013 (UTC) The video with Cranston. I read a synopsis of the episode and it has Vir assassinating the Emperor. I need to watch Babylon again, it has been a few years. I haven't seen any of the last four episodes of Breaking Bad yet. No cable. We will binge watch them just before the last episode. Bad has been one of the all-time best shows. Season 1 with the humor and Season 4 with Los Pollos Hermanos are my favourite. Don't know if you watched Orange Is the New Black or House of Cards on Netflix. Both of those were really good. Bgwhite (talk) 08:06, 2 September 2013 (UTC) Thanks for the link to the clip. I vaguely remember it. I don't have Netflix, so I haven't seen either of those shows. My list of things to eventually watch keeps growing: Downton Abbey, Dr. Who, Battlestar Galactica, probably some others, and now these two. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 09:41, 2 September 2013 (UTC) Talkback Hello, Bgwhite. You have new messages at LazyBastardGuy's talk page. Message added 08:03, 2 September 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. LazyBastardGuy 08:03, 2 September 2013 (UTC) A barnstar for you! The Barnstar of Good Humor For the little things you add in my user page :) Magioladitis (talk) 12:49, 2 September 2013 (UTC) DYK for Barun Biswas The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 5 September 2013 (UTC) Archived copy of the main page --Tito☸Dutta 01:20, 5 September 2013 (UTC) One of the greatest military commanders of all-time and Biswas were in the DYK along with Whitney Houston songs and hand lotion... Sigh. Bgwhite (talk) 05:13, 5 September 2013 (UTC) Varig I'd like to know why you keep insisting in taking the references out of the {{Reflist}} template? What's wrong with that? That's perfectly valid, and helps editing without having entire references in the editing area.--Jetstreamer Talk 22:39, 6 September 2013 (UTC) @Jetstreamer: For the very reason why you reverted my edit. You thought I removed a reference when in fact it was already there in the body of the article. It makes things hard when there are two different referencing styles. Per WP:CITEVAR, "Imposing one style on an article with incompatible citation styles (e.g., some of the citations in footnotes and others as parenthetical references): an improvement because it makes the formatting consistent." Bgwhite (talk) 22:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC) Sorry, but each article's formatting is continuously evolving. That's the spìrit of Wikipedia. I'll be moving each archived reference out of the editing area again. There's no reason for not doing that.--Jetstreamer Talk 22:53, 6 September 2013 (UTC) @Jetstreamer: All articles are continuously evolving and that is no excuse. There are 88 references with only 6 using {{Reflist=. Again see WP:CITEVAR. Prime evidence is you got messed up with the two styles. Go one way or the other, but if there are two styles with the vast majority being one style, I will do the same thing again. Bgwhite (talk) 23:08, 6 September 2013 (UTC) I'm not excusing from anything. I simply cannot archive all the references included in the articles I watch simultaneously.--Jetstreamer Talk 23:12, 6 September 2013 (UTC) I see you keep reverting me without any valid reason. You cannot revert anyone's edits just because you don't like their style. I will seek help from an admin.--Jetstreamer Talk 23:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC) It's actually you reverting me. I gave a reason, you did not. Not sure what archiving has to do with it. Nobody can watch all the references in all the articles. You didn't notice the edit that messed up the refs in the first place. I only arrived at the page because there was missing brackets. I run into 10-15 mess ups with {{Reflist= a day. Usually the huge big lettering at the bottom of the page is a dead give away. It's not a problem with {{Reflist=, but rather a problem of people using several different styles and getting them confused. Also, you don't respond until a revert happens. Try to change that next time. Bgwhite (talk) 23:22, 6 September 2013 (UTC) Which is the issue you see on that? It's a dummy process for the purpose or reading any article, but not for the editing one: having tons of references there is an editing nightmare. Do you at least concur with that? BTW, in your last edit you didn't just reverted back to a previous version, but removed the links to the archived urls I introduced.--Jetstreamer Talk 23:45, 6 September 2013 (UTC) (I've removed the {{admin-help}} template from here and from my talk page, as I consider we can settle our differences on the matter.)