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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Admrboltz (talk | contribs) at 00:03, 10 December 2023 (→‎Protected edit request on 9 December 2023 (3): source, but not in a spot to edit the doc.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Template:Vital article

Revert

This revert was not appropriate. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shohei_Ohtani&diff=prev&oldid=1181439577 ("Please preview your changes, use substantial edit summaries, and consider that all these cites aren't necessary in light of the Baseball-Reference link")

First, it states a misunderstanding - that some RS-supported textual additions are "necessary," and that some are not "necessary." Clearly incorrect. Not even the article itself is necessary. Certainly, not a reason for a revert of RS-supported text.

Second, it points to information in another part of the section. But that text does not included RS-supported information that the reverted deleted. Plus, it contains incorrect information - as to where on the leaderboard the batter was in home runs.

Oddly, the reverted asked that I preview my changes. But I did. Why would they suggest otherwise. They also asked that I use "substantial edit summaries." But the edit summaries that I used were perfectly fair for the course for additions such as these, supported by RSs.

I urge that the reverter be reverted. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:F0D8:24E5:DD2C:1D8E (talk) 18:06, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Ohtani's choice of team

Jon Morosi X logo, a stylized letter X
@Jon_Morosi

On Shohei Ohtani, remember that the physical exam will be extensive for a record-setting contract.

Even if Ohtani makes his *choice* in the next 24 hours -- as expected -- the *agreement* may not be finalized for several days due to the medical review process.

December 8, 2023[1]

The Internet is abuzz with rumor that Ohtani could pick his next team as early as today. In light of that, here is some wisdom from Jon Morosi on the process. We will not update this page to reflect Ohtani's new team unless we are 100% sure that the deal is 100% completed. Please read this essay on how we handle sports transactions for more information.

Thank you all for your understanding and enjoy your weekend. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jon Morosi X logo, a stylized letter X
@Jon_Morosi

Today, I posted reporting that included inaccurate information that Shohei Ohtani was traveling to Toronto. I regret the mistake and apologize to baseball fans everywhere. I am deeply sorry for letting you down.

December 8, 2023[1]

Ohtani on a private jet to Toronto, huh? "Hate to Say I Told You So", alright. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:16, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2023

Shohei signed with Dodgers 2600:1012:B171:B20E:1C16:4B21:A8E1:8FCD (talk) 20:19, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done See that section above with the Jon Morosi tweets? Remember Ohtani's flight to Toronto yesterday? Do we learn? – Muboshgu (talk) 20:22, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2023 (2)

I wanna change his team to the Blue Jays because it was reported that he signed with the aforementioned team.--ChessGuy66 (talk) 20:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC) ChessGuy66 (talk) 20:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. Are you serious? You are a day behind in your news. Spanneraol (talk) 20:37, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, I meant the dodgers now.--ChessGuy66 (talk) 20:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I thought he signed with the Blue Jays. ChessGuy66 (talk) 20:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I just heard he signed with the dodgers. ChessGuy66 (talk) 20:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You heard wrong. What you actually heard was that he "decided to choose" the Dodgers. It's not finalized yet. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:40, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
LOL. We'll make a change to the team parameters when there's a signed contract in hand. Not a "decision to choose" the Dodgers. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

One more thought on Ohtani's next contract

Does anyone else remember when Carlos Correa showed up in San Francisco for an introductory press conference merely for the Giants to back out of the deal? I do. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:47, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yep.. and considering the Angels were never all that forthcoming on Ohtani's most recent surgery... I think his physical could be very important. Spanneraol (talk) 20:51, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If he does wind up with the Dodgers though, I'm gonna take a pass through this article.. he doesn't need 5-6 paragraphs for each season. Spanneraol (talk) 20:53, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Spanneraol more like 7-10 paragraphs per season. Agree that the article can be trimmed down. Natg 19 (talk) 21:20, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

