User talk:Jytdog

Welcome!

Hello, Jytdog, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! --Edcolins (talk) 18:42, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Help

Hi Jytdog..I am at a loss...While I was liaising with you and left my revised manuscript on my Talk page for your attention as directed , I waited without response which I thought rather odd because you are usually prompt to reply...This morning the article was deleted by Kurykh. I was overwhelmed by the extensive amount of information which I read on various links on WP unfortunately without much use as to what I need to do next...However I have recreated the page (without my middle name , which I thought will be less confusing when searching me on the web) and submitted it for revision as required... and a copy of it is still on my talk page... Sorry to keep bothering you , my excuse is that I am 73 yr. old...Regards --Widmun (talk) 15:48, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

I see that you re-created the article in your userspace. User:Widmun/Muneer Al-Ali. As I mentioned to you, nothing can be in Wikipedia that is not based on a reliable source. Nothing you posted on the article talk page was useful, as it wasn't cited to reliable sources. The original article was deleted based on a valid, and validly closed, deletion discussion (here). There is nothing to be done now, unless more reliable sources with substantial discussion of you, come to light. Jytdog (talk) 17:06, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

..." Thanks...what I have added is factual i.e. DOB, my movement into jobs in the world, my academic posts and degrees...How can anybody document such facts? Publications of papers and books already been documented.. Regards--Widmun (talk) 22:07, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Facts need to be documented. Have a look at other biographies. Jytdog (talk) 22:09, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Revision: Anatabine

Hello!

I saw that you reverted my edit on the anatabine page, so I thought I'd come here to discuss it with you. Since I am a new editor, I am trying to learn from any reverts, so I appreciate your patience and participation. As a reminder, the information in question is below:

In 2013, the company became embroiled in political scandal, when news broke that the governor of Virginia, Bob McDonnell, and his wife had received significant loans and gifts from Jonnie Williams Sr, the CEO of the company. Williams resigned in 2014 and the company changed its name at the same time it changed its board and management, at the end of 2013 due to the scandal.

In your revert of my deletion, you gave the reasoning that "this is very relevant to commercial development of the drug. it belongs in this section." However, I do not understand why a political scandal involving the CEO of a company that happens to make this drug is relevant to the product development of this specific drug. I would understand if the scandal involved the drug itself, such as in the preceding paragraph which talks about the unlawful promotion of the drug, but that is not the case here.

Therefore, could you please explain your rationale for keeping this information in the Anatabine#Commercial Development section in greater detail to me?

References

Thanks! ―Biochemistry🙴❤ 16:53, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

If you would like to copy this onto the article Talk page, I will be happy to reply there. Content discussions should happen at article talk pages so that other page watchers can participate if they want and so they become part of the history of the page. Jytdog (talk) 17:00, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

That's a great idea! Thank you for reminding me. I'll happily do so. (: ―Biochemistry🙴❤ 17:15, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Warning on disruptive editing

Thanks for you warning, now comes mine. I originally assumed good Faith in Your edits. Even when other users told otherwise i still looked for common ground regarding content questions on the particular article and agf in what you did. Yet you did not seem to do the same if it comes to other editors in case they are not 100 percent on your side. For you it seems it does not count what RS tell, no but more what you want to see here personally on WP,- he best example is your absolute urge to include the particular point of German nationalism in the infobox of the party albeit you are till now neither able to give a single reliable source to that claim nor do you seem willing to understand what this ideology actually means. And now you try to push an even more blatant POV in the first sentence of the article, without even changing the sources.Well, If it is not obvious now what is going on here it probably never will be. In case you continue with such behaviour that violates WP guidelines sanctions are possible or could become necessary. This personal warning gets a bit more distinct on the matter instead of your fear aiming pre written example you liked to put on my talk page without any grounds behind. --Joobo (talk) 22:24, 13 May 2017 (UTC) Joobo (talk) 22:24, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

I have given you a warning; you will do as you will do. Jytdog (talk) 22:25, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Got WP:COPYVIO detection tips?

Hi there! I saw that you caught a WP:COPYVIO on Virtual Reality today that I missed when I approved the pending change. Could you give me some tips or best practices for detecting WP:COPYVIO so they don't get past me again? Are you using a tool? Should I be? Thanks! – 𝕘wendy | ☎  02:19, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

To be honest I didn't believe that the editor wrote the content - it was too colorful and magazine-y, and not normal encyclopedia writing, which led me to go check it. There is a tool that people use, CopyPatrol, but I don't use it. Jytdog (talk) 02:36, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Okay, I'll start with being more critical of the writing then. I took a look at CopyPatrol, but I'm not so interested in copyright that I want to patrol for it. Thanks & good catch! – 𝕘wendy | ☎  03:01, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

FYI

Alexander ISUM. — O Fortuna ^{semper crescis, aut decrescis} 15:53, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Ah! Thanks! Jytdog (talk) 17:26, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Sciences Po

I think your name appeared in some of the discussions about this. See WP:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Harassment from XIIIfromTokyo in case you want to propose how to resolve this. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 17:12, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

OK, I weighed in there. ugh. Jytdog (talk) 19:48, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for all the background you provided. Now I am curious about the relative merit of the French and English articles, so I looked at fr:Institut d'études politiques de Paris. Not too impressive! There is a 'multiple issues' template at the top which appears well justified. I don't know if this is a case of promotional editing. It just looks like it is packed full of excessive details and needs someone to figure out what's important. EdJohnston (talk) 04:02, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Yep it is a webhost too. Jytdog (talk) 04:11, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Creationism and cat:denialism

Creationism (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has a category:denialism. I don't see any mention of such in the article. At least with the An IP has removed it twice. Should the category remain? The category fits, but seems unsupported. Thanks Jim1138 (talk) 20:04, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Hm, this is a matter for the article talk page. Jytdog (talk) 21:45, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Good point. Done: talk:creationism#cat:Denialism - will add links to pertinent talk archives. Thanks Jim1138 (talk) 22:52, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Jewish mythology move

I've mentioned this to Favonian given his warning to the editor who moved it. Doug Weller talk 14:15, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. Jytdog (talk) 15:09, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I think i had enough

Just wanted to note that i think i have enough of the RfC talk. This whole episode is exactly why i never made an account or contribute in a long term and meaningful way. I am unwilling to tilt winmills, have too little patience and a too low a tolerance for certain tactics of discussion that are all too common all across Wikipedia. I mean, i just dont get what i can do and how to go on or what else could be done, although it certainly seems as if exactly that feeling is wanted, which again is all too common all around. I am also sure that if i check the talk my inner idiot will tell me to respond again and i will cave in... so maybe deep down i do like to tilt at windmills haha... anyway, have a good one i guess. Will keep an eye out on the article talk anyway because im quite curious in a sense how this will turn out. I mean i know how it will turn out but i am interested in further comments despite my resignation... ah well, what else is there to be done other than using sources against oppinion. If that is not enough, well there never was a chance anyway. Have to accept that and move on. Wikipedia is little more than fast food knowledge anyway and no reader gives a second thought about... basicaly anything. But that is another issue altogether that i probably shouldn't even have mentioned... alas my inner idiot told me to tilt at windmills again haha 91.49.68.199 (talk) 16:00, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

