Talk:Chelyabinsk meteor

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Direction of the object

Could we sort out which direction the object was moving for the section "Unrelated Asteroid approach?" I pulled a statement from NASA saying that it was north to south while another source stated east to west. The article saying east to west is in Russian, so I'm unable to decipher it.Cheerioswithmilk (talk) 16:32, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

This would be going into original research, but I believe NASA is wrong. The path is more east to west. I have collected a playlist of footage on YouTube. It is also worth looking at the smoke trail videos, as they will show the direction of the sun. And yes, the sun does not rise from the east in Siberia in the winter. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 16:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

The exact direction can be inferred from this video from a webcam facing south on Revolution Square in central Chelyabinsk. The shadows of the street lamps are seen traveling almost exactly west to east on Lenin Prospect, which would indicate an east-west path for the meteor. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Since this is a bit disputed, I've removed the north south direction for now.Cheerioswithmilk (talk) 17:11, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Because both events are over now, I removed "estimated" and "will pass". The Guardian quotes NASA (north to south). Eventually a better source might be available. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:32, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I changed to north to south, because Chelyabinsk is north of Chebarkul, because of (Quinn, Ben and agencies (February 15, 2013). "Asteroid misses Earth by 17,000 miles after meteor strikes Russia". The Guardian (Guardian News and Media). http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/feb/15/asteroid-misses-earth-meteor-strike. Retrieved February 15, 2013.) and because of this picture ([1]). Scientific American, Meteor researcher Margaret Campbell-Brown [2]:

Energy of the explosion was about 300 kilotons of TNT equivalent

About 15 meters in size

Moving at about 18 kilometers per second, which is about 65,000 kilometers per hour

A mass of probably about 7,000 metric tons

Fireball begins at c. 50 km altitude

Main energy release at 15 to 20 kilometers altitude

--Chris.urs-o (talk) 13:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

NASA update (February 15, 2013 7pm PST) [3]:

Disintegrated in the skies over Chelyabinsk, Russia, at 7:20:26 p.m. PST, or 10:20:26 p.m. EST on Feb. 14 (3:20:26 UTC on Feb. 15)

Estimated size of the object, prior to entering Earth's atmosphere, 55 feet (17 meters)

Estimated mass 10,000 tons

Estimate for energy released during the event 500 kilotons

The event, from atmospheric entry to the meteor's airborne disintegration took 32.5 seconds

(This gives a density of c. 3.9, that is greater than c. 2.6 of a stony meteorite, so stony-iron meteorite (mesosiderite or pallasite), probably)

--Chris.urs-o (talk) 13:34, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Monte Morin (15 February 2013). "Russian 'meteor' was actually a tiny asteroid, NASA says". Los Angeles Times. Event occurs at 6:30 p.m. Retrieved 17 February 2013.

“Tiny asteroid”, 45 feet across (13.7 m), about 10,000 tons and traveled about 40,000 mph (64,400 km/h).

--Chris.urs-o (talk) 12:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Petri Krohn's conclusion above that the meteor followed a more east to west direction trajectory, instead of the north to south direction mentioned by other sources, is correct. As he points out the shadows of the street light poles move west to east on the roadway below in this south looking view looking, which implies a definite east to west motion component of the light source. Moreover, the shadows of the light pole tips travel almost exactly parallel to the east west running lanes on the road below (along a line from about170 degrees to about 80 degrees). Thus the line traced out by the shadow tips on the road surface and the tip of one of the light pole tops in the center of the picture define a plane in which the light source had to have been moving. Given the proportions in the video, such as car sizes, light poles are likely about 10 m tall. The shortest pole shadow lengths appear to be about the height of the pole. This entails that the aforementioned plane would have an about 45 degree inclination toward the south, with the pole tip shadow line on the pavement forming the intersection between that plane and the plane defined by the pavement. The initial pole shadows pointed toward an about 300 degree heading (light source in the east southeast area and traveled over about the next 5 second time interval via the 360 reps. 0 degree heading to an about 40 degree heading. The brightest flash was recorded when the shadows pointed toward an about 340 degree heading. If the meteor came in on a trajectory tangential to the earths surface, i.e. on a grazing trajectory, it would have to have been traveling pretty much exactly from east to west. However, if the meteor came in on a path inclined to the local Chelyabinsk horizon plane, then it must have come in from an E to SE direction, traveling toward W to NW. The steeper the more from a southerly direction.

