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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 58.187.167.178 (talk) at 02:49, 31 December 2015 (→‎"Republic of Ireland" or "Ireland"?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Good articleIreland has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 15, 2006Good article nomineeListed
October 13, 2008Good article reassessmentDelisted
October 30, 2008Good article reassessmentNot listed
April 7, 2010Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article

Template:IECOLL-talk


Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2015

Please change Ireland is part of the British Isles as this name is disputed, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute. Also your ref 6 is a link to UN page and not specific to ireland being officially part of the British Isles. Kindly present an official reference. News Insight (talk) 14:49, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done as stated in British Isles naming dispute "the British Isles" refers to a European archipelago consisting of Great Britain, Ireland and adjacent islands. AFAIK there is no other WP:Common name for this group of islands - if there is please provide it, with a reliable source. - Arjayay (talk) 15:12, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please find a link to an alternative name - IONA (Islands of the North Atlantic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islands_of_the_North_Atlantic "It has been used particularly in the context of the Northern Irish peace process during the negotiation of the Good Friday Agreement, as a neutral name for the proposed council.[4]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by News Insight (talk • contribs) 15:32, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 6 is not accurate. Change the line 'Ireland is part of the British Isles ' or show an unbiased (non british) source thats internationally recognised. The term is offensive to Irish people "Many political bodies, including the Irish government, avoid describing Ireland as being part of the British Isles; Eamon de Valera, for example, corrected John Gunther when the journalist used the term during a private meeting in the mid-1930s.[39]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by News Insight (talk • contribs) 16:23, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please change Ireland is part of the British Isles as this name is disputed please see, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute. Also The reference 6 after this sentence is a link to UN page and not accurate in showing any evidence to suggest Ireland being part of the British Isles. Kindly present an official reference. News Insight (talk) 14:49, 5 July 2015 (UTC) I can suggest an alternative name - IONA (Islands of the North Atlantic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islands_of_the_North_Atlantic "It has been used particularly in the context of the Northern Irish peace process during the negotiation of the Good Friday Agreement" Here is quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute. about the term 'British Isles' "The term is offensive to Irish people "Many political bodies, including the Irish government, avoid describing Ireland as being part of the British Isles; Eamon de Valera, for example, corrected John Gunther when the journalist used the term during a private meeting in the mid-1930s.[39]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by News Insight (talk • contribs) 16:29, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The origin of the term British Isles for the group of islands that contain Great Britain and Ireland stems from Ancient Greece and pre-dates the Kingdom of Great Britain by more than 2000 years. Claudius Ptolemy was a celebrated geographer who flourished in the second century AD; A greek by descent, he was a native of Alexandria in Egypt, and a learned man of his time. His most remarkable publication was perhaps his Geography, a work of seven volumes, which became the standard textbook on the subject until the 15th century. In the opening chapters of the second book of the Geography, we find reference to the British Isles: Chapter 1 is entitled Hibernia island of Britannia, and deals primarily with Ireland, Chapter 2 is entitled Albion island of Britannia, and deals with mainland Great Britain. AlwynJPie (talk) 06:01, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

IPA pronunciation

The pronunciation /ˈaɪərlənd/ is, what Americans say. The majority of people say including the Irish say /ˈaɪrlənd/.

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Redirecting

When people from the world search for "Ireland", they search for "that Catholic country", not "the island that British occupied for centuries". It is really bizzare that english wikipedia is redirecting me to an irrelevant article for the sake of political (in)correctness. That is my honest opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.228.55 (talk) 13:36, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can see "Ireland" is not a a redirect to anything but we have a simple explanation at the top for users who want to know about the two political parts of the Ireland rather than the island so they should not be confused. Strange statement about british occupation, if you read the article it has a lot more than the brief period it was part of the United Kingdom. MilborneOne (talk) 17:48, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
They only do that here, originally Taiwan redirected to the island of Taiwan, and the political entity was correctly called the Republic of China, but now the article "Taiwan" is purely the political state which isn't even officially called Taiwan while the island's article is called "Geography of Taiwan", so I would suggest a move where "Ireland" will redirect to the Republic of Ireland as opposed to the island and for this article to renamed "Geography of Ireland". I really hate it when Wikipedia uses 2 standards to measure the same things.
Sincerely, --86.81.201.94 (talk) 18:24, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps if you have a read of the page archives you will understand the consensus that has been reached and discussed loads of times in the past. Not sure the relevance of Taiwan/ROC as far as I know Taiwan and ROC are interchangable which is not always true of Ireland island and Ireland political division hence the current position. Also note that discussions about article naming should be raised at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 18:33, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Languages