In regards to the Alternative für Deutschland Rfc for my mini rant, just to minimize possible confusion.91.49.68.199 (talk) 16:04, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

As you will. You haven't actually !voted in the RfC and you may want to consider doing so. Please keep in mind that at RfCs people often very different points of view and it is not possible that people see eye to eye. So you give your reasoning and sources, and other people find them persuasive, or they don't. Jytdog (talk) 17:14, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I obviously full well realise that i have not voted, nor do i intend to. Firstly i dont think it is appropriate for me as an IP to take a vote. Secondly after lurking around for a long time i noticed IP votes are mostly even seen in a negative "single purpose" like context. I rather "lose", in the loosest of terms and for lack of better words, than make myself or my point look like a pestering nuisance IP vandal or whatever. I rather keep a certain level of integrity than go all out about "winning", again same as above, a meaningless debate with strangers on a website. Rather die proud than win i guess. And yes im quite far on the left wing, for european standards, which is the third reason i do not intend to vote. I am biased against the AfD, strongly so. So i give my oppinion supported by sources rather than actually taking an active part in a decision because i MIGHT be guided emotionaly. But providing an oppinion supported by sources frees me from that personal conflict of interest in my oppinon and i see no harm in doing so. Anyway, i have no plan on taking a vote. If people take oppinion and assertions over sources, so be it and as i said before, there was no hope anyway. Have a nice day anyway. 91.49.68.199 (talk) 18:45, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

as you will. thanks for sharing your thoughts. Jytdog (talk) 18:52, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

It is kind of funny how predictable Wikipedia is. See, i am just an ip and not a user, easily disregarded and i didnt even vote. And this is the norm all across. Not a way to win editors. 91.49.68.199 (talk) 21:30, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

My my... that is one big ideologically driven mess there, you have my sympathies, as little as they help. Anyway, i would offer to look for some german language sources (am i allowed to offer that here?). There surely will be an abundance of accademical texts and so on about the topic. But as with the other article i will stay out of anything other than that. Certainly won't post at AN lol, i have no suicide wish despite having nothing to worry about. Would still look horrible and have no credibility. But maybe do take a deep breath, getting mad at shit like that will only annoy yourself and no one else, not that you need or want unsolicited advice from a random person :) But anyway, do have a good day non the less 91.49.64.221 (talk) 22:10, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Reversion of Strength and Conditioning Coach article

Hi, just wondering why published journals are as bad articles? According to Wikipedia, they are: Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Good research. Is there something I'm missing? Also, the Daily Mail reference was a joint article between them and the Rugby Players Association, a reputable source. Also, reputable newspapers such as the Independent and the Telegraph are used in other articles on Wikipedia. Why were they not allowed in this article? Just interested to understand, thanks. TGB13 (talk) 20:35, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Further, my edit wasn't vandalism or disruptive. There appears to have been not much regard for this article either: Wikipedia:Revert only when necessary. Was all of the edit really necessary to revert? TGB13 (talk) 20:39, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

You had some good refs but many, many bad ones. Please use high quality, independent sources. Thanks! Jytdog (talk) 03:41, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Okay, good point. Does that warrant a complete revert of the whole edit? Considering many points were supported by a variety of references, surely it would make more sense to just delete the articles you feel aren't "high quality and independent". I will undo your revert and remove some newspaper references, I assume those are you objection? TGB13 (talk) 18:53, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks refs are much better this time. It really matters!! Jytdog (talk) 19:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Stop being obstructionist

I realize you do not like me — but please refrain from reverting just based off that. If you followed the history of that page I have edited and helped build it extensively — and if you disagree with anything I do please take that to the appropriate venue — or at least try to discuss it and look to the history of the page. In case you missed it, I was the one who inserted that formulation at the start, and it frankly does not hold to give clear rules on a guide page. Look to the talk page and you will see a comment about why "it is inappropriate" is better wording than "you should not". Don't go around telling me that my conduct on policy pages in general is objectionable, that is rude and in fact far more objectionable. Carl Fredrik ^talk 13:19, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I like you just fine. Your approach to PAG is generally incorrect, is all. Happy to discuss the specific issue at the talk page. Jytdog (talk)

(edit conflict)What you are doing can easily be construed as WP:HARASSMENT, strengthened by your edit comment: this is how most people view this. as on MEDRS, please stop treating policies/guidiines like topdown rulebooks, which is absolutely inaccurate. Please refrain from reverting. Carl Fredrik ^talk 13:24, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I would also add that I object strongly with your approach to PAGs, and therefore suggest you discuss any and all issues before reverting me. Especially so before reverting repeatedly on grounds that are objectively false. Carl Fredrik ^talk 13:26, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Be aware that you are at WP:3RR on Help:Maintenance template removal. Please refrain from reverting, especially when your grounds are objectively false. Carl Fredrik ^talk 13:27, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh calm yourself Carl. Have opened a discussion at the talk page hereJytdog (talk) 13:28, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I may have acted somewhat rashly here, but since I know you and I are here for the same reasons, and have the encyclopaedias best at heart — I would prefer avoiding blanket-reverts either which way. When we both have good intentions I think it's far more disruptive to remove attempted improvements — than to discuss them for a few minutes/days and then see whether or not they actually hold water. For example, we would avoid the issue where I restore something I changed myself, for it to be reinstated with the argument that it had been there for a long time… Carl Fredrik ^talk 13:45, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Jytdog — Looking at the history, I realize I made a mistake when I remembered my original edit on the page. However I still contend that "should not" is an inappropriate wording. Please forgive my transgression, but you really need to rethink when you're going to revert someone. Being rude and harassing others by bringing up previous altercations is calling for a tempest in a teapot. I really wish we could work together, but you seem to attack everyone who has the slightest difference in opinion to you.

