User talk:Amakuru

Saint-Denis

Hi Amakuru,

Now that the aricle's been moved, you might want to go through the 350 links to Saint-Denis and verify that they should rd to Saint-Denis, Seine-Saint-Denis. (We can't very well automate it, as many may have been at the wrong link to begin with.) — kwami (talk) 23:02, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Kwamikagami, thanks for the heads up, I'll do that later today. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 06:40, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Rwanda FAR

Hi Amakuru. Just a heads-up that I think I'll have to nominate Rwanda for a featured article review soon. It's been months since I originally posted my concerns about the article, and there hasn't been much progress in addressing them. Hopefully a FAR will prompt some progress and the article will emerge stronger from the review. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:20, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I have nominated Rwanda for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:41, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up on this, Cordless Larry. As we discussed, I am going to address the issues with the health and education sections. I'll try and fit this in over the coming weekend and the one after. I believe you already did some work on the sport section. Was there anything else you felt needed work? Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 13:44, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Great, thanks Amakuru. I'm confident that the FA status can be retained with a little bit of work to the article. I'll also be trying to help out, but I thought it was best to put this through the review process so that we subject the article to some scrutiny and get wider input because it only seems to be the two of us who are interested in updating it at present. There are a few issues I've identified in the review nomination, but it would benefit from close reading to identify any other dated material. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:46, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

PS: If you know of anyone else I can notify about this, please do let me know. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:49, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi @Cordless Larry: Lemurbaby and BanyanTree are two that I've worked with on Rwanda articles in the past. They may be able offer some thoughts on this. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 15:07, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll notify those two. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:11, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

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Rwandan Genocide

It's not that Rwandan Genocide is considered "not noteworthy". It's just that it was rotated out for this year. We had a 20-year anniversary event included and for chronological diversity, Rwanda got moved out. It will make it back in there in the future. Thanks. —howcheng {chat} 16:07, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Pit River Bridge

The article Pit River Bridge has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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• Apologies, Amakuru. Never mind. I think I found some things to cite. Cheers. Zzyzx11 (talk) 00:13, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

  @Zzyzx11: Oh, thanks. That's great!  — Amakuru (talk) 17:04, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

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Scotland flags

Hi. Regarding your reversion at 1998 FIFA World Cup - we sort of discussed the issue at User talk:Illegitimate Barrister#Scotland flags, and I edited a lot more articles besides that one (though by no means all of them) to replace the default flag with the "1542" variant. Do you mean with your edit summary that it was the current colour that was the most common one even before its officialization in 2003? And do you have any idea for how long it has been so? --Theurgist (talk) 03:20, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

@Theurgist: OK, I can't profess to be an expert in this matter :) But from what I can tell, from reading the article at [1], the 2003 officialization was simply that, not an active change of colour, but simply a standardising something that had been already the most common variant for many years previously. Looking at this image of flag bearers at the 1999 Holyrood opening ceremony, the blue looks quite similar to the pantone shade used now, not that "1542" very light sky blue variant. I'd also be interested to know if the sky blue flag was in any sense the common or official one in 1542, come to that. According to Flag of Scotland, that's just the earliest date that the Saltire is recorded in historical documents, and even that version, seen here seems to be a darker shade than the 1542 version in our template (although it's very low res so hard to tell exactly!). Personally I would prefer to standardise all usages in history on the present flag rather than have an arbitrary jump in colour in 2003, when that's not apparently what happened in history. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 07:12, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I think that makes sense. --Theurgist (talk) 00:24, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

"Felix Crapper" redirect

Hi Amakuru, I was about to nominate Felix Crapper for deletion when I noticed you created it. There's no one by that name mentioned at Thomas Crapper, where it redirects, nor was there when you created it back in 2006. I'm not getting anything in Google for this name either. Do you remember why you created it? --BDD (talk) 15:45, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi BDD, I think I'd heard people use the term "Felix Crapper" in a similar sense to "Thomas Crapper", as a joke name for the toilet. But that was probably just my imagination, and it's not backed up by sources anyway, so please feel free to delete the redirect. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 16:12, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

 Done Thanks! --BDD (talk) 16:15, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Shipwreck Kelly (American football)

I started another RM; I invite you to improve consensus. --George Ho (talk) 05:12, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

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Youth in Rwanda page

Muraho!

