Talk:Hummus

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Houmous

I would argue that the spelling houmous has become the predominant one in the UK, despite what the dictionaries say. All three major supermarkets use this spelling on their product packaging, as well as major restaurant chains like Nando's. Maxí (talk) 17:03, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Agreed...another example of Americans ruining the original word. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.204.77.144 (talk) 04:20, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

I have seldom seen the 'hummus' spelling in the UK, except on products of American origin. Literally every supermarket I can find has their products branded 'houmous': Sainsbury's, Morrison's, Asda, Aldi, Tesco, &c. I suggest editing the section on spelling to show the 'houmous' is the most common spelling in the United Kingdom. Oniony (talk) 13:32, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

All the transliterations we are seeing in this article are misleading and irrelevant, since the correct pronunciation uses the gutteral "ch" sound. Rather than argue about the correct transliteration which is somewhat impossible to agree on given it's a transliteration, you should figure out a way to present it in such a way that people don't keep saying humus or hummus and sounding like complete idiots.185.186.250.14 (talk)

"houmus is a Middle Eastern dish made from chick peas, sometimes spelt houmous.The Financial Times Style Guide" Colin Inman

The point is, Hoummus is Arabic for chick peas, and the vowel ou rhymes with cook, book, look NOT with sum thumb come The gutteral h at the beginning does not matter - there are three different variants in Arabic. If you are talking English it is not so important to get the consonant right, but the Style Guide is authoritative, for UK English. The American spelling misleads people to use the wrong vowel. RPSM (talk) 18:56, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

The Dictionary referenced does actually list both terms, so the article is inaccurate Houmous has always been the predominate term in the UK. Bellow is a comprehensive list of every uk supermarket listing it as Houmous. British Dictionary Collins also lists it as the main term: , waitrose: , morrisons : , m&s: , the daily mail , Aldi uk: , lidl uk: , coop: sainsburys , asda , Tesco — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:2FC5:EE00:8574:949F:DCF2:558E (talk) 09:34, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

not Levantine

I know, this word was chosen to appease Israelis. But it is simply a fact that Hummus is a food of the Arab world, not just the Levant. Hummus itself is an Arabic word, not Hebrew or anything else. حمص / Hummus means "chickpeas" in English, it has no meaning in Hebrew besides of naming this Arab food. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.85.142.70 (talk) 19:03, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

It is called Levantine in reference to its origin, not as a delimiter of its spread since. As a parallel, spaghetti is eaten in many places outside of Italy but it is still an Italian food. --Khajidha (talk) 22:45, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Agree with Khajidha that the Levant is sufficiently broad as a geographic region to include northeast African and eastern Mediterranean region, shown here. The key to the geographic origin of hummus is the geographic origin of chickpeas, which – because chickpeas were cultivated in the Levant some 10,000 years ago – means the precise origin of making hummus is undetermined, and could have been anywhere from Turkey to Egypt, with many countries in between claiming its origin, according to this BBC report. --Zefr (talk) 23:57, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Zefr, thanks for adding the BBC citation. A couple of comments, if I may: The term "Levant" in contemporary usage generally doesn't include Turkey or Egypt. If you look at the map you linked to in the context of the Levant article, it notes that the wider area, equivalent to the eastern Mediterranean, is a "broad, historic meaning". The citation given says:

More recently the term "Levant" has developed a much more precise and particular geographic meaning to designate the lands (Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, and Jordan) and islands (Cyprus) of the eastern Mediterranean. This specific meaning is probably a product of the French Mandate of 1920 to 1946, which called Syria and Lebanon the "Levant States." --Michael Gagarin, The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Greece and Rome, Volume 1.

If you want to indicate an area that includes Turkey and Egypt, then "Levant" isn't the best term to use, as it won't normally be understood that way. I noted that the BBC article doesn't use the word at all.