Note that I did not revert myself because you threatened with EWN, but because I realized I was wrong and had incorrectly recalled what my change 48 hours ago was. Carl Fredrik ^talk 14:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

In fact the best guideline to cite to express what you are doing wrong is WP:OWNERSHIP — and reverting good faith changes on multiple pages, especially with reference to previous times you engaged in such behavious is WP:HARASSMENT and incates you primarily reverted because you are following someone around, trying to stop them from engaging in PAGs. Carl Fredrik ^talk 14:02, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Glad you figured out what you were actually doing. :) Jytdog (talk) 14:03, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

And by the way, my involvement at the help page and MEDRS pre-dates yours. And especially at this exact section of the help instructions. If you try to bring a case that I followed you to either page, that would fall flat. Please mind what is actually happening in this too. Jytdog (talk) 14:06, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

That is not the issue. The issue is that you reverted with reference that you do not like my interpretation of PAGs in general. That would indicate WP:HOUNDING, and is not acceptable. Especially so as you discourage editing PAGs at all by singling out editors you disagree with. Carl Fredrik ^talk 14:09, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

You are making drama over something simple. You have aggressively made changes to two guidance documents that I watch, and the changes themselves, the way you have tried to force them in, and your arguments for them, have tended to depart from community practice and views on guidance documents and how we work with them. You have no hounding argument to make here. If you want to try at ANI, please feel free but it will not fly. Jytdog (talk) 14:18, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Ilikerabbits! and 123.231.* — gravely immoral

I had already composed this message but was unsure who to ask, then noticed you did the last revert, so here it is:
these edits creep in again and again, I'm not sure what to do about it. No immediate warnings to the last IP addresses, but there were (including to Ilikerabbits!), to invite discussion here, but no evidence of any conversation so far other than through edit summaries...
Articles of interest where the same addresses/user edits: Birth control, Reproductive rights, Young Earth creationism, Authorship of the Bible, Biblical literalist chronology, Women in Christianity, Christian views on slavery, Abortion and the Catholic Church (I've not checked extensively yet if all of those edits were necessarily problematic, except some repeated ones obviously are)...
Is this of a high enough gravity that I should worry or open an ANI case? Or do we keep reverting forever?
Involved addresses (that I know): 123.231.124.98, 123.231.121.246, 123.231.107.255.
123.231.107.255 was due for enough warnings reached, but then Ilikerabbits! and other addresses were also used.
Thanks in advance for your advice. — PaleoNeonate — 14:29, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for picking this up! Admins will be mostly likely to respond if you do two things. File at WP:RPP to temporarily semi-protect the affected articles and ask for an indef per NOTHERE at ANI, linking to the separate PP request. (and go back and link to the ANI at RPP). At ANI I recommend concisely presenting the diffs, making it clear that the editor is adding unsourced POV content and apparently editing while logged out. If you need help with that I could do that tonight but I have to go do RW stuff now. Jytdog (talk) 14:38, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. It would be my first ANI report. I have to shortly leave myself too, but I can't say that the edits occur more than once or twice a day, and other editors have been reverting most of it regularily, so it can certainly wait a few more hours. I'll carefully reread your recommendations before filing it if I do. — PaleoNeonate — 14:52, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

If you like I can to it tonight. No hurry. Jytdog (talk) 14:55, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

@PaleoNeonate: Blocked one week for now for socking. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

@NeilN: Thank you, — PaleoNeonate — 20:29, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

@NeilN: Does that imply that I should file an SPI report whenever one of those other adresses edits again? Or report at AE for ban evasion? Or contact you? Would an ANI case still be recommended, or perhaps unnecessary? Thanks again, — PaleoNeonate — 01:37, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

@PaleoNeonate: Just grab me if socking occurs. Thanks. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:04, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

• about this, :( I was enjoying the found poetry connecting gravel and sin. Wonderfully evocative - of stoning, the way things break apart when you do bad things, the friction that living badly brings. rocks in your underpants. etc. i am sure witty watchers could do things with it. Jytdog (talk) 20:38, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

The vocabulary was actually part of the evidence that it was most probably the same person — PaleoNeonate — 01:31, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Note

I have already asked that you refrain from posting on my talk, especially not with bullying threats like that. If you want to discuss this at ANI, I ask that you do this after June 13th when I will be able to defend myself. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 15:01, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

The diffs are what they are. The community will consider what you have actually been doing in WP. Jytdog (talk) 15:17, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I will refrain from editing both pages until June 13th, so long as I am given an opportunity to give myself a fair hearing on ANI. This is fair. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 15:22, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I will also self-revert my changes on German nationalism. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 15:27, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

In response to your note on my talk, I realise you do a lot of useful work on GMO, climate change and vaccine related pages, but this is fundamentally a dispute about the definition of the term German nationalism, and it can't be that everyone who disagreed with you on the talk is a bad faith editor. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 15:33, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Although I shouldn't have to do this, I am happy to disclose that I am a member of a mainstream political party in the United Kingdom, and I voted remain in the EU referendum. I have nothing whatsoever to do with right-wing populist politics, but I have a professional specialism in European history and politics, and that's why I feel strongly about the definition of the term. As I said, I will remove myself from wikipedia until June, in particular from those two pages. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 15:35, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I have said I will observe a voluntary topic ban for the next month, and revert my recent changes, if you agree to postpone taking me to ANI until I am able to defend myself. Please let me know if this is acceptable to you. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 15:53, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Popping in before I bury myself in RW stuff. You said above you would self-revert. You have not. If you have reconsidered the validity of your edit and justification for it (both are important) then please do self-revert. That would remove a piece of evidence and would affect my thinking about the ANI. If on the other hand you stand by it, then you stand by it. Jytdog (talk) 15:55, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I haven't and I stand by it. Since you're not going to be fair, I'll leave a note on WP:AN. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 16:06, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

The hole that you have dug, is entirely your own. That you are busy with drama rather than dealing with the heart of the matter, is also entirely your own doing and only adding to the diffs that I will bring to ANI. Jytdog (talk) 16:27, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

And you have now acknowledged that the edit was "sloppy". Yet you "stand by it" (diff). Jytdog (talk) 16:32, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Pharmavite

J - I was going to remove all mention of the vit E class action and its resolution, but hesitated because it was part of company's history. However, I am comfortable with that being deleted, along with the mentions of products and production sites. Bigger picture is that most of the mid- to large-sized supplement companies are constantly dealing with threats of or actual class action lawsuits ever since the Dannon yogurt decision. The resultant trend has been a reining in of egregious and unsubstantiated health claims. A few companies deliberately continue to skate near the thin ice, and others are just plain stupid. Whether any of that is Wikipedia-worthy may best be decided on a case by case basis. There are a few that cratered so spectacularly that it was an essential part of the description of the company (Sensa, Airborne, etc.). David notMD (talk) 15:11, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

people often come to WP to write about litigation in a way that favors one side or just publicizes it - we get this from all sides including lawyers trying to build class action cases. it is just one more reason to never add unsourced content to Wikipedia, and always follow high quality secondary sources that provide actual context, etc.. If settled/completed litigation is discussed in such sources, content about it is almost always DUE. whether ongoing litigation discussed in high quality refs is DUE has been debated. i reckon sometimes it is.

with regard to your assessment of marketing by dietary supplement companies -- they constantly spew bullshit and hype and there is zero sign of any "reining in". it continues unabated. do not write bullshit on my talk page. Jytdog (talk) 15:33, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brainspotting (2nd nomination)

So the lawyers are us link and 2 local news fluff pieces are right out? :). If I'd known it was G4, would have CSD'd on that basis.Dlohcierekim (talk) 19:24, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

:) Jytdog (talk) 19:34, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

• Merge to Trainspotting. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:14, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
• MergeDlohcierekim (talk) 21:15, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

I know we can work this out!

