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== [[WP:DEDisruptive editing]] ==

Hi - look, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2008_Tibetan_unrest&type=revision&diff=997466244&oldid=997296744 this] was simply disruptive. I've already told you why the attribution wasn't needed, there are multiple RSes, and both they and we are saying 'the Chinese government claimed', not saying that the assertions are true. Your assertion that the SMH 'published a report from CCTV' is flat-out wrong - they published their own report, which mentioned stuff from the CCTV report, as well as other sources. I'm not using a template, but please consider this a warning - cut it out. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#006400;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#4B0082;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 17:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:51, 31 December 2020

Welcome!

Hello, Pasdecomplot! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! O3000 (talk) 12:32, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Pasdecomplot, you are invited to the Teahouse!

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Hi Pasdecomplot! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia.
Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from experienced editors like Naypta (talk).

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16:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

So sweet, and I'll rsvp as yes. Pasdecomplot (talk) 21:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Your thread has been archived

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Hi Pasdecomplot! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, Been sanctioned?, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread.


The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:00, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]


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"aligning left for easier reading again"

Hi. FYI: {{outdent}} or {{od}} will create an out-dented reply, that looks this:

A message

A reply
Another reply
Another reply
Another reply
It's getting crowded over here

Outdented reply after {{od}}

new intended reply to that
another reply

A new thread having nothing to do with the above

a reply to that

Also, typing four hyphens "----" will create a horizontal rule, like this:


And that lets you separate off one section from another. It's somewhere in between outdenting and starting a new subheader.

There's a script called WP:REPLYLINK that makes all this much easier. If you haven't already, go to preference->gadgets and check the box for "Install scripts without having to edit JavaScript files", which will activate the script installer button. Then go to WP:REPLYLINK and click "install". You'll then see a "reply" button after talk page comments, and you can click "reply" and write your message in the box, and it takes care of all the indenting for you so yo don't have to worry about it. Reply link was written by a volunteer editor and isn't perfect; in some threads it doesn't work; but most of the time it does work and makes communicating much, much easier. (There are lots of other scripts you also might find useful, listed at WP:USL.)

Oh and if you're wondering why we're using 1980s technology to communicate, see WP:FLOW and the links therein. HTH Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 17:27, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So cool. Really challenged by using a mobile system - makes looking for proper editing code while editing tough, especially w/o PC perks. Thanks Levivich! Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:38, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I didn't even notice you are editing on mobile. Bless your heart, that makes everything significantly more difficult! Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 17:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I hate editing by smartphone, especially when it decides all by itself to switch on predictive text (ugh) and I haven't noticed. You might find this an interesting read. GirthSummit (blether) 12:51, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks GirthSummit and Levivich. Must always remember to disable auto-correct! I'll read the piece. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:32, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Le quagmire

wish to protect account from hijacking while gone. Pasdecomplot (talk) 14:12, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Make sure you have a strong password and enable Meta:2fa Praxidicae (talk) 14:54, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Praxidicae. Worried about it due to recent login bizzarities, assuming from the internet connection. Pasdecomplot (talk) 16:51, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

C edits [1] Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:09, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

eee edits [2] and [3]

tt [4] and BLP tag #Tangential Notice [5] involved discussion [6]. WP:INVOLVED at tt, BLP, WP:WW attempt at ElC. self [7]

Cu response; eee PA [8] "IMO an extremely bad answer. Someone please protect the other editor from this ongoing harrassment by PDC, as I cannot. —valereee (talk) 13:42, 2 October 2020 (UTC)". Zeal and reply (not accessible in searches) unanswered [9]. Involved but [10]

Bk involved 14Nov [11] but closes 17Nov [12]

Advice after Cu [13]

Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:17, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

mobile editing

Hey, Pasdecomplot, I know you're taking a sabbatical but, for when you get back: an editor who edits often on his device recommends not using the mobile site or the app but instead the desktop site, which you can get to by scrolling down to the bottom of any article. He has an essay about smartphone editing at User:Cullen328/Smartphone editing. I think it's possible using the mobile site or the app, combined with unfamiliarity with the desktop site, might have caused issues that then caused a communications disconnect between you and other editors, including me, and if that's true I apologize. Best to you. —valereee (talk) 12:02, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If your apology —valereee is for repeatedly redirecting George Floyd talk page discussions of important content edits which needlessly harassed a new editor, then for continuing by pushing for a BLP ban, for three months, for format issues such as tabbing but not based on content issues, then I accept. But I hesitate to even respond since a response could illicit further harassment.

