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April 26

Category:Vardar Macedonia

Nominator's rationale: Rename to distinguish from the succeeding category Vardar Macedonia (1918–41), which is being renamed to Vardar Macedonia (1918–1941). The ambiguity was overlooked at a recent speedy nomination. – Fayenatic London 22:16, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Children of Holocaust survivors

Nominator's rationale: Categorizing individuals by the experiences of their parents is non-defining in the vast majority of cases. A random sample of 10 articles in this category revealed not one mention of this facet of their familial history in the introduction and nor should it. Per our guidelines, it is unlikely that an article would consider family history to be "appropriate to mention in the lead portion" of an article. As horrific as the Holocaust was, we need not categorize the descendants collectively. User:Namiba 21:26, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note that a discussion on this category occurred in 2014 and the result was no consensus
  • Support per nom. While it is undoubtedly a very significant characteristic for the children of Holocaust survivors themselves, it is less significant from an encyclopedic point of view, e.g. it is generally not the main reason why they are included in en.wp. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:22, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The article's categorization should never be defined by the poor quality of a lead. We have numerous leads that do not even mention genealogy. Dimadick (talk) 19:25, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think introductions should include genealogy?--User:Namiba 17:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Not only is something that happened to your parents usually not defining to you, but in the case of Holocaust survivors, something that did not happen to your parents is even less so. And also, the notion of Holocaust survivors is so vague that it is sometimes understood by some to include almost anyone having been anywhere near any Axis-occupied country. Place Clichy (talk) 16:52, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is extremely insensitive. People who survived torture and starvation certainly did have something happen to them. Approximately 90% of Jews who were detained in concentration camps perished, but the remaining 10% can not be said that it's something that "did not happen" to them. --Scharb (talk)
      • This category is for people whose parents survived the Holocaust (e.g. by fleeing Europe). In the sample of articles I looked at not one said the parents were tortured or starved (or held in a concentration camp). DexDor (talk) 20:32, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above comments. People should only be categorized for what they are notable for (e.g. being an actor, author or whatever) and for standard biographical things (which this isn't). DexDor (talk) 20:52, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete in line with my comments at the military brats category. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:47, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It is very important, culturally, speaking from personal experience, and there is research that shows that it was an extremely important factor in one's upbringing. In "Unwanted Legacies,"[1] professor Abraham Peck proposes that the descendants of Holocaust survivors form their own unique subculture within Judaism, which he names "Sherit Ha-Pletah," a biblical term meaning, "the part that remains." It is conjectured that Sherit have unique political views and personality traits. Other studies have suggested that it is even important, biologically: there are studies that show statistically-significant epigenetic, inherited trauma for descendants of those who survived camps.[2] As it is a matter of ongoing scholarly debate and scientific inquiry, it is of interest to researchers on the subject and the category serves a useful research purpose. Please keep this category up. --Scharb (talk)
"...proposes...conjectured...suggested..." - what's left amounts to WP:ILIKEIT. DexDor (talk) 20:58, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Existence of the group itself is a proof that the phenomenon exists and therefore, as such, it should be explained in an encyclopedia. Those people has a unique storry to tell.

Category:Cathedrals in Essex

Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT, only two articles and there is no other category with cathedrals by county. The proposal is "delete" rather than "merge" because the articles are already in the appropriate Anglican and Roman Catholic subcategories of the potential merge targets. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:00, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Boston University College of Communications alumni

Nominator's rationale: Agree the category name to the name of the institution: Boston University College of Communication. —C.Fred (talk) 19:58, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Cathedrals in Russia by city

Nominator's rationale: upmerge, redundant category layer with only two subcategories. Besides there is no other category with cathedrals by country and city. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:54, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's really an argument for the UK only, and it is not really even valid today. As the UK acknowledges freedom of worship for quite some time there are several cathedrals (of different faiths) in many British cities. Outside of the UK, a city can have several cathedrals even of the same faith. Many Russian Orthodox monasteries have a cathedral inside them as their head church, and as a result there can be many different Orthodox cathedrals in the same city. By current category count Moscow has 11 cathedrals that have a Wikipedia article, and Saint Petersburg has 13. Place Clichy (talk) 16:34, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Bosnian painters

Nominator's rationale: Appears to be a duplicate of Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina painters (and its subcategory duplicates Category:20th-century Bosnia and Herzegovina painters) Mike Peel (talk) 18:04, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Only just added, giving this one time for discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 18:04, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge -- Not enough separate content to have separate categories for Bosnia and Herzegovina respectively. Unless the 20th/21st century split is needed so that it can have a European parent, I am not sure that they can be kept as separate cats. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:31, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Mexican independent television stations

Nominator's rationale: This category coexisted with Category:Independent television stations in Mexico and is redundant to it. I moved its remaining member to that category. Raymie (t • c) 17:40, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Judges from Dedham, Massachusetts

Nominator's rationale: Over meticulous division of a category. I don't see another Judges from Foo category. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:56, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

LGBT and religion

Nominator's rationale: Rename without "topics", to be consistent with the parent Category:LGBT and religion, which is part of Category:LGBT and society. – Fayenatic London 13:25, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Roman Catholic cathedrals in China by province

Nominator's rationale: merge/delete per WP:SMALLCAT, having 9 categories for 8 articles is just slightly overcategorizing. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Personally I would not mind including Macau as well, but I deliberately skipped it for this nomination because I learned that Macau and Hong Kong have a special status at en.wp when it comes to categorizing articles about China. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • cmt This nomination is incomplete. It does not state what is to happen to the articles in the categories to be deleted. With these deletions, they will lack proper Chinese parentage. Hmains (talk) 19:24, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Railway stations in Hong Kong opened in 2020