Best Regards,

Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 03:11, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - Newsletter No.4

Hello Jytdog,

Since rolling out the right in November, just 6 months ago, we now have 814 reviewers, but the backlog is still mysteriously growing fast. If every reviewer did just 55 reviews, the 22,000 backlog would be gone, in a flash, schwoop, just like that!

But do remember: Rather than speed, quality and depth of patrolling and the use of correct CSD criteria are essential to good reviewing. Do not over-tag. Make use of the message feature to let the creator know about your maintenance tags. See the tutorial again HERE. Get help HERE.

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If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:43, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Shneur Odze

Hello - can you please explain why we should not report this [1] since it seems to be adequately sourced? We may not be a gossip rag but it is perfectly normal and in line with a nuetral point of view to report adqueately sourced facts about article subjects. What is "BLP DS" please? Thank you. Amisom (talk) 16:05, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

If you would please restate the question on the talk page, I will reply there. article content discussions should be at the article. Jytdog (talk) 20:54, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

You're most welcome to copy any discussion there that you want :) I was hoping you could help me with my query? Amisom (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

I will not answer here. Content discussions belong on the article talk page. There are many reasons for this. as you are unaware of BLP DS I will give you notice of them on your Talk page. Jytdog (talk) 21:08, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

If you're not willing to engage in dialogue which is what a user talk page is for - and only willing to issue threatening "formal notices" incorrectly stating that I have edited BLPs - you will forgive me for not taking too much heed of what you are saying. Amisom (talk) 21:21, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

I will say it for the 3rd time. I am very happy to reply in more detail but it belongs on the article talk page. You are apparently unaware of how WP works. Article Talk pages are for discussing the article. Everybody watching the article can see it, and can participate, and the conversation becomes part of the article's history, that anybody can see, easily. Having discussions about article content at user talk pages makes no sense, as it does none of the things above. This is what article Talk pages are for.

User Talk pages are for discussing editor behavior or other matters - sure people can discuss article content at user Talk pages, but people shouldn't. Again if you ask your question at the Talk page, I will reply there.

Finally, notice of DS is not a threat, as the notice specifically states. Jytdog (talk) 00:04, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

What is your problem? All I did was ask two simple questions: (1) What was your reasoning behind the Shneur Odze edit, and (2) What does "BLP DS" mean? I didn't ask you to make some huge fusspot about exactly where I posted the question, you could just have answered politely like a normal person. And, indeed, Wikipedia:User talk clearly says I was right to ask you here: Talk pages are administration pages where editors can discuss improvements to articles. And if you were really, really concerned that the discussion should have taken place somewhere else, you could have copied it over, and not just been a WP:DICK and refused to engage at all. If you think that I am "unaware of how WP works" that's all the more reaosn to try to be helpful.

And the "DS alert" was a threat and you know it. All I did was ask what "BLP DS" stood for. You could just have answered, like a normal person. If I'd asked what an indictment was I suppose you'd have served one on me too.

I'm not going to report you, but just try to show a little courtsy to the next poor mug who tries to engage witih you. And cut out the vague threats Amisom (talk) 06:21, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi - in case it wasn't clear from the above, I would like you to stop posting rude, aggressive or unconstructive comments on my talkpage [2] Thanks in dvance Amisom (talk) 07:42, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Mind taking a look at Anselm Adodo

I stumbled across this during NPP. There's certainly nothing at all notable about him as a cleric, but I'd rather have someone who knows something about the alternative medicine stuff look at it also. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:29, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm on it, thanks. Jytdog (talk) 04:45, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

No problem. I noticed the COI after I realized he was some monk who seems to be running a business (which is bizarre in itself.) TonyBallioni (talk) 04:47, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

The person hasn't logged in since creating all this stuff. Will wait a few more days and then will start cleaning it up.... Jytdog (talk) 04:01, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Request

Could you please comment on the current changes [3]? An user is making major changes in the sourced text and falsified sources. 81.171.7.100 (talk) 11:57, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Second hand smoke

Hi Jytdog. I have a question that I was hoping you could help me with, mainly because I know you're active and knowledgeable here regarding medical topics and sourcing. I was reading a speech Michael Crichton had given [4] where he makes the following statement: "I can tell you that second hand smoke is not a health hazard to anyone and never was, and the EPA has always known it." I read through the wikipedia article on second hand smoke and it doesn't seem to line up with Crichton's statement. Do you know where I could read more about this claim? Or is it simply not true. Mr Ernie (talk) 13:38, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

simply not true. he had some fringe ideas. so damaging. Jytdog (talk) 17:18, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Gillespie

Gillespie's lobbying career was a significant part of his overall career, spanning two decades. Emphasis is not inappropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:5C1:4400:444E:56A:68B9:7075:2C18 (talk) 20:34, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for talking. I would be happy to discuss this matter on the article Talk page - please open the discussion there. Thanks again. Jytdog (talk) 20:38, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi

Hi, please see Talk:Religious violence.--46.10.52.226 (talk) 19:34, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Paleo Diet

Stop reverting my edits. I am adding a very relevant reference for an unreferenced claim in the article that needs a source. Also, you are threatening me with blocking when it's you who are doing blockable offences by advertising paid Wikipedia editing services. If you revert my edit again without having a discussion on the Talk page, I will report you. If you disagree with my edit, the correct thing to do is to discuss it on the Talk page, not start an edit war by simply reverting something that you don't agree with. Let99 (talk) 21:42, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

I have opened a discussion at the talk page already, which is what you should have done the first time you were reverted. btw, a) that twitter account is an impersonator; and b) googling people is "opposition research" and a violation of the harassment policy and the spirit of pretty much everything we do here. Jytdog (talk) 21:47, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Sweden EHS at Electromagnetic hypersensitivity - reopened discussion

I would appreciate your comments at Talk:Electromagnetic hypersensitivity#Reopening Sweden EHS matter --papageno (talk) 04:35, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

have already replied, thanks! Jytdog (talk) 04:36, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Patient participation

I would appreciate comments on my draft pages:

Patient participation

Shared decision making

Thanks in advance. Seniorexpat (talk) 08:53, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Your opinion

Am I wrong...? [5] [6] [7] [8] --BallenaBlanca (Talk) 09:03, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

you are not wrong, that IP was just spamming brand names. when i have the time and can drag myself to it (it is not fun) i do this: Azithromycin#Brands Jytdog (talk) 14:24, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Let's see if I understand. Do you mean to do something like this (following this model [9])? (You are right, it is a hard work...). What names should be left in the infobox? --BallenaBlanca (Talk) 19:05, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Jytdog - It's time for you to upgrade your research about magnetic fields

I notice that you like to disregard and delete the overwhelming proof that magnetic field therapy works. Finally, the FDA is no longer suppressing magnetic field therapy and is embracing it - and one of these reasons is because of the crisis that is happening with Oxi overdoses in the United States. The FDA wants the doctors to stop writing pain medication prescriptions - they are jailing doctors that write pain medication prescriptions that result in overdose. Trump has made changes in the FDA to accomplish this. You can watch TV commercials now PEMF therapy now. The FDA recently started 510K clearing all sorts of PEMF devices for over the counter use to treat pain and to promote microcirculation -

Even the drug companies that specilize in pain have jumped on board! Get with the program.

https://www.aleve.com/aleve-direct-therapy/

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf15/K152432.pdf

They have grandfathered in PEMF as TENS devices - PEMF induction to stimulate the blood vessels - not direct electrode contact - it's magnetic fields. This is how the FDA is doing this.