--Jetstreamer Talk 23:36, 6 September 2013 (UTC) I agree with you that having a tonne of references is an editing nightmare. There are some styles that favour what type of references being used, for example the harvb style for books. Otherwise, no style helps one way or the other. They are just different. The problem comes in when using two different styles. In this case having references in two different spots makes thing difficult. Having 82 references in the body of the article and the rest in the ref section does confuse people. I see it every day. It confused you and it has confused me in the past. You are trying to keep archived refs in the ref section. A problem is when somebody else comes along to edit the page. Do they add a ref in the ref section or the body? They don't know only archived refs go into the ref section. I understand wanting to make things simple for you. We all do that to varying degrees. However, you have to assume other people will edit the article and you have to assume you won't be editing Wikipedia forever. If I'm here in 10 years, please shoot me. Bgwhite (talk) 23:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC) Great we are in agreement with something. And you're definitely right in your last two sentences. I will only reinstate the last archived references, keeping them in the original format. And in continuing with the archiving process, I will keep all of them inline. Deal?--Jetstreamer Talk 23:54, 6 September 2013 (UTC) We are in agreement that you should shoot me if I'm still here in 10 years? Only one problem with that. My wife will have killed me off long before then. I'd say her constant nagging and shopping will cause a heart attack or stroke. Yes, I'm fine if you keep all refs inline. You are better than me with archiving. I don't do it that often. Bgwhite (talk) 00:21, 7 September 2013 (UTC) Cool. I went ahead. Seems we have settled our differences.--Jetstreamer Talk 00:23, 7 September 2013 (UTC) A barnstar for you! The Civility Barnstar I award you this barnstar for not losing your temper when discussing with a fool like me.Jetstreamer Talk 00:40, 7 September 2013 (UTC) Perfect Storm: Disasters That Changed The World I was just wondering why you deleted my page on this program because it was on the history channel and currently on the channel Yesterday, here in the UK. D Eaketts (talk) 15:57, 7 September 2013 (UTC) (talk page stalker) Here's the deletion log. It states "G12: Unambiguous copyright infringement: http://www.ketchuptv.org/perfect-storms.html" - I've compared that page with the page that you created, and apart from the infobox, the table and the opening sentence, it's almost an exact copy. Please observe the notice displayed above the editing window. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:36, 7 September 2013 (UTC) I could re-do the page but make it so it Wiki guidelines and not like ketchuptv's version D Eaketts (talk) 20:57, 7 September 2013 (UTC) @D Eaketts: I copied the infobox and table into User:D_Eaketts/sandbox to save you some time as you rework the article. A sandbox is a good place to create the article without being bothered. When the article is ready, just copy it over to its final spot. Bgwhite (talk) 22:46, 8 September 2013 (UTC) Thanks will re-do the article and will save me some time Bgwhite D Eaketts (talk) 09:33, 9 September 2013 (UTC) September celebration: targeting the moon? We are already racing against time. Can you please copyedit one/two article(s) as a part of— Swami Vivekananda's 150th birth anniversary DYK celebration September 2013 — Date requests This is a part of Swami Vivekananda's 150th birth anniversary celebration initiatives 2013 is being celebrated as the 150th birth anniversary of Swami Vivekananda. In September 1893 he delivered a series of lectures in the Parliament of the World's Religions in Chicago. Six of those lectures are mainly referred and recorded in the Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda. We are attempting to feature DYKs on the dates on which Vivekananda delivered his speeches in Chicago. Please note Please assume good faith and help if you can. If "DYK featured?" column indicates "no", that means, the date is still free. Please do not select more than 1 DYK per day (even if you see more than 1 DYK are nominated per day). Do not comment on this template or the planned DYK celebration in the DYK nomination page. Post your comments here. Task completed: 100% complete DYK promoter/Admin, please note If you feel a "passed" DYK nomination is not ready to be promoted or a hook needs to be pulled down from queue, please replace it with the immediate next DYK hook or select one from the reserved DYKs. Date Article DYK nomination Reviewed Passed DYK featured? 