Nominator's rationale: I propose that this category be upmerged to Category:Railway stations in China opened in 2020. This category extends back as far as Category:Railway stations in China opened in 2000. Hong Kong (and Macau) are "special administrative areas" of China and are part of China. The two stations will retain the category Category:2020 establishments in Hong Kong which they had before. We do not have categories for subnational divisions like "Railway stations opened in California in 2019" which are included in Category:Railway stations in the United States opened in 2019, (and the station should also be in "2019 establishments in California")
The category for "Railway stations by country by opening year" has only a few countries with significant numbers of new stations opening regularly (Canada, China, Russia and the United States), so should not be expanded by countries (or "subnational divisions") with only a few articles for inclusion. Likewise some categories by year or month e.g. disasters by year by country or events by month by country do not include all countries. The following categories for China include events from Hong Kong: Category:February 2018 events in China, Category:January 2020 events in China and Category:2018 disasters in China . Note that "establishments in Hong Kong by year" are included as a subcategory of "establishments in China by year" back to 1998 - apart from 2020.
copy of CFDS discussion
We do not have categories for subnational divisions like railway stations in California opened in 2019 or railway stations in Hong Kong opened in 2020. And the categories by country should be restricted to those countries with a number of new railway stations in all or most years e.g at present only China, Canada, Russia and the United States. Hugo999 (talk) 21:49, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – We create separate categories for Hong Kong to overcome complications related to its status as a semi-autonomous territory and history as a British overseas territory. This is a long-established convention for the ~16,000 Hong Kong-related articles on Wikipedia. The comparison to California is not apt because Hong Kong is not a Chinese province. Chinese laws do not apply in Hong Kong. The bulk of Hong Kong's railway stations opened before Hong Kong became part of China in 1997. Should those fall under the category for UK or China? Neither – Hong Kong categories should remain, as is the norm for all other category trees. Thank you. Citobun (talk) 00:33, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: While Hong Kong (and Macau) are not provinces but "special administrative areas" of China they are part of China; and apart from Category:2020 establishments in Hong Kong which you created, the earlier categories e.g. Category:2019 establishments in Hong Kong are subcategories of Category:2019 establishments in China, back to 1998. The categories for Railway stations in China will not extend further back than Category:Railway stations in China opened in 2000 as the wholesale building of new lines and stations (like the 19c "railway mania in Britain"?) seems to have started in the 2000s. Earlier categories for Chinese and Hong Kong railway stations will remain in Category:Railway stations opened in 1999 etc. Thank you. Hugo999 (talk) 05:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Citobun and BrownHairedGirl: pinging other contributors to speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:06, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. It would have been a different situation when there would have been subcategories for every single country, because in those cases we usually still distinguish Hong Kong as well. But in this case country subcategories are highly exceptional and then a separate Hong Kong subcategory is really not needed. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:06, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Hong Kong is 'highly exceptional'. Oculi (talk) 11:33, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: What (highly)"exceptional" circumstances for Hong Kong (and presumably Macau)? Hong Kong is regarded as part of China, not a separate country; as is shown by say "2018 in Hong Kong" being a subcategory of "2018 in China". The "Railway stations opened in China by year" categories (like some other categories given above by year or month) do not have subcategories by subnational subdivision and there are only subcategories by country for a few countries (here Canada, China, Russia and the United States). Hugo999 (talk) 11:23, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:American pornographic film actors of Singaporean descent

Nominator's rationale: It is a category that is unlikely to grow. SpinnerLaserz (talk) 02:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Needs some more discussion to see whether merging or deleting is the better option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:32, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Gender in computing

Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with just one subcategory and two articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:43, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 01:09, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:World cups

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SHAREDNAME
This category groups a wide variety of awards in a wide variety of sports based on whether "World Cup" is in their name. We already have World Cup that discusses the concept and which serves as a WP:SETINDEX for readers who need help getting to the right article they're looking for. I can't imagine a reader who would want an easy navigation route between World Cup of Poker, Rugby World Cup, UIAA Ice Climbing World Cup and Canoe Slalom World Cup though and none of those seemed defined by their name. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:43, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle: Purge? Would it also make sense to purge the current contents to match the now single main article: World cup competition? RevelationDirect (talk) 11:16, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Practically, it might be quicker for me to just create this new category from scratch but no objection to "rename and purge" to keep the edit history. RevelationDirect (talk) 13:11, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would also rather prefer "rename and purge" because if you start from scratch you may well miss a few that do belong. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@94.179.168.56: Happy to withdraw this nomination if the two main articles are going to be realigned. Both your proposal and Marcocapelle's would solve my concern about WP:SHAREDNAME of the current contents. RevelationDirect (talk) 18:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Good idea. I agree with merging of World cup competition with World Cup into resulting article with a title of World cups. 94.179.168.56 (talk) 23:17, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Pfizer Award recipients

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
The Pfizer Award is award annually to a book about the history of science. This category groups the authors of those works, most of whom are already very prominent academic historians who write on a variety of topics. The vast majority of the articles mention this award in passing (although a few mention it in the lede or not at all) and it seems to reflect their pre-existing prominence rather than be defining. The contents are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:43, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:43, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Wagner, Gottfried and Abraham J. Peck. Unwanted Legacies: Sharing the Burden of Post-Genocide Generations. Texas Tech University Press, 2014. Project MUSE muse.jhu.edu/book/35779.
  2. ^ Kahane-Nissenbaum, Melissa C., "EXPLORING INTERGENERATIONAL TRANSMISSION OF TRAUMA IN THIRD GENERATION HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS" (2011). Doctorate in Social Work (DSW) Dissertations. 16. http://repository.upenn.edu/edissertations_sp2/16
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