Talk:Mustafa Kemal Atatürk: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 13:24, 8 February 2019

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mustafa Kemal Atatürk article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17: 90 days

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 23, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed
December 27, 2007	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
August 7, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

Current status: Former featured article candidate

Template:Vital article

Turkey: Politics B‑class Top‑importance

	Turkey portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Turkish politics.

Biography: Military / Politics and Government B‑class

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Top-importance).

Military history: Biography / World War I B‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

B

This article has been rated as B-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	World War I task force

Politics B‑class Mid‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Template:WP1.0

Albania B‑class Mid‑importance

	Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is part of the WikiProject Albania, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Albania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.AlbaniaWikipedia:WikiProject AlbaniaTemplate:WikiProject AlbaniaAlbania articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 16 dates. [show]

October 29, 2004, May 19, 2005, October 29, 2005, October 29, 2006, October 29, 2007, October 29, 2008, November 10, 2008, October 29, 2009, November 10, 2009, October 29, 2010, November 10, 2010, November 10, 2012, November 10, 2013, November 10, 2014, November 10, 2015, and November 10, 2016

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mustafa Kemal Atatürk article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17: 90 days

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2014

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

[musˈtäfä ceˈmäl ätäˈtyɾc] ---> [musˈtafa keˈmal ataˈtyɾc]

Nevermind past request, i get it, K is written as C, but it might as well be written as K

ɑ is the right letter for a in Mustafa Kemal, there is no ä in turkish ipa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_Turkish,_Azerbaijani_and_Turkmen and K is better than C, turkish learners may be confused, because C is pronounced DJ

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130503043711/http://hemshin.org/books/TheHemshin-Full.pdf to http://hemshin.org/books/TheHemshin-Full.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:16, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I used to edit articles but haven't been doing so in a long time. A lot has changed ever since, so I am not sure how to add new content. I would like to add that there is a small monument in honor of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk located in Caracas, Venezuela. I have a brief description of the statue and its place, and a picture of it.

Douglas V:. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Douglasvillarreal (talk • contribs) 01:28, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2018

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the text, it is written as " his biographer Andrew Mango". Wording suggest that Ataturk has asked / assigned Mango to write his biography. Although Andrew Mango has written his biography, Mango is not assigned by him to write his biography. Hence I suggest to remove the word "his" from the sentence. Tanerdan (talk) 09:32, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done DannyS712 (talk) 05:23, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Origin

He is thought to be of Albanian origin by some scholars,^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]

Read the source, please: ...since local Muslims of Albanian and Slav origin who had no ethnic connection with Turkey spoke Albanian, Serbo-Croat or Bulgarian, at least so long as they remained in their native land. But in looks Ataturk resembled local Albanians and Slavs... Do not delete sourced content. Thank you.Jingiby (talk) 12:18, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

^ Andrew Mango Atatürk: The Biography of the Founder of Modern Turkey, Overlook Press, 2002, ISBN 978-1-58567-334-6, p. 25; p.27. "Feyzullah's family is said to have come from the country near Vodina (now Edhessa in western Greek Macedonia). The surname Sofuzade, meaning 'son of a pious man', suggests that the ancestors of Zübeyde and Ali Rıza had a similar background. Cemil Bozok, son of Salih Bozok, who was a distant cousin of Atatürk and, later, his ADC, claims to have been related to both Ali Rıza's and Zübeyde's families. This would mean that the families of Atatürk's parents were interrelated. Cemil Bozok also notes that his paternal grandfather, Safer Efendi, was of Albanian origin. This may have a bearing on the vexed question of Atatürk's ethnic origin. Atatürk's parents and relatives allhttps://archive.is/o/X8Efz used Turkish as their mother tongue. This suggests that some at least of their ancestors had originally come from Turkey, since local Muslims of Albanian and Slav origin who had no ethnic connection with Turkey spoke Albanian, Serbo-Croat or Bulgarian, at least so long as they remained in their native land., But in looks Ataturk resembled local Albanians and Slavs.[...] But there is no evidence that either Ali Riza or Zübeyde was descended from such Turkish nomads." page 28; "It is much more likely that Atatürk inherited his looks from his Balkan ancestors.[...] But Albanians and Slavs are likely to have figured among his ancestors."
^ Lou Giaffo: Albania: Eye of the Balkan Vortex^{[page needed]}
^ Jackh, Ernest, The Rising Crescent, (Goemaere Press, 2007), p. 31, Turkish mother and Albanian father
^ Isaac Frederick Marcosson, Turbulent years, Ayer Publishing, 1969, p. 144.
^ Richmond, Yale, From Da to Yes: understanding the East Europeans, (Intercultural Press Inc., 1995), 212.