I am an American student in Des Moines, Iowa who has created a Wikipedia page as a part of a WikiEd class. I spent my spring semester of 2015 in Kigali with the School for International Training (SIT) studying Post-Genocide Restoration and Peacebuilding. I have just created a Youth in Rwanda page and it would be great if you could read it and provide feedback on its Talk page. Murakoze. GrebniewNeb (talk) 01:19, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

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Hours

As WP:Mrv requires me to discuss this first with you, I want to ask you if you can clarify some questions. First, which comment(s) listed at Hours' RM led you to decide to move the page to Hours (David Bowie album) rather than Hours... or Hours... (David Bowie album)? Second question would be, how did you reach such conclusion? Third, do you know the differences between consensus and polling? Fourth, do you know what does "styling" means in Wikipedia's guidelines; and fifth, are you aware of WP:RMNAC? © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 22:41, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

@Tbhotch: - thanks for your comment here; happy to answer your questions as best I can.

• On (1) and (2) I wouldn't say there was any one comment that made me reach the decision, rather the weight of responders making similar comments, that the ... was not sufficient disambiguation from a recognizability point of view. I believe I explained my reasoning in the close summary. If you need examples, a couple of comments that summed up this position were: The average reader is not going to recognize "..." as meaning an album by David Bowie. and in fact I would claim it is only recognisable to the reader when the reader knows more about the subject than WP.
• (3) Yes, indeed I do. I have been on Wikipedia for quite some time, so I am reasonably familiar with how this works. In this case, there was a consensus to move, that much was clear. Given that consensus, it came down to picking which target to move to. As you know, we don't simply poll, because votes may be made that are not grounded in policy, or are based on erroneous assumptions. But in this case, honestly, there were valid policy arguments made for both titles. So rather than deciding which option I "prefer" and casting a supervote, I assessed which option had the most support, (which was clearly "Hours (David Bowie album)"), and went for that. RM discussions are not a vote, but that doesn't mean it's not relevant that six people support something rather than one.
• (4) As I interpreted it, styling is something covered by MOS:TM, for example "Macy*s" rather than Macy's. Plenty of responders in the RM discussion felt that the ... on the end of the Bowie album title falls into this category.
• (5) I included the RMNAC template in my close. Do you think an admin would have closed this differently? Obviously you preferred a different option, so you are objecting to the close, but was it honestly the wrong one? I don't think me being an admin or not has too much bearing on that. I have participated and closed plenty of RM discussions, although obviously we are all learning as we go along as well. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 23:47, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for answering to the questions. Now I have some concerns, and I will begin with the last answer. You asked "Do you think an admin would have closed this differently?", and I think it does, as "no consensus". Although it is clear no one is supporting the previous title ('Hours...'), there was no clear consensus to where it should had to be moved. Although recognizability is cited, note that "Recognizability [...] should be seen as goal, not as rule." as cited at WP:CRITERIA. The ellipsis seems to be recognizable by the readers as per the view stats in this case. Now with the fourth answer. Styling is covered by MOS:TM, but MOS:TM is exclusive of trademarked titles, as noted here. The main difference between a stylized title like "Toys Я Us" with "Hours..." is the usage in reliable sources (29,000 vs 24,000,000; or using Macy's as you cited it: less than 4 million --as there is amixed usage of * and '-- vs 47 million), that's what MOS:TM is talking about--usage of sources vs. official naming. In other example have you ever wondered why "iPod" is more valid than "Ipod" here? "iPod" is a trademarked style and it is against " that most closely resembles standard English, regardless of the preference of the trademark owner", but it is used by almost all sources, ergo "iPod" is the title regardless MOSTM's guides. Now clarified this, as I noted at Hours' RM, more than the half of sources use the ellipsis, and as such, like with iPod, it is not a style, it is a valid title that falls under the "Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject" clause. Also note that if ellipses were styling, titles like "I Am... (Nas album)", "...Baby One More Time (song)" or "Me. I Am Mariah... The Elusive Chanteuse" wouldn't have punctuation in them. Or titles like Sunn O))) or Deadmau5 would be considered as incorrect solely per MOS:TM. I think that as you tried to do good closing it, but a the same time you should have seen the whole picture, and not what "six people support[ed]", in which three of them had already commented before I gave major evidence, and one of them incorrecly saying "neither of these titles follows MOS or WP:NCM". © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 00:41, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