TSN now reporting that Ohtani has signed a 10-year, $700 million contract, with the Dodgers. GoodDay (talk) 20:54, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed to, not signed. Spanneraol (talk) 20:55, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Muboshgu: are you sure you should be the administrator 'protecting' the page, as you've been involved in the content dispute? GoodDay (talk) 21:25, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GoodDay, I do not see a "dispute". I see a BLP issue. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Muboshgu: should temporarily be removed as administrator of the page until this unneeded edit conflict is resolved. Thanks for ruining sports Wikipedia! Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC) [reply]

I hate Wikipedia, Jimbo! Muboshgu (talk) 21:43, 9 December 2023 (UTC) My post was edited to say that by an account I have indef blocked. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:52, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This was impersonation per https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shohei_Ohtani&diff=prev&oldid=1189122462. - Indefensible (talk) 22:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Indefensible, I was on my phone and it was too challenging to look it up that way. They're blocked for a week for disruptive editing. By that time, Ohtani's contract may be official. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:42, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Will this TSN source do? GoodDay (talk) 21:52, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Their headline says "signed", but their article says "agreed to". This contract will take days to finalize due to its complexity, as the Morosi tweet I added above says. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:56, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ a b Jon Morosi [@Jon_Morosi] (December 8, 2023). "On Shohei Ohtani, remember that the physical exam will be extensive for a record-setting contract. Even if Ohtani makes his *choice* in the next 24 hours -- as expected -- the *agreement* may not be finalized for several days due to the medical review process" (Tweet) – via Twitter. Cite error: The named reference "TweetJon_Morosi" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).

References

[THREAD] Wikipedia is a disaster for reporting sports news.

Are we SERIOUSLY going to wait for confirmation from the team itself to update the page? I obviously don't want to jump the gun but literally Shohei himself and every other media source has already announced it as official. If a rare "Carlos Correa situation" were to happen again, we can always revert the page. On the 99% chance that it does stay official, this is just another example of how Wikipedia will always stay behind as long as moderators continue to be stubborn and implement such superfluous confirmation policies. KillaTrav87 (talk) 21:24, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]


References

I don't think you understand the difference between an "encyclopedia" and a "newspaper". We are the former, not the latter. We ALWAYS wait for confirmation.– Muboshgu (talk) 21:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Protected edit request on 9 December 2023

Add in 2023 section: Ohtani is expected to sign a 10-year contract worth $700 million with the Los Angeles Dodgers as of December 2023.[1] - Indefensible (talk) 21:28, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Many people expect things. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Gonzalez, Alden (2023-12-09). "Ohtani joining Dodgers on 10-year, $700M deal". ESPN.com.

Protected edit request on 9 December 2023 (2)

Shohei Ohtani is now a member of the Los Angeles Dodgers. If you could change “free agent” to “member of the Los Angeles Dodgers.” the information would be accurate and up to date. 2600:1008:B08F:81C:6C5C:FC2D:9BD5:92B3 (talk) 21:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Protected edit request

The agreement in terms been announced by his agency, Ohtani himself, and posted by the official MLB Twitter. There's significant coverage of it in The Athletic and several other high-quality outlets, like CBS Sports.

Quite frankly, we look ridiculous when Ohtani himself has stated this information. I'm confident that Ohtani freely giving out this info satisfies the guideline at WP:RSBREAKING. That said, I get that we also can't say that it's an official deal until that's confirmed by the Dodgers. Thankfully, the essay WP:SPORTSTRANS says that it is allowable to add this information to the article if "limited to prose attributed to the source that is reporting the transaction".