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf15/K151834.pdf

We all know of the vested interest in the pharmaceutical industry to keep this therapy secret but there are some big changes in the way the FDA now regulates magnetic field therapy - and this is because of Trump's change in healthcare initiatives. We know that doctors are not going to jump on board immediately because that would require a lot of re-education - but we should at least allow wikipedia to tell the audience that is on the verge of suicide because of chronic pain that there are now FDA cleared alternatives. That is what the surgeon general is promoting too - the US has to get off of pain medication. By you prohibiting this new therapy to be written about on wikipedia - you do a great disservice to humanity holding this information back. Kids are killing themselves. There are 300,00 children with childhood arthritis in the USA! It's time for you to learn that the FDA "thinks different" now and it's OK to talk about magnetic field therapy.

The article on PEMF needs to be updated. If you feel you are the expert - you write it - but PEMF has been used for over 100 years to treat pain all over europe. It's approved for pain by Health Canada now and finally the FDA accepts it too. Get with the program. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasonlee8985 (talk • contribs) 05:55, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

I have no comment on most of what you wrote. I left you a note about sourcing content about health in Wikipedia. Please read and follow that guidance - it has broad and deep consensus in the community. Please also read and follow WP:NPOV. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 15:55, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Nusinersen

1. Read WP:DNTTR. 2. Read WP:PRESERVE. Carefully. FYI, a simple Google search would have offered dozens of reliable sources. However, you preferred to revert, make a nonsense comment about EMA website, and then template me. I take it as malicious behaviour. — kashmiri ^TALK 18:04, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

When a "regular" is editing badly they deserve to be templated but I do apologize - I see that you have a tag on your talk page saying that you feel you are "above all that". I apologize for missing that. In any case, stop adding unsourced content to Wikipedia, and do not remove sourced content. If you continue to do that, you will find your editing privileges restricted. Jytdog (talk) 19:00, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Two Brigham Young self-declared COI editors

They might need some advice, particularly the spammer - some cleanup is going to be needed there if only because her ELs fail EL. See my post to Diannaa.[10] Doug Weller talk 14:17, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. Am watching for now... Jytdog (talk) 17:52, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

ANi

I appreciate your attempt to reach a conclusion at ANi.

I'm not sure exactly what bad behaviour you are trying to badger me into admitting but I see no reason to make statements that will be quoted back to me forever more in future disputes. The point of the thread is to address Wikihounding. I was not engaging with Godsy except to tell him to back off the harassment. Therefore there is no inter-editor behavioural issue at dispute with me.

Various unsubstantiated issues with my editing have been raised, but my track record stands up to fair scrutiny. We all make editing mistakes, but mine are not so bad I deserve any sanctions. No one has dragged me to the Admin notice boards in a long time.

I see from your userpage you've had your own fair share of disputes, so you should be more sympathetic here. Legacypac (talk) 21:29, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes i work in a lot of contentious areas and people get angry at me for many reasons. I also have some character flaws that create problems themselves (where people complain with reason). I am aware of those flaws and although they get away from me i try to manage them and I acknowledge and apologize when behavior driven by them causes problems. Being self aware, and being able to acknowledge your flaws and show you are working on them, is a really important thing. What I am asking you to do at ANI is not about self-crucifixion - it is about you giving the community assurance that you understand the part of the problems that you are causing (and you are causing some of them).Jytdog (talk) 22:31, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

perhaps I should work on being more tolerant of those who are not fortunate enough to have developed the ability to read and comprehend. I know that is a challenge in my regular life. I don't want to cause problems and I've become a much more cooperative editor since returning. Legacypac (talk) 00:25, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

That is a terrible answer. Unless you say something otherwise, I will take it that you see nothing wrong with your behavior and I will proceed accordingly. Jytdog (talk) 01:04, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Dear Jytdog

I'm writing about Fengchey's edits to the Diffusion Tensor Imaging section of the Diffusion MRI section. A claim of COI does not defeat peer reviewed articles and published patents. I'm the inventor of DTI. GE, Siemens, Hitachi, Toshiba, and Philips spent tens of millions of dollars on the top attorneys in the world to try to disprove this to avoid patent litigation for infringement and they lost. So why does an unknown person "Fengchey" get to delete the patent and all my publications. How does that serve knowledge?

Aaron Filler, MD, PhD — Preceding unsigned comment added by Afiller (talk • contribs) 17:11, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your note - I very much appreciate you talking. While their edit notes mentioned COI, they (more importantly) mentioned content policies, like WP:UNDUE and WP:PROMO.

I see from your talk page and from this COIN thread that you and others discussed COI back in 2009. I very much appreciated your comments at the COIN thread about various ways that conflict of interest causes problems in the RW, and especially behind the scenes. I worked on COI issues in academia for many years, and I understand what you wrote there.

The COI issues in Wikipedia are related but are somewhat different, due to the way this place is designed from the ground up. I talk about this on my userpage at some length, in NPOV part 2: COI and advocacy in Wikipedia (which depends somewhat on the prior "NPOV part 1" section)

COI management has evolved here since 2009. We have become much more clear on a two step process - the first involving disclosure, and the second, peer review. (totally normal for academia, right?) The way the 2nd step works, is that we ask editors with a COI ( and writing about yourself in Wikipedia is definitely a COI here) to disclose that on the relevant article talk page, and post content for others to review before it is added to WP. Would you please do that with content you want to add to WP about yourself, going forward? Once the disclosure and proposal is made at the talk page, the discussion about whether the content is OK to use "as is" or how it should be adjusted, or if there is nothing to use, should be based solely on the content policies and guidelines (WP:V, WP:OR, WP:NPOV, WP:RS/WP:MEDRS, and of course WP:NOT, and not be personalized in any way. Individual editors handle those discussions with more or less grace and professionalism; they do get difficult sometimes.