I think usually when there is clear consensus to move away from an existing title, but not so clear consensus which title is preferred, it is still productive to figure out which of the alternatives has more weight behind it and use that. Like I say, the recognizability argument for this title, and your argument about more than 50% of sources saying something, could both be considered valid reasons, and hence rather than applying a supervote, I considered how many people supported one versus the other. Closing the debate as "no consensus", and therefore not moving the article, doesn't help to move things forward at all. At least now there's a title that some people want, and the argument is between two possible titles, not three - you could start a new RM if you wanted, to see if there's support for moving to "Hours..." or if there's consensus to retain this title. So personally I disagree with you that an admin would have closed as no consensus. You say I didn't see the whole picture, but at the end of the day not everyone in the debate saw things the same way as you did. And you can't really compare this to iPad since clearly a lot of sources do use Hours, or a mixture of the two. The current title is not wrong in any way, and calling it "Hours" is certainly not highly unusual, in the way that saying "IPad" or "Ipad" would be. Thanks again  — Amakuru (talk) 02:27, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

I--in fact no one--can open a new RM immediately as a RM has been closed (for a move to the same place), it is easily seen as disruptive. I will take this instead to MRV. As I noted above I am obligated to discuss this first with the closer. As obligated as well, here is the notification. I'm notifying you before opening it, but eventually the section will be there.

An editor has asked for a Move review of Hours (David Bowie album). Because you closed the move discussion for this page, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 03:10, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

PAW Patrol

Hello, I noticed that you renamed the PAW Patrol article so that "PAW" is written as "Paw." However, this series' title is not simply a stylization; according to trademarks filed by Spin Master (you can view these here), "PAW" is an acronym standing for "Pups At Work" and "Protect And Wag." The title has also been trademarked with periods (as "P.A.W. Patrol") to reflect how it is an acronym and not simply stylized in all capitals. Please consider changing the article's title back, as keeping "Paw" lowercase is incorrect. Thank you! --Squiddaddy (talk) 20:56, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

@Squiddaddy: thanks for your comment. As you regard this as controversial, I have reverted my move of this page, so it is back at PAW Patrol. However, I have now opened a move request at Talk:PAW Patrol, because I still feel that "Paw Patrol" is the correct title, for reasons I have explained there. You may wish to contribute to that debate on that page. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 11:07, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Thomas Taylor

Hello, on these page moves. It's very unusual to use years of birth and death to disambiguate. Typically we would use (..., born xxx). See WP:NCPDAB.

But to be honest, I would find it more natural to disambiguate them as (priest) and (archbishop). Given the difference in hierarchy, it would be clear which is which. --Midas02 (talk) 03:05, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Ray Tomlinson

Hey, We created Ray Tomlinson article for Turkish Wikipedia. You should add Turkish(Türkçe) langue for this article.

Link: Ray Tomlimson Türkçe --Kingbjelica (talk) 11:46, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

TH Köln - University of Applied Sciences

Hi Amaruku,

concerning your answer to my request to remove the TH Köln-Page: Gernerally I agree, but it was just on September 1, 2015, that Cologne University of Applied Sciences changed its name to Technische Hochschule Köln – abbreviated TH Köln. The official english name ist "TH Köln - University of Applied Sciences", there was not yet the possibility to create a "common name" like "technical university of cologne" in english. Furthermore, in Germany there are different types of universities: common universities and universities of applied sciences. TH Köln - University of Applied Sciences ist not a common university, therefore it is completely wrong to talk about a "technical university". The name "technical university of cologne" is misleading, please change the uncommon name to the official name and move the page to the new name. Further information: https://www.th-koeln.de/en/th-koeln--new-name-specific-ambitions_29584.php, https://www.th-koeln.de/en/th-koeln_27191.php

Thanks, Fhk-online — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fhk-online (talk • contribs) 10:47, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Hello

Hey, I created astronaut Scott Kelly article for Turkish Wikipedia. I dont know "how I add langue for article" Please add Turkish Scott Kelly artcicle for Scott Kelly (astronaut) page. Thanks bro.