The meteor "flashed" brightly when it was SSE of Chelyabinsk at an about 160 degree heading (to go with the above mentioned about 340 degree heading of the light pole shadow at the time of the "flash"). Because the meteor presumably "burst" about 20 to 30 km above ground, and given the above mentioned putative motion planes inclination, that "flash" had to have occurred above an area located about 20 to 30 km SSE of Chelyabinsk. This puts the "flash" location roughly SSE and halfway between Chelyabinsk and Yemanzhelinsk and pretty much exactly due east from Chebarkul and its adjacent lake, where some of the fragments supposedly impacted on earth. Also, over the roughly 5 Seconds long period of the "light show" the shadow of the pole tips traveled about 3 pole heights along the pavement from west to east, or about 30 m given the above assumptions. This makes for an about 6 m/s west to east motion for the pole tips shadow. Given the 10 m light pole height, the 45 degree inclination of the putative plane of motion of the meteor, and the roughly 20 to 30 km SSE location of the "flash" this results in an about 15 km/s east west component for the meteors velocity. This leaves very little for a south to north velocity component, considering the 15 to 18 km/s total velocity estimated by others for this meteor. Looks like a grazing trajectory with an approach from E to ESE toward W to WNW is a pretty good guess after all. A "south to north" trajectory is not likely a good guess, and a "north to south" trajectory is impossible given the evidence.Jbwischki (talk) 23:23, 16 February 2013 (UTC),

The best analysis of the path of the meteor is presented in these two pages:

• Reconstructing the Chelyabinsk meteor’s path, with Google Earth, YouTube and high-school math
• Chelyabinsk meteorite, 2013 February 15th on Google Maps

The direction of the trajectory is from east by south, not north to south as previously claimed. The explosion happened at a height of 27 km above the town of Korkino, about 40km south of central Chelyabinsk. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

What about the satellite images showing the smoke plume positioned towards the south east? They clearly show the meteor having traveled from the north west towards the south-east. In this satellite image overlay one can clearly see that the plume runs parallel with the Kazakhstan border. For further reference, the dark shadow you see on the edge of the plume is the shadow formed during the brightest flare up indicating the meteor entered from the right of the map and traveled in a south-easterly direction toward the left of the map. 1.178.161.116 (talk) 09:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Some more images here, here, here and here.

It is important to remember, that if the satellite that took the photo was not in absolute zenith position of the smoke trail, then the beginning (higher position) of the trail might be heavily shifted away from the camera viewpoint. The end of trail is shifting too, but in lower extent as it is much lower. So satellite images are pretty useless for estimating the actual direction unless satellite position is taken into account.194.126.101.134 (talk) 11:45, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I have to point out that the satellite images above, Stefan Geens video reconstruction and the Google Maps Reconstruction all confirm that the meteor was traveling in an easterly direction. Everyone else seem to claim that the meteor was traveling in a westerly direction coming in from the east, which is fine in theory... but which of the two claims are true? They both cannot be true. 1.178.161.116 (talk) 12:15, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

1.178.161.116 (talk) 09:27, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

See: The latest orbit determined by Dave Clark (and yes, the meteor came roughly from the East, not from the North as stated in the initial NASA reports) -- Kheider (talk) 10:02, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

It is for sure, that the meteor came from the east and landed towards west. As much as I understand the dispute has been if the meteor came from northwards (according to the NASA) or southwards (some other sources) the exact east (ENE or ESE) or from exact east (E). A smoke trail from two dimentional satellite image is not good inficator on this question, because one can be easily mislead by distortion caused by slope of the trail together with lateral position of the camera.194.126.101.134 (talk) 13:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I try to explain the problem with the illustration. The problem is, that some experts are estimated, that it was the 3.rd situation.194.126.101.134 (talk) 22:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I see what you mean and I am in total agreement with you. The evidence shows it could only have been an approach from a westerly direction, so all other theories must be discounted. As for the angle, the video and photogrammatic reconstructions seem to be the most accurate while the map shown in the article seems to be based on the satellite imagery. This must be reviewed and a more accurate map drawn up. 1.178.33.170 (talk) 02:06, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

The meteoroid may very well have been travelling North to South in space. The Earth goes around the Sun at 66 000 mph. The Earth is spinning on its axis at more than 1000 mph at the Equator and probably 650 mph or so at this latitude. Seen from the Moon, the track of the meteroid in space may well appear to be more North to South but as seen from the Earth or plotted against the Earth's surface, perhaps running in a completely different direction, biased more East to West. The impact speed relative to Earth is the sum of the meteors' own velocity in space and that of the Earth's around the Sun. Speed relative to the eventual impact point is also further modified by the added or subtracted speed of the Earth turning on its own axis. -- 79.70.229.101 (talk) 15:13, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