Your help desk question

You did not get a response to this question. If you have a problem like that again, report it at WP:VPT.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:57, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Vchimpanzee • talk


"Hooping"[14]

The block/ban submitted by an involved administrator [15] is not necessary since the ANI text is comprised of accusations of incivility which are not supported by diffs, and/or are inaccurate versions of events.

Blocks are for serious disruptions to the project, and not to be used to punish or retaliate, as in WP:NOPUNISH. The request for a block appears to be a punishment for disagreeing with POV on 12Nov [16]. The earlier archived ANI appears to stem from the involved admin's accusation of edit warring and accusation of PA, both of which are proven to be false by the diffs I provided at ANI [17] before it was archived.

The archiving signifies the accusations were not convincing.

Somehow, it was reopened with the "advice" of the future closer [18], which heightens concerns of WP:ADMINCONDUCT, of WP:INVOLVED, and of WP:TOOLMISUSE, which are ongoing [19] (seen towards the bottom). Simultaneously, a request for information on an IBAN was not answered [20].

As a recent contributor beginning from June, I had to learn about policy while editing. After being wrongly blocked by the same involved admin, I went to another area of the project to avoid constant harassment [21] and interaction.

On 10Sep, I began interacting with an involved editor [22] and my attempts at navigating through their chronic behaviors [23] were criticised. I listened, learned and responded to advice to "tone it down" by 29Sep [24], and then explained policies on good faith while attempting to clear myself and have the other editor's behaviors addressed by 03oct [25], but was unsuccessful [26]. I received another PA there from the involved admin [27], and more PA/harassment diffs are at the ANI [28].

Regardless, I changed per advice, as seen in these diffs: [29] and [30] and [31] and [32].

This accurate version of events and the changes I made are omitted from the block request, which instead wrongly portrays another story.

Also missing are the series of events at two requests for moves, which I either initiated or participated in, directly linked to the 07Nov ANI and the 14Nov request for block. I detailed these events at ANI [33] but its significance was maybe not understood. The completely mischaracterized presentation by the involved admin was not closely examined, possibly since they are an administrator [34].

Nor was the history of coordinations between the involved admin and involved editor examined:[35] and [36] and [37] and [38], and the infamous double accusation [39] and [40].

These are the reasons the block/ban is not necessary: it was made based on mischaracterizations of events, on omitted previous changes to behaviors, and on an inaccurate rendering of the history of harassment and PA's by the involved admin, after which I attempted to avoid all interaction. I've already stopped the behaviors, and have also recently learned there are other forums at which to bring issues as detailed here, instead of edit summaries. Thank you.

__________________



inaccurate portrayals of "ongoing" behaviors deftly manages to mischaracterize the role of the involved administrator(s) that submitted the request, and their coordinations with an editor that is directly connected to all of the events.


_____________ Additionally,


behaviors  were previously addressed by 03 oct, and were stopped.

Also, the block does not conform to block policy in that it continues to show apparent issues of WP:ADMINCONDUCT and apparent issues of WP:INVOLVED, leading to more concerns of WP:TOOLMISUSE.

Blocks are for serious disruptions to the project, and not to be used to punish an editor or to retaliate, as in WP:NOPUNISH. The reopening of the closed ANI and its request for the block was presented by an involved admin [41] using misleading and inaccurate information, and appears to be a punishment for disagreeing with POV on 12Nov [42]. Its portrayal of "ongoing" behavior issues is incorrect. While NOTTHEM is very clear about what to say and not say at a unblock request, it's nearly impossible to explain the inaccuracies without an accurate portrayal of events.

After the archiving of the ANI, the block was requested at its reopening on 14Nov, then granted on 17Nov. Being that the characterization is incorrect, it's also difficult to simply provide a mea culpa, while the diffs provided here evidence the accurate portrayal including the previous behaviors.

Additionally, issues of INVOLVED may have spread to what was then the future closer of the ANI [43] by the involved admin [44], as evidenced in the text at the reopened ANI on 14Nov. Although the "advice" appears to technically meet policy, the appearance of a conflict of interest is of increasing concern, and presented for review below.

