Talk:Nintendo Entertainment System

Template:V0.5

Correct date for release of the Power Set?

According to article: In December 1990, to coincide with the release of the Power Pad floor mat controller, Nintendo released a new Power Set bundle, consisting of the console, the Power Pad, the NES Zapper, two controllers, and a multicart containing Super Mario Bros., Duck Hunt, and World Class Track Meet.

However, my brother and I are certain that our family got the Power Set for Christmas 1988. Does anyone have corroborating evidence for the later date? Moreover, we have found a posting to the Usenet group [rec.games.video] from June 1989 by a Dartmouth student who stated that one could then still get Super Mario Brothers with the Power Set. Clearly, the December 1990 date is wrong. Rcharman 04:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Further evidence for the dates can be found at [slider.com] and [SuperMarioPlanet] and [everything2.com]. Rcharman 04:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

My abnormal NES

One day, I discovered something odd about my NES. When I stopped playing Super Mario Bros. 2, I wanted to swap games when I noticed that the cartridge was not pressed down. so I took it out and put it back in without pressing it down, and it functioned well. Then I pressed it down while the NES was off and it screwed up! Now it works both ways: pressed down and not pressed down. Does anyone know why this happened? --Plainnym 21:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Never heard of this before...sounds so weird! Maybe taking a look inside your actual NES might give off clues? FamicomJL 22:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Apparently, the game comes in contact with the console's contacts even without it pressed down, ergo, electricty flows between the cart's and consoles contacs. Nothing special, i think. 84.249.50.213 (talk) 21:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Opinionated Statements

I am changing this quote, " complete, playable, and fun. ", to "complete and playable" because the original statement is a personal opinion as to wether or not a game is fun. You can find this quote in the "Sprite limitations" section.--Psa- 11:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Here is another quote in the "Sprite limitations" section "which was developed by one of the most talented companies in existence.". There are many opinionated statements in this article that are going unnoticed.--Psa- 11:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Ive noticed this too. Maybe this article should be checked to see if its actually a "Featured Article" material? --24.47.193.183 23:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Modem/online functionality

Visited the page in order to find information about the japanese Famicom modem add-on. Couldn't find any, and I think maybe it's important enought to be mentioned, seeing as this makes the NES (as far as I know) the first console able to go online. Sources:

• http://www.thegamingrevolution.com/forums/showthread.php?s=8e57e8e966e8c8c249110127380c7d3c&p=223553
• http://www.siliconera.com/2006/09/05/nintendos-secret-online-past-the-famicom-modem/#more-1817

I wouldn't exactaly call the famicom modem full fledged online functionality, it was more of a gimmicky way to do things over telephone lines

metroid

metroid was never released on cartridge in japan. I have changed the article to reflect this oversight by the previous editor —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.181.159.193 (talk) 21:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

picture

this aricule should have a picture of a normal cartridgeEl Bean Burrito Mexicali 12:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Hardware flaws

When trying to start a game with my game genie, it won't work. It gives me a solid color screen that is a different color each time, ranging from greys to blues to greens. Is this a result of the bending connectors? And if there's a source, should it be added to the article? 216.237.235.137 21:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

HVC / Home Video Computer

I've removed the statement from the introduction about the original development name of the Famicom being the "Home Video Computer." It seems like, even if it is true, it's trivial enough that it doesn't really belong in the introductory paragraph. More seriously, though, there was no citation for the claim. Yes, the model numbers followed the HVC-* convention, but, then again, the Super Famicom models used SHVC-* (presumably Super Home Video Computer). If the HVC prefix indicated the original name that was changed late in development, why use the same convention for a system released years later? Or, as seems more likely to me, does the HVC moniker reflect something else entirely? If anyone has a reputable source to the contrary, I'm more than willing to be corrected, but the only information I could find on this in a web search was clearly sourced from this article.... – Sean Daugherty (talk) 00:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it stands for "Home Video Computer", but I don't remember it being supposed to be ORIGINALLY called that. I think it's just one of those quirky extra titles video game companies like to give out. Via my site,

www.famicomworld.com/Family_Computer/HVC_Product_Codes.htm

"Nintendo Co. Ltd. used a series of HVC product codes to catalogue what Family Computer items it produced, including systems, cartridges, and more. "HVC" stands for Home Video Computer."

However, in Hong Kong it was changed to "HKG", and the Disk System games used FMC instead of HVC as well. Jerah Cordova (JC), a staff member at my site, confirmed it in one way or another. I suggest asking him more information about it, because I'm not 100% sure on the whole HVC thing myself. FamicomJL 15:58, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Fixing game images

Has anyone had any thought on changing the game screenshots to something far more accurate to what a television would display (for example, with Nestopia's NTSC emulation)? The current shots appear to be vertically distorted, because they were obviously taken in an emulator displaying raw pixels before the NES' digital-to-analog converter. Pretty much all games were graphically designed with the shape of TVs themselves, not square pixels (and often, properties of NTSC itself like color bleeding, bluriness, etc). An easy-to-spot example of this would be Kirby's Adventure: in most emulators (displaying raw pixels), the beginning animation looks like a tall oval, whereas on a television, the animation looks like a circle; other games like Ghosts 'n Goblins depend on some NTSC properties to display colors that are not in the raw pixels themselves (or Legend of Zelda to make the water look wavy instead of some sparse dots...). --Mike 20:38, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I've done just that. I have, however, scaled down the images to 1/2 resolution: Nestopia's NTSC emulation produces images of approximately 600 pixel width, which greatly exceeds the recommended 300 pixel width for fair use raster images. I've done my best to recreate the original images as best as possible, but I couldn't do that with either the Super Mario Bros. image or the Wario's Woods image, since I didn't have the time to get to the end of either game. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 22:53, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