If some scientists claim that the meteoroid and the asteroid had too different orbits around the Sun to be related, then at first I'd like to see a correct 3D model of the meteoroid landing. If they even can't estimate correct landing trajectory, then orbit calculations are certainly wrong.194.126.101.133 (talk) 18:16, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Have you seen this reconstruction? Boardhead (talk) 19:28, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

The orbit view of 2012 DA 14 in that animation is incorrect. The travel of 2012 DA 14 was not due South to due North in space. The orbital inclination of 2012 DA 14 is only ten degrees or so, as shown in another video. 2012 DA 14 appears to be travelling South to North when viewed from the Earth only because the asteroid is moving along in its own orbit at about the same rate as the Earth is moving in its orbit around the Sun.

I'd also like to see the animation of the Russian meteor orbit extended back out into space and showing at least the last few days or weeks of travel. -- 79.70.229.101 (talk) 21:51, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

If they missed correct course by at least 15 degrees (very possibly 30 degrees!), then how badly mistaken they are about orbit predictions? 194.126.101.133 (talk) 22:07, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

All their orbit predictions are based on one lousy weather satellite image (quote: "Note that the simulation uses the published Meteosat 9 images, which captured the meteor’s contrails, to help locate the approximate path of the meteor.") and they did not take into account, that meteors trail is sloped and photo taken from sideways has heavily distorted track! Note, that Meteosat 9 is in geostationary orbit above Africa, and this caused serious distortion of the sloped contrail of the Chelyabinsk meteoroid! See this map for much more probable track! 194.126.101.133 (talk) 22:31, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Another question is, that if the scientist calculated correct orbit for the meteoroid, then they should be able to use latest night sky photo archive to locate the meteoroid, as it is much easier to find things when you know that it exists and you know its approximate location.194.126.101.133 (talk) 18:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

An object that small is incredibly faint. It is seen only by the sunlight that it reflects. More than 48 hours before impact it would be very hard to find. The main problem is that it came from a similar direction to where the Sun is in the sky, so would not have been in the night sky. It might, however, turn up in photos from a few years ago on a previous orbit. - 79.70.229.101 (talk) 19:00, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

See: NASA Meteor Watch

• The meteoroid would not have been visible until a mere 2 hours (135,000 km from Earth) before impact.
• The meteoroid would be in the daylit sky. -- Kheider (talk) 21:34, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Again: If they missed correct course by at least 15 degrees (very possibly 30 degrees!), then how badly mistaken they are about orbit predictions? 194.126.101.133 (talk) 22:07, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

A saw an article about a new set of telescopes NASA is building in Hawaii, I think. They said that if this new one had been online, it could have given a one-day warning. So with current telescopes looking for asteroids, even that warning was probably not feasible. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 00:47, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Preprint of article by Jorge I. Zuluaga and Ignacio Ferrin was published yesterday, so I did better map: File:Trajectory of Chelyabinsk meteoroid en.png --Tsuruya (talk) 19:02, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I deleted the from south to north etc. because these directions are useless in Celestial mechanics. Firstly, these are directions in the surface of the Earth. Secondly, there were hours between the two events. Therefore the Earth was in different orientation. Kondormari (talk) 09:57, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Strange, that at first these directions were useful enough to claim that those two cosmic bodies were not related. Now it is clear, that North to South direction was wrong, and all of the sudden - the direction happens to be useless!194.126.101.134 (talk) 17:54, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

In very simple terms, asteroid DA14 was going to be best seen in the Southern Hemisphere during closet approach. The Russian meteor impacted into the Northern Hemisphere. -- Kheider (talk) 18:00, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Lead Sentence

