Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera

A selection of September and October's new articles...

• Dionysos, an opera for which composer Wolfgang Rihm also wrote the libretto using only the words of Nietzsche (pictured)
• José Bros, Norah Amsellem, and Marcus Haddock, three singers who rose to prominence in the 1990s. Two are still singing. One had his career cut short by a massive stroke in 2009.
• Joseph Touchemoulin, a 19th-century French violinist and composer who wrote three operas—all of them now lost
• Mala vita, Umberto Giordano's first full-length opera—a hit in Rome but a fiasco in Naples where the Teatro San Carlo audience behaved "like a kennel of barking dogs."
• Cynthia Clarey, a soprano whose voice lowered with age, so she took up cabaret singing
• Beatrix Borchard, a musicologist who researched Pauline Viardot

Composer and Opera of the Month Proposals A simple script will automatically replace the text on the front page with the appropriate month when the time comes. Here are the next three months: [edit] Composer of the Month for August 2024 Click Here to set up August's Composer of the Month! [edit] Opera of the Month for August 2024 Click Here to set up August's Opera of the Month! Click here to show the September and October Opera and Composer of the Month preparation areas [edit] Composer of the Month for September 2024 Click Here to set up September's Composer of the Month! [edit] Opera of the Month for September 2024 Click Here to set up September's Opera of the Month! [edit] Composer of the Month for October 2024 Click Here to set up October's Composer of the Month! [edit] Opera of the Month for October 2024 Click Here to set up October's Opera of the Month!

Clean up project: Copyright violations

Project alerts

WikiProject Opera/Article alerts has daily reports of issues (XfDs, PRODs, FACs, Peer Reviews, etc.) on all pages bannered with WikiProject Opera. Opera Search Results lists new articles which may fall under the scope of the project. For articles that do fall within our scope, add {{WikiProject Opera}} to the talk page. A selection of clean-up tags can be found here. WikiProject Opera/New unreferenced BLPs has a daily list of all such articles. Tips on sourcing can be found here. Category:Requested edits lists all articles where an editor with a conflict of interest has requested an edit on the article's talk page. Note that this category is not currently differentiated by project.

Archives – Table of Contents

Archives – Alphabetical Index

Article creation and cleanup requests

Note: Past creation and cleanup requests are archived here. Voceditenore (talk) 11:29, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Article requests

• Teatro Nuovo (Milan) (see it:Teatro Nuovo (Milano)).4meter4 (talk) 03:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
• See also International Opera Awards (redlinks) in the archives. Voceditenore (talk) 17:14, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
• Almanacco Amadeus (and Gherardo Casaglia?) would be courteous of us. The transclusion count of the {{Almanacco}} template should pass through 500 today. Scarabocchio (talk) 08:15, 1 July 2015 (UTC
• Cecelia Hall (mezzo-soprano) per this discussion

Cleanup requests

• The Opera Project cleanup list shows all opera articles in need of clean up, referencing, expert attention, merging, splitting, verification, 'wikification', etc. The list is updated frequently by a bot. Just scroll down the list of cleanup categories and click on the appropriate link, e.g.
  • Articles in need of updating
  • Articles with no footnotes

Voceditenore (talk) 18:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

This list is updated weekly, on a Tuesday (according to its History list). Scarabocchio (talk) 20:11, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Image requests

List here any articles for which you would like an image or any current images which could use cleanup or improvement.

WikiProject X

This is an initiative to improve WikiProjects and other subject-area collaborations on Wikipedia through research, design, and experimentation. The archive of their past newsletters is here. The WikiProject X coordinator is Harej. – Voceditenore (talk) 11:20, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Free subscriptions to databases

• Questia Online Library – apply here for the next round
• Highbeam Research apply here for the next round
• JSTOR apply here for the next round
• Credo Reference sign up for waiting list here
• Répertoire international de la presse musicale, an excellent resource, sign up here

Voceditenore (talk) 10:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC) Updated by Voceditenore (talk) 07:57, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Opera articles: Recordings - which to exclude?

As there has been no further discussion on this since early December 2010, I've archived this here. But this is a topic we may want to revisit at some point, re expanding/clarifying the current article guidelines. Voceditenore (talk) 08:37, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

The latest discussion (January 2014) is archived here. – Voceditenore (talk) 09:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Greetings from the German language Opera Project

Hello, just wanted to say Hi! from the German language Opera Project. We started in the beginning of 2011, a very recent effort compared to you. Likewise, our average articles on operas, composers etc. are quite behind the en:WP in terms of coverage and content. Which is a shame, considering the richness of opera life in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. We have started by focussing on the widely read articles on popular operas, see this List, which gives page impressions in de:WP and en:WP and also global number of productions per year as a proxy for popularity. The rationale is this: given our low number of contributors, having 20 formerly poor articles on popular operas turned into solid works is worth more then 20 more articles on arcane subjects. How did you go about growing your project? PS: Maybe there could be some areas of cooperation, especially as regards access to and understanding of German language sources and literature. Let me know what you think. --Non mi tradir (talk) 16:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

