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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by OverMyHead (talk | contribs) at 07:36, 13 June 2008 (→FAR: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

For your tireless work in making Wikipedia better, for keeping Template:Feature up-to-date, for doing the grunt work of cleaning up Wikipedia:Featured article candidates, for mediating in disputes, for adding lots of really nice pictures, and for still finding the time to work on articles! In a few months you've already become a highly valued member of the community. Stay with us and don't burn out, please. --Eloquence Apr 10, 2004


Barack Obama archive

Nice new pic by the way.

It didn't seem important at first, but now I think it would be better if Wikipedia:Featured article review/Barack Obama/archive3 were included in the Talk:Barack Obama {{ArticleHistory}}. This week at Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Trump International Hotel and Tower (Chicago)/1 we have had debates about instability and everyone is looking for established precedents. Obviously, the most famously dynamic page right now is Barack Obama. It would be better for the paper trail permanent record if his article history was all-inclusive. Please reply at my talk page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's odd - Gimmetrow's bot (gimmebot) should have added it there when it archive the FAR discussion. I don't know why it did not. I've dropped a note on his talk page pointing him here. Raul654 (talk) 18:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See Wikipedia talk:Featured article review#Obama FAR, ostensibly it was not Gimmebotified because it was neither kept nor removed from the list. Don't know whether that helps or not. Woody (talk) 18:28, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See also User:Raul654/archive16#Obama_FAR. Gimmetrow 19:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Basically, Joel closed it as "aborted, no contest" and it was decided not to run it through usual AH. Not a keep or a remove. I understand Joel's position: sometimes we're not actually keeping things at FAR but saying "this isn't the right time to discuss in this venue." (Perhaps we actually need a fully articulated third category?) But paper trails matter, so I don't mind if this readded to AH, Gimme.
I'll tell you one thing: Obama is going to plague FAR. This article, at present, is an FA category by itself. Part of me wants a unilateral status removal because meeting 1e is going to be joke (especially if he wins). Another part of me doesn't want to give up on the idea that any article can be featured—even where the subject is running for the White House. Thoughts Raul? Marskell (talk) 19:20, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
GimmeBot cannot add it to AH if it's not a Keep or Remove without restructuring AH to account for ... what ... abort? This was discussed at the time; there's currently no such thing in AH. I guess we could call it a Keep if we have to record it in AH. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, it would have to be added as Keep. I was mentioning a third category hypothetically. Marskell (talk) 21:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It was archived as a Keep. Confusing. Maybe GimmeBot could botify it into AH as a Keep, but add a different closing note? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:42, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
When should it show up on the AH at Talk:Barack Obama?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I may not be understanding what is going on, but the AH has not been updated. Is it suppose to be?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Joel, thanks for your reply. I am trying to determine whether any reference to FAR3 will appear in AH. It sounded like above there was an agreement that AH is deficient without FAR3's inclusion. Your response said that we need a third category to properly address it. It has beenkept by no consensus essentially. Why not add a no consensus and mark it as such. There is extensive precedent on WP for having NC closes.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Marskell (and Joel, if you're watching) - see Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_criteria#Stability_criterion Raul654 (talk) 16:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm watching. I will comment on the criteria talk page. Joelito (talk) 15:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for springing this on you, I'm just looking for the opinion of someone oversite and picked the first active contributor I could think of. Yesterday a new user created the article Sonic Focus, this was promptly tagged for deletion as promotional. At this point I noticed that the article was also a copyright violation and tagged it as such - replacing the promotional tag. The original creator then proceeded to start to rewrite the article in their own words as recommended by the standard template for informing users of a G12 deletion. Pleasantly surprised I tried to help out, removing POV language and adding references and as well as removing the deletion tag. The result of this is (in my opinion) a short but valid stub that at the least does not meet any of the speedy delete criteria. My question is since the basis and original posting of the article was a copyrighted work, can the new work be validly released under the GFDL license or does it constitute a derivative work of the original copyrighted piece. If it is possible should the original "creating" edit and those after it where the article content is unchanged be removed. I'm sorry for the rambling question but I'm bit unsure about the issue, please don't feel under any obligation to respond especially if I'm making a fuss over nothing. Again thank you for your patience. Regards, Guest9999 (talk) 02:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The current article does not resemble the original copyvio in any way - it looks like a total rewrite. So no, in my non-lawerly opinion, I don't think it's a derivative. The earlier revisions do contain copyvios, so I deleted the article and restored the last revision only. Raul654 (talk) 14:07, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 9 Dispatch