To better explain, before the ANI, the issues with assuming good faith were already addressed by 29 Sep [45] and the advice of "toning it down" was closely followed. A throrough presentation of what constitutes good faith vs bad faith at the project was presented by 03 Oct [46], afterwhich I incorporated the concerns into edit summaries and into civility practices in dealing with an editor [47] and in general throughout the project. The changes are evidenced by the diffs of numerous talk requests here [48] and [49] and [50] and [51], and at numerous other pages where I've edited, without mass reverts using an admin rollback tool, and without conflict or issues.[108]

Which brings us to the inaccurate portrayal of events and behaviors within the ANI. If I hadn't changed and responded in good faith to the raised issue of not accusing others of "bad faith" in edit summaries, then this request to UNBLOCK would be much different. But, when the same editor repeated the mass rollback reverts, and didn't respond to multiple talk page discussions (in diffs above), it seemed necessary to remind them of using good faith, a reminder which was made in good faith.

A troubling result of the ANI's inaccurate portrayal is the absence of text and diffs revealing the apparent coordination between the involved admin and the editor (another mass rollback revert [52], labelling the reverted page as a BLP [53] and coordination again [54] and a PA here [55]), all of which occurred before 03oct.

While earlier verifying sources at RSN in good faith, and discussing in good faith NOTABLE vs COATRACK at BLPN, both editor and involved admin also entered discussions I'd begun or was involved in, including a later request for move on 24Oct. Meanwhile, the involved admin began a counter-move request on 31Oct for a correction move I made that day.

I've been editing with good faith, and have learned, and am still learning, about various policies while contributing since June. I value the work on the project. I'm very careful about personal attacks, and delete PA's and harassment's from the user page, including those by the involved admin listed in the ANI. Then, in 05Nov, the editor made a personal attack, three times via reverts (as detailed here [56] The PA was deleted, per policy[610]. The author of the PA posts the same PA again, and deletes the text citing reasons the PA was deleted[611]. The reposting of blatant PA was again deleted per policy[612]. The author of the PA posts same PA for the third time[613]) in a request for move. For following policy in deleting PA's, I was accused by the involved admin of edit warring, then of disruptive editing by the editor, and accused of a PA by the involved admin for quoting the PA, in an apparent double accusation, without diffs, by the editor [57]and by the involved admin [58].

Unfortunately, the apparent coordination by the involved admin and the editor is the common denominator throughout the ANI, and throughout the accurate portrayal of events here [120] and at the original ANI [121].

These events at the requests for moves directly predated the ANI, but were not described by the involved admin. Blocks from June were also not mentioned, which caused an editor at ANI to question why the information was missing.

As such, the block/ban is not necessary since it was administered based on an incomplete and inaccurate portrayal of events, from June through to 03Oct, and then through to 14Nov. It is also inaccurate in not mentioning the events occuring between 07Nov and 14Nov, as the ANI was posted, closed, and then reopened.

Created also is an inaccurate portrayal of the changes in behaviors and the ongoing efforts to abide by civility norms when faced by chronic behavior issues of another editor, behaviors leading to issues that I do not initiate, but only deal with after they begin.

A few questions as to the validity of the block had emerged and were addressed, then just reemerged as a potentially serious issue worthy of a review. The text is added: Did you read WP:NOTTHEM? Because this comment does violate it and further violates your restriction against speculating about the motives of others, specifically the above message indicates that editor is inappropriately crawling through this talk page. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC) So sorry. I don't understand where the speculation about motive is in the statement, since it's not about motives. It addresses results: "inappropriately" is not a speculation about the editor's motives, but a description of the digging through discussion threads to find the diffs used in the draft, which would be appropriate at ANI but not on a draft for ANI on a user's talk page. I am not addressing motives, since I have no idea what that editor's motives are; "crawling" also doesn't seem to be a speculation about motives. Please help me to understand how the phrase is a violation. After reading that editor's exchange with Flickotown, knowing about warring with Horse Eye's Back and Amigao, and reading that editor's statement just above, as in "launching a slew of grievances against others" which *definitely* speculates about motives, I thought the statement no different or possibly gentler than the others used. But, if you could help me to understand Barkeep49, I'd appreciate it a lot. I'll also read NOTTHEM again. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC) I'm willing to concede the language might have just been loaded with negative connotations rather than outright speculating on motives. It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:36, 27 November 2020 (UTC) Just to check that we read the same edit: that editor pinged you to block me from my user talk, as I've been drafting a request for ANI. Might you possibly explain Barkeep49 in what way did that editor assume good faith, or where good faith from that editor is in evidence? I really need to understand. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC) Yes we read the same edit. While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over. What's more important at the moment is how you are, or aren't, assuming that others are also assuming good faith. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2020 (UTC) Thanks for responding. I didn't mention that the concession is appreciated. But, what the recent request for clarification is centered on is the statement: "It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others." To describe an event as it occurred doesn't involve assumptions of good faith or bad faith. Events occurred and are described. What's confusing is that it seems I am to understand from your responses that even describing a series of events, as have undeniably occurred, will be mischaracterized as speculating on motives, and as not assuming good faith? I ask since you've offered to post the request to overturn the block, which in itself now seems to be misunderstood as an ANI report: "While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over." All of which brings me again to the question, and deepens the concerns, noted at the beginning of this discussion thread and sent to ProcrastinatingReader, of whether or not there's an issue with pre-involvement. From a technical understanding, not, but from a practical understanding based on the responses in question, the concerns have not been alleviated but heightened., from [122], as seen towards the bottom of the discussion.