• I have introduced this timely proposal to the discussion here. --Smerus 20:27, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Articles needing libretto links

Note that for now some of the Rossini librettos can still be accessed from the list on this page on Karadar, but it will require adding those new links to the articles, and I'm not sure how long it will be before Karadar closes that loop hole. Anyhow, here's the list of operas so far where I've removed dead links and there is currently no other alternative. It's also possible to recover some of the karadar links via the Wayback machine, as was done at L'éclair, although it's a bit fiddly. If you add a new link, just strike through the opera name(s) below. Voceditenore (talk) 16:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Help! Does anyone know how to access Karadar these days? It appears to be a dead link - and I've tried to get into it via a couple of ways. Viva-Verdi (talk) 16:15, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Viva-Verdi. It appears to have disappeared in all its guises–.com, .org. and .it. I have a feeling they ran into copyright problems with some of their stuff. It's not showing up on Google searches at all and see this wacky note. I have found this other site which has links to zillions of libretti. Hopefully, you'll find the one(s) you're looking for. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:06, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

List

Le domino noir (only score found), Sigurd (opera), Ciro in Babilonia, Sigismondo, Ricciardo e Zoraide, Eduardo e Cristina, L'equivoco stravagante, I Capuleti e i Montecchi, Médée (Charpentier), Emilia di Liverpool, Francesca di Foix, Il signor Bruschino

Spam links to watch out for

Tool for finding all pages currently linking to a particular domain

• classicistranieri.com See this discussion. – Voceditenore (talk) 11:33, 30 March 2015 (UTC) Now blacklisted

• profsonstage.com See this discussion. – Voceditenore (talk) 11:37, 30 March 2015 (UTC) Not yet blacklisted

• streamopera.com Commercial site based in Italy selling streamed opera recordings. Had been added to 20 singer and opera articles. Voceditenore (talk) 10:45, 11 May 2015 (UTC) Not yet blacklisted

Requested opera templates

Archived at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 120. Voceditenore (talk) 09:46, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Missing women biographies

WikiProject Women in Red wants your biographies...

I've taken the liberty of adding a new task to this project's 'Other ways to help' list (diff), in the form of a list of circa 1500 female opera singers for which we have no biography - missing opera singers. It is part of the Women in Red initiative, aimed at correcting the distressing imbalance of male and female biographies on wikipedia, currently in a ratio of 84:16.

I hope members of this project will consider putting some of their time towards Women in Red. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:47, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

I was trying to figure out how these names are in Wikidata but not Wikipedia. Then I thought maybe they are in non-English Wikipedias. Is that correct? - kosboot (talk) 01:37, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Some, maybe. But it is also possible that someone has entered a list of opera singers into wikidata, and that no language wiki has articles on them, Kosboot. Oh, and I'd like to specify for the record that I was listening to Nixon in China when I created the list and posted it here. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:10, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

A great source for lesser-known French singers is: Jean Gourret, Dictionnaire des cantatrices de l'Opéra de Paris (Paris: Albatross, 1987). - kosboot (talk) 04:02, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Tagishsimon! See the section below (Composer/Operas of the month for November or December?) for the follow-up. Voceditenore (talk) 11:21, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Yup. We seem to be cross-posting ;) --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:23, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

By the way, Tagishsimon, opera singing is perhaps the one place on Wikipedia where there is no imbalance of male and female biographies. In fact the ladies outnumber the gentlemen by quite a lot. We have 2028 biographies of female opera singers compared to 1437 biographies of male opera singers. But we can always use more. Viva la diva! . Voceditenore (talk) 11:45, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Bravo! A rare corner of Wikipedia indeed. :) --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:31, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Of possible interest

The daily hour-long radio program Exploring Music now offers all of its 170 or so week-long (5 one-hour episodes) programs online to listen to on-demand [1]. A handful of them are free; the rest are accessible with either a $60 year-long subscription, a $10 one-month subscription, or a $5 per five-hour (5-episode) series. It is an excellent combination of very detailed information and music. I used it, for instance, in compiling much of the information on Richard Strauss's post-1932 career. There aren't a lot of opera composers represented, but there is, for example, a two-week (10-episode) program on Verdi (which I haven't fully listened to yet): [2]. There's also a 5-episode program on Wagner's Ring, which is wonderful for both Ring novices and Ring-heads, and which is one of my two favorite Exploring Music series: [3]. (Hmm, now that I look, there's also a 5-episode series on Wagner himself, which I don't think I've heard [4].) My other favorite series is the 10-episode series on Mahler: [5]; Mahler is evidently a particular favorite of Bill McGlaughlin, the host and writer. McGlaughlin is a composer and conductor, and a diligent and encyclopedic researcher, which he belies by his intimate, down-to-earth presentation style. Lastly, the first seven minutes of each of the 850 or so episodes is free to listen to. [6]. -- Softlavender (talk) 09:19, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Possible creation of articles about Mozart's original singers

Personally, I find it very interesting to read about the various singers who premiered 18th century operatic works, and especially to compare the roles in which a particular singer performed. I find that this gives me a better idea of what an opera might have originally sounded like, as we know that Mozart and other prominent composers of the era would often be aware of the cast and their respective vocal abilities, range, quality, quirks, etc. before writing.