1 improvement suggestion: remove the black columns at the edges, it's inacurrate (ie. in the case of Super Mario Bros they should be sky blue), and it doesn't show on most tvs anyway. --Apathor 11:51, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bible adventures.jpg

Image:Bible adventures.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 01:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Free license replacement?

This particular issue has been resolved, but it only begs the question of why we're using a copyrighted image here in the first place. Admittedly, I have to take responsibility for uploading it in the first place, but now that I think about it, there's really no reason why we can't provide a free-licensed replacement for it. The problem there is that we'd need someone with a camera and the cartridge to take the picture. If it makes it any easier, for the purposes of this article, we don't even need a picture of Bible Adventures, per se, merely an unlicensed cartridge that deviates noticeably from the standard "look" of NES Game Paks. Is there anyone who can help with this? – Sean Daugherty (talk) 14:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

It ended up being kept for the same reason it's near-impossible to get a free picture of box art: the label art is copyrighted, and a picture of that still maintains the original copyright. However, someone should go back and write a fair use rationale that is compliant with the fair use rationale guideline. Source information (i.e. where did the image come from?) is also needed. Anomie 20:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

detailed pictures of case?

I plan to build a case for some hardware and thought that I should make it look like a NES. Do someone know where I can find detailed photos/drawings of the NES case? All 6 sides maybe? Thanks 84.177.199.31 22:21, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I recommend going to a retro gaming store or pawn shop and measuring one. However, this is not a forum for disussing the article's subject, but for discussing how to improve the article. Useight 05:50, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

My NES...

My brothers got their NES before I was born, so I really don't know what it is. I mean, I've never seen an NES like the one I have, here:

File:Nintendo Entertainment System.JPG

Anyone want to tell me what it is? You can use it for the article too, if you want. Xihix 22:39, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe Nintendo updated the design around 1995, and that's the updated version. The article mentioned something about it previously but I can't seem to find it now.

--Anss123 23:28, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Found it, here: [1]. It's from 1993, rare and called the NES 2.

--Anss123 23:32, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Wanna add it to the article? You may use that pic. I have two other ones pics too, if you want them. Xihix 00:01, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Sure, It's a nice image. I'll find some place to fit it in.--Anss123 08:55, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I see that someone has already added it. Thanks for the image anyway.--Anss123 08:57, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's the NES 2 and it works a whole lot better than the first one because the cartridge is inserted vertically instead of horizontally causing less wear on the pins. This design was continued with the SNES and N64. Useight 04:14, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

"This design was continued with the SNES" can't be correct, considering the Super Famicom was released 3 years before the NES 2... Anomie 20:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Converting a nes controller to work on a pc

i believe that there should be mentioning about converting the nes controller to work on a pc in full detial about what tools u need, how to do it and what setup u need to do to get it working on the pc. i have found a website which is pretty useful which is http://www.joystiq.com/2004/09/07/how-to-make-a-nintendo-controller-into-a-pc-joystick/ but i hyavent tried it out yet but im going to but i would like to get more information about it before i proceed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pauldonald86 (talk • contribs)

No, please don't. You'll just be waisting your time. Very few Wikipedia readers will be interested in that much detail, so a link to a how-to guide is more than enough.--Anss123 20:05, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention that they can be purchased online "pre-USB'ed" by searching "nes" and "usb". Vendors sell them either adapted or in "kits" on eBay and on private websites. Also, it requires a special and rare USB controller chip to work. Mtrying to make your own is a waste of time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.203.251.157 (talk) 01:24, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

"Also, it requires a special and rare USB controller chip to work" -- actually it seems the main issue is the code, retrozone is trying to make money out of kits and so isn't releasing thier code but I bet you could find some gamepad code for the USB pics that could be adapted to the purpose without too much trouble. Plugwash (talk) 02:43, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

NES does not use a ZIF socket

Why does this article say that the NES used a ZIF socket? That really isn't true whatsoever. It was a slot loading thing much like an ISA or PCI card in a PC.

A slot can be Zero insertion force, I would suppose...but I don't think the NES was such. You had to push it in with a significant amount of force. Locarno

The main characteristic of a zif is that you insert the device (in this case the cart) with relatively little force because you don't make contacts at that stage and then perform some other action to make the actual contact. IIRC with the nes you inserted the cartridge first which did not make any contacts. then pressed it down making all the contacts which is a similar principle.

