Jump to content

Talk:Vani Hari

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Omnipum (talk | contribs) at 19:22, 6 April 2016 (→Hari's response). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Affiliate marketer

I'd prefer a label that's clearer, but it seems due and the source is used extensively. Given how prominent it is in the source, to not mention it in the lede seems problematic. --Ronz (talk) 22:38, 21 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand the reason it was deleted. That's what she does to make money. QuackGuru (talk) 22:40, 21 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Concur. It's well-cited and it's literally how she makes her living - David Gerard (talk) 01:13, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Omnipum: appears to be edit-warring to keep it out - David Gerard (talk) 01:24, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It belongs there, it is cited. Dbrodbeck (talk) 01:28, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Why does it belong there? Can you show me examples of how this title is used on other pages? Is typically how bloggers are described who have used affiliate marketing on their websites? I don't believe this is the case. Do you realize that almost all websites - including mainstream news websites - utilize affiliate marketing? Yet, they are not described as "affiliate marketers". I don't see how this is an accurate description of what she does.--Omnipum (talk) 01:41, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It is cited. Dbrodbeck (talk) 03:00, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just because something is in the news doesn't mean it is encyclopedic in any way. No one has answered my questions above. --Omnipum (talk) 03:05, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Specifically in Vani Hari's case, her affiliate marketing is an issue because she evangelises a lifestyle that promotes these products. And has been called out for it. Its one thing to utilise affliate marketing, its another to say 'You should eat/drink this! Its good for you!' without disclosing you are getting a kickback. So generally yes, its not an issue for most bloggers (although with recent high profile court cases regarding promoting products this may be changing) in Hari's it is a significant issue. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:11, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It belongs because, as the sources make perfectly clear, that is how she makes the money to support her rather agreeable lifestyle. She pimps products, and makes money when people buy them. That is not only an important fact biographically, it also bears directly on much of the criticism of her work. Guy (Help!) 09:43, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we link affiliate marketer somewhere in order to give a clear definition of what we're meaning the term to mean, then check whether she meets that or not. I would agree with Guy's description here, but it's not clear that this is how "affiliate marketer" is generally interpreted or not. Is she paid to advertise products, then maybe products sell? Or is she part of the selling process more directly herself, such as FudBabe-branded tasty yoga mats? Andy Dingley (talk) 11:23, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As per the second ref she is a fairly standard affiliate marketer, rather than a directly paid-for-promotion like some of the recent bloggers caught out. Its not a case of Organic company says 'Promote this and we will give you a chunk of cash'. She recommends brands and gets a cut/share from those brands for her referrals - which is how affiliate marketing generally works. As far as I know there isnt any allegation that states she directly does paid advertising on behalf of companies which actually puts her on the more ethical end of the blog-advertising range. Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:32, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe you understand how affiliate marketing works here. Almost every blog on the planet, including Scibabe, makes some revenue from affiliate marketing. That does not make them an "afflilate marketer" by trade - they are a "blogger" by trade. Let's get back to the point here that Hari is a blogger - and it is not appropriate to give her a title of "affiliate marketer". Can you show me examples of other wikipedia profiles that use "affiliate marketer" as a title for someone? I do not believe they exist.Omnipum (talk) 16:35, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is never a winning argument at Wikipedia. The point is that this is significant to Hari's income and to the public critique of her, and that both the fact and its significance are well-cited and relevant - David Gerard (talk) 16:43, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Where does it say this is "significant" to Hari's income? This is not what she "does", so it is not an appropriate title. Again... every other blogger on the planet does affiliate marketing and they are not called "affiliate marketers" by trade. This does not belong in this sentence, it is already discussed a couple sentences below where it says "Hari left her management consulting job in 2012 to devote her time to activism and blogging, as well as marketing dietary and other products." There is not reason to duplicate this and give her this title.--Omnipum (talk) 16:58, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Very few bloggers have an article about their affiliate marketing published by AdvertisingAge. --Ronz (talk) 17:04, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That is not true. Many articles have been written about bloggers and vloggers and how they make money, and they are not given the title of "affiliate marketer" although this is a primary vehicle that they use to earn a living from their blogs and videos. --Omnipum (talk) 18:22, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Says who? Please provide reliable sources. --Ronz (talk) 19:30, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have read through the talk page, and there is no qualification in her schooling, university career or her activism that make her "known for" affiliate marketing. She has no expertise in marketing other than what typical bloggers do. From looking at her site, it looks like she is mainly a writer and author - this is an inaccurate designation - also furthermore she sells no series or advice to deal with affiliate marketing - nor is there any evidence of significant income that makes this form of revenue part of her identity. I agree with Omnipum's comments above, that there are no other bloggers here on wikipedia that have this type of title. This clearly looks like a situation trying to paint Ms. Hari in a money grubbing light.Maruru~enwiki (talk) 18:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There is no consensus for your removal. Please don't edit war. Dbrodbeck (talk) 19:12, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There was no consensus to add it in the first place, so it stays out. Omnipum (talk) 19:36, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please consider me as one editor on the side of the consensus being to leave it in. I base that on the fact that sources explicitly describe her as such, and indicate that the marketing is an essential aspect of her approach to advocacy. Also, if I see any more edit warring, I am going to request page protection. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:57, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Concur with Tryptofish. Affiliate Marketing is how Hari makes her money, as covered by Advertising Age magazine link. Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz (talk) 20:47, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We have two WP:SPAs who are against this and a number of experienced editors who think it belongs as it is sourced. Dbrodbeck (talk) 21:26, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The source is unreliable and it's major point is that she's an affiliate marketer. Removal of the information seems to be a POV violation. --Ronz (talk) 22:09, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You meant "reliable", right? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Doh! Thanks! --Ronz (talk) 00:00, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Bloomberg Businessweek says her primary income is from selling her own eating guide. This isn't affiliate marketing. "The investigations drive readers to Hari’s Monthly Eating Guide, which she says is her primary source of revenue. For $17.99 a month, customers can download a full-color Food Babe Starter guide that teaches them about “organic living from the inside out.”
I suggest that instead of "affiliate marketer" it should say "entrepreneur". http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/food-babe-vani-hari-draws-criticism-over-her-science Omnipum (talk) 20:51, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So you suggest we ignore the main point of a reference we are using widely, and introduce a term not being used in the refernce you prefer? Sorry, the first a POV violation, the latter a OR vio as well. --Ronz (talk) 21:21, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hari response to criticisms