This being said, my favorite part of the opera articles on Wikipedia is often the premiere cast list. What is most interesting is the similarity in the Vienna cast for Mozart's three mature Italian operas as well as other prominent Italian operas that were premiered around this time, my favorite of these being Il matrimonio segreto. When I looked into it, I found out that the singers were all part of an opera buffa company that was sponsored by the emperor.

Considering the importance of these Mozart operas and the very interesting and appealing fact that there was a company of singers who Mozart and the other prominent composers of the day wrote for regularly, I find it surprising that there are not articles about the more significant members of the company or at the very least an article on the company itself. Benucci (Figaro, Vienna Leporello, Guglielmo, and Il matrimonio segreto's Count Robinson), Storace (Susanna), Gottlieb (Barbarina and Pamina!), and Kelly (Paisellio's Count Almaviva, Basilio/Don Curzio) all have fantastic articles, and much shorter ones exist for some other singers who were in the company.

However, there is no article for Francesco Bussani, who premeried Bartolo, was the Vienna Commendatore/Masetto, and Don Alfonso, and also seems to be quite a colorful character: http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095538291

Nor is there a page for his wife, Dorotea Bussani, who was also member of the company. There is, however, an article on her in the italian Wikipedia: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorotea_Bussani

It is quite short and lacks many personal details other than the date of her marriage and who her father was. It does state some of her roles, such as Cherubino, Despina, and Fidalma in Il matrimonio segreto.

Also interesting might pages be: Stefano Mandini (Count Almaviva), who was married to Maria Mandini (Marcellina): https://muse.jhu.edu/article/638260 Luisa Laschi (Countess Almaviva: http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780195337655.001.0001/acref-9780195337655-e-840 Francesco Albertarelli (Vienna Don Giovanni): http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780195337655.001.0001/acref-9780195337655-e-22?rskey=SyFcF2&result=1

I began to start a new article, but was quickly overwhelmed technical aspects of article creation. To this end I posted this here with the hope that someone will think my proposed project is worthwhile.

96.236.221.120 (talk) 21:07, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Of possible interest 2

My state classical-music NPR station has a weekly art song program (previously called Great Songs, now called Singing and Other Sins because nowadays people call anything that can be downloaded a "song"). It is the only radio program in the world that focuses on art song. The station has a new website format and all of the archived episodes are free to listen to: [7]. Over the years the show has also done exclusive interviews: I particularly recommend the 2013–2016 interviews with Ned Rorem, and the two-part 2013 interview with Christa Ludwig(!). Just Control+F interview. Most programs are not interviews but rather artsong programs with well-informed commentary. Anyway, check out the various episodes if you like! Softlavender (talk) 04:03, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for this, Softlavender! Best, Voceditenore (talk) 21:19, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Welcome. I notice now that although the show has been airing weekly since 1988, there are no archived shows prior to 2012 for whatever reason. I also notice that the webpage is not actually on HPR but on a website (belonging to the host Gary Hickling) dedicated to Lotte Lehmann, which is a very interesting site in and of itself. Softlavender (talk) 21:39, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

By the way, I just discovered there is a rather messy wiki article on Hickling's Lotte Lehmann Foundation. It needs help, if anyone cares to clean it up. Softlavender (talk) 20:56, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Hmmm, yes, "rather messy" is quite an understatement. I've removed a whole load of non-references, i.e. those simply linking to the home page of various people's official websites which verify nothing actually said in the WP article, and formatted the others, none of which are third party. For now that's all I have time for, perhaps someone will take it on. All of which reminds me... I've just rescued Jeannette Aster from the puffy/promo "improvements" made by (presumably) the article's subject [8]. But that one also needs better refs too and perhaps an extra set of eyes. Voceditenore (talk) 10:57, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! I did an additional round of little touch-ups. It looks better now, though indeed it could use third-party citations and some explanatory dates, as well as a thorough copyedit both for sense and to clean out any leftover trivia. By the way, you might want to make a separate thread on the Jeannette Aster article, to generate more interest. Softlavender (talk) 21:19, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Donizetti operas that need some eyes

A newish editor started "revamping" the following operas a few months ago:

• La straniera
• Pia de' Tolomei
• Maria de Rudenz
• Imelda de' Lambertazzi
• Fausta (opera)
• Marino Faliero (opera)