Unfortunately while this mech considerablly reduced cartridge wear it was far more susceptible to dirt than a traditional scraping edge connector as used in most cart based consoles. It was also far more susceptible to losing the springyness in the contacts exasperating the problem. Plugwash (talk) 02:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

The "Blow Job"

When I was a kid, I never owned an NES (I was a Sega kid) but occasionally rented one or went to friends houses that had them, because I really digged a game called "Baseball Stars". My experience with NES systems are that we would have to give them a "blow job" to get them to work after prolonged use, or even on an old console that has been used for a year or more. What I mean is we would have to blow into the cartridges and into the system, jokingly saying "giving the NES a BJ to make it happy". We would conclude that we were blowing out dust or something in order to get it to work again. It usually worked. I am sure many others experienced this, but I am interested if there is any more details on this and if anything about it can be put in the article.--Mista-X 00:54, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Does the article about PlayStation say that one should clean the CD with a rug before playing? -- ReyBrujo 03:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

All cartridge based consoles, even the SMS, can suffer from this, but you're right that the NES was particularly finicky.

From the article: The official NES Cleaning Kit was intended to address flaws in the NES design that caused cartridge connectors to be particularly susceptible to interference from dirt and dust.

--Anss123 09:45, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The expansion port?

The expansion port is mentioned a few times in the article, but it is never stated what it is for, and how many if any games used it, and if any, what it was used for. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.10.190.156 (talk • contribs)

Best Selling Game System?

In the article it's claimed that the NES is the best selling game system of all time, but I'm fairly sure that that title belongs to the PS2 (at the very least more PS2's were sold then NES's). —Preceding unsigned comment added by TDS18 (talk • contribs) 18:23, July 25, 2007 (UTC)

Where does it claim that? The only statements I see claim that it had become the best-selling console in 1990. Since the PS2 was almost a decade away, this statement would appear to be true. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 20:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The way it's worded implies that the record has yet to be broken. I'll change it to make it more clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.252.254.249 (talk) 00:58, July 26, 2007 (UTC)

Ugh, I don't like that wording. Unfortunately, I don't have anything better to suggest at the moment. Anomie 02:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I changed it to by 1990 the NES had outsold all previously released consoles. I think that is well written and makes it clear that it is discussing a past event. --69.156.206.142 02:59, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

This seems to be spill-over from a similar dispute over the PlayStation 2 article, but the statement of the NES being "the most successful gaming console of its time in Asia and North America" has been softened to "best-selling". While I feel the previous wording is actually more appropriate, as the NES fulfills the claim by pretty much every significant criterion (market share, hardware revenue, software revenue, profits, global mind share, effects on the company's market value and influence on the industry, etc.), and the original wording better describes that. Rather than simply revert-warring, I feel the best way to approach the matter is to request some input on adding coverage of those other aspects, perhaps in the History of the Nintendo Entertainment System sub-article. According to WP:WEASEL#Don't hide the important facts, attributable peacock statements can be appropriate as summary statements, "for purposes of establishing a subject's notability in an introductory sentence or paragraph", to be expanded upon in more detail afterward. Can anyone point me to some relevant sources? Dancter 19:54, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I think you're right, they can't get away with "most successful ever" on PS2 so they decide to be pointy and remove "most successful of its generation" from this article and add an excessive number of {{fact}} tags. Anyway, all of these IIRC can be sourced to Kent, Steven L. The Ultimate History of Video Games: The Story Behind the Craze that Touched our Lives and Changed the World. Roseville, California: Prima Publishing. ISBN 0-7615-3643-4.; your library might have it. {{Sheff, David. Game Over: How Nintendo Zapped an American Industry, Captured Your Dollars, and Enslaved Your Children (First ed.). New York: Random House, Inc. ISBN 0-679-40469-4. (or another edition) probably also has good information. Online, there might be something at 1up.com, which I mention mainly so I don't lose the link. Anomie 11:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's a source that indicates the NES was the most successful in its generation: http://www.gametunnel.com/articles.php?id=263. Quote: "...but the Nintendo Entertainment System was a cultural phenomenon both in the US and abroad."--Silver Edge 06:50, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

It's still seems to be based on console sales. Given my arguments in the related PS2 dispute, what I would prefer is a source using another quantitative metric of success in order to quell JTBX's seemingly petty behavior regarding this article. Which isn't to say I would revert anyone who tries to change it back. Dancter 23:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Top-Selling Game

Wouldn't this more accurately be Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt? It sold far more than the standalone SMB cartridge or SMB/Duck Hunt/WCTM. Phediuk 13:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

citation needed for statement about blowing in the cartidges

i was under the impression that blowing in the cartidges actually made a difference, and i think quite a few people believed this. if it isn't true, then a source needs to be cited. 81.168.22.81 22:27, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Verb tense

From an earlier discussion at SNES:

A question: If we continue to use the present tense for this console, for how long do we use it? Until the last console stops working? If, twenty-five years from now, it is confirmed that there are only 28 of these consoles, and only one is in operating condition, will we still use the present tense? What if none of them are working? What if they've all been thrown away? What is it that will define the "end" of the present tense—that the game is no longer being used, that copies of it no longer exist, or just that it's no longer remembered? Perhaps we should change the verb tense in this game's article to the present tense? It just seems to me that, since the game is no longer being produced, no longer being marketed by its manufacturer, no longer being retailed by first-run stores, no longer receiving technical support for its owners, that the time has come for the past tense. Unschool 20:53, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Is there any particular reason that you're citing a discussion that reached no consensus in support of your position? Anyway, I'm sick of seeing this argument being repeated over and over, hopefully [WT:VG#"is a video game console" vs "was a video game console"|WikiProject Video games]] can reach a real consensus. Anomie 12:12, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Uncited Statements