Turkish article: Kelly My TR account: Kingbjelica — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingbjelica (talk • contribs) --Kingbjelica (talk) 18:25, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

RFC on Real Robot title

Hi. Since you recently closed a move discussion for Real Robot, I’m just notifying you of an RFC on that title. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 21:42, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Millennium numbers

Hello. You closed the discussion on moving the pages on the first through ninth millennia. Does it make no difference that the reliable sources are virtually unanimous, that numbers of centuries and millennia (and all ordinal numbers) under ten should be written in words? See the examples I posted here. This is a very common, practically universal, convention in publishing and academic writing, and it should be followed here, even if a vocal crowd on Wikipedia disagree. I realize that a majority of commenters opposed the proposal, and that further discussion on that page is likely to be fruitless; but I want to go about this the right way, which, as I understand it, requires me to bring the matter up with you on your talk page, before I go any farther. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 16:22, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Jdcrutch, and thanks for your message here. I've reviewed the request, and I've found fault with one aspect of my close - I mentioned WP:COMMONNAME, but I now realise that "first millennium" is in fact more common than "1st millennium". However, the most powerful argument presented by those opposing was WP:CONSISTENCY, which is one of the key criteria for picking article titles and part of Wikipedia policy. Clearly therefore the COMMONNAME and CONSISTENCY policies are in conflict with each other here, but as a clear majority of respondents were arguing for the CONSISTENCY rule to be applied, and certainly consistency is a valid argument, I could not have reasonably closed this any other way, and I don't see a need for me to re-open the discussion. Note that this consistency applies to article *titles* which is something the convention in publishing and academic writing wouldn't necessarily deal with. Calling the article "1st millennium" as a title does not mean we shouldn't refer to it in "first millennium" in prose. That's a different question.

I'm curious to know what you mean by "before I go any farther"... of course you're welcome to discuss and get feedback on this any way you want, but I would beware of WP:FORUMSHOPPING this issue. There's already an RfC open at Talk:1st century, which hasn't yet closed (and may yet cause a re-evaluation of the move request at 1st millennium depending how it turns out), so are you planning to take the discussion to yet another forum? Thanks again  — Amakuru (talk) 17:51, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks for your quick and friendly reply. I guess I understand your reliance on CONSISTENCY, though what may be consistent on Wikipedia is not necessarily consistent in the wider world of formal writing. At any rate, consistent error is still error, and, according to virtually all reliable sources, the majority in the millennium-number controversy are in error. If people on Wikipedia consistently wrote "Febuary" for "February", they'd still be wrong. I might also note that a title beginning with a numeral seems to be subject to the same objection as a sentence that begins with a numeral, which the MOS proscribes. Still, I don't guess any of this is a basis for reopening the discussion. I wasn't persuading anybody there, anyway.

As for going any farther, I was thinking of posting a query at the Village Pump as to what, if anything, to do next. I didn't initiate either the move request or the RfC (though they were initiated in response to me), but I plan on waiting for them to play themselves out (as the move request seems to have done) before I do anything else.

Thanks again for your cordial response. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 18:30, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

NCGEO

Why was the MOS:COMMA bit removed? We still want people not to write "was born in Bloomington, Indiana and moved to"; it's ungrammatical, but people keep doing it, and will do it a whole lot more.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  20:36, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

@SMcCandlish: Yes, fair enough, apologies for that. Although the exact sentence you mention would be unlikely to appear in an article title (which presumably us what the naming convention page is about) :) I'll add something back into that page shortly on MOS:COMMA for Youngstown, Ohio, cheez-its incident or whatever, since the RFCs expressly did not cover that case. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 21:01, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, sure, I was just throwing in a random example. I was on my way out the door, pretty much and trying to finish up 5 windows stuff. :-) Anyway, thanks for putting it back when you get to it.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:13, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