None of our sources says meteoroid. If that edit is repeated without sources and consensus I will report it as edit warring. μηδείς (talk) 16:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Before it encountered our atmosphere is was an asteroid not a meteoroid, it was 17 metres wide. Rubin & Grossman (2010) [4] wrote "However, object 2008 TC3, which dropped fragments of the anomalous ureilite Almahata Sitta in northern Sudan on October 7, 2008, was considered to be an asteroid (Jenniskens et al. 2009) despite the fact that its diameter was 4.1 ± 0.3 m." They propose a meteoroid is "... a 10-μm to 1-m-size natural solid object moving in interplanetary space." --Diamonddavej (talk) 16:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I fully understand the rationale, the object was not a meteor in space. I happen to think keeping meteor but changing the verb from entered to appeared is a better solution--the asteroid/meteoroid stuff is just a little too complex for the lead sentence itself. μηδείς (talk) 16:55, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Meteors are shooting stars below Mag -4, above Mag -4 it's officially termed a Fireball (a brighter than any planet). There are also unofficial terms, Bolide for fireballs between Mag -14 to -17 and Superbolides for fireballs above Mag -17. The Russia event was brighter than the Sun, > Mag -26, so it must be called a Fireball (or a Superbolide). --Diamonddavej (talk) 17:28, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I'd plump for Megabolide myself... Prioryman (talk) 20:56, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Arguments here are irrelevant. We go by reliable sources, not arguments and editorial opinions. I tried a compromise mentioning bolide, asteroid and meteor. That was reverted by an editor who apparently didn't even read the second sentence of the article.[5] I have warned him as already having violated 4RR if not 5RR. I suggest other editors here look at what I have done and support it, or we could just go back to meteor as the sources say. μηδείς (talk) 06:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Regarding my supposed edit warring, you appear to be unaware of the following (all from WP:Edit warring): "A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert." Also: "Reverting obvious vandalism" is "not counted as reverts for the purposes of 3RR" (one of my reverts). Also, "Considerable leeway is also given to editors reverting to maintain the quality of a featured article while it appears on the main page." Your accusation that I engaged in edit warring is nonsense.

Also, I did read (and edit) the second sentence. The current version is problematic; it suggests that the object did not become a fireball until it exploded, which is misleading. It became a fireball as soon as it attained the requisite level of luminosity. "Fireball" is the most accurate term for the object as it was under observation, and it would be appropriate to include it in the opening sentence. WolfmanSF (talk) 10:39, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Here is NASA's official explanation as to the differences between an asteroid, comet, meteoroid, meteor and meteorite... "In space, a large rocky body in orbit about the Sun is referred to as an asteroid or minor planet whereas much smaller particles in orbit about the Sun are referred to as meteoroids. Once a meteoroid enters the Earth's atmosphere and vaporizes, it becomes a meteor (i.e., shooting star). If a small asteroid or large meteoroid survives its fiery passage through the Earth's atmosphere and lands upon the Earth's surface, it is then called a meteorite. Cometary debris is the source of most small meteoroid particles. Many comets generate meteoroid streams when their icy cometary nuclei pass near the Sun and release the dust particles that were once embedded in the cometary ices. These meteoroid particles then follow in the wake of the parent comet. Collisions between asteroids in space create smaller asteroidal fragments and these fragments are the sources of most meteorites that have struck the Earth's surface." The original source for this quote can be found here. 1.178.161.116 (talk) 06:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

A Fireball is bright meteor. An air burst is the destruction of said meteor/asteroid. After the air burst, remains of the asteroid will enter dark flight. -- Kheider (talk) 11:02, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I support using asteroid instead of meteoroid here. It is simply too large to be considered a meteoroid (traditionally up to 10 meters). Svmich (talk) 13:53, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I too support the use of asteroid instead of meteor or meteoroid in the leading sentence; meteoroid is incorrect, per scientific nomenclature. -BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:11, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

What do the expert SOURCES call it? It matters not what our opinions are. WP:VERIFIABILITY, NOT TRUTH. On the other hand, if the scientists determine what to officially call it, they got it right. :-) HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:14, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

A meteoroid is defined as a small asteroid up to 1 meter in diameter. (Source: Rubin, Alan E.; Grossman, Jeffrey N. (2010). "Meteorite and meteoroid: New comprehensive definitions". Meteoritics & Planetary Science. 45 (1): 114–122. Bibcode:2010M&PS...45..114R. doi:10.1111/j.1945-5100.2009.01009.x. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help))

NASA's explanation fails to say what an asteroid breaking up within the atmosphere is called, only that the end product is a meteorite. Out in space, an object may be a meteoroid, asteroid, comet, or minor planet depending both on size and composition. There seems to be no single official upper limit for the size of a meteoroid; various places quote 1 cm, 10 cm or 1 metre. In the atmosphere the streak of light emitted from the former meteoroid or asteroid is called a meteor, fireball or bolide depending on brightness. The bits found on the ground are meteorites. -- 79.70.229.101 (talk) 17:37, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Lead: Meteor, asteroid vs. meteoroid

In addition of the low-grade edit warring, there are about 4 distinct threads in this large talk page where we are discussing the use of the words asteroid, meteor vs. meteoroid in the leading sentence:

