Talk:Pete Buttigieg

Languages

While not fluent, isn't Buttigieg proficient in ASL (American Sign Language)? RickKirkland (talk) 02:34, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Buttigieg spoke Norwegian with a reporter from the Norwegian public broadcaster NRK on Dec. 15th 2019. The reporter (and myself) were impressed with his ability, especially considering he claims to be self taught and hasn't spent any significant amount of time in Norway. I wouldn't say he was fluent, but definitely proficient. Video is here but may not be available outside Norway: https://www.nrk.no/video/16552272-85ba-4333-9576-1de7ae0b6ee3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.87.110.239 (talk) 18:42, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

I recall in his book, Shortest Way Home, "[Arabic] was harder - much harder than the French and Spanish I had studied in highschool, or even the Maltese (also a Semetic langugaae) that I had picked up from my father." (p. 45). Maybe this should be added (?). — Preceding unsigned comment added by FireSparkling (talk • contribs) 03:34, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

News article about the Buttigieg article

Just thought that editors would be interested in an article that was just published about this page in particular. Catiline52 (talk) 03:37, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

References

Gotta love the degree of enwiki policy knowledge in that article. BTW, I feel like we should hang on to an archive link, although it's unlikely we'll need it. Airbornemihir (talk) 05:17, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

The policy knowledge was definitely good, albeit not perfect. She states that COI editing is "strictly prohibited" on WP, when actually our policy merely "strongly discourages" it, and only outright prohibits undisclosed paid COI. But that's a minor quibble. Sdkb (talk) 08:31, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Catiline52, Slate Magazine in its detailed investigation says that some editors who edit this article have a conflict of interest to say the least. As there are wiki rules on WP:OUTING etc, we have to be cautious how we discuss this, nonetheless this news report has other details and whole matter might be needed to be brought to the attention of administrators at one of the noticeboards. If editors have a conflict of interest and they edit this article, editing bias and (lack of) neutrality are issues of concern for the page.Resnjari (talk) 05:06, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

There are definitely multiple admins editing this article who have a conflict of interest. I did some digging and an edit was suppressed on 23:21 12 November on false grounds it was identical to the suppressed copyright violation edit on 22:30 6 November. However, whereas the 12 November edit had 549 characters, the 6 November edit had 890 characters. Edit appears to have been about an increase in South Bend crime as a result of policies implemented by the South Bend Police who reported to Buttigieg. 116.84.110.175 (talk) 07:58, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

I stuck a bit about this under Personal life, seems pertinent to include *somewhere* in the article. Battleofalma (talk) 12:08, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

That content is WP:UNDUE, and unrelated to Buttigieg's personal life. - MrX 🖋 13:12, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, undue unless it gets more coverage, like say the Warsaw concentration camp-WP thing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:30, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

We may be getting there. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:27, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, the WaPo piece on it and Feinberg's work does shore this up a bit. Battleofalma (talk) 12:07, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Just a comment - Are politically-charged editors (either from the campaign or for intentions of attacking another candidate) invading Wikipedia? I've seen a few contentious articles be put up to AfD, usually being bombarded by those in support of the person in question. Weird stuff, I guess this is my 1st time seeing something fishy like this Letmejustcorrectthatforyou (talk) 10:56, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

See the article Conflict-of-interest editing on Wikipedia. People with WP-articles are often interested in what those articles say, which is unsurprising. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:26, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

The Wikipedia editor who was apparently outed by Ashley Feinberg, the writer of the Slate article, has edited the Pete Buttigieg Wikipedia article a total of one time since 13 July 2012. That makes the subtitle of the Slate article, "Tracking down the editor who tracks every move the South Bend mayor makes", absolutely false. Unless, of course, Ashley has a different data source covering the period July 2012 to the present that she failed to disclose. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 02:01, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, Feinberg is a genius at this kind of thing. The fact that Buttigieg didn't just own up and say it was him or a staffer is a bit ridiculous. It's a violation of Wikipedia policy, sure, but anyone who does NPP will confirm that nobody can be bothered to properly disclose a COI unless you spend a lot of time shouting at them (and that goes even in cases where they're prepared to disclose it informally). And it's not like it's been active recently. Blythwood (talk) 13:35, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

The most likely scenario seems to be that the person who did the edits was a volunteer staffer on Buttigieg's campaign. It's quite possible that they took the initiative to create the article, and do other, related edits, without the knowledge of Buttigieg or the campaign manager. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 17:15, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Since this is being talked about in the media, we need to be careful to get things right. AFAIK, no clear violation of Wikipedia policy has ever been shown, or even suggested. The original story which reported this, got this wrong, which IMO did it a great disservice. Sadly a lot of editors seem to also get it wrong. There is not, and has never been any mandatory requirement to disclose a COI. Nor has editing with a COI ever been forbidden, as the story suggested. You are very strongly encouraged to disclose a COI. You are also very strongly discouraged from directly editing an article when you have a COI. (Our policy has always be careful to use words like should etc rather than must.) But failing to do either, is not an explicit policy violation and an editor is not normally blocked simply for such a failing. They will be blocked if their COI editing starts to cause problems, as it often does because editors with a COI lack the necessary perspective for neutral editing. Therefore, any editing of a person on themselves is not a clear cut violation. The staffer thing is actually an interesting point. If it is a volunteer staffer, then things do not change. If it was a paid staffer, then since our ToU changed [1], any edits which could be considered paid would be in violation of the ToU, and en policy WP:PAID without disclosure. This is indeed something which is blockable even technically a single edit. Nil Einne (talk) 10:58, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Does anyone know why the edit by User:Battleofalma on 11:59, 21 December 2019 was suppressed? I checked the logs and no rationale's provided.. 172.58.230.130 (talk) 14:40, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