While reading through this article I counted thirteen statements in need of citation. A featured article should not contain that many uncited statements. There are two possible solutions to this problem. Either find sources for the statements in need of citation, or remove the statements from the article entirely. --CP 61 23:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I just removed the unsourced statements from the article, though I'm not really sure if this should be a Featured Article anymore. The article could use a lot more references (the Wii article has like more than 90), and one section needs to be converted to prose. I wish I could help more, but I'm not too familiar with the subject material. My apologies. Cat's Tuxedo 23:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't know enough about the subject material to help, but you know enough to remove random content? Anyway, I'm copying the deleted statements here so they can be re-added once someone finds sources:

• The Nintendo Family Computer (Famicom) was slow to gather momentum; during its first year, many criticized the system as unreliable, prone to programming errors and rampant freezing.

  (Kent or Sheff, or whatever source is used for the very next sentence in the article) (found in Kent)

• (called the Sega Genesis in North America because of trademark issues)

  I found a good reference and added it to Sega Mega Drive, but on further reflection there is no need to mention "because of trademark issues" here. The rest is obvious, so I've re-added it. Anomie 16:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

• Blowing on the cartridge connectors was, in most cases, no better than removing and reinserting the cartridge, and tended to increase the rate of oxidation resulting in browning of the printed circuit board, while slapping the side of the system after inserting the cartridge could potentially damage the console.

  (The hitting should be obvious; not so sure about the oxidation)

• Nintendo combined this with a marketing campaign introducing the Nintendo Seal of Quality. Commercials featured a purple-robed wizard instructing consumers that the Nintendo Seal of Quality was the only assurance that a game was any good—and, by implication, that any game without the Seal of Quality was bad. In reality, the seal meant that the developer had paid the license fee.
  
  The business side of this was that game developers were now forced to pay a license fee to Nintendo, to submit to Nintendo’s quality assurance process, to buy developer kits from Nintendo, and to utilize Nintendo as the manufacturer for all cartridges and packaging. Nintendo tested and manufactured all games at its own facilities (either for part of the fee or for an additional cost), reserved the right to dictate pricing, censored material it believed to be unacceptable, decided how many cartridges of each game it would manufacture, and placed limits on how many titles it would permit a publisher to produce over a given time span (five per year). This last restriction led several publishers to establish or utilize subsidiaries to circumvent Nintendo’s policies (examples including Konami’s subsidiary Ultra, and Acclaim Entertainment’s subsidiary LJN).
  
  These practices were intended not only to keep developers on a short leash, but also to manipulate the market itself: in 1988, Nintendo started orchestrating intentional game shortages in order to increase consumer demand. Referred as "inventory management" by Nintendo of America public relations executive Peter Main, Nintendo would refuse to fill all retailer orders. Retailers, many of whom derived a large percentage of their profit from sales of Nintendo-based hardware and software (at one point, Toys "R" Us reported 17% of its sales and 22% of its profits were from Nintendo merchandise), could do little to stop these practices. In 1988, over 33 million NES cartridges were sold in the United States, but estimates suggest that the realistic demand was closer to 45 million.

  (Kent or Sheff, except maybe the "In reality..." and the statement that it was orchestrated rather than that orchestration was alleged)

• Although successful in its suit against Tengen, Nintendo’s overall track record at suing unlicensed developers was mixed: the case of Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. was found in favor of Galoob and its Game Genie device, for instance. Most unlicensed developers were eventually forced out of business or out of production by legal fees and court costs for extended lawsuits brought by Nintendo against the companies. One notable exception was Color Dreams, who produced Christian video games under the subsidiary name Wisdom Tree. This operation was never sued by Nintendo.

  (Kent or Sheff)

• As the NES fades into memory, many such systems have adopted case designs which mimic more recent game consoles. NES clones resembling the Sega Genesis, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System, and even more recent systems like the Nintendo GameCube, the Sony PlayStation 2 and the Microsoft Xbox have been produced.

  (Reviews would be good, or primary sources would be acceptable because all we need here is proof-of-existence of famiclones resembling the named consoles)

• often resulting in poor sound quality.

  (this one is probably bogus)

As for the "lack" of references, the article was featured at a time when inline references were not required; I suspect much of the above can be found in the references used then. I know much of it can also be found in Kent (2001) or Sheff (1993). Anomie 13:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

"NES Files"

Be sure to check out this user. The website he is trying to promote is not exactly legit. --blm07 17:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Legit? Dkalweit (talk) 13:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

No, it is not. It is a spam link and the site appears to host ROMS, something that is grossly against the external links policy.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 19:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Dkalweit: For a statement to be "libel", do note that the statement must be untrue. "Legit" means "Accordant with law or with established legal forms and requirements; lawful", which a site distributing commercial ROMs in violation of copyright law is not, so the statement that the site is not legit is true. Such a site is also completely against Wikipedia's copyright policy and the guideline on external links. I also suggest you read WP:COI, as your only purpose here seems to be to promote that site. Thank you. Anomie⚔ 18:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Sound chip info?

