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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 77.7.114.40 (talk) at 12:43, 17 October 2010 (Did he know of his disease that got the best of him?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

comments

Now I love etymology more than most folks, but this clever concatenation of factoids doesn't come up again in the entry, so I'm moving 'em:

In German, Mandelbrot means "almond bread", while Benoît is French for "Benedict" meaning "blessed".

--MichaelTinkler

Aslo in swedish SV:Mandelbrotmängden
I also have a question, is in not better to redirect Benoît Mandelbrot to Benoît B. Mandelbrot (the correct name) and not the way it is today? Is there a reason for not doing this?? // Solkoll 20:23, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
How is that the correct name? Gzornenplatz 20:26, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)
The correct name coz it's spelled correctly :-) Paul.N.Lee has got a page here, where he lists all names in the fractal world (also mine ;-) and I normaly use this list when nameing the persons I write about. Like a standards list. // Solkoll 21:10, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
"Benoît Mandelbrot" is also spelled correctly. The initial is not an essential part of the name - with Google I get 15,700 hits without, and only 4,970 with. And I can't find a single incidence where the middle name is spelled out - what the B. stands for is a mystery. Gzornenplatz 22:10, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)
Ok! google figures rules :-) About the "B"??? I have no idéa! intresting i say, // Solkoll 23:40, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Benoît Mandelbrot is French, and in France, in general, people do not use a middle initial. He's always referred to in France as Benoît Mandelbrot, not Benoît B. Mandelbrot. There might be a case for adding the B. if it were the common usage in English, but that's not even the case. David.Monniaux 06:27, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Google sucks ;-P
—DIV (128.250.80.15 (talk) 04:13, 22 September 2008 (UTC))[reply]

picture?

Shouldn't there be a picture of him insted a Mandelbrot Set in the opening? Just to comply with the Biography Standard.... (Looking for some picture of him). nihil 20:21, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Fatou/Mandelbrot

The Mandelbrot set article states that "The Mandelbrot set was first defined in 1905 by Pierre Fatou", yet this biography says "lthough Mandelbrot invented the word fractal, many of the objects featured in The Fractal Geometry of Nature had been previously described by other mathematicians (the Mandelbrot set being a notable exception)." Am I reading it wrong, or is there a disagreement here like I think?

Fatou investigated the mathematics behind the Mandelbrot set; Mandelbrot was the first to visualise it (and probably the first mathematician to appreciate how complex an object it really is). As it goes on to say further on in the Mandelbrot set article:
Fatou never saw the image of what we now call the Mandelbrot set as we do because the number of calculations required to generate this is far more than could be calculated by hand. Professor Benoît Mandelbrot was the first person to use a computer to plot the set.
Gandalf61 09:55, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
As far as I know, Fatou never studied the Mandelbrot set, or parameter spaces of this kind. However, Brooks and Matelski actually studied the Mandelbrot set before Mandelbrot, in a study of Kleinian Groups, and produced some pictures. (Well, more precisely they studied the set of hyperbolic components, which is conjectured to be equal to the interior of the Mandelbrot set.) Also, I don't really think it is correct to say that Mandelbrot 'built' on the work of Fatou and Julia --- my impression is that he was not actually very familiar with their theory, at least at the time. --LR 22:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Mandelbrot was very familiar with Julia and Fatou's work. He was a student of Julia at the École Polytechnique. In Mandelbrot's own words:
This theory (interation of rational maps of the complex plane) was dormant in 1979 having reached its high point long before, around 1918, with famous papers by G.Julia and P.Fatou ... I had read or scanned them at the age of twenty ... and they had been incredibly influential in my life.
from Fractals and the Rebirth of Iteration Theory, Benoit B. Mandelbrot, published in The Beauty of Fractals, H.-O.Peitgen & P.H. Richter, 1986. Gandalf61 08:40, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Some of Mandelbrot's claims in his first article on the Mandelbrot set are easily seen to be false using the results of Fatou and Julia. For example, I seem to recall that Mandelbrot believed that every parameter in the Mandelbrot set has a filled Julia set with nonempty interior. --LR 18:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The change in the formula

As the main article mentions in passing, the original formula presented by BBM was z -> z2 - c but it was later changed to z -> z2 + c. However, it doesn't say when or why this happened. Does anybody know? Khim1 13:24, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See response on Talk:Mandelbrot set page Gandalf61 11:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation

1. Since this guy still seems to be alive, what about asking himself how he wants his name to be pronounced? 2. Since it is a Yiddish/German word, what about pronouncing it like that or at least mention how it'd be pronounced in Yiddish/German? (the closest would probably be the pronouncation given by Merriam-Webster)

The first of those points is exactly what I was going to ask! (Actually, if any wikipedian would ask him that question, I suppose it would constitute original research, so the better thing to do would be to find a recording of how he pronounces it, or to find an article about him where this is mentioned.) --Keeves 20:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Or one could just ask someone who knows him.