“ On 15 February 2013 a XXXXX entered Earth's atmosphere over Russia [...] ”

Please, let's reach a rational consensus under a single thread. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:37, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• Asteroid - Because it became a meteor only upon atmospheric entry. It is not a meteoroid, as it is defined as a small asteroid up to 1 meter in diameter. (Source: Rubin, Alan E.; Grossman, Jeffrey N. (2010). "Meteorite and meteoroid: New comprehensive definitions". Meteoritics & Planetary Science. 45 (1): 114–122. Bibcode:2010M&PS...45..114R. doi:10.1111/j.1945-5100.2009.01009.x. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)) -BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:37, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• Asteroid - Chelyabinsk meteor came from Main Asteroid Belt... [6] [7] -- 79.70.229.101 (talk) 18:01, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
• Asteroid - My 500 kilotons go for asteroid. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
• Asteroid, per the current scientific definitions:
  • NASA defines a "meteoroid" as a small particle from a comet or asteroid.
  • The free dictionary: meteoroids
  • Science dictionary: meteoroid
  • Infographic: What’s the Difference Between a Comet, Asteroid and Meteor? (Universe Today. February 20, 2013)
  • "Meteorite and meteoroid: New comprehensive definitions" (2010)
  • "...asteroids are smaller than planets but larger than meteoroids". (Universe Today)

—184.158.96.147 (talk) 16:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

• Asteroid — the object that entered Earth's atmosphere from space is clearly an asteroid due to both its size—much larger than a meteoroid (by any of the accepted definitions)—AND due to the origin in the main asteroid belt. However, the second item need not be true to lead Wikipedia to refer to it by the more correct title, now that we know its size. (and meteor is incorrct as that is merely the observable optical phenomenon once the space rock (asteroid or meteoroid) enters the atmosphere. N2e (talk) 22:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Fine, but don't give us your argument. Give us a reliable source. μηδείς (talk) 22:19, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

The editor who made the comment prior to mine provided about a half dozen references on the matter. Just read them, and feel free to find others. But all the training I've had in this area, and the sources recently identified by numerous commenters on this Talk page, point to meteoroids beings small chunks, generally less than about 1 m in breadth, off of comets or asteroids. With the current consensus on the Chebylinsk event being that the item was 17 m prior to the air burst, it is quite simply, not a meteoroid. Cheers. N2e (talk) 01:48, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

It seems we have a consensus: asteroid!

The lede currently refers to the optical phenomenon as a meteor (correct) but then (incorrectly) states "it quickly became a brilliant fireball as it passed over the southern Ural region, exploding in an air burst over Chelyabinsk Oblast...". I think it would be fair to consider the fireball a part of the (optical) meteor phenonmenon; but it seems to me to be incorrect to infer, as that prose does, that the meteor exploded. It did not. The asteroid exploded. Or the asteroid fragment exploded. But meteors, being merely an optical phenomenon, don't explode; rather, the basic celestial object, that was manifesting itself in the optical meteor by entering Earth's atmosphere is what exploded. Thoughts? N2e (talk) 01:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposed change based on the consensus above (to be further edited by anyone)

On 15 February 2013, an asteroid entered the Earth's atmosphere over Russia at about 09:20 YEKT (03:20 UTC).(refs.) Travelling at about 18 km/sec (40,000 mph),(refs.) it quickly became a brilliant meteor as it passed over the southern Ural region, exploding in an air burst over Chelyabinsk Oblast at about 15 to 25 km (9.3 to 15.5 mi) above the ground.(refs.)

Please correct and edit further. BatteryIncluded (talk) 16:03, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

The asteroid (not meteoroid, and certainly not meteor or meteorite) entered the atmosphere and became a fireball (or bolide, i.e. a bright meteor - IAU designate this a "superbolide") and it then exploded creating the meteorites (not meteors, not meteroids) later found on the ground. -- 212.139.104.161 (talk) 11:44, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Here's a slight modification of the suggested text, taking ideas from both of the above suggestions:

On 15 February 2013, an asteroid entered the Earth's atmosphere over Russia at about 09:20 YEKT (03:20 UTC).(refs.) Travelling at about 18 km/sec (40,000 mph),(refs.) it quickly became a brilliant superbolide meteor as it passed over the southern Ural region, exploding in an air burst over Chelyabinsk Oblast at about 15 to 25 km (9.3 to 15.5 mi) above the ground,(refs) creating a number of small fragmentary meteorites subsequently found on the ground.