Raul, are you settled in yet? When you have time, I want to review a FAC. Also, do you think Wikipedia:FCDW/June 9, 2008 is almost there; is anything missing? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked from the global warming pages

Looks like I can't edit the global warming pages. I guess that this has something to do with the Scibaby problem, perhaps he is editing from my neigborhood with a similar IP address?  :)

I would be glad if you can fix the problem, but it is not urgent. There is just one edit on the GW pages by me that needs to be improved:

I edited the global warming controversy and the climate change denial pages yesterday, mentioning a new NASA report containing the results of an official investigation that concluded that there had been political pressure on scientists. I gave a newspaper as the source, but I think that a better source can be found, perhaps the report itself. Count Iblis (talk) 13:43, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I found another drawer full of socks this morning. After 6 months, it's readily apparent that the 'drain the swamp' approach (which entails blocking his socks, his IPs, and his ranges) isn't working well, so I decided to adopt a new approach. This morning I fully protected a half-dozen or so of his favorite targets. (That's why you can't edit them) They had been semi-protected but that too was not working. I'm not sure if there is a technical fix that would allow you to edit them while preventing him from doing it. Raul654 (talk) 13:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't that seem a little like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, or shooting a fly with a rocket launcher? We can't fully protect all of these actively edited pages to deal with one vandal (especially when I didn't see his latest round of edits on some of them, so it's more of a preemptive strike). What are we going to do, leave these pages fully protected forever? I think this should be undone, or at least some discussion should be had as to whether this is the best step. As far as I can tell, fully protecting a page in response to a sockpuppet is contrary to both the letter and the spirit of WP:PROT. I assume that administrators such as yourself and others on the pro-AGW side (there aren't any regular 'skeptic' editors who are admins as far as I know) wouldn't use this protection to edit these pages as they see fit, but I still believe that if the decision is to be made to protect these pages it should at least be done by an admin who isn't regularly involved. Oren0 (talk) 16:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think this discussion is better had at Talk:Global warming and I've pasted it there. Oren0 (talk) 16:20, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Replied there. Raul654 (talk) 16:30, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Raul654. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Yours, Oren0 (talk) 18:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Check an RFCU report?

Hi Raul, I filed an RFCU report a few minutes ago due to vandalizing at Evolution, it can be found Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser#Xted. From what I remember this is a recurring vandel, and I figured you were probably familiar with him/her. Just wanted to let you know, so the right connections could be made. Thanks, R. Baley (talk) 16:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's tilejoin. Raul654 (talk) 16:30, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Interview for the Signpost Dispatch?

Mark—At the Workshop we've been planning to prepare a number of interviews of the people behind the FA process. Sandy has suggested that I interview you and wind your responses into an article to be published in the next few months. I guess it could involve the evolution of FAC, your role in it, your thoughts on it, anything you feel is relevant. The Q/A dialogue could be conducted via email or on a dedicated page. It would probably be heavily tweaked for journalistic reasons, with your approval necessary for the final draft. What do you think? TONY (talk) 17:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a good idea. I'm game. I think a dedicated page would be better than email, IMO. Raul654 (talk) 17:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If the Assessment Dispatch doesn't come through for the 16th, we may need something then, so I hope you two get crackin' just in case :-) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Too late

This is too late. He is already gone. I am fairly irritated myself. See my talk page or user page.--Filll (talk | wpc) 18:50, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And unfortunately here is another one biting the dust.--Filll (talk | wpc) 19:07, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawing an FA candidate

Do you by anychance know how to withdraw an article from being a featured article candidate? -- Jamie jca (talk) 20:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. If the nominator wants to withraw a nomination, he can move it from the FAC to the failed FAC nomination page Raul654 (talk) 20:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