I don't see anything in the logs from that date. - MrX 🖋 14:48, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 January 2020

Change 2019 to 2020 in the last sentence of the paragraph titled 'Succession as Mayor'. It should read "Mueller took office on New Year's Day 2020 (not New Year's Day 2019). Maryhatchbailey (talk) 02:58, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

 Already done OhKayeSierra (talk) 04:41, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Since Buttigieg is an active political figure, I figure I should justify my change to the pronunciation of his name here on the talk page.

First, the Maltese pronunciation is interesting but irrelevant -- we're not discussing him in Maltese. I moved that down to the discussion of the origin of his name. Second, the English pronunciation BOOT-i-jij was an attempt to render the Maltese pronunciation, not the English pronunciation. It's contradicted by all sources of Pete Buttigieg himself. Those sources say it's either BOOT-a-judge or Buddha-judge, which isn't clear on whether the 'u' is the vowel of 'foot' or of 'food'.

I found a CNN interview where someone asked him, and he pronounced it with the 'u' of 'foot' -- that is, like Buddha-judge for some people, but not really like BOOT-a-judge. So that's /ˈbʊtədʒʌdʒ/. (Or /ˈbʊdədʒʌdʒ/, since for Americans who pronounce 'ladder' and 'latter' the same, there's no difference between the two -- but since Brits and others will presumably pronounce it with a 't', let's not mess with that, and stick with a /t/.)

... — kwami (talk) 06:31, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Coming back to this, it's hard to tell with the recording and his accent if he's saying /uː/ or /ʊ/. And probably most Americans have the same vowel in 'Buddha' as they do in 'boot', so the descriptions are reasonably consistent if the vowel is /uː/. It's probably best to take that as the pronunciation, so I changed the IPA to match what people kept putting in for the respelling. — kwami (talk) 10:51, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Youngest mayor of a city with a population of over 100,000

Maybe at the time he became mayor, but not historically. Michael Tubbs became mayor of Stockton, CA in 1990 at age 26 and Luke Ravenstahl became mayor of Pittsburgh, PA in 2006 at age 26, both of these cities have populations over 300,000

References

Combat Veteran?

Identifying a former member of the Armed Service is simply done by calling them a Veteran. When you add the word "combat" to the front of it, that is implying Infantry service and an actual combat engagement for which they received a C.A.R. (Combat Action Ribbon). It is considered deeply disingenuous, to the point of Stolen Valor, to pose as a "Combat" Veteran when all you did was drive a truck. Not trying diminish a fellow Veteran's service, but I think even Pete would agree, his description is really Reaching and may end up getting criticized. The main wiki description has him as a "combat veteran." Just saying, that is gonna get pushback. Im a former Infantry Marine who didnt receive a C.A.R. so I wouldnt dream of ever calling myself a "Combat Vet" ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.25.199 (talk) 15:24, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

I concur also as retired naval officer. Pete Buttigieg did not receive hostile fire pay or serve in a designated combat zone so this descriptor as a combat veteran is incorrect. However, from all accounts he did serve honorably and has a solid military record. (talk) 18:34, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Need separate page for Political positions of Pete Buttigieg

Same as Political positions of Bernie Sanders. I and many others want more detailed info on Buttigieg's political and economic positions. The political positions article is the topmost link in the Bernie Sanders sidebar navbox: {{Bernie Sanders series}}.

If you look at the pageviews timeline graph in the show/hide box at the top of this talk page, you will see that the Buttigieg article is now beginning to get a massive amount of hits daily. So people want more info. This need for more info can only be done adequately by creating more articles in the Buttigieg series of articles: {{Pete Buttigieg series}}

Politico has a detailed site on the political and economic positions of all the Democratic candidates:

• 2020 Candidates Views on the Issues: A Voter’s Guide - POLITICO. Click on any candidate, and then click on the dropdown menus to choose the topic. -- Timeshifter (talk) 07:59, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

I agree, a lot of Pete's policy isn't here. I just added a bit but there's a lot more to add. Also, Chasten might need his own page pretty soon. - Nablais (talk) 03:13, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Candidate as a Millennial

The is a major generational development, all other candidates are Gen X or Boomers.

We should also mention that Pete is the first Millennial to win delegates or even run for president as a major party candidate. Millennials: born between 1981 to 1996. Buttigieg: born 1982. NewsManJustin (talk) 03:51, 12 February 2020 (UTC)