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Mustafa Kemal golden scoop political caricature of single party system.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:51, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 February 2019

It has been proposed in this section that Mustafa Kemal Atatürk be renamed and moved to Mustafa Kemal.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk → Mustafa Kemal – "Atatürk" is an honorific title that is frequently used as if it were his surname, but it is not part of his actual name. It's the same reason our article on the founder of Christianity is called Jesus and not "Jesus Christ". Lovesaver (talk) 05:43, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Atatürk" is his surname. It's not a honorific title. His honorific titles was Gazi and Paşa. - Ullierlich (talk) 06:18, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and probably speedy close - really this is a very major article and shouldn't have a move template on it for 7 days for something so badly researched. Assuming good faith from new editor, but honestly, a RM on a major article requires references to titling guidelines and copious evidence from WP:RS. Sorry. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:09, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
+ The law passed on 24 November 1934 about his surname on Turkish Wikisource. ("The law about the surname given to our president whose first name Kemal") - Ullierlich (talk) 10:31, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

oppose Atatürk was his surname. Every Turkish citizen had to take on a surname according the Surname Law (Turkey). With him it was special that his surname was given by the National assembly with the law 2587 of 24 November 1934.^[1] Maybe you refer to this. But even though the surname was given by the assembly, it is a surname. Lean Anael (talk) 13:05, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, and I favor a speedy close per User:In ictu oculi. 94.21.238.64 (talk) 13:24, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

^ "Kemal Ataturk | Biography, Reforms, Death, & Facts". Encyclopedia Britannica. Retrieved 2019-02-08.

[1] Andrew Mango Atatürk: The Biography of the Founder of Modern Turkey, Overlook Press, 2002, ISBN 978-1-58567-334-6, p. 25; p.27. "Feyzullah's family is said to have come from the country near Vodina (now Edhessa in western Greek Macedonia). The surname Sofuzade, meaning 'son of a pious man', suggests that the ancestors of Zübeyde and Ali Rıza had a similar background. Cemil Bozok, son of Salih Bozok, who was a distant cousin of Atatürk and, later, his ADC, claims to have been related to both Ali Rıza's and Zübeyde's families. This would mean that the families of Atatürk's parents were interrelated. Cemil Bozok also notes that his paternal grandfather, Safer Efendi, was of Albanian origin. This may have a bearing on the vexed question of Atatürk's ethnic origin. Atatürk's parents and relatives allhttps://archive.is/o/X8Efz used Turkish as their mother tongue. This suggests that some at least of their ancestors had originally come from Turkey, since local Muslims of Albanian and Slav origin who had no ethnic connection with Turkey spoke Albanian, Serbo-Croat or Bulgarian, at least so long as they remained in their native land., But in looks Ataturk resembled local Albanians and Slavs.[...] But there is no evidence that either Ali Riza or Zübeyde was descended from such Turkish nomads." page 28; "It is much more likely that Atatürk inherited his looks from his Balkan ancestors.[...] But Albanians and Slavs are likely to have figured among his ancestors."

[2] Lou Giaffo: Albania: Eye of the Balkan Vortex^{[page needed]}

[3] Jackh, Ernest, The Rising Crescent, (Goemaere Press, 2007), p. 31, Turkish mother and Albanian father

[4] Isaac Frederick Marcosson, Turbulent years, Ayer Publishing, 1969, p. 144.

[5] Richmond, Yale, From Da to Yes: understanding the East Europeans, (Intercultural Press Inc., 1995), 212.

[6] "Kemal Ataturk | Biography, Reforms, Death, & Facts". Encyclopedia Britannica. Retrieved 2019-02-08.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[1]

@@ Line 92: / Line 92: @@
 '''oppose''' Atatürk was his surname. Every Turkish citizen had to take on a surname according the [[Surname Law (Turkey)|Surname Law (Turkey)]]. With him it was special that his surname was given by the National assembly with the law 2587 of 24 November 1934.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.britannica.com/biography/Kemal-Ataturk|title=Kemal Ataturk {{!}} Biography, Reforms, Death, & Facts|website=Encyclopedia Britannica|language=en|access-date=2019-02-08}}</ref> Maybe you refer to this. But even though the surname was given by the assembly, it is a surname.
 [[User:Lean Anael|Lean Anael]] ([[User talk:Lean Anael|talk]]) 13:05, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
+:'''Oppose''' per [[WP:COMMONNAME]], and I favor a speedy close per [[User:In ictu oculi]]. [[Special:Contributions/94.21.238.64|94.21.238.64]] ([[User talk:94.21.238.64|talk]]) 13:24, 8 February 2019 (UTC)