My impression was that there was an awful lot of potential original research, personal opinion, and unreferenced claims being added. The editor responsible has been rather aggressive but has now been indefinitely blocked, so it's safe to wade in. Note that Fausta has already had multiple revisions deleted because of copyvio from the editor in question. There may be more in the others. Volunteers? Voceditenore (talk) 21:42, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Through it maybe an off-topic, but... A sad misprint has crept into Article *Poliuto that should be fixed. In section "Synopsis", Mitilene, capital of Lesbos Island in North Aegean Region, is mentioned as a place of action, instead of Melitene, a region in the north of Armenia Minor (modern Malatya). 212.34.225.50 (talk) 09:14, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Rappresentatione di Anima, et di Corpo

Help! Rappresentatione di Anima, et di Corpo was claimed by the composer to have been the first opera, but our article doesn't even have an English translation of the title, a location of first performance, something about the topic. I could dig, but have some other projects. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:07, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I'll have a go at this tomorrow, Gerda. There's quite a lot written about it, but the article needs a fair amount of work. It premiered in Rome by the way. Voceditenore (talk) 17:31, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Almanacco Amadeus – Che disastro!

It's disappeared again. All links now redirect to this site. I'm keeping an eye out to see if the almanacco re-surfaces, but so far it's nowhere to be found on the new site. Grrrr! Voceditenore (talk) 15:49, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Pagliacci trivia

I have just reverted an IP who re-added the massive and almost entirely unreferenced "In popular culture section". In my edit summary I referred to the discussion on the talk page from 2010 which had a clear consensus for the removal of sections of that type. Members might want to keep an eye on the article and the talk page. Voceditenore (talk) 08:20, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Telemann 250 years

.. that he died 25 June 1767, soon! He composed many operas, incomplete list here, all blue links are stubs. I volunteer for expanding Don Quichotte, based on German, - anybody else? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:53, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

this serves as inspiration: pieces that have been staged in the last 100 years in the town Magdeburg, connected to him. Theater Magdeburg would also be nice, and expanding Magdeburger Telemann-Festtage. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:43, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi Gerda. I've turned Theater Magdeburg blue, in a bare-bones sort of way. But I'm immersed in 19th-century Naples at the moment, so I shall have to give Herr Telemann's works a miss . Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:36, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Most of Don Quichotte auf der Hochzeit des Comacho was not created in 2012 but just now ;) - I started the librettist, expansion welcome. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:38, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I know, Gerda, but the list at the top is for newly created articles, not DYKs or expansions of old articles. That's why I removed it from there. Voceditenore (talk) 14:20, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

PS I've re-added mention of the opera at the New article list via adding Daniel Schiebeler which is a new article. Voceditenore (talk) 14:26, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for adding, but now I really feel like I have to expand him now, instead of just making the ugly red link go away, and expand later ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:34, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, if you would enjoy expanding it, of course, go for it. But there's nothing wrong with a short but accurate entry that provides the basic facts and references which allow the reader to find out more. Such entries are perfectly valid and encyclopedic. Voceditenore (talk) 15:12, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I enjoy saying that he wrote the libretto based on the original, - such little details that make a person who died more than 200 years ago, more accessible. - I'd have a harder time with Ruth Siewert, - for the moment see just long lists of places, no music but Erda. Help welcome. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:21, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Almost an opera: Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher

Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher: I saw a fascinating production at the Frankfurt Opera. As it is called a dramatic oratorio, I gave it an infobox Musical composition. Or should it be Opera? Anyway, a poor IP was blocked for reverting several people who reverted it. I feel sorry for the IP. What do others think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:29, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

I think it was a fantastic move by Ritchie, the blocking admin. We could do with less IPs who go about acting like idiots. Cassianto^Talk 14:53, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

"As it is called a dramatic oratorio, I gave it an infobox Musical composition. Or should it be Opera?" I don't really follow the logic here. Neither dramatic oratorios nor operas automatically get those boxes added to their articles.Smeat75 (talk) 15:20, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "automatic". It takes the effort of editors. - Look for Giulio Cesare on top. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:05, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Several operas were staged by David Hermann, - mentioned in his article: Ascanio in Alba, Rigoletto, Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher, Macbeth, Věc Makropulos, Les Troyens, Boris Godunov, Das Rheingold, Rusalka, La traviata, Der Diktator, Das geheime Königreich. Compare. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:49, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I've added and clarified the information about the Rossellini production staged at the Teatro San Carlo in 1953 and the subsequent release of it as a film. The original wording in the article was misleading, unclear, and unreferenced. The issue of oratorios staged as if they were operas is a common one. Semele, technically an oratorio but almost invariably now staged as an opera, is a case in point. If it were me I'd use the opera box, with "oratorio" as the genre/type and include only the librettist and date and place of the premiere. I say that because the opera box has more apt labels, e.g. "libretto" instead of "text", and "premiere" instead of the ambiguous "performed". Having said all that, the atmosphere is sufficiently poisonous at the article that I would leave out any sort of box. It's not worth the aggro. Voceditenore (talk) 09:29, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