I notice that under the sound subsection there is information about the capabilities of the onboard sound chip, but not the make/model of it. I think this information needs to be added, as the make and model of the CPU and PPU is noted. Firthy (talk) 21:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Eastern European Consoles

The article says that the NES was called Pegasus when it was released in Eastern Europe (at least Poland). If you look at the Polish Wikipedia you can find an article on Pegasus. I don't think this was an official Nintendo release but a clone, like the Dendy. Is this assumtion correct? If it is please remove this information from "Regional Differences" and put it with "Harware Clones".--Fantastic fred (talk) 16:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I wrote a mail to the webmaster of pegasus-gry.com and he said that Pegasus was a "cheap falsification" of the NES which got the same games as the original console. He doesn't know anymore if the real NES was officially sold in Poland, but it was easy to buy a "Pegasus". -85.180.225.218 (talk) 23:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I changed it in the article. -92.227.75.51 (talk) 12:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

How many NES's are left and how much is a NES worth today?

I have had my NES for many years and it works 100% and I don't play it anymore and I want to sell it and I wanted to know how much I could sell it for. ie. If NES's are hard to find and it is like acollectable it would be worth a lot. --74.170.232.205 (talk) 01:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Noone knows exactly how many nes consoles are left but they were sold in such huge volume that they are unlikely to become particularlly rare for a long time. Looking at ebay.co.uk ( [2] ) it seems that most of the auctions I find for the console alone have a current bid under £20 and even buy it now listings are only arround £30. Games can push the price up considerablly depending on exactly what games they are (though you may make more selling the games and console seperately especially if the games are rare) Plugwash (talk) 14:36, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

If you have the Mario Bros series, the original Zelda, Tecmo Bowl, those games go for a decent price. Game Genie, Power Pad, Zapper, Power Glove, R.O.B., those will drive the price up considerably as well. Useight (talk) 16:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Palette

Is this image accurate? It seems to be in line with this web page that we use as a reference, but I wonder if there's a way to calculate what the RGB values should be given a certain display gamma (as for example in the article gamma correction). Shinobu (talk) 23:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

What about backgrounds/tiles

Sprites are detailed, but nothing is said about background/tile capabilities beyond that they too are limited to 3+1 colours. Shinobu (talk) 02:59, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

NES Donkey Kong.png and NES Super Mario Bros.png

Neither image's Fair use rationale extends to this article. The images are only fair use in the Donkey Kong (arcade game) and Super Mario Bros. articles,respectively. Until they have Fair use rationals for this article, I have removed them from this article for the time being. 99.230.152.143 (talk) 22:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

"Ness" or "Enn-Ee-Ess"

I tried to remove the nonsense about the one-word pronunciation, as the official pronunciation is indeed to sound out each letter, and i even provided a link to an old commercial but i still got reverted. So, in addition to that first link i provided, here are 8 more, all of which clearly say "Enn-Ee-Ess":

copyvio links removed Anomie⚔ 23:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

While searching for these, not once did I come up with a result anywhere calling it the "Ness". Now, even if you want to tell me that one video doesn't make it an official pronunciation, NINE videos with the same trend, with NONE saying the opposite, does. As for the claim that "official or not, people pronounce it in several different ways" is bogus. First of all, we're not going to accept "noo-kyoo-lar" as a correct pronunciation of "nuclear" are we? Secondly, the pronunciation of "Ness" itself is unverifiable and after seeing every single official mention of it pronounced as three letters, claiming that anyone in Nintendo ever intended it to be called "Ness" is original research. This places the burden of proof on you to prove that it can acceptably be called that, not onto me to prove that it cannot, and until such time as proof is given, the convention should be "an NES" and the note should be removed. — DeFender1031 23:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the links to copyright violations from the post above. As for the post above, I doubt Nintendo actually intended any particular pronunciation for "NES", and despite your random claims people do pronounce it both "ness" and "nezz" (and probably "Nintendo") in addition to "en ee es". But I'm not going to edit war over this. Go ahead and change it to "an NES" if you want, and it'll sit until someone else comes along and changes it back. Woo-hoo. Anomie⚔ 23:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, they're in the page history for anyone who wants to see them, and i personally think that using them for proof here falls under fair use and that if whoever uploaded them to youtube did so in violation, that's youtube's job to sort out, not ours. Be that as it may, i'd like to settle this, as the convention currently on wikipedia is not set. I've seen pages with "a NES" and "an "NES", the former of which is, as i have just shown, incorrect. I am curious why you keep glossing over my point of an official pronunciation, and merely claim that "since people say it, it makes it okay". You did not make a single counterargument to my statements. If you have any proof to the pronunciation, i would love to see it, and find a way to incorporate it into the article. If no such proof exists however, then we should follow the official sources, which say N-E-S. — DeFender1031 23:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I was going to be nice and not leave {{uw-copyright-link}} on your talk page, but if you really want it I can go ahead. As for the rest, I said I'm not going to argue about it with you, because frankly I have enough to deal with at the moment without arguing something incredibly pointless with a closed-minded individual. Anomie⚔ 00:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I am not close-minded. I am incredibly open to any proof you might have. You haven't provided any, instead skirting around my points without ever addressing them. As for the links, fair use on our part makes us not responsible for where and how we come by those links. Let youtube handle it. — DeFender1031 00:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I've heard both versions of the pronunciation being uttered by a variety of people, so based on anectotal evidence, the previously removed comment, has some credence in my opinion. This video (around time 1:12) is an example of a person that uses "Nez" and "Snez", lending validity to the claim. --Stux (talk) 23:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Anecdotal evidence is not a verifiable source and that cideo of yours is in no way official, first party OR third party. — DeFender1031 23:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's your verifiable source: http://snes.org.uk/ See content note "A", which in turn has further verifiable sources. --Stux (talk) 04:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem here is over what's official and what isn't, so I modified the article to reflect it. I think we can all agree that NOA themselves calls it the N-E-S, while there also exist people who call it NES. 217.132.155.37 (talk) 05:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

