Talk:United States

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2017

41.136.223.139 (talk) 18:22, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

You'll need to make a specific request. NewYorkActuary (talk) 18:45, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Infobox: "Last polity admitted"

The "last polity admitted" should be Hawaii. Northern Mariana Islands, as an "unincorporated territory," is not legally part of the U.S. --SchutteGod (not logged in) 70.181.168.53 (talk) 20:12, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

We had a very long and contentious debate as to whether or not the inhabited territories counted as part of the country; in its wisdom, consensus came to say "yes". --Golbez (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

We decided that the Northern Mariana Islands are in fact "incorporated territory." It might however be better to replace the field with "last state(s) admitted." TFD (talk) 00:01, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

We looked at the U.S. Constitution Article IV, Sec.3, Par. 2: The Congress shall have the power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and regulations respecting the Territory or other property belonging to the United States…so we concluded that the United States can posses territory.

We looked at scholarship that confirms the U.S. has always had territories apart from states but included in the United States from the time of the Articles of Confederation, whether they are held to be constitutionally incorporated or unincorporated, and that the Northern Marianas are now territory of the United States.

We looked at documents of the United States Government certifying to the United Nations that the Northern Marianas are under the jurisdiction of the United States and included in its geographical extent. Some editors support the Cuban Government contention that the U.S. cannot lawfully acquire territories, nor make their inhabitants its citizens, but the WP consensus did not adopt its view.

It is not better to adopt a Cuban Government contention which is not upheld in the United Nations, unsupported by international scholarship nor agreed to in the WP editor consensus. The geographical extent of the United States includes its territories, whether domestically classed as incorporated or unincorporated. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 09:10, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

In other words, consensus decided to look away from blatant synthesis and original research. But, consensus nonetheless. --Golbez (talk) 22:36, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

No scholarly sources could be found to support the Cuban Government's position that U.S. citizenship among its territories is unlawful. But as I remember, six reliable sources were found to support the contention that modern U.S. territories with native and naturalized U.S. citizens were included in the geographic extent of the United States. The editorial consensus did not find that the Cuban Government could arbitrarily devolve U.S. territory from the United States by Cuban proclamation alone.

At least one editor implied that the U.S. Government is incompetent to make brown-skinned people U.S. citizens, either by birth or by naturalization while referencing racist opinions from among the Supreme Court a century ago in his synthesis and original research. The WP editorial consensus rejected that unsourced POV, observing that the U.N. recognized that there is U.S. citizenship to be found among inhabitants in all the U.S. territories, as sourced. The U.S. government in the 21st century is including the brown-skinned U.S. citizens and native inhabitants of its territories with elective self-governance by their governors and legislatures under the equal protections of due process in local and U.S. courts. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 08:31, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

So again, in other words, consensus decided to look away from blatant synthesis and original research, not to mention your deplorable attempt at accusing fellow editors of racism. --Golbez (talk) 21:18, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Pointing out the Supreme Court has had some racist views published among its opinions in holdings that were written over one hundred years prior to the year 2017 is not the same as a "deplorable attempt at accusing fellow editors of racism". Using evidence of racist views over one hundred years old to characterize ongoing political relationships in the 21st century is not good methodology --- because, things have changed since territorial governors and a majority of each territorial legislatures were Presidentially appointed, and local territorial courts were administered by the U.S. Army or Navy. That is all; bad methodology is not racism.

The United States is the continental United States, the island state of Hawaii, five insular territories, Puerto Rico, Northern Mariana Islands, US Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and outlying minor possessions. There is no "blatant synthesis or original research" in referencing the U.S. State Department, Common Core Document to U.N. Committee on Human Rights, December 30, 2011, Item 22, 27, 80. It is just a reliable description of the geographical extent of the modern United States as sourced.

No one is racist who supposes that the Supreme Court at the turn of the 20th century would not allow islander inhabitants the right to vote for territorial governor. But now that they do, those WP editors who show that islanders vote for their governor in the 21st century are NOT calling anyone racist who happens to read constitutional scholars of century old Supreme Court cases. But WP editors must be alert to political developments as they unfold across each century --- just as a matter of good research methodology. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 06:06, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Undiscussed addition of image

@Elinor Rajka: Hello, Elinor. I see that you've begun an edit war over the inclusion of an image in this article. You haven't provided any justification for the addition of a world map to a section already heavily loaded with images from American history. But more to the point, you seem to be disregarding the note appearing at the top of this Talk page -- the one that calls attention to the Arbitration Committee's concern about maintaining proper standards of behavior and editorial process. This includes the Bold-Revert-Discuss cycle under which you discuss the matter here prior to re-inserting challenged material. Would you please engage in discussion on this issue and, while this discussion is taking place, would you please remove the challenged image from the article? I look forward to hearing your response. NewYorkActuary (talk) 13:36, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

No response after a week. Image has been removed. NewYorkActuary (talk) 08:08, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Right-alignment of figures in tables

Two tables in this article, "Population Centers" (Metro Area Population, one column) and "Languages" (Number of Speakers, three columns) do not properly align figures at the rightmost "ones" digit, whereas all other tables do so. As this is WP style, I've tried to adjust the entries -- to no avail. This is minor, I guess, but the current off-alignment does look unprofessional. Mason.Jones (talk) 17:18, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

How is the United States not listed as a police state?

It meets all the criteria for being listed as such. Multiple sources, multiple statistics, a general consensus. Even debate.com has 94% saying that the USA is a police state.

I'm an American by the way.