TFA June 12

Thank you for scheduling The World Without Us on June 12. I realize that many FAs do not get this TFA honor and it is greatly appreciated when it happens. When my first FA reached the main page I felt like I was initiated into some kind of club and I would like to be present for this one, too. However, I (the principal author & DYK/GA/FA nominator) will be away from June 10 to 13 (out of town work conference). Is it possible to re-schedule this to a later date? And, if I may be so bold as to suggest similar alternative articles for that date: Night (book) (50 year anniversary - 1958) & The Well of Loneliness (80 year anniversary - 1928). -maclean 21:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What I'll do is bump The World Without Us to a few days later, on or around the 15th. Raul654 (talk) 21:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A Barnstar for fighting sock puppetry

The Editor's Barnstar
Your determined efforts to fight sock puppetry are appreciated. Kauffner (talk) 06:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but until and unless either (1) the pages are reprotected, or (2) some other acceptable solution for dealing with Scibaby is devised, I am going to stop dealing with him. Apparently the time I spent was little appreciated. So all the people who thought it wasn't such a big deal and didn't warrant full protection can now deal with it themselves. Raul654 (talk) 18:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Natural consequences work; others will see what will happen. But I've also noticed the inordinate amounts of time TimVickers has lost to this sock, and it irritates me that he has been taken away from article work and we haven't seen him at FAC in months. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:53, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the one that gives Tim Vickers problems is TileJoin. The message above referred to Scibaby, who is actally the more disruptive of the two. Raul654 (talk) 19:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
ah, I see; corrected. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:00, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not unappreciated - quite the opposite. I very much appreciate your work, and i bet that we'll be back begging you, to continue ;). (at least if i'm not mistaken and this is scibaby in a new incarnation...). --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 20:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You are not mistaken - it's Scibaby. Raul654 (talk) 20:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I feel ignored! ;-)
But seriously, many of us appreciate your help, especially with socks. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Raul - your contributions are appreciated when seen. I haven't given you a barnstar because you have enough, but you certainly have my thanks. I hope I haven't given the impression that I don't appreciate your work, just because I disagree about the prot. When not seen (as in the case of scibaby socks blocked before obviously active), they aren't, which is regrettable. I hope you don't lose your interest in GW articles. Can we do some kind of deal for putting what look like scibaby socks - as TY was starting to look like - up for confirmation by you? Hopefully that would be less work for you than chasing them yourself, which I agree is burdensome William M. Connolley (talk) 21:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't that hard to see; anyone who has Raul's talk page watchlisted knows how much time he's had to waste on this, and has seen the effect (of a different sock) on Tim Vickers as well. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Its a bad case of damned if we do, and damned if we don't :( --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 21:17, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth Raul, I appreciate what you've done dealing with these vandals as well. Just because we have philosophical differences about how best to handle this problem doesn't diminish my respect for all of the work you put in. It's a shame that you've decided to stop dealing with this issue, but I do believe we'll be able to keep things under control. Oren0 (talk) 21:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:WEIGHT

Hi any chance of you 'weighing in' on the subject of balance in use of sources. I've been trying to explain it to a user on Talk:Philosophy but without much success. The sources he wants are fine in themselves, i.e. represent significant minority type views, but don't represent the whole thing. I'm not asking for any view on the subject matter itself (Philosophy is specialist subject, obviously), just a view on policy. Thanks. Peter Damian (talk) 10:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Very happy if someone Peter trusts would weigh in. I am attempting to get cited sources with authority in place, and suggesting an approach in which we would not be dependent on Peter or other editors attempting to summarise the field which would constitute original research. My position is best summarised here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APhilosophy&diff=217932717&oldid=217930385 --Snowded (talk) 11:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The policy on question is WP:WEIGHT. This requires that, where reliable sources differ, a balance is achieved between different views. Peter Damian (talk) 15:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Checkuser activity