True, and your modification was good except for the part about the indefinite article, which should always be "an" following the official method. — DeFender1031 05:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

You'll find that your change has already been reverted back. Useight (talk) 05:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Look again, i simply removed the part about the indefinite article. — DeFender1031 05:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

That's what I was referring to. Useight (talk) 05:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what you're fighting about now, but DeFender1031 raises a good point here, which I think I agree with. Since it's officially pronounced as N-E-S, the indefinite article should be "an". I don't think we change between "a" and "an" just because many people pronounce the following word incorrectly. 217.132.155.37 (talk) 05:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I'm really tired. I thought we were talking about N-E-S versus "ness". I'll leave you two to discuss "a" versus "an". I gotta get some sleep. Useight (talk) 05:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

A Wikipedia article is not a suitable "verifiable source", even if the copy being referenced is hosted on another site. And those further "reliable sources" are forum threads. WP:RS covers this is in some depth. As for snes.org.uk, I would even go so far as to say that with no original content whatsoever, it is a blatant spam site, crudely designed to skim a Google News search, and repost the search results as blog posts. Dancter (talk) 06:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Wading into this, I think generally NES as a word as opposed to a initilisim is more widely accepted, if not more prevalent in The UK at least, so we need to be careful not to create a US-Centric view. See http://waxy.org/2008/05/bbc_twos_the_net_episodes_from_1994/ for a (Not very good to cite) example.

No "Official" source exists on this either way, but a quick scoot across the internet shows many people asking this question, and the feedback is split between the two: http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=mozclient&num=100&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=Pronounce+SNES & http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=mozclient&num=100&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=Pronounce+NES

I think the best research in this particular case is in the reliable sources noticeboard - This archive is about the SNES but, by logical extension it must apply to the NES, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_1#.22How_do_you_pronounce_SNES.3F.22

Again, it mentions Nintendo Power, but as stated, it sound like it was more a straw office poll, and this is a US Publication, with no input from Nintendo Europe.

I see no problem with saying about the two pronunciations - it would be like not mentioning World of Warcraft is commonly abriavated to WoW, as it's not "Official." As far as I'm aware, the only official comment is Always say Nintendo Entertainment System, no mater how it's written, much like they always insisted on NINTENDO GAMECUBE in written literature.81.137.159.61 (talk) 16:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Adding Links to NES Game Pages?

Hi, this may not be the proper place to ask this question, but I was wondering what the policy is for adding links to NES game pages? I ask this because I added a lot of external links to my site (neshq.com) from NES game pages on Wikipedia once before and they got removed. I feel like [most of] these links should be here since in many cases the NES HQ page is the single most comprehensive (or one of the most comprehensive) information center for a particular game. I noticed that MobyGames has a link on every NES game page I've visited and these pages usually don't actually contain much info on the games. Hopefully this is the right place to ask this question, but if not, can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks! (Neshq (talk) 00:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC))

Try asking at WT:VG. Anomie⚔ 11:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Duck Hunt/Gyromite/ROB Bundle did NOT include Super Mario Bros.

The article misleads and seems to indicate this bundle included SMB. It did not in fact include the game. I can't find a good source for this, however, I see no proof in this article that it DID inlcude it either. I don't want to start arguements or anything but I got the bundle when I was a kid and I remember for 100% certainty there was no SMB. It was only Gyromite and Duck Hunt. Help! I tried to edit and it got reverted. I am NOT vandalising.--Scottymoze (talk) 04:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Look! http://www.dawdle.com/product.php/nes-deluxe-set-5ef05 --Scottymoze (talk) 04:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

And... http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Nintendo-ROB-Robot-NES-Deluxe-Set-in-Original-Box_W0QQitemZ190235091463QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190235091463--Scottymoze (talk) 04:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

We just need to change "...two additional game packs" to "...two game packs" and I'll be a happy dude. Thanks to whoever can help!--Scottymoze (talk) 04:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:VG External Links check

This Featured Article has four dead external links, which can be found here. Please fix them as soon as possible. Thanks! --haha169 (talk) 23:07, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

nes_games.pdf link is dead. Accessdate could be updated (2005!) — Dispenser 00:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Prices

After a recent edit by 76.127.210.159, I decided to do some additional searching on historical price information, and I was surprised to find other sources of the time similarly indicating a much lower price point than the prices currently cited, which are more common on web.