Anyway, does that all make sense? Happy to discuss further. Jytdog (talk) 17:45, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Jytdog

The material that Fengchey removed was posted in 2009 and 2010 and was extensively vetted at that time.

This is not original research. I understand you are "embarrassed" here because Fengchey co-opted you in your interest in COI

Many scientists don't believe in invetions. They think every advance comes from massive collaborative work. That is just wrong. These people are smart and productive, but get angry at inventors because they themselves have never been creative enough to actually have a breakthrough or industrious enough to bring it to reality.

We know from Wu et al, Clinical Evaluation and Follow-up Outcome of Diffusion Tensor Image-Based Functional Neuronavigation: A Prospective, Controlled Study In Patients With Gliomas Involving Pyramidal Tracts, 61 Neurosurgery 935 (2007) - a high quality prospective randomized trial - that DTI reduces the risk of death in brain surgery by 40%. Therefore my invention of DTI has saved tens of thousands of lives - sounds like a good idea to just delete me as punishment.

There are 15,000 peer reviewed publications in this area.

A patent is not something you just post. This is a product of years of conflict and review and proof.

Similarly with my published articles from peer reviewed journals.

We don't know if Fengchey has conflicts of interest. The person named on a work is an obvious person to kick around that many others may have interests. Every academic who publishes has an interest in their funding and in the success of their articles.

This dispute -between my work and Peter Basser is an absolute classic in mass COI. Basser was handing out grants at NIH that funded billions of dollars of research in this field. If you were a researcher, would you have a conflict of interest if you chose his version of events against Filler - who was not giving out grants?

Peter Basser - was a student at Harvard and I was teaching courses on the antecedent math on this subject in the 1980's

More important, we published a poster at a meeting - which was peer reviewed in 1992. The top specialist in the field saw this and contacted me for permission to present this at the plenary session of the next major meeting - the international society for magnetic resonance in medicine meeting in San Francisco in March of 1993. He presented it and his abstract states this is my work and it will allow us to see the internal tracts of the brain. Denis LeBihan (Basser's co=author) was the chair of the session so we know he was there. They ran out and filed their patent AFTER they heard Michael Moseley present my work. No one who looks at the details is fooled by this. As for Wikipedia - we battled all this out in 2010. You cannot discount those details either. If you don't respect your own process, and if you don't respect the judgment of US federal courts, then you are surrendering to vandals like Fengchey

The reason this is vandalism is that it was pure malicious destruction of what he knows to be valid science and technology. He has wholesale chopped out all of my peer reviewed publications and the patent.

The patent is a fact. All can see it.

Unlike most disputes in Wikipedia - the validity of this invention and the patent has been the subject of eight years of litigation. This arrayed an essentially unlimited litigation budget for GE, Siemens, Philips, Hitachi, Toshiba, Medtronic and Brainlab against me - a solo inventor. There have been tens of thousands of pages in this dispute.

It's not just attorneys and judges, a number of the leading scientists in the world participated as experts - informing the judges and attorneys, arguing their opinions etc. ALL of this is public record and available online. How does Fengchey get decide he knows better and Delete it all.

The history section on DTI should be restored as it stood for years before Fengchey's vandalism. He should be the one to get support of his changes and deletions before they are allowed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Afiller (talk • contribs) 18:16, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

As to the Undue weight issue

f you look in the courts - there is massive overwhelming support for the validity of US 5,560,360.

Basser has his patent and it is weak, late, and unconvincing. It would have been very easy for GE, Siemens, Philips, Hitachi or Toshiba to get out of this if they could have just pointed to Basser's patent. It was right there for them. It is technically owned by the United States because the invention was from NIH - (National Institutes of Health) but we sued the United States for patent infringement as well. They never tried to assert Basser's patent because it is hopeless.

In the discussions previously (2010) I pointed out that Hounsefield - who invented CT scanning has virtually no publications and no citations, despite a massive literature of hundreds of thousands of publications. That doesn't mean he didn't invent it and should have all references to it deleted.

Academia does not accept a weighing mechanism where we delete the publications of those that do not march in lock step with the majority thinking in science. If we did that - it would be a death knell for advancement in knowledge.

As for PROMO - it is just not self promotion. It is history. We did this first, we published it. Fengchey may want to flatter Basser to help himself get a grant.

To understand this - consider that I gave a talk on my work in Baltimore in 2015 and Basser tried to get me banned from speaking. This was at a scientific meeting.

Congratulations to Fengchey for trying get me banned from citing my patent in this area.

If you follow back the history - you will see that before I worked on the site in 2009 there was very little on Wikipedia about DTI. I provided much of the skeleton of the articles that still exists and cited numerous contributing authors including Basser and dozens more. This doesn't mean I had to leave out my original invention in US 5,560,360

~~afiller

Aaron Filler — Preceding unsigned comment added by Afiller (talk • contribs) 18:32, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Afiller (talk) 18:40, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

For perspective I wanted to tell a little more about my activities as a recognized editor

I am a section editor for Youmans Neurological Surgery - so that in the current edition I edited 18 chapters - of which five I wrote or co-wrote - this position reflects respect for my work by my colleagues in this field

Additionally I have served for years on Joint Guidelines committee of the Congress of Neurological Surgeons and the American Association of Neurologic Surgeons - this means that I work on doing the evidence based guidelines that review thousands of peer reviewed published articles - typically rejecting about 95% of the publications in the leading peer reviewed journals due to inadequate methodology

In deciding validity and quality - it is not a majority vote that decides. The biggest enemy of valid medical practice is "consensus" of experts. We understand well that theories and medical treatments get established by "leaders in the field" that then accumulate thousands of citations and so gain the aura of truth. However, if the underlying methodology is inadequate, the results, the teachings and the treatment may be invalid and have to be coldly discarded.

For patents, the vetting is intensive - particularly in litigation. Further unlike an academic publication, you have to be able to prove that it actually works. Any person should be able to follow the published method in th patent and get the promised results. We don't need a committee of self-appointed pontificators to decide if the patent was filed first, if it works and if taught everyone else how to proceed.

As to the 1993 meeting when Michael Moseley showed our first diffusion tractogram to 3,000 MRI scientists - after that event - how can anyone else in MRI make a later claim to having invented it? No matter how many people cite them. Basser is quoted from an interview around that time saying that tractography is "science fiction" - it may never work. At the time he gave the interview - he didn't realize we had already invented it and made it work. The first tractogram was published into a priority document for our patent in 1992. Basser did not publish his own tractogram until more than three years later. Moseley contacted Basser in 1993 and asked him to include my work in a book on diffusion and Basser refused. Therefore we know he was given a copy of the work years before his first success in this field. All of this was discussed in Wikipedia talk in 2010.