These heightened ADMINCONDUCT, INVOLVED, and TOOLMISUSE concerns are not accusations of bad faith whatsoever, but only concerns based on the stated intentions behind policies governing blocks. It certainly appears as if there might be a conflict of interest and involvement. If the review agrees with this concern, then the block/ban could be found as invalid.

Possibly worth mentioning in this context, before the ANI was unarchived, I asked about an IBAN on the involved admin but didn't receive a response [123], and thus didn't even know the request for reopening was successful, after checking a few times.

Thank you for your attention. I promise to continue to edit in good faith, to continue to not accuse others of "bad faith", and to begin using appropriate forums when dealing with issues that cannot be solved through good faith talk page discussions.





Thank you for your attention. The block and ban are not necessary, and the block does not conform to block policy in that it continues to show apparent issues of WP:ADMINCONDUCT and apparent issues of WP:INVOLVED, leading to more concerns of WP:TOOLMISUSE.

Blocks are for serious disruptions to the project, and not to be used to punish an editor or to retaliate, as in WP:NOPUNISH. The request for the block was presented by an involved admin [59] using misleading and inaccurate information, and appears to be a punishment for disagreeing with POV on 12Nov [60]. An accurate portrayal of the events makes it difficult to agree with the inaccurate premises of the block request granted on 14Nov, and difficult to simply provide here a mea culpa, while the diffs provided here evidence the accurate portrayal.

Additionally, issues of INVOLVED spread to the future closer of the ANI [61] by the involved admin [62], as evidenced in the text at the reopened ANI. Although the "advice" appears to technically meet policy, the appearance of a conflict of interest is of increasing concern.

To better explain, before the ANI, the issues with assuming good faith were already addressed by 29 Sep [63] and the advice of "toning it down" was closely followed. A throrough presentation of what constitutes good faith vs bad faith at the project was presented by 03 Oct [64], afterwhich I incorporated the concerns into edit summaries and into civility practices in dealing with other editors [65]. The changes are evidenced by the diffs of numerous talk requests here [66] and [67] and [68] and [69], and at numerous other pages where I've edited without the editor's mass reverts using their admin tool.

Which brings us to the inaccurate portrayal of events and behaviors within the ANI. If I hadn't changed and responded in good faith to the raised issue of not accusing others of "bad faith" in edit summaries, then this request to UNBLOCK would be much different. When the same editor repeated the mass reverts, and didn't respond to multiple talk discussions (in diffs above), I had to remind them of using good faith, a reminder which was made in good faith.

A troubling result of the ANI's inaccurate portrayal is the absence of text and diffs revealing the apparent coordination between the involved admin and the editor (ongoing mass reverts using an admin tool [70], labelling reverted page as a BLP [71] and coordination again [72] and a PA here [73]). While verifying sources at RSN, and at BLPN, both have also entered discussions I've begun or was involved in, including a request for move, while the involved admin began a counter-move request for a move.

I've been editing with good faith, and have learned about various policies since June. I'm very careful about personal attacks, and delete PA's from the user page. When the editor made a personal attack (three times via reverts as detailed here [74] The PA was deleted, per policy[610]. The author of the PA posts the same PA again, and deletes the text citing reasons the PA was deleted[611]. The reposting of blatant PA was again deleted per policy[612]. The author of the PA posts same PA for the third time[613]) in a request for move. For following policy in deleting PA's, I was accused by the involved admin of edit warring, then of disruptive editing by the editor, and accused of a PA by the involved admin for quoting the PA, in an apparent double accusation, without diffs, by the editor [75]and by the involved admin [76]. The apparent coordination by the involved admin and the editor is the common denominator throughout the ANI, and throughout the accurate portrayal of events here [77] and at the original ANI [78].