What's the objection to including Polish? Gob Lofa (talk) 14:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

English and Irish are official languages in the Irish state. English is the official language of the United Kingdom, and Irish and Ulster Scots are recognised regional languages. Polish is a minority language with no official status, of which there are many. Rob984 (talk) 16:21, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's the most widely spoken, after English. Gob Lofa (talk) 16:38, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It still has no official status. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 16:42, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Neither does Ireland. Gob Lofa (talk) 16:44, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So why would you look to include non-natively spoken languages in a geographic article? The island of Ireland comprises two states, neither of which recognise Polish, Catalan or Wajarri as official. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 17:57, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Because it also discusses the people who live on the island, many of whom speak Polish. The polities have their own articles. Gob Lofa (talk) 18:01, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The infobox is for official or native languages, Polish is not one of them. MilborneOne (talk) 18:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What do you base that on? Gob Lofa (talk) 18:28, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's silly to add Polish as it has no official or traditional connection to the country. A lot of Polish workers moved to Ireland over the last decade or so, but there's also Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, etc. You could just as easily insist that Russian is also listed, as many of those people also speak it as their shared language. Polish could certainly be mentioned in the text, but has no place in the info box or the lede. --Dmol (talk) 20:08, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

None of those languages are spoken at the level of Ireland's second language. Gob Lofa (talk) 20:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Concur with MilborneOne, Bastun & Rob984 ----Snowded TALK 23:17, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Infobox is for official languages only. Snappy (talk) 12:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That's fair enough for states, but Ireland's not a state; it doesn't have any official languages. Gob Lofa (talk) 12:30, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Snappy, Polish is in the infobox at Languages of Ireland. Gob Lofa (talk) 13:17, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I know. Anyway, the clear consensus here is not to include Polish in the infobox or lede, but no restrictions against being mentioned in the text.
If you knew, why did you say "Infobox is for official languages only"? That gives a strong impression you didn't know. No-one's addressed my point that Ireland's not a state. Gob Lofa (talk) 19:18, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Look again. And step away from the horse. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 23:21, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As soon as I meet decent arguments, I'll let the horse get up under its own steam. You're right, I shouldn't have said "no-one", because you addressed the point. But the others haven't, and you haven't addressed my retort to yours. Gob Lofa (talk) 00:04, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We'll need a reliabe source that prooves Polish is an official language of the island. Until then, it shouldn't be included. GoodDay (talk) 00:42, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The island doesn't have official languages. Gob Lofa (talk) 00:49, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, ya got me there. But, do you have a reliable source that backs inclusion of Polish? GoodDay (talk) 00:52, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not quite sure what kind of source you mean, but if the editors at Languages of Ireland are happy to have it in their infobox, I can't see why we shouldn't. Do you mean a source for the amount of speakers? Gob Lofa (talk) 00:55, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A source that would justify having Polish included here, might help you. TBH though, you'll need a consensus aswell, to add the language here. From what I've read so far, there's an overwhelming majority saying to 'exclude' Polish. GoodDay (talk) 00:59, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still unclear as to what kind of source you mean. I don't understand why people want to include Polish on the LoI infobox but not this one. Gob Lofa (talk) 01:14, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a source, which does not show 'Polish' among the languages of the island. GoodDay (talk) 01:27, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some that show it's the second most common language in both Irish polities: [2], [3], [4] Gob Lofa (talk) 15:46, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you can convince the others to accept inclusion? then by all means, add Polish :) GoodDay (talk) 20:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Noone is disputing that it is not common, but it is neither official or traditional, which is why I will continue to oppose it. Can we close this push now as there's clearly not going to be any consensus for inclusion. --Dmol (talk) 22:04, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What I fail to understand is how the disparity between the infobox here and that on Languages of Ireland is acceptable to you. Can you explain that for me? Gob Lofa (talk) 10:35, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There's a group of articles such as Languages of Ireland, Languages of Germany, etc., that deal with the minority languages within each country - check them out. I think the distinction is fine, and since this thread by now is a getting to be a waste of time and bandwidth, discussion thereon should be ended forthwith. Hohenloh + 18:18, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm no wiser as to why an article about a geographical entity is portrayed as a political one, as if it had official languages. If this is based on a policy, I'd appreciate having a look at it, it may save me time in the future. Gob Lofa (talk) 18:32, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Republic of Ireland" or "Ireland"?