Please correct and further refine, or be bold and insert the text into the lede based on the consensus. N2e (talk) 13:14, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Further edit:

On 15 February 2013, an asteroid entered the Earth's atmosphere over Russia at about 09:20 YEKT (03:20 UTC).(ref) Travelling at about 18 km/sec (40,000 mph),(ref) it quickly became a brilliant superbolide meteor as it passed over the southern Ural region. It exploded in an air burst over Chelyabinsk Oblast at about 15 to 25 km (9.3 to 15.5 mi) above the ground,(ref) creating a number of small fragmentary meteorites and a powerful shock wave.(ref)

-BatteryIncluded (talk) 15:40, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

I think that is great,as well as supported by the sources and the science. N2e (talk) 00:36, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

"superbolide meteor"... "superbolide" is a "very bright meteor"; "meteor" is redundant. -- 212.139.104.161 (talk) 09:57, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

You are correct. The redundancy is because user μηδείς (aka: Medeis) is hell-bent on deleting the use of asteroid in the opening sentence. Whatever the refererences (experts) say, he is in denial that it was an asteroid, so he keeps inserting "meteor". I am tying to please him so I moved "meteor" after superbolid. Please feel free to address both Medeis and that redundancy. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk)

Article title

Is it time to change the article title to Chelyabinsk meteor? --PlanetEditor (talk) 05:15, 19 February 2013 (UTC) See below. --PlanetEditor (talk) 01:48, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

UPDATE: A better and more appropriate title is Chelyabinsk meteor event. --PlanetEditor (talk) 13:05, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• Strong support for Chelyabinsk meteor event.. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:27, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
• Strong support. The meteor bolide is depositive. kencf0618 (talk) 06:57, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 07:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• Hasn't it already been named the Chebarkul meteorite? Prioryman (talk) 08:19, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• The designation "Chebarkul meteorite" refers to the recovered fragments of the meteorite, not the event of the meteor impact and the damage that resulted to the city of Chelyabinsk. --Mike Agricola (talk) 15:57, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• Weak Support The name will do for the time being. It will likely be called the Chelyabinsk event or similar in due course amongst the scientific community, as this name will encompass the entire event from meteoroid, meteor, blast wave and meteorite recovery etc. --Diamonddavej (talk) 08:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• I will support the title Chelyabinsk meteor event. --PlanetEditor (talk) 10:27, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• Support: A quick Google News search on the phrase "2013 Russian meteor" returned four results with that exact phrase. In contrast, Google News reports 2610 results containing the exact phrase "Chelyabinsk meteor." Per WP:COMMONNAME, I support the proposed name Chelyabinsk meteor event. --Mike Agricola (talk) 15:57, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you just can't use news searches for current events like that. Unlike Wikipedia, current news reports have an implicit year - anything you search for prefixed by its year will get few to no hits. Prefixing or suffixing a year is only done when you're referencing past events (e.g. "The 2008 Examplian Election") or when you're naming something for archival use - like on Wikipedia. Kolbasz (talk) 03:50, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

• Support for the title Chelyabinsk meteor event. The main subjet of this article is the event, its timeline, the destruction and responses, not the physical asteroid or the Chebarkul meteorite. BatteryIncluded (talk) 16:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
• Comment I prefer "event" in there somewhere, because the article is mostly about the whole event, not just the meteor itself. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 17:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support Chelyabinsk... This thing was never a meteor; it was an asteroid in space, a bolide (or super, megabolide) when seen in the atmosphere. One part in ten billion of it was found as a one gram meteorite. The correct title would be Chelyabinsk asteroid impact or Chelyabinsk asteroid impact event. Do not expect there to be words for this in the everyday vocabulary. This kind of thing has only happened once in recorded history. At that time less than a handful of people actually saw it. It took almost 90 years for people to understand what it was. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:55, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Of course it was a meteor - that's basic astronomy. When it was in the atmosphere burning up, it's a meteor. The other stuff are sub-categories. HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• Support Chelyabinsk meteor event as the best of the choices presented. I disagree a bit with Petri's suggestions involving the word "impact" since impact generally denotes an event that leaves a crater due to impact with the ground. Since this one mostly disintegrated in mid-air I think impact would not be an appropriate word to have in the title. Sailsbystars (talk) 18:08, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support Move to Chelyabinsk meteor event per WP:COMMONNAME. VQuakr (talk) 20:25, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
• Comment Chebarkul already opens a precedent as for the name of the meteorite. The city of Chelyabinsk is forever linked to this event. Treat it the same way: the Tunguska event, Cando event, Vitim event, Eastern Mediterranean event. Krenakarore ^TK 20:55, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• No, it's hardly the only name tied to the event. As pointed out below, Chelyabinsk is not even the main location of the event. It occurred throughout a wide area, not restricted to the city even if the bolide impact zone was located in the city. - M0rphzone (talk) 00:27, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