RfC regarding the WP:Lead guideline -- the first sentence

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Lead section#Request for comment on parenthetical information in first sentence. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Fylbecatulous talk 11:49, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Siri Thornhill

Siri Thornhill (or a user of her - full - name) updated her article, which then looked unsourced. I simply reverted, and am traveling. Please watch. Yes, the article was certainly dated, but old refs are better than a singer's website ;) - If she now uses her full name, it could be moved. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:08, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on it, Gerda. Having said that, the original version is pretty dire too. It's basically a program bio sourced to other official bios. There is not a single truly independent source, not a single independent review. The bach-cantatas site, on which this article is overwhelmingly based, is an unsuitable reference for these biographies. Frankly, I think its use should be avoided. Thornhill herself contributed to her bio on bach-cantatas, and in general they are simply copy pastes/direct translations from official bios. Voceditenore (talk) 07:51, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

PS I've also added a notice on Talk:Siri Thornhill indicating that the copyright violation (verbatim pasted from her website) has been removed and that future additions which are copyvios will be summarily removed. Voceditenore (talk) 07:57, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, - it's not new to me but as I said before, I was on my way out. Now in the train, I can improve a bit, before turning to another wonderful soprano. Some biographical information will always rely on the subject's information. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:08, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Chemnitz

Chemnitz has an Opernhaus Chemnitz, and (as of today) Theater Chemnitz. Do we still need the article on the house? It has a lot of technical info in German, but is just a stub here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:28, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, Gerda, I just got BOLD and redirected Opernhaus Chemnitz to Theater Chemnitz. There is nothing to stop anyone in the future creating separate articles on all three of its main venues, but for now this seems like a sensible solution. In any case, it's useful to have an all-encompassing article for the overall organization. I did the same thing with Theater Magdeburg. These sorts of German theater articles have to be carefully worded, because the municipal and state "Theaters" in Germany are often umbrella organizations administering multiple companies and venues. When that is the case, it needs to be made clear to the reader. Otherwise it gets very confusing. Voceditenore (talk) 15:04, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, very helpful! I recently expanded also Theater Münster, Theater Bonn and Stadttheater Minden, - all just a beginning, but better than a red link. Couldn't believe that the first house boldly built in Germany after World War II and the house in the temporary capital had just one-liners for articles. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:09, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Just noticed this thread and wanted to ask Gerda Arendt: Is there any evidence that the town was once called Karl-Marx-Stadt? - kosboot (talk) 23:45, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

We have an article on Chemnitz. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:45, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

It was called that within the living memory of most adults, including myself. If you feel it needs a reliably published source, I'm sure you could find it (and the restoration of the earlier name) mentioned in any book dealing with Die Wende. --Hegvald (talk) 01:17, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Tagged and short articles

I often link to articles without looking, but now I looked and found several core articles tagged for referencing, for example Bayreuth Festival, Der Ring des Nibelungen, La Scala, Liceu. Help? - Maggio Musicale Fiorentino is stubby, compared to its Italian version. Badisches Staatstheater Karlsruhe, Opernhaus Düsseldorf. Help? - All these articles are linked from one short article on a singer. What will our readers think, linking from tag to tag? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

More: Vienna State Opera --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:09, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

A soprano with many tags: Bidu Sayão. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:06, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Monteverdi Peer Review.

User:Brianboulton and I have sought to significantly expand, and improve the quality of, the article on Claudio Monteverdi and would be very grateful for any comments at the Peer Review which we have just launched here. Many thanks, Smerus (talk) 16:13, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Women in Red's new initiative: #1day1woman

		Women in Red is pleased to introduce... A new initiative for worldwide online coverage: #1day1woman
		Create articles on any day of any month Cover women and their works in any field of interest Feel free to add articles in other languages, too Social media hashtag campaign: #1day1woman (To subscribe: Women in Red/English language list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Ipigott (talk) 10:56, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Bayreuth singer links

Re: this change - It looks as if the Bayreuth Festival changed their database, without redirects. Well, I should probably referenced by Kutsch/Riemens to start with, but the additional info (which role performed when) is easier to read on the festival page, - but only when you don't get a 404 error. What can we do? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:13, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Gerda, I'm afraid they all have to be changed by hand using the new databank list here. This is a list of all the WP articles with links to bayreuther-festspiele.de. This is the same problem we had when Almanacco Amadeus moved from .net to .eu and back to .net. Initially we had to fix them all by hand and then Scarabocchio made a template for it which made things easier when they switiched back. Alas! the Almanacco now appears to be gone forever . Voceditenore (talk) 13:47, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Claudio Monteverdi for FA

Following a very helpful peer review, Brianboulton and I have resolved to subject the article to an FA candidature, and welcome all and any constructive comment. --Smerus (talk) 16:47, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Richard Wagner#Influence on cinema

A discussion on this topic is taking place on the Richard Wagner talk page. Smerus (talk) 06:47, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Tenore bombardato!