@SMcCandlish: Done!  — Amakuru (talk) 23:06, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Chronic Condition Page

Hey Amakuru! I wanted to get more of an idea why you decide to move the pages chronic disease into one page as chronic condition. I find this quite odd since chronic condition isn't a term used as much as chronic disease. I feel these two should either remain separate or should be renamed to chronic disease as for those who search for topics about chronic "conditions" would probably use the more appropriate/common term: chronic disease. Thank you! Gurshawnstuteja (talk) 17:51, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Gurshawnstuteja:, thanks for your message. I closed that request at "move" because there was no opposition to the request (a year ago), and it seemed reasonable, according to our policies. The previous title was Chronic (medicine), which was not very ideal as per the reasons given in the move request. Since it was a year ago, you would be perfectly welcome to propose a new move if you wanted. The page is WP:RM and instructions are there. Wikipedians would then comment on your request. You could mention the possibility of splitting it into two there as well, although it's possible "Chronic condition" and "Chronic disease" might be considered similar enough not to warrant two articles. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 18:28, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Montgomery Bus Boycott

Hi. I've commented on your closure of the page (to Montgomery bus boycott) on the talk page, and ask if you could give more reasoning there for this close. It's such a major event in world history (in retrospect), and probably should, at a minimum, be explained further. I'd also like to take it to the next appeal level, but am not quite sure what that would be. Thanks. Randy Kryn 21:57, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Gun Hill Road (Bronx)

Hi, I reverted your move. The RM called for the "Bronx" disambiguator. The stations' articles are very unlikely to be confused, because if one is indeed searching for the station, they will be looking for "Gun Hill Road station," not "Gun Hill Road". The Google Results for "Gun Hill Road" will show the road first, not the stations.

In any case, they'd be searching for "Gun Hill Road 2 train" or "Gun Hill Road 5 train" depending on the line they are looking for.

Thank you. epicgenius, presented by reddit.com/r/funny (talk) 23:50, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

I also made a brand-new requested move at Talk:Gun Hill Road (Bronx, New York). Thanks, epicgenius, presented by reddit.com/r/funny (talk) 00:23, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Epicgenius thanks for your comment here. I have reverted your move to (Bronx, New York) again, because I don't think that's the best way to resolve this - having a third title in the mix muddies the water and will make any future RM discussions ambiguous. Per WP:MRV, the proper thing to do is to discuss my close with me here, which I'm happy to do in this case, as it was a close call. Anyway, I've made a lengthy comment at the new move request at Talk:Gun Hill Road (road), and pinged previous participants, so I think we can let that process determine the outcome here. Please leave the article at (road) for now, and if the discussion determines that (Bronx) is best, then it can be moved there at the end of that process. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 07:34, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Santa Fe Passenger Depot (Fresno) RM

Hi, could you revisit (part of) your close at Talk:Santa Fe Passenger Depot (Fresno)#Requested move 15 February 2016? Specifically, the part involving moving Fresno (California High-Speed Rail station) to Fresno station (California High-Speed Rail). There was support for that, and no real specific opposition, and it's the form recommended by the guideline. Thanks,--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:48, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Cuchullain yes, you're quite right. I have amended my close accordingly. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:59, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Luc Marchal

I happened to notice this when checking your editing for RfA: User:Amakuru/Luc Marchal. It looks nearly ready to go, he's certainly notable and it is mostly well sourced. I added an inline citation to an AP report on the court martial. The draft says there was a 2007 Belgian senate report, but the one I found was 1997: http://www.senate.be/english/rwanda.html. Is that what was meant or was there another later report? Another of the reference links is now not working. p.s. Good luck! Fences&Windows 20:42, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Fences and windows, in fact I can't take any credit for that article - it was my good friend BanyanTree, a fellow editor in the Rwandan space, who wrote the draft, then accepted a request for me to take it over, since he's not hugely active on WP any more. Sadly I've never got around to making any improvement to it myself in the two years since, but actually as you say it's probably good to go already as a shortish piece. I'll take a look tomorrow and then probably move it out to a new article. Or feel free to do so yourself if you like. Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 20:49, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