Secondly, I think you're correct that "the precise origin of making hummus is undetermined..." and that is generally supported by the BBC reference (though some people do give opinions about it). However, regardless of the meaning of "Levant", the sentence you added: "Following generally the geographic origin of cultivation and cuisines of chickpeas, the origin of hummus may have occurred in any of several Levantine countries dating back centuries" I think is not supported by the source. It seems to imply that the origin of hummus bi tahini can be determined as located somewhere in the Levant following or because that is the geographic origin of the prehistoric cultivation of chickpeas. While both may be true, the events occurred roughly ten thousand years apart, so no direct causal link can be made, and the BBC article doesn't make that claim. At the time of the development of hummus bi tahini sometime between the 13th and 15th centuries, chickpeas had been cultivated from Europe to India for several millenia. --IamNotU (talk) 16:08, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

As far as the OP's comment, presumably they want to change "is a Levantine dip" to "is an Arab dip", as they tried to do with Shawarma,[1] but can't because the article is edit-protected for that very reason. It seems to be related to the ideology of the "hummus wars" that the BBC article describes, and the general Arab-Israeli conflict. Whatever one's thoughts are about it, Wikipedia is not about to weigh in on that in the lead sentence and delcare hummus to be exclusively Arab, as that would not adhere to the neutral point of view policy. That policy doesn't mean that Wikipedia "remains neutral" - if the vast majority of reliable sources said that hummus was an Arab food, we could say that too. But they don't, so we need to present "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic". There is already the "Culture" section that touches on that issue, which could certainly be expanded. The OP is welcome to do so, following the general content policies. --IamNotU (talk) 16:20, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

IamNotU - fair points. Please go ahead and edit accordingly. --Zefr (talk) 17:09, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

There is no evidence that the development of hummus was independent of the Jewish population of the region, and there is good historical basis to assume that the development of hummus predates the arabization of the region. Additionally, the first documented consumption of hummus was among Egyptians, a group that does not identify as Arab. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.39.0 (talk) 18:52, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Chickpeas or Other Beans

The opening paragraph of the article says that the Hummus dip is “…made from cooked, mashed chickpeas or other beans…” This cannot be correct, the main ingredient of this dish can only be chickpeas. This is so by definition, as the Arabic word حُمُّص and its equivalent Hebrew word חומוס, describe the chickpea bean itself, and the hummus spread/dip dish obviously derives its name from the name of its main ingredient. The “Etymology and spelling” section of this articles acknowledges this fact, and in doing so introduces an ambiguity. As an aside, my interest in this article was raised by having eaten recently in a restaurant “lentil hummus” made purely of lentils plus seasoning; tasty but obviously incorrect as trade descriptions go. To call a spread prepared from other beans “hummus”, is akin to calling all makes of vacuum cleaners Hoover, and of course there are many other funny examples of such colloquial distortions. Greenme17 (talk) 11:21, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Egyptians like to make their hummus with fava beans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.39.0 (talk) 18:48, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2019

change "Spelling of the word in English can be inconsistent.[5] "Hummus" is the most common spelling in both American and British English.[6][1][2] The spelling "houmous" is however common enough in British English to be also listed as a less common spelling in some UK dictionaries but not, for example, in the Cambridge online dictionary.[1] Some US dictionaries also list other spellings such as humus, hommus, and hommos,[6] but not Merriam-Webster, for example.[7]"

to "Spelling of the word in English can be inconsistent.[5] "Hummus" is the most common spelling in both American English.[6][1][2] The spelling "Houmous" is however common in British English to be also listed as the most common spelling in some UK dictionaries and all major supermarkets. Some US dictionaries also list other spellings such as humus, hommus, and hommos,[6] but not Merriam-Webster, for example.[7]"

Examples bellow Main spelling in collins dictionary https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/houmous Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarket Tesco: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/260083981 Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarkets and major newspaper: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-4443364/Sainsbury-s-plunged-HOUMOUS-crisis.html Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarket Sainsburys: https://recipes.sainsburys.co.uk/recipes/snacks/houmous Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarket Marks and Spencer: https://corporate.marksandspencer.com/media/press-releases/archive/2007/15022007_marksspencerproductwithdrawal Houmous Spelling for Major uk supermarket Waitrose: https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/shop/Browse/Groceries/Fresh_and_Chilled/Cooked_Meats_Deli_and_Dips/Dips/Houmous