An editor who was banned from adding maintenance tags in April and subsequently retired, sang a tag-bombing swan song at Tenor. The article needs work, but this is truly excessive. Anyone care to take a look? There are two causes for concern which should not be ignored, however. The tags claim copyvio from

1. Fallows, David ; Jander, Owen; Forbes, Elizabeth; Steane, J.B.; Harris, Ellen T. & Waldman, Gerald (2001). "Tenor". Grove Music Online. If anyone has a subscription to Grove Music Online, can you check for copyvio or email me a copy of the article so I can check?

2. Boldrey, Richard (1994). Guide to Operatic Roles and Arias. Caldwell Publishing Company. ISBN 9781877761645. I'm rather dubious about this one having been copied. The tag-bomber clearly hasn't a clue what's in the book and appears to be guessing that it was copied.

Voceditenore (talk) 18:25, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of composers who died before age 50

Input welcomed. Softlavender (talk) 01:55, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Interesting discussion. Voceditenore (talk) 08:51, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Follow-up discussion (after the AfD resulted in a delete), see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music#WP:Articles for deletion/List of composers who died before age 50. Please comment there, not here. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:51, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Joan Carroll (soprano)

I started Joan Carroll (soprano) because she premiered one of the song cycles by Wilhelm Killmayer (Leontyne Price premiered another). She was the first Lulu in the US, but I don't find (at least in a superficial search) any biographical information. Help? Some of the people with whom she was interviewed (one woman, 11 men), died recently, I hope she's alive, but do we know? I am also not happy with the sources for the Santa Fe Lulu premiere in our article, - anything better? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:49, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Found one bit! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:52, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Gerda, she has entry in the Großes Sängerlexikon here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:58, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, - I should have looked there first but somehow forgot that it covers not only German singers ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:07, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

According to this article in the New York Times, she and Rudolf Heinrich were divorced and he had remarried by 1971. Voceditenore (talk) 15:22, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

And according to this snippet from Time Magazine in 1962, she was "Born Joan Crugman, the daughter of a Philadelphia portrait photographer, she had studied at Curtis Institute". Voceditenore (talk) 15:31, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

You are great! I meant to create a stub just to avoid a red link ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:47, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

How do I cite such a snippet? - It carries amazing detail. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:04, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Gerda. I'd use:

Time (9 February 1962). "Music: Lulu from East Berlin", p. 64.

Here's the link to the article in the Time archives [9], but you need a subscription to see the whole thing. It is definitely the same article as the Google Books result—I cross checked the text snippets. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 05:55, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Need eyes on two articles

• Whistle register. The "Uses" sections contains two examples of female pop vocalists who use this register with references to a reliable source. There is edit notice at the top of the "Uses" section:

<!--Please do NOT add examples of singers who use the Whistle register without a reliable cited source verifying it. Unreferenced additions will be removed.-->

Despite the notice, when I checked the article today 35 names had been added by several users. Virtually all unreferenced, and the ones that are referenced are to fan sites and YouTube. Several of the additions don't even have WP articles. I've restored the article to the original version, but it needs to be watched more carefully.

• Matthias Manasi. A conductor who allegedly specialises in opera, and is frankly only marginally notable, if at all. The article is almost certainly an autobiography, given that none of the personal details previously in it are published anywhere. It was full of self-serving, misleading, and some cases blatantly false claims with no references to back them up. I just reverted again the latest attempt to re-add them. The multiple red-linked editors are almost certainly socks of the same person. Most of them have been blocked at Commons and several also on the German Wikipedia. The Talk page at the German version of the article is most illuminating. At the rate new socks are being created, it needs watching all the time.

Voceditenore (talk) 08:10, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Is it worth sending the conductor article to AfD? We don't even have an article on Nickel City Opera, so I'm not sure why its music director rates an article, and I'm not seeing much else. Softlavender (talk) 08:19, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Softlavender, be my guest :-). I must say I've been sorely tempted, although the AfD will no doubt elicit the entire sock-zoo. I can't find any reviews or articles about him. The performances I've listed were the only ones I could verify. The two Italian performances were with what is basically a pick-up chamber orchestra in Naples. The PuntaClassic "festival" is only marginally notable even in Uruguay. He conducted one opera for them, despite falsely claiming to be the music director of the entire festival for two years. The recording of L'occasione fa il ladro where he plays the harpsichord (but is not the conductor) is the only one I could find. There is no indication whatsoever that his putative solo recording of piano music [10] even exists. I suspect the label was invented and it's basically a series of YouTube videos. I've removed it. Voceditenore (talk) 08:47, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