I saw Benoît Mandelbrot today. The way he says his own name in French sounds like a French person would pronounce Mandelbraut, with a 't' at the end. I don't know IPA though. David.Monniaux 21:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tages on new section

The new section headed Controversy, added by an anon, contains a number of unsourced and potentially controversial/POV statements. I have tagged them with {{fact}} - unless someone can add references in the next few days, I will be tempted to significantly trim this section or remove it completely. Gandalf61 11:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

מתמטיקאי יהודי

I have changed the introduction to conform to the Hebrew language article.--Lance talk 14:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography and nobel price.

Could we get a list of his books and major articles. Richard Olsen once attempted to campaign for him to be awarded a nobel price in economics. http://www.olsen.ch/research/workingpapers/emperor050110.pdf. . Kendirangu 07:14, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

German on average?

I was at a public lecture by M. at the Australian National University twenty years ago. The host introduced him by saying that he had been born in Poland, and raised in France, and so was "on average German". M opened by saying that the host had stolen his joke.

If indeed M. has/does use this line, I think that it would be worth a mention in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.243.60.12 (talk) 23:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citizenship

When I was a student, around 1996, I attended a talk by Benoît Mandelbrot. At some point he deplored that some described him as American whereas he is French. Maybe he has dual citizenship, but certainly claiming he is "French-American" would need solid backing. David.Monniaux (talk) 19:07, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fact-checked. Benoît Mandelbrot has dual citizenship. (He deplored being described solely as American.) David.Monniaux (talk) 17:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jaromír Korčák

That sentence seems kind of out-of-place in the article in reference to someone who only has one relatively brief mention in the Fractals book (and that in significant part to correct an error)... AnonMoos (talk) 02:40, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, I was unable to locate this paper as cited in footnote 6, which apparently contains 1 or more errors. Jaromír Korčák does not appear to have written any articles in the ISI bulletin (searched in French) during any years, and the proper volume number for 1938 would be 5, or more likely 6, not 3 as cited. Page numbers do not match up either. If the error arises from another source, such as a biography, perhaps a "cited in" is necessary here, and/or the proper citation if it can be found. Or, as the OP suggested, drop the reference altogether. poetcetera (talk) 22:13, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Crichton's "Jurassic Park": yet another way of...

...distributing M's theories to the public. Oh yes. If anyone of you guys read the BOOK I think you will agree with me. Forget the movie, since it was more focused on action scenes, argument and yelling around than on Crichton's deep thoughts behind. I'm hesitating to input it in a haste, but JP was a fantastic way to let common people know about Mandelbrot. He's even mentioned directly by about the half of the book. -andy 77.7.12.139 (talk) 03:36, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Death rumours

There's a rumour going around Twitter right now that Mandelbrot died yesterday. No evidence yet found - David Gerard (talk) 00:00, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Closest we have to a source http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/ 78.86.165.225 (talk) 00:45, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A friend of Taleb's also reports getting the news from him in this blog post (Google Translate of original Portuguese): http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http://drunkeynesian.blogspot.com/2010/10/benoit-mandelbrot-1924-2010.html&act=url Those two are the only sources I've seen so far - no mainstream media seems to have picked up the story. Theharmonyguy (talk) 01:22, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, also http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=121588367899802&id=13012333374 78.86.165.225 (talk) 01:27, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I think that we should wait for more definitive confirmation from RS. I asked for page protection which was declined but the admin at RPP is going to watch this for any edit-warring. We should be careful per BLP. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 01:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keeping an eye on Twitter in case any useful links pop up in the circulating reports.Ray Radlein (talk) 02:54, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Im Sorry to confirm that BBM died yesterday -I am a member of the family French branch —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.37.165.80 (talk) 08:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Madlebrot's profile page has been updated, but hard to work out their source: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/bios/mandelbrot.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psd (talk • contribs) 09:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Edge is an online magazine. I think they may be a reliable source. But per BLP we may have to wait for another more mainstream source since the Edge hasn't declared its sources yet. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 09:41, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
why has article listed his death if we don't have proper sources yet? MikeyMoose (talk) 10:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I just reverted. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 10:41, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Full protected - use RFPP to request unprotection when valid sources are found, otherwise protection will expire in 3 days. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:51, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I had asked at RPP many hours ago. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 10:52, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Famous german IT-Newsmag: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Ordnung-kommt-nicht-von-selbst-zum-Tode-von-Benoit-Mandelbrot-1109031.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.104.32.162 (talk) 15:17, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is also now an article in the New York Times confirming his death. That's as reliable as a newspaper gets. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/us/17mandelbrot.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.159.8 (talk) 15:29, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jacques Mandelbrot, Benoît’s cousin, confirmed the news via the Computer Arts Society mailing list, and they have to wait for Times' article :( 95.134.15.154 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:08, 16 October 2010 (UTC).[reply]