• http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q="Nintendo+Entertainment+System"&sa=N&sugg=d&as_user_hdate=1987

I figured it would be good to raise the issue here, in the hopes that someone with access to other resources could clarify the matter. The only explanations I can think of are that prices dropped dramatically in the first year, or the commonly-cited prices are somehow misleading. Dancter (talk) 22:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I noted that the link the IP user mentioned was to a Christmas advertising catalog from the year after the NES's release; it could well be that Sears slashed the price to increase sales of the hot new item. Also, most likely the prices in the article are the MSRPs from the release date; it's possible retailers sold it for less even before an "official" price drop. Anomie⚔ 00:03, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I just find it very odd. As early as June 1986, newspaper articles were citing the price of the Control Deck at $99. That's half the currently-stated price, four months after the system had a nationwide release. Conversely, I couldn't find any newspaper articles of the time mentioning the $199 or $250 prices. If this is a matter of the common price diverging significantly from the MSRP, that's something that should be addressed, just as the release date has been. Dancter (talk) 16:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Date for release of Action Set is inaccurate

The article says the Action Set (NES+zapper, SMB/Duck Hunt) was released in November 1988. But that can't be right because I remember having that set no later than Christmas 1987, and possibly earlier. --ScottJ (talk) 18:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Wer'nt Duck Hunt a 1985 nes launch tilte? mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 11:55, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Edit, Japan, discounied.

I have changed this article with a sourced edit, that says that the NES instead of incorectly being discounied in Japan in October 2003, (without the snes.) that it was discounied in Japan in September 2003 with the SNES, I have a OFFIAL source for that, so please can no-one edit my edit, to change my article as it IS releavent. Thankyou, mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 13:04, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of the discussion was to merge Nintendo AVS into History of the Nintendo Entertainment System#North America per the recommendations and consensus to merge. MuZemike 00:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

---

I propose that Nintendo AVS be merged into Nintendo Entertainment System. I believe that the NES's prototype can be much better explained concisely in the context of this article. Please discuss below, as well as indicate whether you support or oppose the merger. Thank you, MuZemike (talk) 19:01, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Probably better just to merge it into History of the Nintendo Entertainment System#North America. The AVS is not really significant enough for any real coverage in the main NES article. Dancter (talk) 19:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I forgot about the history article. That's not a bad idea. MuZemike (talk) 21:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think the history article would be a better fit. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 21:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Anyone who wants more info should read "The Ultimate History of Video Games". The AVS was just a normal Famicom with a "AVS" label stuck on so Nintendo could try and sell the system to retailers (this was when the game market was still basically dead in North America). When they failed to sell any, they re-named it to the NES (to avoid the game image) and introduced stuff like the Zap Gun. It was nothing more than a codename basically for the NES, it would be like having a separate article for the Katana (the working name for the Dreamcast). TJ Spyke 16:58, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I actually did check out and read that book from my city's public library this past spring (as I have used the book a bit as a source for some of the material in the Game Boy article), but I cannot remember exactly what the book's author said about the NES prototype. It still doesn't seem like anything that could warrant its own independent article and, as I said earlier, can better be explained in the context of the NES. MuZemike 00:16, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

note d

Where is the d note, from the first sentence? OboeCrack (talk) 17:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Ya, I noticed that too. It leads to nowhere..... We should fix it. nevermind, we don't know where it is supposed to lead to, so we can't fix it. DOES SNYBODY KNOW WHERE IT IS SUPPOSED TO LEAD TO??? HELP WOULD BE ^{VERY MUCH}APPRECIATED.

---

039919930iloveanagramssmarganaevoli039910030 (Talk to 039919930iloveanagramssmarganaevoli039910030) 21:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of the Game Save section in the article

Last night, I removed the section on the NES's capability of saving games from the article, and the original author of the section has undone my changes. Rather than have this devolve into an edit war, I'm hoping to get some support behind me for this, so I don't look like a raving lunatic.

My reasoning for deleting the section is as follows:

• The section features a great number of spelling and grammar errors, including at least three different spellings of the word "console."
  • If you see mistakes why don't you just fix it...instead of attacking another User's entire article and jepordize its existance. Read more belowSchnitzelMannGreek.
• The section seems to suggest that the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) and the Nintendo 64 included the capablity of saving games, which is inaccurate at best. The SNES lacked saving capabilities as well. Furthermore, the SNES and (most) N64 games saved using battery-backed RAM in the game cartridge, which isn't a component of the console, as the the section seems to imply.
• The section includes a great number of opinions on games being "short" and Nintendo including Warp Pipes in order to make up for the fact that the NES lacked saving capabilities
• The page cited in this section makes no reference to game saves of any sort
• Games could be saved with the Famicom Disk System
• The entire section is moot, as it ignores the fact that The Legend of Zelda and Final Fantasy both included battery-backed RAM for saving games.