The section stating "less common spelling in some UK dictionaries but not, for example, in the Cambridge online dictionary.[1]" was removed because it was incorrect, Houmous is listed in this free online version of the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary, but this is a monolingual learner's dictionary not a British English dictionary. 2A00:23C4:2FC5:EE00:8574:949F:DCF2:558E (talk) 09:10, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

 Partly done: Regarding houmous, I removed the section stating "less common spelling in some UK dictionaries but not, for example, in the Cambridge online dictionary" because it was incorrect. I changed the wording of statements about what is the "most common spelling", because it was not specifically stated in the sources, to be about what the major dictionaries give as the primary spellings, which is.

I checked the major dictionaries, all of which list "hummus" as the primary spelling, including the American-published American Heritage Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, and Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary (via Dictionary.com), plus the British-published Oxford English Dictionary, second edition; Oxford Dictionaries, Cambridge Dictionary, and Collins English Dictionary. The "COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary" was the only one I found that gave houmous as the primary spelling, with humous or hummus as variants. Mentioning this in the article seems to be undue weight, given the many other citations that are all in agreement. I reduced the number of citations of dictionaries in the article, see WP:TOOMANYREFS.

The citations of local supermarket ads are not reliable sources for word usage, and would constitute original research, so I did not include them. Although it's not a reliable source, Google ngrams [2] shows that hummus is orders of magnitude more common than houmous. There doesn't appear to be sufficient reason, based on available reliable sources, to make a statement that houmous is verifiably the most common spelling in British English. --IamNotU (talk) 17:00, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

References

US and Europeans make a mistake with this dish

They blend olive oil into the dip. Authentic recipes do not do this. Hoummus is served with olive oil floating on top. Blending it into the dip just makes it oilier. Tastes heavy and is unhealthy. Some Lebanese bloggers point this out. For a reliable authority see Claudia Roden. Or any Arabic language video. There is already oil from the tahina. RPSM (talk) 19:28, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Made with chick peas or other beans

Hoummus is Arabic for chick pea and if Hoummus is on the menu in a restaurant, you can't serve other beans. If it's not a chick pea dip, it is not Hoummus. The point of leaving a few beans whole as a garnish is to signal which bean the dip is made from.

In the case of fava beans, the dip is called Foul meddamas. There is a Greek dip called fava made from yellow lentils. RPSM (talk) 19:47, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I've reverted the edit from 2015 [3] where this was added. It appears to be a case of an unsourced addition that WP:HIJACKed a source, as it's not found in the source, which was already in the article. --IamNotU (talk) 04:41, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Etymology of the Word: Hummus

Hello everyone,

Please help me post this information correctly (regrettably, I have NO time to learn how to do so).

The origin of the word borrowed for/ascribed to the chickpeas or garbanzo beans is by way of their preparation (when soaked in water overnight to soften with salt, a process which turns them "SOUR"!). The adjective word in Arabic for sour is: HAmuth (حامض). The SAME adjective word is used in Arabic's twin sister, Hebrew, where it used to be pronounced in the very SAME manner but modern Hebrew pronounced it as: HAmuts. a related Hebrew word is the HAmets (the LEAVENED substance-which, during the Jewish Passover Holiday, tradition requires meticulous burning thereof in each & e very Jewish household & the consumption of ONLY unleavened substance (i.e. bread, with the Passover unleavened bread version of which is Matsah [ding.] or Matsot [pl.]/Matzos-in Ashkenazi Hebrew spelling/pronunciation)commanded as the ONLY bread allowed for sonsumption during the 7 days of the observance of Passover to commemorate the exodus of the Israelites from the land of Egypt from bondage/slavery to freedom in a hurry, during which they had NO time to wait for the bread dough to rise-or, to leaven...

AK63 (talk) 09:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)