As such, the block/ban is not necessary since it was placed based on an inaccurate portrayal of events. And it was placed for an inaccurate portrayal of the efforts to abide by civility norms when faced by chronic behavior issues of another editor. In addition, the validity of the block had emerged, then just reemerged as a potentially serious issue: Did you read WP:NOTTHEM? Because this comment does violate it and further violates your restriction against speculating about the motives of others, specifically the above message indicates that editor is inappropriately crawling through this talk page. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC) So sorry. I don't understand where the speculation about motive is in the statement, since it's not about motives. It addresses results: "inappropriately" is not a speculation about the editor's motives, but a description of the digging through discussion threads to find the diffs used in the draft, which would be appropriate at ANI but not on a draft for ANI on a user's talk page. I am not addressing motives, since I have no idea what that editor's motives are; "crawling" also doesn't seem to be a speculation about motives. Please help me to understand how the phrase is a violation. After reading that editor's exchange with Flickotown, knowing about warring with Horse Eye's Back and Amigao, and reading that editor's statement just above, as in "launching a slew of grievances against others" which *definitely* speculates about motives, I thought the statement no different or possibly gentler than the others used. But, if you could help me to understand Barkeep49, I'd appreciate it a lot. I'll also read NOTTHEM again. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC) I'm willing to concede the language might have just been loaded with negative connotations rather than outright speculating on motives. It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:36, 27 November 2020 (UTC) Just to check that we read the same edit: that editor pinged you to block me from my user talk, as I've been drafting a request for ANI. Might you possibly explain Barkeep49 in what way did that editor assume good faith, or where good faith from that editor is in evidence? I really need to understand. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC) Yes we read the same edit. While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over. What's more important at the moment is how you are, or aren't, assuming that others are also assuming good faith. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2020 (UTC) Thanks for responding. I didn't mention that the concession is appreciated. But, what the recent request for clarification is centered on is the statement: "It certainly doesn't assume good faith of others." To describe an event as it occurred doesn't involve assumptions of good faith or bad faith. Events occurred and are described. What's confusing is that it seems I am to understand from your responses that even describing a series of events, as have undeniably occurred, will be mischaracterized as speculating on motives, and as not assuming good faith? I ask since you've offered to post the request to overturn the block, which in itself now seems to be misunderstood as an ANI report: "While you're blocked you should not be preparing to take others to ANI. Any attempts to take them to ANI by you will have to wait until your block is over." All of which brings me again to the question, and deepens the concerns, noted at the beginning of this discussion thread and sent to ProcrastinatingReader, of whether or not there's an issue with pre-involvement. From a technical understanding, not, but from a practical understanding based on the responses in question, the concerns have not been alleviated but heightened., from [79], as seen towards the bottom of the discussion.





This request to overturn the Ban and Block from 17NOV is based on the serious problems with the ANI presented by Valereee, most notably the sweeping accusation of "ongoing" behavior problems. The position is not an accurate portrayal of the issue, and is an incomplete rendering of events as well as an inaccurate assessment of my current editing on Wikipedia.

The accusations and generalizations together with diffs purporting to be evidence of the accusations happen to effectively avoid the actual source of chronic behavior problems: CaradhrasAiguo, the editor connected directly or indirectly to Valereee's diffs.

There's also a valid concern of a lack of pinging on the reopened ANI after I pinged EdJohnston on El_C's talk, which wasn't answered [80], which aided in my misunderstanding that it wasn't reopened, since I had also asked about an interaction ban. Thus, I didn't participate in the discussion after checking if it was progressing and not receiving any pings. And, the ANI process needs to be approached with respect and with care.

Although the involved administrator Valereee has gained the trust of their colleagues, as they say [81], and thus, possibly, their version of events becomes credible by default, their ANI misrepresents events and manages to obscure behaviors by CaradhrasAiguo, and by Valereee themself. The ANI also echos an earlier attempt by Valereee to misrepresent a BLP topic ban in order to extend a block on editing.