I attempted to describe this as best as possible in my changenote, but it seems this has gone ignored. I'm going to edit it back, but I was kind of hoping to pre-emtptively make my case, should things go horribly wrong. Zirka (talk) 17:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it was actually ignored. SchnitzelMannGreek did try to incorporate your caveats into the section. I just don't think the section was appropriate. It has more to do with general console history than the NES itself, and is already covered in the saved game article. Dancter (talk) 18:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

KEEPWhen I was thinking about getting an NES before I really did(3 MONTHS AGO)-I wandered about this and had to do alot of research to find my answer. Having this section would have greatly helped me. I think others might find it helpful for its nesscessary about the game and is told in a straight-forward and understandalbe way. As for the Nintendo 64 and SNES- those can all save(i have them). The game Super Mario 64 is a classic exammple of a game with saving(its nesscessary for the game is long). Likewise-Super Mario World to the SNES CAN SAVE. Please CONSIDER PUTTING THIS BACK-iT DOESN'T HURT BUT ACTUALLY HELPS. sOME USERS LIKE MYSELF WOULD have gone to the NES article rather than a Saved Game Article. The saved game article doesn't even say that straightforwardly.Please respond on my talk page.SchnitzelMannGreek. 22:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Nintendo 64 and SNES games have pretty much the same variety of game-save options as the NES. Some use a Controller Pak, some have internal battery backup, a few use passwords, and some have no save options whatsoever. Even on the NES, battery backup wasn't that rare. Before the "32-bit era", it was pretty much a necessity for role-playing games outside Japan. Dancter (talk) 00:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I see what you're saying but I have all of those systems and it's definately different for the NES. You can't save your game of Super Mario Bros. on the NES. When they came out with super mario world and super mario bros. for SNES- it allowed saving.I didn't know that at first and this section would have been useful. I sited my sources and its in correct wiki format. I dont see why you have to delete it.SchnitzelMannGreek. 02:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

None of your sources seemed to directly verify anything you added. One of them was even a self-reference to Wikipedia. Again, this has more to do with general console history (and maybe game design), not something intrinsic to the NES. Games for the Sega Master System also didn't have game-saving to the degree of its successors. Battery backup was just starting to become viable around that time. 3D graphics, analog control, and online features were also less common in those days, but were more common in later generations. Few first-person shooters, numerous side-scrolling platformers. While someone may find that information helpful, those things do not belong in this article. There is a point at which the reader is to look up a related article for information, rather than expecting everything in one article. Dancter (talk) 16:54, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Famicom VS. Famicon

Should Famicom really be used? Since the linguistically correct translation of Famicom (ファミコン) would be Famicon, since it ends with a 'n' not follow by a 'p'-based syllable (see below). Plus even then it's not really fully standard to transliterate the 'n' to a 'm'. (Since Japanese kana is phonetic, that attribute gets ruined during transliteration.)

'Lolita Complex'　(Kana: 'ロリータ・コンプレックス', Rômaji: 'rorîta/rori-ta kompurekkusu/konpurekkusu') gets abbreviated to 'lolicon'(Kana: 'ロリコン', Rômaji: 'rorikon'). Since Japanese doesn't differ between 'r'- and 'l'-based syllables, the 'r'-to/from-'l' interchangeability is natural. They do, however, differentiate between 'm'- and 'n'-based syllables, with the exception being kana's only single consonant, 'n' (Kana: 'ン' and 'ん' in katakana respectively hiragana), which either: A) Always takes the form of 'n'. (i.e: '先輩'　→　'せんぱい'　→　'senpai') B) Takes the form of 'm' whenever followed by a 'm'-, 'b'-, or 'p'-based syllable, which for the record, Famicon does not. (i.e: '先輩'　→　'せんぱい'　→　'sempai')

Whether B or A is used depends on which romanisation one uses. Such as ヘボン式ローマ字 ('Hebon-shiki Rômaji'/'Hepburn-style romanisation') which is focused on typing words as an American would pronounce them, 日本式ローマ字 ('Nihon-shiki Rômaji'/'Japanese-style Romanisation') which is focused on tranliterating the word as (almost) close to Japanese as possible, 訓令式ローマ字 ('Kunrei-shiki Rômaji'/Directive Style Romanisation') which is basically a revision of the former but even more similar to Japanese, etc. The only one one (as far as I know, besides outdated romanisations) that uses above B-scenario is the Modified Hepburn (which is the American National Standard System), however, Nihon-shiki and Kunrei-shiki are both standard according to International Organisation for Standardisation (with the former being the strict standard), and the latter is also the standard chosen by the Japanese government.

And since English wikipedia is very internationally inclined (Australia, Canada, UK, US, etc. have English as it's first language, after all. And many with English as their second or third language use it as well, myself included.), I personally think that the international standard should be used, especially since it's a non-American article. And if not that, then I think that atleast the modern and correct transliteration should be used. That is, no 'm' unless followed by one of the aforementioned syllables. I think it should be mentioned though that it is often (incorrectly, by todays standards) transliterated to 'famicom', however. In the case someone unsure of the nomer decides to google for more info -- in which case, Famicom would yield more results. (Kinda like with Beijing/Peking. Where one is an outdated transliteration, yet both are used. And they mention both in the article here on wikipedia.) 82.182.171.126 (talk) 13:53, 26 September 2009 (UTC)