Would you be able to comment at Wikipedia talk:CheckUser#Activity levels of individual Checkusers? Thanks. Also, I know you are already aware of the thread, but the above post came from that thread, so I thought I should point out that I mentioned you there. Apologies if my impressions were mistaken. I think I should have asked you and Thatcher at your talk pages before mentioning your names at the ANI thread. This is one reason why I would like to see activity logs, as that would confirm impressions and correct mistaken impressions. Carcharoth (talk) 11:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RE: Bizzare edits

Hm... on further reading, that was Solomon I was thinking of (on critics of WP), I was mistaken. However, I assumed [1] was enough for the Skeptic category. ffm 22:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Oreskes, Naomi (2007). "The scientific consensus on climate change: How do we know we're not wrong?". In Joseph F. DiMento, Pamela Doughman (ed.). Climate Change. MIT Press. ISBN 026204241X. {{cite book}}: External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
Uh, not to point too fine a point on this, but if you read the article past the title, you'll see that its title is not rhetorical -- the article explains at length why we can be sure the consensus view is not wrong; that is, that the earth is indeed warming and human activity is causing it. Just read the final paragraph: And that sums up the problem. To deny that global warming is real is precisely to deny that humans have become geological agents, changing the most basic physical processes of the earth. For centuries, scientists thought that earth processes were so large and powerful that nothing we could do would change them... And once they were. But no more. There are now so many of us cutting down so many trees and burning so many billions of tons of fossil fuels that we have indeed become geological agents. We have changed the chemistry of our atmosphere, causing sea level to rise, ice to melt, and climate to change. There is no reason to think otherwise." Raul654 (talk) 23:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I was mistaken. ffm 23:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Help with username needed

Hello Raul,

I have recently consolidated my accounts on the several wikipedia projetcs having Ar wikipedia (account 135) as my home wiki. However, my accounts on some wikis, like here in EN wikipedia and on Ar wikisource, have different usernames and could not be consolidated.

I understand that accounts with different names cannot currently be consolidated. The problem is that as soon as I accessed EN wikipedia while logged on globally an account with the global username was automatically created, which naturally doesn't have my history or preferences.

Can you help me renaming my original account on EN wikipedia (User:Alef01) to أحمد and merging it with the global account and discarding the automatically created username here on EN wiki.

I now understand I should have requested a renaming of my account before merging, but I have now gotten my global account temporarily unlocked.

Your help will be appreciated.

--Alif (talk) 13:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

أحمد already exists, and when I try to rename it (to make way to rename your account) I get this error: Cannot rename user أحمد locally as this username has been migrated to the unified login system Raul654 (talk) 19:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'm beginning to understand how complex an operation this is. --Alif (talk) 20:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Smell of Unwashed Feet

...is in the air. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As long as people insist that the Scibaby problem is minor and doesn't warrant protection, then I'm only hurting my own cause by doing checkuser. The only way people will change their minds about protection is if they have to deal with it themselves instead of me doing it myself. So, file an RFCU, or block him on the basis of his behavior. (I don't know whether or not he's Scibaby -- I haven't checked, and I'm not going to)
I'm not doing this to be a dick, but I'm tired of dealing with this problem myself. Once the problems start to crop up, with more vandalism, more reverts, possibly innocent people being blocked mistakenly, and more consternation all around, hopefully that will start to change some minds where protection is concerned. But so as long as the article remains semi-protected, I'm done dealing with this problem. Raul654 (talk) 20:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, just want to say thanks for what you have done already to keep GW and related articles protected from this nuisance. Wish I could help you out, and even as a regular user, I think it was fair to try a full-prot to get your case heard. I think the solution lies somewhere between semi and full, but it's a solution that's not available. Anyway, I think you're probably right that this will change some folks' minds (I certainly don't want to constantly revert his silly edits and get accused of not AGF), but we'll just have to see. Regards, Jason Patton (talk) 21:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

TFA years of birth and death

Hello Raul! I'd be very interested in your feedback about a suggestion for placing the year of birth and death on the TFA blurb of biographies. There's a discussion here. Cheers, --Zvika (talk) 06:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A note about the Scibaby situation