  • I've contributed as a user since 01JUN, then began avoiding Valereee after 29JUN by going to another area in the project. This was after two blocks on 12 and 21JUN - the second for "refusing to learn to indent" [82]. A BLP ban by El_C via Valereee occurred on 29JUN (after trying to include RS and text on the dragging of George Floyd's dead body by Chauvin. By the way, all of these admin actions were for RS and discussions on the Killing of George Floyd page talk.).
  • On 10SEP, I interacted for the first time with CaradhrasAiguo (user page highlights: knows Chinese geography and speaks Chinese). From then through to 30SEP it was very difficult editing [83]. I was reprimanded, and modified my styles. CaradhrasAiguo wasn't reprimanded and was mass-deleting edits on very specific pages dealing with Tibetan history, Tibetan Buddhism, and current Chinese policies which RS states is cultural genocide in Tibet, the areas in which I am working with expertise. Editing became increasingly difficult due to that editor's chronic behaviors as indicated by their blocks [84].
  • Not mentioned at all in the ANI is Valereee was coordinating with CaradhrasAiguo. On 15SEP Valereee tagged a Bio I was editing, that CaradhrasAiguo was repeatedly reverting [85], as a BLP [86]. Their coordination wasn't just "tangential" as of 16SEP [87]. Valereee (began?) also posted "warnings" without diffs or reason, as on 15SEP [88], basically accusations of PA's which they themself authored. This pattern of accusations has continued thru to the ANI Talk:11th Panchen Lama#Edit warring on talk.
  • Going further, Valereee attempted to extend a block for edits I made to the page before its tagging as a BLP [89] (and see back channel). Apparently, El_C was convinced briefly, but Usedtobecool and I prevailed, then El_C removed the block extension [90]. El_C also issued the advice to "tone it down", which I've since followed.
  • Also not mentioned in the ANI, I had tried ANI for CaradhrasAiguo .diff. but poorly represented the issues, for which I apologise. I simultaneously tried Teahouse for Valereee Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1076#Huge_problems_with_an_administrator,_help_needed_fast as they were attempting to block for the so-called BLP violations, and threatening other things. There, CaradhrasAiguo entered the discussion, reverted formating, mischaracterizes quotes and attempts to disrupt call for help. Then CaradhrasAiguo continues to disrupt and hound into another follow-up discussion for help [91]
  • Another attempt, with Cullen328, to address CaradhrasAiguo's behaviors began [92] and then was completed on 03OCT, but no administrative actions resulted [93], unlike an earlier sanction on that editor by Cullen328 [94]. Valereee entered the discussion, with a personal attack [95], which signifies Valereee was aware of the discussion requested by Cullen328 on what constitutes "bad faith" behaviors on Wikipedia.
  • After 03OCT, CaradhrasAiguo and Valereee briefly stopped the behaviors. On 15OCT, it began again with reverts [96], and accusations of "ongoing" behaviors which applied to the reverter, as the edit summary explains[97]. CaradhrasAiguo was again mass-deleting edits with confirmed RS, and again refusing to use talk on multiple pages, which only left edit summaries as a place to communicate. The distinct words "bad faith" had been replaced as advised by longer summaries, and finally once by a phrase of '...not examples of good faith editing'... The coordinations also recommenced with the misplaced "warning" from Valereee.
  • Afterwards, both Valereee, on 31OCT, and CaradhrasAiguo, on 05NOV, enter move requests I had begun. The behaviors and coordination again recommenced. This is fully detailed by the text and diffs in my response on the original ANI [98], before it was unarchived and closed, before I even knew it was unarchived successfully. Please note that none of the comments specifically addressed this response, while ProcrastinatingReader was quick to understand the possible inaccuracies in the ANI allegations. It appears an assumption was present at ANI that the allegations were accurate, despite there being diffs which do not support the associated text and allegations. Please note also that even with Valereee's diffs as evidence, the connections to CaradhrasAiguo and to Valereee's coordinations with them were somehow completely overlooked.
  • This is the context which is omitted from Valereee's ANI. All of Valereee's actions from this point forward corresponds to parallel actions at the requests for moves: from the 07NOV accusation on talk at the move request and the 08NOV double accusation[99]and[100]on user talk which correspond to the 08NOV ANI; and the discussion at the other move request on 12NOV [101] which respectfully disagreed with a table of POV on RS and sources, that led to the 13NOV request to reopen the ANI and the 14NOV ANI proposal for a Block and Ban. It appears from this side the 13NOV restart efforts were a result of disagreeing with Valereee's POV. But, Valereee's ANI doesn't mention these connections, as it likewise doesn't mention their involvement in a running dispute of their administrative actions that began in June.