@Fences and windows: I have posted Luc Marchal as a full article now. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 17:51, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

RfA follow-up on AN/I

Hi again Amakuru. For some reason, I didn't receive a notification of your reply to my RfA question. Thanks for your response, though. I think I broadly agree, although I sometimes feel that responses from admins are slow to materialise at AN/I (e.g. in the Middayexpress case I was involved in last year, which you may remember due to your involvement in the debate over the appropriate title of the article now at Piracy off the coast of Somalia). Anyway, I don't want to engage you in a lengthy discussion about this now as you clearly have lots on your plate with the RfA. At least having more admins should in theory help speed up responses on the noticeboards. Best of luck with your nomination. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:16, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

In regards to your RFA

I've never seen a success rate that high before on an RFA - looks like it's going well! Best of luck - I'm sure you will pass based on what I have seen. --Ches (talk) (contribs) 16:37, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

@Chesnaught555: many thanks for your kind words. I have been very honoured and pleased by the large number of positive comments that have come in so far, it means a lot to be valued by the community. Keeping fingers crossed, there's still a few days left yet!  — Amakuru (talk) 16:42, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm sure you'll be absolutely fine, do not worry! --Ches (talk) (contribs) 17:40, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		Home-Made Barnstar
		Congrats on your success rate on your RFA! Hope you win! Your contribs are pretty awesome. Peter Sam Fan 19:22, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Peter SamFan, supporter number 1... Much appreciated!  — Amakuru (talk) 19:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Social Justice Warrior move decline

I think your close rationale misses some very basic points. 1) WP:NCCAPS, MOS:CAPS all support capitalization of proper names. This is often confused with proper nouns, but they are not the same. "South Africa" is a proper name and is always capitalzed. Common names have a property where the words can be reordered without losing their definition (i.e. "the southern nation in Africa, Africa's southern nation are the same meaning through common names but not the same as "South Africa" which is a proper name). Similarly a "warrior for social justice" does not convey the same meaning as "Social Justice Warrior" which is a proper name with a pejorative overtone (our article covers the term in this way). If you call someone a "Social Justice Warrior" you are lumping them with a group with that proper name, even though it is pejorative. This is grammar. 2) the reliable sources were outlined in the first paragraph with much more hits for "Social Justice Warrior." 3) inclusion in the dictionary is definitive in that it describes a proper name (the whole phrase is considered one noun, not 3 nouns). --DHeyward (talk) 21:03, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi @DHeyward: I'm not sure what you think is the difference between "proper name" and "proper noun" - the link you posted above redirects to proper noun anyway, and Wiktionary says they're the same. But in any case, the way we identify whether it is a proper name or not, is to consult reliable sources, and see what they tell us. If the majority of reliable sources show it in sentence case rather than title case, then we conclude that it is not regarded as a proper name. Your comment about reordering the words is interesting, but ultimately irrelevant because that's not how our guidelines say to operate. MOS:CAPS explicitly says that words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in sources are treated as proper names and capitalized in Wikipedia, and the majority of the participants at the move discussion felt that this was not satisfied. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 21:32, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

See the second paragraph in the lead of proper name and the details regarding linguistics and various style manuals. "A distinction is normally made in current linguistics between proper nouns and proper names." The second sentence in MOS:CAPS calls for proper names (not just nouns). Groupings of people is a proper name. "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" is a proper name, distinct from a proper noun. Members of PETA are quite a smaller subset than the number of people that believe animals should be treated ethically. Similarly, advocates for social justice or even warriors for social justice are not the same as the pejorative use of "Social Justice Warriors." As long as our article makes a disticnction that "Social Justice Warrior" has nothing to do with social justice or is separate from those advocating social justice (and we do because the Social justice page, a common name, doesn't associate with "Social Justice Warrior" except as a battled "See also" statement). --DHeyward (talk) 21:45, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

ORCP

Hello there. I was just wondering if you could comment on WP:ORCP and your subsequent decision to run for adminship. (I don't vote at RfA these days, but I am happy to see that you are doing great.) Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:22, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	Here is my support for your RFA~ Winterysteppe (talk) 19:02, 15 April 2016 (UTC)