Nothing has changed except further court decisions - which I cite to in todays edit that support the effective validity and priority of US 5,560,360

Afiller (talk) 18:56, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

TRASHING OF TRACTOGRAPHY Page

In addition to vandalizing the DTI History section, Fengchey has vandalized the tractography section

Once again when we want a review article - we do turn to an expert. We expect that a leader in the field will be knowledgeable. We expect that a leader in the field will cite to his own work if it is validly important work. The best thing is that any COI and any "self promotion" will be obvious to the reader.

It is Fengchey we know nothing about. Can we see his tax returns? Who does he work for? Is he applying for any grants or does he intend to apply for any in the future? He's probably "anonymous" This is one of the great fundamental intellectual errors of Wikipedia - you think that if someone is "anonymous" you can trust them more. You distrust a person who gives their name and signs their work with their real name. That is the at the heart of many disputes you struggle with.

Please restore the prior article and make Fengchey disclose who he/she is and defend the vandalism before the changes are allowed.

All edits by Fengchey anywhere on Wikipedia are suspect and should be taken down until he/she can show no conflicts - e.g. unemployed, never trained by any professor, never planning to publish and never having sought nor ever planning to seek any grants

He should provide a CV, references to conatct, address, telephone and email as I have done.

We also need to know if he, a family member, an employer or any person with whom he shares even a remote financial or personal interest has ever been sued for patent infringement by NeuroGrafix for the US 5,560,360 patent. Is Fengchey an attorney retained by a defendant in the patent infringement litigation?

Afiller (talk) 19:09, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Afiller (talk) 19:14, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I am not "embarrassed". Most of what you write here unfortunately has no relevance in Wikipedia - you wrote so much that it is difficult to reply to everything. You are clearly pretty upset. I am sorry about that. Jytdog (talk) 19:24, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Ok - so how do we go about resolving this? Afiller (talk) 19:32, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I can see that you point out review of "information about myself." I presume that applies to any paper or patent of which I'm a participating author. Afiller (talk) 19:38, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

As I point out, most of the original article on DTI (added to diffusion MRI) is material I wrote - so I guess all of it should be taken down and we can start from scratch with the whole article. However if you think the above is too much to read - I think you'll see that the review you propose will be very challenging. Afiller (talk) 19:43, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

The work of building high quality content in the particular environment that is Wikipedia is always challenging. COI issues add an extra wrinkle, but once COI is managed through the two-step process it is, well... manageable. It just adds a bit to the already-present complexity.

We can discuss the content on the relevant article Talk page (for the current content, at Talk:Diffusion MRI). Please do not discuss contributors there, but rather focus on content, basing the discussion on reliable sources and on the content policies and guidelines.

With regard to behavior issues

a) it would be useful if you added to the disclosure on your Userpage, a very high level (a sentence or two) discussion of NeuroGrafix' patent enforcement activities, which have included hospitals and universities as well as companies that sell MRI equipment, so that other editors are aware of the extent of your real world financial interest in this topic. (I am not making any judgement about those enforcement activities; they should just be disclosed). You already have disclosed your academic "interest" as someone who claims, and is credited with, key discoveries in the field. Thank you for agreeing to follow the Wikipedia peer review process. If you have questions, about details of the doing that, please feel free to ask here at my Talk page (that doesn't belong on an article Talk page - article talk pages are strictly for discussing article content).

b) with regard to your questions about Fengchey, two things. First, please be aware that it is kind of distasteful when someone with a COI turns and raises questions about potential COI of others who are addressing what they perceive as promotional editing. Please handle that with care. Secondly, one needs to have some on-WP evidence that there is what we call an "apparent COI". Removing promotional content is generally not a sufficient reason to raise a COI question. I considered it when Fengchey first showed up but decided at that time that there was insufficient justification in their edits to ask them about COI. Even asking people if they have a COI is something that needs to be done with care here. If you have some other reason based on their contributions in Wikipedia, please let me know. Please limit your response to discussing their work here on Wikipedia - we indefinitely block people who violate our WP:OUTING policy.

By the way, would you please follow the norm of indenting your comments on Talk pages? If you look at this text (or any talk page discussion) in the editing window, you will see that we use preceding colons (which the Wikipedia software turns into tabs) to thread discussions. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 20:31, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Jytdog - I understand that Wikipedia is a passion for you and I do appreciate how we all benefit from the work you and your fellow editors do. I also accept your point about it being distasteful to raise a COI issue when accused of COI. However - if I had edited anonymously as Fengchey has done, there would be no apparent COI issues. It does seem proper that someone alleging COI should identify themselves so this important issue can be understood. In the very passionate and extensive discussions, edits and changes that led to the text as it existed for seven years - a joint collective product of the Wiki interested DTI community - I did not question the motives and ID in this way. The problem with the Fengchey edit is that he gave you explicitly false information. Particularly - it is just a fact that some do not like - that our group did figure this out, published it and patented it. These are just historical facts. Fengchey's solution, if he was unhappy, could have been to add comments about a controversy - but he will know that because patent filings are legal records you can't reasonably claim they don't exist, that they don't say what they say, or that they occurred at a different time than the time alleged. It's all incontrovertible fact (you can see on google patents that is cited by 229 other patents in this field - which is a huge impact in patent - see https://www.google.com/patents/US5560360). Even if he wished it weren't true - if he was interested in the history of DTI - how does it contribute to knowledge to simply and completely eradicate all mention of the historical events, delete the patent and delete all of my publications. It is not a reasoned unbiased thing to do. It just reflects an intention to mislead by a person who understands you and your work an knows what buttons to push to get away with seriously damaging the article. Honestly, COI or no COI if you have an article about the history of DTI how do you delete without a trace all the original work and the fundamental patent in the field. How does that make Wikipedia better?

I further understand that going forward, I can make the case on the talk page and he can say why it the actual factual history should be completely suppressed in order to protect everyone. I do have a long complex historical article that was peer reviewed and published ( http://ispub.com/IJNS/7/1/12184 ). It covers all of digital imaging and there is very little else out there on the subject. Inevitably, it does include my own work but that is an inevitable consequence of being a person who both invents and writes and who has interest in history as well as in the promotion of methods of promoting advance in technology. While so many people fear helplessness about climate change and anger about the Paris accord - I've actually developed new technology to replace carbon - ( https://www.google.com/patents/US20160086680 ) that is what will save the planet - rather than hopeless Trump bashing as most people rely on to try to save the planet - e.g. technology must be advanced in leaps not increments and inventors should be able to develop and provide the world with the benefit of their inventions even if all inventors are banned from writing about their inventions on Wikipedia.

Afiller (talk) 16:09, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

If you will simply follow the COI management process, and make sure that what you propose on the talk page is based on reliable (ideally independent) secondary sources, and the policies and guidelines, and behave accordingly as well (don't discuss contributors, and if there is a dispute follow WP:DR) then everything will be fine. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 17:13, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Are you out of your area of expertise?