I honestly don't feel like personally AfDing it, but I would chime in if it were AfDed (I now have the article on my watch list). The socks can easily be dealt with via the {{notavote}} template and tags (and also filing at SPI if desired). If the article is as problematical as you present, I think probably the only way of resolving it is going to be AfD. Softlavender (talk) 08:55, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

The question is, does he meet the notability guideline(s), or not? Softlavender (talk) 11:25, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

I've found a couple of more performances (no reviews, just on concert descriptions). He might well scrape a pass at AfD, and I can't be fagged to go through all the palaver. The article is now in a non-promotional and accurate state. For now, I'm inclined to just keep on watch and revert the socks. However, if they try it again, I'm going to start an SPI. Voceditenore (talk) 11:30, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

If there are no reviews, and no substantial coverage (say, at least two non-trivial reviews) from reliable independent third-party sources (and no, the Nickel City bio is not independent or even reliable), then he doesn't even pass WP:GNG. What is the specific notability guideline? WP:MUSICBIO? If he does not meet either of those I will be happy to do the AfD myself, and alert the closing admin about all the COI socks/meats. Softlavender (talk) 11:39, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

As far as I can see, Softlavender, he fails to pass either of those, frankly. The only reasonably notable orchestras which he has conducted are Vienna Mozart Orchestra and Liepāja Symphony Orchestra (both of which are second-tier) and that's only as a guest conductor for one concert each. All the other orchestras are distinctly third, and even fourth-tier organizations. Please go ahead and AfD it. Voceditenore (talk) 12:07, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

• UPDATE: Now at AfD: WP:Articles for deletion/Matthias Manasi. -- Softlavender (talk) 12:19, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

• UPDATE#2: Quite a lovely collection of socks has now been blocked. Voceditenore (talk) 10:59, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

• UPDATE #3: The AFD was closed as delete, but the two articles were not salted, so it would be very good if people could put those two titles on their watchlists in case the sockfarm tries to recreate them. Softlavender (talk) 01:31, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Various composer categories nominated for deletion

The discussion is at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 October 1#1 and 2 article categories named after composers. Voceditenore (talk) 06:42, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Did Lotte Lehmann have a daughter? [SOLVED]

An IP just edited Lotte Lehmann to say she had a daughter (as opposed to "no children") [11]. I reverted it, but I'm seeing info in non-RS NNDB that she had a daughter named Naomi. I can't offhand find any RS about the matter one way or another. My solution has been to add cn tags to both sentences about children and purported stepchildren (how many?), but it would be nice to have factual information. She died in the 1970s; if nothing else, surely there are some obituaries somewhere? Softlavender (talk) 08:51, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Well, Voceditenore took care of that in short order. Thanks very much! Softlavender (talk) 10:14, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

You're very welcome, Softlavender. In the process I found an interesting bit about this putative "daughter" at the Lotte Lehmann League. Apparently, her companion, Frances Holden, refused to allow Alan Jefferson access to Lehmann's papers for his biography of Lehmann because...

Jefferson had published a piece about a woman claiming Lehmann was her mother. His apparent gullibility did not assure Frances the kind of accuracy she would want. Famous people gather their unfair share of adoring loonies. Frances gave me an entire correspondence from a woman who began some letters, “Mother Lotte” and in others declared Lehmann to be her “co-mother.” She wrote John Coveney at Angel Records this time revealing herself to be the daughter of Claudia Muzio (1889 – 1936) – requesting that this mother's records be re-issued; she needed the royalties. Coveney sent the letter to Lehmann with a cover note: “And I was the result of an ancient union between Gustav Mahler and Coco Chanel.”

Best, Voceditenore (talk) 10:54, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Good God. Softlavender (talk) 10:58, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

If anyone has a subscription to the archives of Opera, Jefferson's piece on a putative daughter named "Eugenie" appeared in the September 1989 issue and was titled "Lotte Lehmann—a secret life?" but appears to be a reprint of the original article. Voceditenore (talk) 11:30, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Yet more... The daughter named "Naomi" on NNDB obviously comes from an old version version of the WP article with this completely spurious addition in 2012 (later removed). The editor in question was basically spamming the website of a non-notable composer (Eric Nedelman), by claiming that he is the grandson of Lehmann and here, claiming that he is a cousin of Irving Green and here claiming that Nedelman had composed a "tribute" to Angela Harry. The editor's final spam capolavoro (but not related to Nedelman) was this. Geesh! Voceditenore (talk) 12:00, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Oooops. Wow. To be honest, sometimes I've found NNDB to be useful, if only as a starting place for a possible fact. I had no idea that they cribbed from crap on Wikipedia though. Good to know. Softlavender (talk) 12:06, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

I'd never use it for anyone who already has a Wikipedia article. It's pretty clear where they scrape the vast majority of their "data" from, and they clearly don't "curate" it despite allegedly having a "curator". It miiiight be useful as a starting point for someone who doesn't already have an article, but probably no more than amateur genealogy sites, which can also be pretty awful. Voceditenore (talk) 13:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Apollon Theater, Syros

A while back I put in a request for an article on this Greek Opera house and it seems that a user named Sila.1994 created one back in September of this year (2017), the article looks like a good overview of the history of the theater, however it's also clear from reading it that English was not the authors first language. It might need revision by a more experienced editor. I am currently embroiled in some other projects at the moment and will not be able to give it the time required.