As mentioned above - the country of Ireland is not known by the name "Republic of Ireland", it is know as and referred to as simply "Ireland" in its own constitution and in all Governmental documentation.

Ironically, there is actually a wikipedia article on the subject called Names of the Irish state.

The only instance of when "The Republic of Ireland" is ever used over "Ireland" in a proper manner, is in a legal context when it is required to distinguish between the geographical island of Ireland and the Nation of Ireland. (where the two terms in this instance used are Republic of Ireland and the Island of Ireland, neither are referred to as "Ireland" in this one an only instance).

I am aware that a page already exists called "Ireland" that refers to the geographic island of Ireland, and my suggestion is to amend the name of the article currently named "Ireland" to the new name of "Island of Ireland" or perhaps "Ireland (Island)". Then this will facilitate the movement of the "The Republic of Ireland" page to it's official name of "Ireland".

I note nations such as Chile or Turkey for example, take precedence over any material aspect that is not a nation, and a simple not at the beginning of the article could clear any confusion:

This article is about the country. For the island, see Island of Ireland. For other uses, see Ireland (disambiguation)

The last paragraph of the wiki page I linked gives as clear cut an indication on the correct naming (or incorrect naming) of the Irish state in the current page arrangement.

It states (in the official conduct of international relations of the European Union); "The Inter Institutional Style Guide of The Office for Official Publications of the European Communities sets out how the names of the Member states of the European Union must always be written and abbreviated in EU publications. Concerning Ireland, it states that its official names are Éire and Ireland; its official name in English is Ireland; its country code is IE; and its former abbreviation was IRL. It also adds the following guidance: "NB: Do not use 'Republic of Ireland' nor 'Irish Republic'."[1]"

I trust this clears up the issue and the necessary amendments can be made in the near future.

Thank you for your time and all the work you do with Wikipedia.

Kind regards

LeinsterLad

  1. ^ Clause 7.1.1 of the Inter Institutional Style Guide [1].
See the top of this page
Discussions relating to the naming of Ireland articles must occur at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration by order of the Arbitration Committee.
The talk page at WT:IECOLL is where discussion is done. There have been numerous discussions on changing the name of this article there over I've lost count how many years, you can search the archive there. Basically the result has always been that the island takes precedence in this case. Dmcq (talk) 09:48, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Previously on Wikipedia if one were to type in Taiwan they also got redirected to the island, and the name of the political entity was listed as the Republic of China, this makes sense but the Taiwan article was moved to Geography of Taiwan in favour of WP:COMMONNAME, what is odd is that that same logic doesn't seem to apply here, I know most "fanatical editors" will point out that they don't care about WP:OTHERSTUFF but this certain lack of consistency which may be loved by "Wikipedians" can be confusing to WP:READERS and I'd argue that we should either follow the same suit as Taiwan -> Geography of Taiwan & Republic of China -> Taiwan with Ireland -> (WP:MERGE) Geography of Ireland & Republic of Ireland -> Ireland, these inconsistencies are really annoying and would almost point out to a political agenda in one case (thus going against WP:NPOV) and being more neutral here.

Ahoy, --58.187.167.178 (talk) 02:48, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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