With all of that in mind, I would propose adding this to the body of the article:

On 9 December 2023, Ohtani announced on Instagram that he had agreed to terms on a contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers. His agency confirmed that decision. There has been no official confirmation from the Dodgers.[1]

Ed [talk] [OMT] 21:58, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is no harm in waiting. There have been other high profile free agent signings in recent years that were announced by players and press conferences scheduled only for them to fall apart at the last minute. He is not a member of the Dodgers until he passes his physical and the team makes an announcement that a contract has been signed. The Dodgers also dont currently have an open 40-man roster spot so some players need to be removed first. Spanneraol (talk) 22:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Spanneraol: I'm not clear how the proposed addition above and your response are in conflict. In the unlikely event it falls apart, the above text would still all be true. (And would likely stay in the article. If that happened, it's not a wild guess to say that the reportedly largest baseball contract in history falling apart would be discussed in this article.) We are waiting for official confirmation of the contract, but there's no reason to wait to say the manifestly truthful and reliably reported info that Ohtani themselves announced and reliable sources around the world are reporting on. Ed [talk] [OMT] 22:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What's the hurry? It's always better to err on the side of waiting for confirmation... that is what we did with the Carlos Correa situation last year.. once the entire saga was over we were able to write a better section on the drama involved with it. There is no need to rush "breaking news" into articles.. this is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. Spanneraol (talk) 22:41, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Spanneraol: I'm confused how this request is being construed as being in a hurry? This is about adding an update to the article that is being reported by gold-standard reliable sources, just like we'd do for any other article on Wikipedia. (Not doing so makes Wikipedia less useful to readers.) Ed [talk] [OMT] 22:45, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
How is it less useful? Wikipedia is not for breaking news... the articles should be stable and we shouldn't put info in that will be outdated or temporary very soon. Spanneraol (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Spanneraol: I see, that's the disconnect. "Ohtani announced he agreed to terms" will not become outdated—as I said, that will remain in the article at this point whether or not he the contract is actually signed because reliable sources would cover how it unraveled. Does that make sense? Otherwise, it might be time for a RfC. Ed [talk] [OMT] 23:13, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think that it will become outdated. Assuming this contract is signed as reported, it won't be encyclopedic that he broke the news on Instagram on December 9. It'll be the contract itself that matters. RfC is not the worst idea. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:15, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The ed17, I disagree with adding anything at this time as well. We are an encyclopedia and not a newspaper, after all. But yes, the compromise would be a sentence or so in the body and keeping "free agent" in the lead and infobox. Perhaps Bagumba can chime in as he was the primary author of the essay WP:SPORTSTRANS. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:48, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ McCullough, Andy. "Shohei Ohtani to sign with Dodgers". The Athletic. Retrieved 2023-12-09.

Signing confirmed by MLB

Change the page so he’s now a member of the Dodgers 2603:8001:2E07:2D00:48EC:1F9B:5B:A973 (talk) 22:00, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment on including Ohtani's agreement to contract terms

Baseball player Shohei Ohtani has agreed to the terms of a contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers. That agreement has not been published by the Dodgers themselves yet, nor have they announced that a contract has been signed. However, the agreement has been announced by Ohtani themselves, his agency, and posted by the official MLB Twitter. There's significant secondary coverage of the announcement in The Athletic and several other high-quality outlets, like CBS Sports. Those two sources confirm that Ohtani himself announced the arrangement.

Should that information be included in this article prior to an official announcement by the Dodgers? Applicable guidelines here include WP:RSBREAKING, in addition to the essay WP:SPORTSTRANS. BLP, specifically WP:BLPGOSSIP or WP:GRAPEVINE, do not appear to factor in as Ohtani has spoken on this himself. Ed [talk] [OMT] 23:27, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support adding the following sentence, which identifies the source of the information in the text and does not state that a contract has been signed: "On 9 December 2023, Ohtani announced on Instagram that he had agreed to terms on a contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers. There has been no official confirmation from the Dodgers.[1]" Ed [talk] [OMT] 23:30, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ McCullough, Andy. "Shohei Ohtani to sign with Dodgers". The Athletic. Retrieved 2023-12-09.

Protected edit request on 9 December 2023 (3)

700 million signing 

71.173.78.182 (talk) 23:28, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ♒️ 98TIGERIUS 🐯 23:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a source for it, however I am not in a position to edit this doc to include it at this time: https://sports.yahoo.com/shohei-ohtani-joins-la-dodgers-on-record-demolishing-10-year-700m-deal-213536868.html --AdmrBoltz 00:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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