Talk:Racism

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Race Baiting

This concept was merged into Racism, but then not a single reference to it is found in its supposed new home. Why is this? Asgrrr (talk) 12:34, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Since this article is protected beyond my grade, I propose the following:

New item/chapter 2.8 in the article:

Race-Baiting is to utter or publish unfair statements about race, in the hope of provoking a negative response. Race-Baiting can consist of a racist attack on individuals or a population group, or portraying same as victims in a racial context without sufficient foundation. Race-Baiting can be compared to online trolling. Asgrrr (talk) 19:44, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

I am in agreement that race baiting is definitely racism. In fact I think it is one of the worst forms (of racism) at the moment. It very often means stepping on the toes of those who are indeed against racism. I think (I would imagine) a lot of race baiting is directed towards "white people". It should be tackled as a very serious issue these days. Too often we are seeing race being inserted into the equation where it does not actually belong. An example could be a cop using excessive force against a suspect. If the cop is white and the suspect is black this does not automatically imply racism... it is just a cop and a suspect who has been arrested (and possibly treated brutally).--92.238.227.68 (talk) 18:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you unsigned. Wikipedia is under increased scrutiny these days for alleged bias. It does not reflect well that in issue such as race-baiting should appear to be "ghosted" by wikipedia. I'm assuming good faith, but a critic might allege that this issue is being ghosted because certain editors find it uncomfortable. Asgrrr (talk) 11:30, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

What does "ghosted" mean in that context? Furthermore, I note that the article doesn't even mention race baiting, so I'm not sure what this is either? HiLo48 (talk) 23:29, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Racism and coronavirus

There have been report of Asian-looking people being attacked because they are accused of spreading coronavirus. A baby at a store was stabbed, for example. This has been described as racism, but does the current definition in this article accommodate it?

"Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another. It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity."

23.121.191.18 (talk) 09:45, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

The intro is disingenuous, the word "racism" is not some refined complex meaning word - at least anymore - it means prejudice involving race

The standard dictionary definition that pops up in a Google search and is in the intro is better than the part describing racism as a refined word about the significance of race. That dictionary definition that is in the current into defines racism as "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior".

This stuff about humans being distinguished by race can technically be identified as "racism" in the sense of an "ism" focused on race but the term that better describes that today is the term "racialism". This could be seen as splitting hairs, and it may be, but in modern political vocabulary "racism" is always associated with that that dictionary definition I described above explains, it is not about some nuanced analysis of the idea of race, the term as used now is about prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism involving race as described in the dictionary definition above. Earlier usage of the term in the manner used to what is now known as racialism could be briefly mentioned with a redirect to that article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.44.55 (talk) 19:18, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

We are not a dictionary. And we go by what reliable sources say about a topic. EvergreenFir (talk) 19:54, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 May 2020

In the last paragraph of the Ideology section, in the second sentence, change "address" to "addresses" (subject-verb number agreement [the Declaration addresses]). 108.223.8.32 (talk) 09:42, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

 Done Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 10:04, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Repair 2 dead links: ref name="KurzbanToobyCosmides2001ErasingRace"

Please repair the 2 dead links below (results from Internet Archive are provided). Thanks.

Dead Link #1

  |title=Can race be erased? Coalitional computation and social categorization
  |url=http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/papers/eraserace.pdf
+ |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080615041555/https://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/papers/eraserace.pdf |archive-date=2008-06-15 |url-status=dead

Dead Link #2

  |title=(untitled)
  |url=http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/erasingrace.htm
+ |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080627070117/https://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/erasingrace.htm |archive-date=2008-06-27 |url-status=dead

Chronull (talk) 03:18, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 04:10, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 June 2020

The term "race" doesn't come from arabic or hebrew of which the aforementioned words ra' or rosh are unreleated to any concept of race but from old italian "razza", evolving from latin "radix" meaning root. https://www.etymonline.com/word/race Augure (talk) 02:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Read the source again: "Etymologists say no connection with Latin radix 'root,'"...

If you have a specific wording change, please quote the current wording in the article, and then propose new wording that better reflects information in reliable sources. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:16, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Does racism always mean discrimination against people of different races?

I am sure people can be racist towards people of their own race?

The first bit of the article says: "It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity." I think people can be racist towards people of their own race or ethnicity. Should this not be modified?--92.238.227.68 (talk) 18:52, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand how that could be the case. Do you have an example, or better still, a source describing it happening? Without the latter, nothing can be added to our article. HiLo48 (talk) 00:57, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

There do exist examples of this, although it is not the norm. But, as said above, you need a reliable source. O3000 (talk) 01:02, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

There are many examples of this, especially in the American South and Southwest. In an effort to show themselves in solidarity with the dominant class, many Blacks and Native Americans spoke out in favor of White racism and, within their own communities, considered light skinned people superior to those with darker skins. There are also examples of, for example, Jews who are Nazis. It doesn't make sense, but when did human beings ever make sense. Rick Norwood (talk) 12:32, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Al-Andalus

This sentence is misleading:

"With the Umayyad Caliphate's conquest of Hispania, invading Muslim Berbers overthrew the previous Visigothic rulers and created Al-Andalus"

Arabs and Berbers fought in the army, and Andalus was ruled by Arabs (the Umayyad dynasty) for the first few centuries, and there is more of an argument to call it Arab conquest than Berber. I suggest removal of the word "berbers", and keep it as "Muslims". Another option is saying "Muslim Arabs and Berbers" but this is unnecessary and serves no point.

See: The Arab Conquest of Spain: 710 - 797, Roger Collins, Wiley-Blackwell.

It's ironic that the article about racism has become a playground for nationalists to inject weasel words in. Julia Domna Ba'al (talk) 08:29, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Can someone edit this sentence? I don't have the privileges to do it myself. Julia Domna Ba'al (talk) 04:36, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

-

Edit request. Change:

With the Umayyad Caliphate's conquest of Hispania, invading Muslim Berbers overthrew the previous Visigothic rulers and created Al-Andalus,

To:

"With the Umayyad Caliphate's conquest of Hispania, Muslims overthrew the previous Visigothic rulers and created Al-Andalus"

Julia Domna Ba'al (talk) 06:48, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

 Done: I went with "Muslim Arabs and Berbers". I think this helps counter the unfortunately common error on Wikipedia of treating Muslims as a monolithic group, so it makes sense to me to use roughly the same level of granularity as the Visigoths they replaced. Grayfell (talk) 07:22, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 June 2020

Racism is a relatively modern concept centred on European imperialism is a falsehood. Since antiquity racism has been expressed in various guises. The Romans, Egyptians, Greeks etc all had 'racist' policies and statutes and slavey was a key ingredient of their society. Before this the Devisonians and early hominids also displayed behaviours based on race. Cro magnon man deliberately targeted and ate the 'hobbit like' hominids of the south east asian coast around present day Thailand causing them to become extinct etc. My point being this wikipage seems to be incredibly narrow and perhaps at present with all that is going on it needs some futher research and wider reading. 92.25.41.249 (talk) 05:04, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done:: Conflating human races with early hominids is just one example of pseudoscience, but it's an extreme one. Not every division in human groups can or should be framed through the lens of "race". Tribalism is not racialism. See History of slavery and Slavery in antiquity for more on this. Grayfell (talk) 06:12, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Intra-wikipedia linking/category/portal cleanup needed

Wikipedia has several other articles about racism, some of which are linked directly in the page, some via the Discrimination series. However, there is no easy "portal" blurb at the bottom as there is for many other subjects, like the one on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

In particular, the article does not link to the overview of racism in different countries and cultures, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Racism_by_country