Graham1973 (talk) 14:25, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

I did a few basic things, but same: other projects. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:52, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

It would be useful if the article mentioned the role of opera in this house. As it is, "opera" isn't mentioned there at all. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:11, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

... only Rigoletto and "the Traviata" melodram, - I removed the link, not sure it meant the opera --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:59, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

List of opera running times (website)

I found this website which estimates the running times of various operas (minus the various intermissions/intervals, which of course add extra time if it's a live performance), and it's pretty cool and helpful: http://www.theopera101.com/operas/runningtimes.html. -- Softlavender (talk) 01:48, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Women in Red November contest open to all

		Announcing Women in Red's November 2017 prize-winning world contest Contest details: create biographical articles for women of any country or occupation in the world: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/The World Contest|November 2017 WiR Contest]] Read more about how Women in Red is overcoming the gender gap: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red|WikiProject Women in Red]]
		(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language mailing list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list)

--Ipigott (talk) 15:56, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Madama Butterfly: new "Racism and Sexism Controversy" section

Someone added a new section and it wasn't encyclopedic. I've moved the new section to the talk page so experienced editors can decide what to do with it: Talk:Madama Butterfly#Moving this section here for now. -- Softlavender (talk) 07:07, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Article needing eyes, help, etc.

Valerian Ruminski. Completely uncited. I just now took out a gigantic roles-resume. Softlavender (talk) 16:31, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

• Seems to be largely taken from here [12]. And therefore eligible i think for flagging as a WP:COPYVIO.Smerus (talk) 17:54, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Given the nature of the text, i.e. basically "laundry lists", it probably doesn't qualify for a full copyvio flag. But it needs copyediting. He's reasonably notable, sang 23 times at the Met, albeit in comprimario roles [13]. I'll have a look at it later and maybe trim and add a couple of refs. His association with Matthias Manasi has not escaped my attention, but the Manasi sock zoo does not appear to be active at the Ruminski article. Voceditenore (talk) 07:48, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

In terms of the Matthias Manasi connection, I did indeed check into that, and this article appears totally unrelated. I ran into the Valerian Ruminski article because I was Googling info on Nickel City Opera (where Manasi is the brand-new music director as of this season) because of the sockfarm. When I saw that Ruminski, who is Nickel City Opera's founder and artistic director, had an uncited and rather messy wiki article, I looked into it and its edit-history closely -- but there really is no comparison or crossover. In fact, the Ruminski article has languished for more than 10 years -- it didn't even mention Nickel City Opera (I added that yesterday), and a massive 2,000-byte NPOV BLP-vio was allowed to stand for more than 2 years until an IP removed it. Needs some updating. Softlavender (talk) 08:02, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Softlavender, I assume you are referring to this as the BLP violation. It was in the sense that it was unreferenced and undue, but its substance was true and even made CBC News. See this article. Not that I'm suggesting it should go in the WP article. It was a bit of a teapot tempest, but it mightily pissed off Opera Lyra at the time. Voceditenore (talk) 08:56, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed all that in my searches. If the article were fully fledged and completely updated and so on, it might pass UNDUE as a small mention that he was fired from Lyra because of an inappropriate Facebook post which was publicly protested. Softlavender (talk) 09:03, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

I've been working on the article yesterday and today and I think it's now about as "fledged" as it's ever going to be. But I don't think it's appropriate to add this minor kerfuffle to the article. Even the CBC News article was for local Ottawa news, and it didn't seem to impact his career at all. He's since sung with several Canadian opera companies, although obviously not Opera Lyra which went bust a year after the episode. It's something one might put in a book-length biography of major singer, but not here, and not for a singer at this level. Voceditenore (talk) 11:34, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you ever so much for all of your work on the article. My only comment would be that the list of roles implies that those are all he has done, when clearly he has done a lot more; I think we should word it to that effect. One could also argue that the awards and the concert performances should be re-added if they are citable, but if no one wants to research those, that's the breaks. In terms of the incident, I totally agree it does not belong in an article of this length. Thanks again. Softlavender (talk) 19:45, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Cheryl Studer -- needs eyes, cleanup, help

Bloated and often uncited article written entirely by three SPAs (possible socks of each other). Noticed it as one of the SPAs tried to add it to the Rosenkavalier article. Any help trimming, cleaning up, citing, etc., would be appreciated. Softlavender (talk) 19:50, 30 October 2017 (UTC)