death of Benoit Mandelbrot

Benoit Mandelbrot died at October 15 2010 - who can check and update this information? thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nitrofurano (talk • contribs) 10:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is Nathan Cohen. Some of you fractal folks know who I am. Suffice to say I am one of many colleagues of Benoit. I am aware that Nassim has made a brief allusion to the events at hand and you guys jumped all over him. Shame!

Dr. Mandelbrot has passed. I strongly urge you to respect the wishes of the family and his closer colleagues by not turning this all into a circus. It is not unusual for such notice to be withheld pending notification of family and others. I strongly urge you to NOT pepper Benoit's email box and other places. WAIT. There will be more information shortly. I will NOT respond to any queries so please don't jump on me either. OK?

The fact that the press hasn't gone public yet indicates the high esteem which Benoit was held to. Again, just WAIT.

Please try to refrain from twittering/social mediaing this ad nauseum--at least UNTIL you see it in the news. Again, just WAIT. I understand that many of you feel that this is akin to losing Einstein, and I mourn with you on the loss of the 'Source'.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.251.185 (talk) 11:41, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Death confirmed

{{editprotected}} - confirmed at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/us/17mandelbrot.html Exxolon (talk) 14:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, am I talking to myself here? Either edit the article or unprotect it so I can. Exxolon (talk) 14:49, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, suppport, unprotecting of the article or lowering to semi protection. There is a reliable citation for his death. Off2riorob (talk) 14:53, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What changes are you proposing? There seems to be consensus for the changes, but without knowing exactly what needs to be changed I'm reluctant to blindly edit the article (and I'm certainly not unprotecting it without discussing first with the protecting admin). I gather the "(born...)" bit in the lead needs to be changed to "(20 September 1924 – 14 October 2010)", and the infobox needs updated. What is required prose-wise? TFOWR 15:02, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The changes are simple - (born XXXX) should be changed to your text above and tenses should be changed (is to was etc) and a brief sentence in the bio or personal life section (Mandelbrot died in XXXX from YYYY on ZZZZ)(ref). However I've run out of time due to the slow response to my request and will now not be able to do this myself as I have to leave my computer for some time. Exxolon (talk) 15:05, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In that case I've "tlx-ed" the {{edit protected}} tag. When you guys have some prose worked out re-instate the tag and make your request explicit. TFOWR 15:09, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Hi, yes, the death and the citation.. I thought the article was protected because of the death claims? I will format the cite... Off2riorob (talk) 15:06, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No idea. All I'm going on are some demands that {{edit protected}} requests be handled within 15 minutes. Any chance you could sort out some prose, as well? TFOWR 15:09, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{{edit protected}}

For the time being, please tag this on the end of the lede.....

  • - Mandelbrot died in a hospice in Cambridge,Massachusetts on October 14, 2010, the cause of death was pancreatic cancer. He was eighty five years old.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/us/17mandelbrot.html|ttle=Benoit Mandelbrot, Mathematician, Dies at 85|publisher=[[The New York Times]]|date=October 16, 2010|accessdate=October 16, 2010}}</ref>

In the lede.... (born 20 November 1924 - died October 14, 2010)

also the infobox needs the date date adding showing the age, that is a template thing..and the words .. is ...changing to was.. and ..lives ..to .lived.. leaving the lede like this ...