• I pointed out "that town is forever linked to this event," never saying its name should be used for title. I simply suggested that the article title should be treated accordinly. Whatever name you guys choose, the matter here shouldn't be just the choosing of a name. This article is part of many others and definitely, is not a matter of preference. Besides, I have seen many articles change names overnight. Krenakarore ^TK 19:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

• Comment I'd suggest the article be named 2013 Chelyabinsk Meteor Event or 2013 Chelyabinsk Fireball Event or something similar, with a redirect from 2013 Russian meteor event redirecting here, unless there is another event over Russia this year. It wasn't a meteor strike, only a blast wave that was focused/combined with shock wave and sonic boom that caused the damage.Wzrd1 (talk) 20:59, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose 2013 Russian meteor event is a pretty good interim title, and Chelyabinsk meteor is not better as an interim title. Rationale: 1) this is not a local event that is entirely, or even mostly, limited to Chelyabinsk; 2) the scientists are already debating on what to call the thing, but "meteor" is not the most usual title for this sort of large chunk that is an air bursting bollide or superbollide. For example, the guy who is the author of the asteroid "bible", Dr. John S. Lewis, a professor of planetary science, had this to say about the Russian "meteor":

This was not a meteor. A meteor is an optical phenomenon, a flash of light seen in the sky when a piece of cosmic debris (usually dust- or sand grain-sized) enters Earth’s upper atmosphere, converts its huge kinetic energy into heat, and “burns up” (vaporizes), usually at an altitude of at least 100 km. The Chelyabinsk object was a fragment of asteroidal or cometary origin, probably several meters in diameter, properly called a “meteoroid” or, more loosely, a “small asteroid”. A brilliant fireball seen in the atmosphere is called a bolide. Some bolides, caused by entry of large pieces of hard rock, drop meteorites on the ground: a meteorite is a rock of cosmic origin that reaches the ground in macroscopic pieces (not dust or vapor). (link here)

So I oppose the proposed change for those two reasons. N2e (talk) 22:55, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

• When a meteoroid enters atmosphere, it is called meteor. And meteor events are generally named according to the place where they impact. --PlanetEditor (talk) 01:46, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose: Event wasn't localized just to Chelyabinsk (a better, more localized version instead of "Russian meteor/event" would be "Urals meteor/event"), and there's absolutely no consensus in the media or other places to call it the "Chelyabinsk meteor/event". Looking at Google hits, "Russian meteor" beats the other ones hands down - "Chelyabinsk meteor" gets 97,400 hits, "Chelyabinsk event" 7,240, but "Russian meteor" together with qualifiers such as "Chelyabinsk" and "2013" get tens of millions of hits (e.g. "russian meteor" "chelyabinsk" "2013" gets 27,700,000 hits. Kolbasz (talk) 03:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

• The meteor was seen from Kazakhstan too. By your logic the article should be titled 2013 Russian and Kazakh meteor. --PlanetEditor (talk) 05:15, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

• I'm opposed to the word "event" in the title. It's too woosy. A thousand people injured. That's an emergency, catastrophe, calamity. An EVENT is a Celine Dion concert, or Grampa's bed collapsing in the middle of the night and the ensuing ruckus so complex only Thurber can explain it. The term "event" doesn't carry the connotation of a terrible disaster, cataclysm, holocaust, tragedy, 'fell stroke', bane, or woe. It is a more friendly kind of thing, like a misadventure, upset, debacle, or fiasco. Friendly Person (talk) 15:00, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Comment I think event is fine, there were no deaths (I know of) some windows broke, a single roof collapsed, it is not an "emergency, catastrophe, calamity" nor do the words " terrible disaster, cataclysm, holocaust, tragedy, 'fell stroke', bane, or woe" describe the event. CombatWombat42 (talk) 15:10, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

• Support "Chelyabinsk meteor event" "Chelyabinsk" (assuming / conditional on that that is the name that caught on ) is more specific than "Russian", "meteor" is a common name for this, and event is a good noun to encompass it all (effects etc.) North8000 (talk) 15:15, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
• Strongly opposed to event, it's against MOS and simplicity. Chelyabinsk meteor is perfectly fine