Can anyone explain why this quote from Hari keeps getting removed? We have already established that responses to criticisms are allowed in a BLP. “Under their criticisms, that would mean that no journalist working in this world without a scientific degree would be able to report on science. That is unacceptable." Source --Omnipum (talk) 17:02, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's nonsense, over-the-top, self-serving, has no encyclopedic value that I can see, and in context looks like an attempt to undercut the valid criticisms of her lack of expertise. --Ronz (talk) 17:11, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How is it nonsense and over the top? I disagree. It is her direct response to criticisms, whether you like it or not. --Omnipum (talk) 17:18, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You disagree and apparently feel this is just a matter of personal preference. Now please make a policy-based case for inclusion per WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE. --Ronz (talk) 17:50, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This quote from Hari is appropriate under WP:BALANCE and WP:WEIGHT and "Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons requires exercising special care in presenting negative viewpoints about living persons."Omnipum (talk) 18:17, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's clearly the reverse, but thanks for offering an explanation. --Ronz (talk) 19:31, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There have been so many recent reversions that it's difficult for those of us who didn't see it in real time to be sure which "response" this is. I think it might be where she said "Under their criticisms, that would mean that no journalist working in this world without a scientific degree would be able to report on science. That is unacceptable." If that's the case, then it came right after her quote about not being a nutritionist, and I don't think that it really adds that much to what the page already says, so I don't think that we need to add it back. I think the nutritionist quote covers it adequately. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:58, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No it doesn't. This quote specifically talks about journalism and writing about science. It is a completely different quote and should be added to counter criticisms that she isn't a scientist and shouldn't write about scientific issues. --Omnipum (talk) 22:02, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The way I see it, "I never claimed to be a nutritionist. I'm an investigator" is also clearly saying that she says she isn't a scientist but that she believes that should not prevent her from being able to publish investigations of nutrition science issues. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:02, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, she said "Nutritionist" and not "Scientist" - that is two entirely different things and I'm sure we can agree on that. The second quote is specific response to her writing about scientific subjects, and that is why it belongs. Omnipum (talk) 02:24, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We disagree. The point here boils down to "specialist" or "expert", as opposed to "investigator" or "journalist". Contrasting "nutritionist" and "scientist" in this particular context is a distinction without a difference. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:34, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You can take it with a grain of salt if you want, but that is her response to criticisms and so it belongs here. Omnipum (talk) 02:24, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Why? Who cares besides her? --Ronz (talk) 15:53, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
All that does is give false equivalence to her responses, no way to they belong here. This is a woman who thinks there shouldn't be nitrogen in the air she breathes.... Dbrodbeck (talk) 16:32, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. Being a WP:FRINGE subject especially, we don't do tit-for-tat. Hari says something of note and mainstream sources point it out as quackery, etc. We don't give Hari a venue here to push her point of view further by her responses to that. Kingofaces43 (talk) 16:46, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Vani Hari. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

checkY An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 05:41, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hari's response

Hari has stated "I'm not doing this to make money. This is my life. This is my passion. This is my calling. There is no way I would put myself on the line like I do because of money. This is all about what I've learned, and I have to tell everyone." This belongs on the article. QuackGuru (talk) 18:34, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Is it significant that she has said this vague and self-serving platitude? If it's credible that the claim is true (many believe that it's all about the money), then what sourcing is there for her lack of financial gain? Andy Dingley (talk) 18:46, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure I see why either, though I could be convinced I imagine. Dbrodbeck (talk) 18:54, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Adage article uses quotes from Hari to contrast what she says with what she does and the criticisms for both. However, it's rather subtle in the article, so taking quotes out of the specific context may be problematic. --Ronz (talk) 19:02, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, and that's why she gives her books away free as e-books, and ensures that she links direct to manufacturers rather than using affiliate links. Oh, wait... Guy (Help!) 19:09, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that her response to criticisms should be included. Omnipum (talk) 19:22, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vani_Hari&oldid=713954032"