Benoît B. Mandelbrot[1] (born 20 Nov 1924 - died Oct14, 2010) was a French and American mathematician, best known as the father of fractal geometry. He was Sterling Professor of Mathematical Sciences, Emeritus at Yale University; IBM Fellow Emeritus at the Thomas J. Watson Research Center; and Battelle Fellow at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory. Mandelbrot was born in Poland. His family moved to France when he was a child, and he was educated in France. He is a dual French and American citizen. He lived and worked in the United States. Mandelbrot died in a hospice in Cambridge,Massachusetts on October 14, 2010, the cause of death was pancreatic cancer. He was eighty five years old.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/us/17mandelbrot.html|ttle=Benoit Mandelbrot, Mathematician, Dies at 85|publisher=[[The New York Times]]|date=October 16, 2010|accessdate=October 16, 2010}}</ref>Off2riorob (talk) 15:19, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Would it be possible to have some kind of infobox/template at the top of the page with a link to the NY Times article (or some other source) and an explanation that the article is in the process of being updated for his death until the changes have been made? 136.206.127.85 (talk) 15:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, think it is added now. Off2riorob (talk) 15:30, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hehe, don't be tough on yerself, wikipedia neither expects or requires perfection. Off2riorob (talk) 15:36, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, only two small .. please add the cat 2010 deaths and please internally link the pancreatic cancer so users can go there and read about the cause of death. Thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 15:34, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Both seem uncontroversial and obvious, and hence have been  Done. TFOWR 15:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks TFOWR. Off2riorob (talk) 16:14, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Good job. Thank you. The quality of the sources is policy-compliant now. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 16:14, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unprotect article request

The only reason this article was protected was because there was no reliable source for his death. Now that a reliable source is established, there is no reason for the continued protection, in fact it is hindering the development of this article during a crucial day or two when it is getting a lot of attention and thus potential editors working on it. Green Cardamom (talk) 16:10, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. There is no reason for continued protection of the page, now that his death has been confirmed by a reliable source. Nsk92 (talk) 16:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So, has anyone gone to WP:RFPP and requested unprotection (WP:RFUP officially), which was what I suggested you do once the issue with sourcing the person's death was dealt with? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:54, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to ask there twice (with twinkle), it was rejected as there is already one about this article and then when I went there to add it manually I was presented with the template that says to ask the protecting admin first and then I went to your talkpage and saw you had been asked so I though is was in the pipeline and I left it alone. Off2riorob (talk) 16:57, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, the template instructions at RFPP say to ask the protecting admin first. I had requested unprotection at User talk:Bwilkins. Nsk92 (talk) 17:01, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree as well - now that his death has been confirmed by TED and in the general media the article will be generating a lot of traffic and this is the worst time to have it protected. Ardalby (talk) 17:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I was not supposed to have been around all day - so you could have been waiting forever. I have reduced the protection to semi to prevent possible negative BLP consequences due to the recent coverage. Expiry date is still the same as when it was protected. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 17:07, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Birth name?

For a Lithuanian Jew born in Poland in the 20's, Benoît does not appear to be a very likely name. If I had to guess, it is a stand-in for Borukh, which translates to Benoît. But I can't find a source. NYT is no help, and Google isn't either. Does anyone have a source? -- Y not? 00:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Name Correction

Mandelbrot often told people, including reporters, that he met or worked with that his middle initial was made up, and stood for nothing, which is dutifully reported in the NY Times obituary, probably based on the recent interview referred to in that obit, and now reported on this Wikipedia page via Note 1. HOWEVER, Benoit's listing in the latest 2010 directory of American Academy of Sciences shows that the "B." stood for "Baruch". So it's doubtful that his first name was also based on that.

See http://www.amacad.org/publications/BookofMembers/ChapterM.pdf (page 349)

I tried adding this to the references list of the article and modifying Note 1, but couldn't figure out where the actual references list is in the source for this entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.168.195.175 (talk) 02:38, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Baruch? That might make sense. Many people of Jewish origin "hid" their second (usually Jewish) name in order to avoid anti-Semitic reactions of people. -andy 77.7.114.40 (talk) 09:33, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By the way ...

How did that all come up? Well, seeing he was REALLY healthy still in February 2010 at the TED talk where he was acclaimed by the audience like a pop star, this comes a bit quick. Did M. already KNOW at that time he had pancreatic cancer? I'm no physician, but I can't believe that a pancreatic cancer could start from absolutely zero in March 2010 and then lead to sudden death in October. Nah, that just doesn't sound plausible. -andy 77.7.114.40 (talk) 12:43, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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