At ANI, Valereee's diffs obscure this accurate portrayal and current picture, and are misleading.

  • An accurate picture of my ongoing attempts at dealing with these coordinated behaviors is here[102].
  • But, it's misrepresented by "November 7: diff 11", which leads to an edit and not to a warning; Another misrepresented diff is "Warning at article talk seen: 12", since the diff does not indicate whether or not a warning was seen.
  • Another misrepresentation: there wasn't a warning from GirthSummit, but Valereee's diff shows a discussion of allegations made by Valereee in which GirthSummit again refers to CaradhrasAiguo's ongoing reverts of confirmed RS, which are repeatedly misrepresented in their edit summaries as 'advocacy groups'. GirthSummit had also began a BLPN on a page which they hadn't edited before[103]. It led to another noticeboard discussion which Valereee entered while not really contributing, but instead repeatedly forked the conversation by changing the topic, to discuss an editor's work that was not participating in the BLPN, which was off the main topic[104].
  • Then, really misrepresented is the coordinated double accusatory "warning" that was actually and with some impunity posted on my user talk. Both CaradhrasAiguo[105]and Valereee[106]proceed to accuse me without diffs or other evidence of disruptive editing, of personal attacks, and Caradhras threatens a block. Instead of this accurate portrayal, Valereee's version at ANI says, "November 8: warning seen and removed with an edit summary accusing the editor leaving the warning of acting in bad faith: 13". But, the edit summary was not an accusation of anything - that's Valerie's interpretation of a philosophical question that references duality and dream-like appearances .diff.
  • I might also mention that Barkeep49's pre-involvement with Valereee was on 14Nov: They provided suggested text for the ANI[107] which was used by Valereee to officially reopen the ANI that day, and was referred to as "advice". [108]. I wonder about Barkeep49's role as the ANI closer since the pre-involvement connects them to the ongoing dispute of Valereee's administrative actions.

What all of this signifies is that I have listened, learned, and changed, and that the ANI was a serious misrepresentation of events by an involved administrator, Valereee, which omitted their role in creating (and even churning) accusations and in coordinating with another editor, CaradhrasAiguo. And, it signifies that the judgement by the participants was unfortunately based on these same misrepresentations and omissions. As such, and given the accurate portrayal provided here and provided earlier at ANI, I request that the Block be lifted since it was enacted based on incomplete and misrepresented information. I also request the Ban likewise be lifted, for the same reasons, and also since it is too broad of a ban and not defined enough so as to prevent misuse, by Valereee or others as happened in September.

Thank you for your consideration.


Pasdecomplot (talk) 23:28, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your diligence