You've participated in exactly 1 MfD involving userspace and zero involving draft space. https://tools.wmflabs.org/xfd-stats/cgi-bin/xfd-stats.py?username=Jytdog&max=50000 compared to 815 I've participated or initiated https://tools.wmflabs.org/xfd-stats/cgi-bin/xfd-stats.py?username=Legacypac&max=50000 In 82% of all time my vote or nomination lines up with the result. Is there some other experience in the user/draft area that qualifies you to seek a topic ban on my participation? Legacypac (talk) 22:23, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. The several extensive ANI cases that have arisen since you became intensely concerned about draft/userspace are all the evidence that anyone needs to judge this. Your approach to the community's repeated expressions of concerns about your pushing the envelope on this, are not helping you. Jytdog (talk) 23:33, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

While I appreciate you withdrawing your proposal after you got pushback, in the process you archived my detailed defence to all the baseless allegations. That was imappropriate and I've seperated it out now. Legacypac (talk) 06:50, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Your closures on discussions about WP:banning policy

Hello. You closed Wikipedia talk:Banning policy#Proposed clarifying change here and to blocking policy as "no significant disagreement" almost one month ago. However, some people raised points about the changes. Also, I listed it at Template:centralized discussion and then delisted it into Archives when you closed it. If relisting is unnecessary (which I'm not requesting... yet), how about amending or expanding your closing rationale instead? Also, you closed Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Unblocking after community-imposed block as "Resolved, policies amended". The change to such policy would affect how Wikipedia is edited, and I think the proposal is more than just a simple change. Nevertheless, as said, if relisting is unnecessary, I think more explanation and summarization are appreciated please. Thanks. --George Ho (talk) 06:25, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Hypothetically, (no offense) what if you could get blocked per community consensus? How would you appeal the community-implemented block? George Ho (talk) 06:31, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

No offense taken. The objections (mostly the concern about community-mandated indefs being added to the block log so nobody steps into it by accident) were incorporated into the proposal. What do you understand that was left out of the close? Very happy to amend. Jytdog (talk) 06:34, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

At the WT:banning policy, one said something like "wikilawyering", another who supported the proposal said "slippery slope" at "Notification requirement" section, another said "proposed change wouldn't technically prevent problems [but is] a move in the right direction." You can summarize the arguments in your own way and expand the closing rationale. The closure of the WP:VPPR discussion would be said as "superseded" by the policy change, but you can summarize the arguments in favor of either option. Well... "option 1" arguments, "option 2" arguments, and "option 3" arguments. How is that? George Ho (talk) 07:50, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

I'll just undo my close and you or someone else can redo it. Jytdog (talk) 07:54, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

You mean both of them, right? And will you undo the policy change? If so, I'll relist just one of them into template:centralized discussion then. George Ho (talk) 07:58, 4 June 2017 (UTC); never mind then. 08:08, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

I will do the other one too. I do not understand the drama you are making - it is has been announced on the admin newsletter and there are no objections. But whatever. Jytdog (talk) 08:00, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

On the other hand, no. I am un-undoing. This appears to just be drama. You can call for the close to be overturned at AN if you like. Re-listing is just too much. There were no substantial objections and as far as I can see you are not making any either. Jytdog (talk) 08:02, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

My apologies. I guess you have a point then. Nothing wrong with the change. --George Ho (talk) 08:08, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

ack. :) Jytdog (talk) 09:10, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Graeme Clark (doctor)

Hi. The article may still be horrible, but it doesn't require an expert, has plenty of in-line citations, and some of the other tags have passed their use-by date. Please review and prune the tags. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:49, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

I will do at some point. It will be a few hours of work. The problems are not trivial. Jytdog (talk) 09:50, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Fair comment. However, removing "expert" & "in-line citations" shouldn't be an issue, should it? I can do that if you agree. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:54, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

COI

Is there a best place to notify of undisclosed/potential COI editors? The IP user 75.99.119.254 has only been making edits related to Colavita, and very promo ones at that. ɱ (talk) · vbm · coi) 20:07, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

COIN is the best place. I'll have a look though. Thanks for watching out! Jytdog (talk) 21:25, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

medical articles

Heh. I remember you citing a guideline for sourcing these during an AfD. Can you remind me of where it is? I really need to become familiar with that.Dlohcierekim (talk) 00:02, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

WP:MEDRS :) Jytdog (talk) 00:03, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks.Dlohcierekim (talk) 00:11, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

What ever happened to the Vipul/EA situation?

Sorry for bothering you out of the blue. I was lurking the whole fiasco EA/transhumanist/Vipul fiasco for a while, but stopped following it. I remember you wanted to start an RfC; did that ever happen? GojiBarry (talk) 00:49, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

No problem. Vipul announced during the ANI that he was disbanding the project; he said he wanted to restart it but I have heard nothing. There was a burst of cleanup of refs and articles but that has slowed and is more sporadic (there is still a lot to do). The community didn't end up taking large scale action. Jytdog (talk) 00:51, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Antrochoanal polyps

A tag has been placed on Antrochoanal polyps requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section R2 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a redirect from the article namespace to a different namespace except the Category, Template, Wikipedia, Help, or Portal namespaces.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Legacypac (talk) 05:16, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Request for page review

Hi, I had create 20 articles. But there are few pages which are not reviewed till now. I am requested to you please review the pages.Tushar Singha (talk) 17:41, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Advice needed on Olanzapine edit

Hi Jytdog, I am performing a cochrane update on Olanzapine, and I am having trouble deciding if I should change the current text in the article.

What information do you think is important to relay from this 2005 review?

It presently states, "A Cochrane review found, however, that the usefulness of olanzapine maintenance therapy is difficult to determine as more than half of people in trials quit before the six-week completion date."

Thanks for your time!

JenOttawa (talk) 23:50, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

I would say it is time to get rid of that ref, which fails WP:MEDDATE, and update the content with a more recent review!  :) Jytdog (talk) 23:58, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

OK. A good challenge for me. What do you think of this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23810019 Thanks for your feedback. JenOttawa (talk) 01:43, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Sure! PMID 28219485 seems important as does PMID 26801655 and PMID 27866695. Jytdog (talk) 01:55, 11 June 2017 (UTC) (oh, magic links I will soon not be able to use you Jytdog (talk) 01:55, 11 June 2017 (UTC))

Yes, thanks. I will check these out as well. How important is impact factor when choosing an appropriate systematic review for Wikipedia? I chose a review with the highest impact factor that was reviewing at what I was looking for. JenOttawa (talk) 02:12, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

The Lancet ref is just already 4 years old so is on the edge of meddate already... but a big improvement over the 2005 review! An improvement is an improvement. About sources, it is always a balance. Not going too low, not missing important more recent conclusions. Ideally the time you invest in this will be useful for as long as possible... that is the only reason i suggested looking at the more recent ones. Jytdog (talk) 02:21, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

This makes sense. I will try to us

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