11 September Swami Vivekananda (film) Template:Did you know nominations/Swami Vivekananda (film) Done by Crisco Yes Yes 15 September Sister Christine Template:Did you know nominations/Sister Christine Done by Piotrus, Overturned by BlueMoonset, redone by Crisco Yes Yes 19 September Vedanta Society of New York Template:Did you know nominations/Vedanta Society of New York Done by Bonkers The Clown Yes Yes 20 September Swami Vivekananda statue (Golpark, Kolkata) Template:Did you know nominations/Swami Vivekananda statue (Golpark, Kolkata) Done by Crisco Yes Yes 26 September Josephine MacLeod Template:Did you know nominations/Josephine MacLeod Done by Dharmadhyaksha, BlueMoonset had a question, re-reviewed by BlueMoonset Yes Yes 27 September Arise, awake, and stop not till the goal is reached Template:Did you know nominations/Arise, awake, and stop not till the goal is reached Done by Bonkers The Clown Yes Yes Reserved DYKs Date Article DYK nomination Reviewed Passed DYK featured? N.A. Nachuk Tahate Shyama Template:Did you know nominations/Nachuk Tahate Shyama Done by Hmlarson Yes N.A. Religion not the crying need of India Template:Did you know nominations/Religion not the crying need of India Done by 99of9 Yes N.A. Bartaman Bharat Template:Did you know nominations/Bartaman Bharat Done by TParis Yes N.A. User:Titodutta/Buddhism, the Fulfilment of Hinduism (85% complete) N.A Atmano mokshartham jagat hitaya cha Template:Did you know nominations/Atmano mokshartham jagat hitaya cha N.A User:Titodutta/Vedanta Society of Northern California (13% complete) N.A. User:Titodutta/Kanyakumari resolve of 1892 (30% complete) N.A. User:Titodutta/Bahujana hitaya bahujana sukhaya cha (5% complete) The immediate need is Sister Christine— only copyedit, nothing else. Thank you. --Tito☸Dutta 11:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC) @Titodutta: The sentence, "he continued his correspondence urging her to take care of her health and become plump." needs some background. "plump" is a weird thing to say (atleast in this day). Was she sick? Bgwhite (talk) 22:35, 8 September 2013 (UTC) Hello Bgwhite, thank you very much for copyediting the article. I don't know if Sister was ill at that time. I worked on the first part of her life, @Nvvchar: worked on the second part. But, remove all problematic portions without hesitation. The article fails to catch the essence of Sister's life (and that's not possible to do in five/seven days — Sister remained unmarried to serve India and Vivekananda — she was a too good... and polite natured person too... Sister was too good). I'll most probably ask you to copyedit a short article in this September session, so, if the copyediting work is done please leave the article as it is, I'll solve other issues including her illness, letters, etc. related discussion --Tito☸Dutta 01:02, 9 September 2013 (UTC) Don't touch Andrew Mikhail's article You made a mess of our article and your edits have been undone/deleted. You are not the wiki police nor do you own wiki. We are aware anyone can edit. And that's fine, it's wiki. Any edits, like yours that were horribly full of errors and made a mess of the article, will continue to be undone and the article will return to how Andrew has requested it. Please don't waste our time or yours. Thanks! Creator of Andrew Mikhail's article Can you please spend only 2 minutes? ... the Sister Christine article is still bish bnao jole (trying to find shore). Sister once told— Our love for India came to birth, I think, when we first heard him (Swami Vivekananda) say the word, "India", in that marvellous voice of his. It seems incredible that so much could have been put into one small word of five letters. There was love, passion, pride, longing, adoration, tragedy, chivalry, heimweh, and again love. Whole volumes could not have produced such a feeling in others. It had the magic power of creating love in those who heard it. Even after, India became the land of heart's desire. Everything concerning her became if interest— became living— her people, her history, architecture, her manners and customs, her rivers, mountains, plains, her culture, her great spiritual concepts, her scriptures. And so culture, her great spiritual concepts, her scriptures. And so began a new life, a life of study, of meditation. The centre of interest was shifted. Now, I have prepared this ALT hookbr. ... according to Sister Christine (pictured) her love for India came to birth, when she first heard Swami Vivekananda uttering the word "India" in his marvellous voice? I feel I am missing the life of the quote, specially the part "There was love, passion, pride, longing, adoration, tragedy, chivalry, heimweh, and again love", Can you spend to minutes and suggest a rewrite of the hook making it more compact, more meaningful, more informative? --Tito☸Dutta 01:46, 12 September 2013 (UTC) I've asked Mandarax for help as he is the professional at this. Besides, you turned down my hook of her needing to be plump.  :). First time I recall seeing the word heimweh. A hook combining the two following sentences would be good. I think the sentences are the strongest in the paragraph... "It had the magic power of creating love in those who heard it. Even after, India became the land of heart's desire." Bgwhite (talk) 02:37, 12 September 2013 (UTC) The nomination is at Template:Did you know nominations/Sister Christine. Mandarx was already there to fix the DYK pic. Heimweh is mainly a German word means "homesickness" (Sister was a German by birth). --Tito☸Dutta 02:59, 12 September 2013 (UTC) Well, I have a suggestion in an entirely different direction. I don't want to unnecessarily complicate the nomination in case you don't like my suggestion, so I'm just listing it here rather than on the nomination page. If you do like it, feel free to copy it over there. (And if so, the article will need an additional inline citation immediately after the hook fact.) ... that Indian Hindu monk Swami Vivekananda asked Sister Christine's (pictured) permission to read her mind so he could ascertain if she was mentally prepared for initiation? In any case, good luck with this and the rest of your Vivekananda project. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 09:13, 12 September 2013 (UTC) Thank you for reading the whole article and suggesting a wonderful hook, but, I am confused here .... Details of my confusion a) Vivekananda not only asked Christine's permission, but he reportedly read her mind too. b) The suggested hook mentions "thought reading" which is a scientifically unacknowledged act. Vivekananda reported exhibited his supernatural activities several times such as— Emma Calvé, the French operatic soprano, told, when she met Vivekananda... "then in a quite voice, untroubled and aloof, this man, who did not even know my name, talked to me of my secret problems and anxieties. He spoke of things that I thought were unknown even to my nearest friends" Ref: Vivekananda, Swami (1996). My India : the India eternal (1st ed. ed.). Calcutta: Ramakrishna Mission Institute of Culture. p. 177. ISBN 81-85843-51-1. {{cite book}}: |edition= has extra text (help) When Vivekananda met American industrialist John D. Rockefeller.... "as with Calve, Swamiji told Rockfeller much about his past that was not known to anyone but himself." Ref: Same book, p=178 Vivekananda reportedly had the power to read thinks very very fast. "He would simply turn over the pages of a book quite hurriedly from beginning to the end, and that was all — the book had been read.". ref He reportedly read and memorized 11 volumes of Encyclopædia Britannica in just few hours. But, Vivekananda himself always discouraged to highlight these supernatural activities (I am not comparing, but Gautama Buddha and and most probably Jesus also discouraged highlighting their supernatural abilities). For example, in an interview published in The Memphis Commercial on 15 January 1894, he told— "What have those things to do with religion?" he asked. "Do they make a man purer? The Satan of your Bible is powerful, but differs from God in not being pure." So I am confused here. If you think it is okay, we can go ahead with your suggested hook. Else, if you suggest a compact hook from the Sister's quote on "India" above, that will be very helpful. --Tito☸Dutta 10:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC) The hook I suggested merely reports on his asking to read her mind. I wouldn't want a hook which says or implies that he actually read it. But if he discouraged the highlighting of such things, you may not want to use that on the Main Page. For the hook you listed above, I would just put some parts in quotation marks: ... that, according to Sister Christine (pictured), her "love for India came to birth" when she first heard Swami Vivekananda uttering the word "India" in his "marvellous voice"? As for incorporating another part of the quote.... The following, at about 194 characters excluding (pictured) which doesn't count, isn't exactly a "compact hook", but it's still under the limit: ... that Sister Christine (pictured) said that Swami Vivekananda's mere uttering of the word "India" stirred emotions of "love, passion, pride, longing, adoration, tragedy, chivalry, heimweh, and again love"? MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC) Ooops, I did not notice this post in watchlist, thought you have not replied here and went forward with the above mentioned hook (since we are targeting 15 Sept's DYK slot). I am seeing if @Crisco 1492: is online and review this alt hook shortly. --Tito☸Dutta 04:49, 13 September 2013 (UTC) DYK for Sister Christine The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 15 September 2013 (UTC) Thank you. Archive copy of the main page --Tito☸Dutta 05:18, 15 September 2013 (UTC) Reply Yeah, I'm just noticing that. Sorry. It was moved to the wrong article name and I didn't exactly know how to move it back. Rusted AutoParts 08:33, 16 September 2013 (UTC) Stockholm University Hi! i had problems with updating the infobox because the "university inbox"-template wouldn't let me edit. I was only updating the information so that the numbers would be more current and not old or misguiding. But now since you "restored" the infobox to its old out-of-date state, i have to ask why you couldnt have let the numbers remain updated at least? Best regards!