Hi Pasdecomplot,

Thank you for your edit expanding the section "20th century" on the Tibetan Buddhism page. It's important those of us familiar with Tibetan Buddhism and Maoist China work together. Time is precious, and so we need to support each other... There is a very real and current danger to our teachings and methods, and that is Chinese manipulation. You should know both OTD and TTD want the same thing - that is to unite the Karma Kagyu lineage. Let it unfold with time, and it will. Skillfully. Have confidence. You don't need to rush. Understand that there are and were very real dangers to the lives of both OTD and TTD and their families. China would have its way and kill both of them. Many high lamas have been killed. For this reason a lot of information has to be kept in secrecy. This means you and I don't know the full story regarding, and don't need to. Dharma is intact. Each of us needs to work together, and not create unnecessary work for each other. We have busy lives, and editing on wikipedia is noble work. All best wishes, Badabara (talk) 07:22, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Badabara Thanks for the positive wishes! Working in unison is always easier than working in conflict, but Mr Floyd went way overboard... Regards. Pasdecomplot (talk) 00:01, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Editor2020. I trust this good faith ping isn't a violation of a block I hope to have unblocked. It's only focused on bettering the project with correct page info. About your recent reverts to Fuzheado's version at Vajrayana: the reverted edits are from RS by a highly respected Nyingma scholar, noted in the ref and links. I invite you to read it, accessible via the ref & link, while more texts on the subject are also available. The info is like Vajrayana 101. The RS is very clear on the foundations of Tibetan Vajrayana by Padmasambhava, and of Buddha's previous secret teachings on tantra, which is known in Tibetan Buddhism as the Vajrayana - the basis of the Nyingma school and a basis of the other schools. This is just an fyi. I'll ping again when the block is over. Thanks so much. Pasdecomplot (talk) 08:00, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi AdoTang. Just noticed the major rewrite of the lead at 2008 Tibetan unrest. It was previously reedited as per the talk notes, but POV (ie. "alleged", the changed image) seems to have been reintroduced. Maybe bring those changes to talk. Thanks, will re-ping when a current block is over. Pasdecomplot (talk) 18:35, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Pasdecomplot. I'm not sure what you're referring to. When I came across the page, I noticed it seemed to be really pro-Tibet in some areas and pro-China in other areas. In my personal opinion, the Chinese government sucks, but this is Wikipedia, and things have to be neutral. So I did the cleanup, and yeah. I added "alleged" because, frankly, I don't know much about the topic, and I thought "hey, this line implying they directly persecute them sounds a bit biased considering this happened 12 years ago". I'll go remove that, I guess. Maybe the link too, though we'll need a better article that's actually about persecution of Tibetans in China. Maybe I'll find one, maybe not.
I'm not sure what you mean by the image, though. You mean me moving the image of Tibet's land boundaries down to the Background section and moving the photo of the monks in custody up to the lead? I felt the former would fit more in a section about things leading up to the unrest, while the latter actually depicted something that occurred during the unrest, so of course the latter would fit more, right? If there was an image of an actual riot scene from the unrest that we had on hand, I'd use it.
I'd like for a few more examples of the ways I apparently "reintroduced" the POV. I came in there, saw that the article was biased from the first two sections alone, and got to work, cleaning up poor grammar and rewording things I believed were, while informative, worded in a biased manner. In case you think the article being pro-whatever-your-stance-is-on-this makes it neutral and good enough for Wikipedia, it doesn't. Not implying that's what you believe (I really hope it's not), but yeah.
Though thanks for reminding me of that page, since I noticed I forgot to add a word in a sentence. That ain't fun, given it's in the lead section.
AdoTang (talk) 00:40, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited 2008 Tibetan unrest, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Aba.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 07:49, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

repaired. Pasdecomplot (talk) 00:48, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your thread has been archived

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Hi Pasdecomplot! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, Question re missing first name of article, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread.


The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:01, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited 2008 Tibetan unrest, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Tibetan Uprising and Chori.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 07:18, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed already Pasdecomplot (talk) 11:41, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution

Information icon Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from 1987–1989 Tibetan unrest into Protests and uprisings in Tibet since 1950. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was copied, attribution is not required. — Diannaa (talk) 15:48, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

um...provided a note of pasting in edit summary when published; in section created where copied text was pasted, a tag to main article was also published. But, thanks, @Diannaa. I'll look at the policy to see if I missed something. BTW, I fixed all those refs and reprovided the information (dates, authors, article names, etc) deleted during your formatting at Larung Gar. No worries. Pasdecomplot (talk) 17:44, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I did see the edit summary, but it did not mention which article you copied from, and the edit itself did not clear things up, because it linked to 1987-1989 Uprising protests, which does not exist. The edit summary needs to mention the specific article from which you got the content, as demonstrated here. Thanks,— Diannaa (talk) 19:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the link has already been repaired, but I'll check again. Pasdecomplot (talk) 00:54, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it was done on both pages, at 18:00 and 18:07 on 1 Nov 2020. Before your last note. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 01:01, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your thread has been archived

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Hi Pasdecomplot! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, History of a move, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread.


The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:04, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Choekyi Gyaltsen, 10th Panchen Lama, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Wylie.

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Corrected Pasdecomplot (talk) 12:32, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Palden Sherab, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Mipham.

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addressed. Pasdecomplot (talk) 19:38, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your thread has been archived

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Hi Pasdecomplot! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, Is a WP:IBAN possible on an admin?, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread.


The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:01, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - look, this was simply disruptive. I've already told you why the attribution wasn't needed, there are multiple RSes, and both they and we are saying 'the Chinese government claimed', not saying that the assertions are true. Your assertion that the SMH 'published a report from CCTV' is flat-out wrong - they published their own report, which mentioned stuff from the CCTV report, as well as other sources. I'm not using a template, but please consider this a warning - cut it out. GirthSummit (blether) 17:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]