I'm finding it hard to write kindly to you because of the intense disagreement I had with you over your claim that User:CreepyCrawly was a sock of Scibaby. I proved conclusively that, given the fact they were using two different IP addresses, and the fact that they interleaved four edits in a four-minute window, and extensive behavioral evidence of different methods and voices, CreepyCrawly and Scibaby were definitely two different people. I wrote on my blog how upset I was that you wrote: "It's possible that [CreepyCrawly is] not necessarily Scibaby." I thought it was an absolute certainty, given the accumulated evidence I had assembled over a three-day period, that CreepyCrawly was not Scibaby, and I could not understand why you failed to see what was obvious to me. The frustration in trying to fight an indefinite block on an innocent user, who would still be blocked were it not for my intervention, led directly to my decision to leave Wikipedia indefinitely. I returned about six weeks later.

Now I understand how Scibaby was causing you so much stress as to reduce your ability to assume good faith on any user without a substantial edit history arguing against the consensus on global warming articles. In my review of the Scibaby socks up to March 16, which I undertook comprehensively in order to contrast CreepyCrawly's activity with Scibaby's pattern, I gained an appreciation for just how disruptive this one person had become. I honestly have no idea how he does it, but he simply refuses to stop. I asked myself, along the way of proving CreepyCrawly's innocence, if anything could be done to stop this sockmaster. I supported the increase of autoconfirm because I knew it would deter sockpuppeteers from attacking semiprotected pages. I have not checked the recent sockpuppets' contribs, but I assume that Scibaby has simply made ten edits and then attacked the global warming pages, with essentially the same result as before. So I guess that strategy did not work.

Ironically, blatant page-move vandalism is much easier to deal with than Scibaby's attacks. It becomes immediately obvious that HAGGER??? is not the name of any nation or commonwealth on earth. I see no reason why thousands of pages can't be move-protected, but that is a separate concern that does not hinder good-faith editors in the least. Even with Taiketsu moving "global warming" to "global warming hoax", which I reported to ANI after it had lasted for 59 minutes - if I had not noticed that, someone else would have found it soon after. In contrast, with a sophisticated, sneaky vandal, it really is possible for his edits to sneak through the cracks if nobody is watching. Since your patience with this pest has been exhausted a long time ago, you took an extreme action, but one that I consider reasonable under the prevailing circumstance of consistent vandalism for the past six months and more. I believe that we as editors do not choose which pages to semi-protect or full-protect: the vandals choose for us. Scibaby made his choice, and you made a commensurate response. I supported TimVickers' protection of the Evolution article for the same reason. (See an edit by Special:Contributions/71.174.111.245 to AN or ANI: that was I.) I do not know if full protection was needed for all the pages you protected, but certainly Global Warming and IPCC needed it. I commend you for your reasonable response to a very difficult situation. I find it unfortunate that other users simply fail to comprehend the scale of the problem Scibaby has caused.

I worry with CreepyCrawly that instead of banning people, we may be moving in the direction of banning opinions. CreepyCrawly was accused of being a meatpuppet even if he was not a sockpuppet: that really made me lose my composure. We should never stop anyone from posting to the global warming page a dissenting opinion if that user does so in good faith: BOLD, revert, discuss still applies. But when that person is Scibaby, and when that person has used up your valuable time and patience tenfold, it is entirely appropriate to take extreme measures in response to extreme provocation, and I commend you for making a bold decision despite the criticism. I will support your right to make that decision even if others oppose it. You, of all people, by your tireless work on the Scibaby problem, have earned the right to say, "Enough is enough." Yechiel (Shalom) 22:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

October War categories

You didn't do the process right for listing the October War categories. First of all, you tacked the discussion onto an existing one instead of creating a new page. Furthermore, if you want categories to be deleted, they go to Categories for discussion, not Articles for deletion. I'll list these at Categories for Discussion for you. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 17:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops - that was me being careless, both for typing AFD instead of CFD, and not noticing that it was a templated discussion (CFD isn't, AFD is). Raul654 (talk) 18:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FAR

Raul, I'm afraid that you might think I think poorly of you after I made this comment. That's not true. I think very highly of you, and appreciate all of the work you've done for Wikipedia, in the past, and especially the recent past, knowing that it has built exponentially. Again, thank you for all of your work. —OverMyHead 07:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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