We've got 82 news sources at google calling this the "Chelyabinsk meteor" and one source, "Chessbase", (hardly a notable reliable source for such things) calling it the Chelyabinsk meteor event. μηδείς (talk) 21:23, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose "event" in the title. This use of the word "event" is pointless. The Tunguska event was only called that because nobody was sure what it was. Calling this meteor a "meteor event" is like calling an "assassination" an "assassination event". Abductive (reasoning) 22:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

  Agree 100% on Tunguska. Besides, meteor in fact means meteoroid event. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:36, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

  That's right, there was speculation around 1960 that the T. Event was caused by a kilgram of antimatter. Nobody knew what it was, no meteorite material — Preceding unsigned comment added by Friendly person (talk • contribs) 03:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

• Strong support for "Chelyabinsk meteor" or even "Chelyabinsk meteorite". Kondormari (talk) 08:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support "Chelyabinsk meteor event"Joncolvin (talk) 08:45, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

500,000 km apart?

Reference #75 is used to say that Phil Plait said that this and 2012 DA14 were nearly 500,000 km apart.

1. I don't see the 500,000 km statement in the reference.
2. In 15 hours, the Earth travels about 1,600,000 km, the closest encounter of the two to Earth were about this distance apart. Of course, at some point in their orbits, maybe they could have been that far apart. But I don't know. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 01:07, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh well, there is this " At 8 kilometers per second that’s nearly half a million kilometers away from DA14", so that is where the 500,000 km comes from. But where does the 8km/sec come from? The orbital velocity of the Earth is about 30 km/sec. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 01:11, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

was 8 km/hour the speed of 2012 DA14 relative to the Earth? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 01:43, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

The relative velocity (V-relative) between Earth and DA14 was 7.8 km/sec. JPL Horizons shows that at 2013-Feb-15 03:20 UTC, DA14 was still more than 0.0025 AU (370,000 km; 230,000 mi) from Earth. -- Kheider (talk) 11:55, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

And since the Earth moved 1.6 million km between the two events, the two objects were a lot farther than 500,000 km apart. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:42, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Bleeding Love Dash Cam Footage

I have replaced the link to the "Bleeding Love" dash cam video because it shows the event from just before atmospheric entry, complete with timestamps, and furthermore it seems that the article would be woefully incomplete without some of that fabled and iconic Russian wide-angle dash cam footage. (WP:ELNEVER isn't an issue inasmuch as the song's copyright holder hasn't asserted his copyright in the U.S.; the video remains up on YouTube, although from what I gather it is unavailable in Germany.) kencf0618 (talk) 01:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

YouTube's automatic filters may disagree, but any background music that accidentally appears in asteroid impact footage falls under de minimis and is not a copyright infringement. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:06, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

User:Tbhotch brought up (ELNEVER, CS/CL and LINKVIO) (and even Freedom of Panorama); I've told him that his copyright concerns were moot. kencf0618 (talk) 10:35, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

First report from Federal Service in Russia 15/02/2013

Federal Service for Hydrometeorology and Environmental Monitoring of Russia

[Report]

Part of report translation from Russian.

About fall the meteorite pieces, which were made by air burst in region of Chelyabinsk Oblast

By information, received from observers on ground meteorological stations in Sverdlovsk and Chelyabinsk Oblasts, at 15 february 2013 since 7:00 till 8:00 (moscow time) was seeing luminous trail from meteorite pieces falling, which were generated as a result of air burst from the side of Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug (in the direction from nort-east to south-west) at the areas of population aggregates Talitsa (80 km to the east of Yekaterinburg), Sloboda Turinskaya (225 km to the nort-east of Yekaterinburg), Schelkun (75 km to the south), Asbest (80 km to the nort-east), Balandino Airport (Chelyabinsk), in region of Chelyabinsk city, and also in region of Koltsovo Airport (Yekaterinburg).

At 7:15 (moscow time) 15 february over aerodrome Chelyabinsk were observed multiple air bursts, following harsh chemical smell. By information of AMSC (Aviation Meteorological Station Civil) workers, air traffic controllers, crews of civil aviation aircrafts, during the night over the region of Chelyabinsk aerodrome were observed flights of luminous unidentified objects. By information of Head of AMC (Aviational Meteorological Center) Koltsovo (Yekaterinburg) at night also were obserevd flights of luminous objects.

15 february around from 7:30 till 8:00 (moscow time) over area of Sverdlovsk and Chelyabinsk Oblasts were observed a number of air bursts, probably from objects of space origin. At AMSC Balandino (Chelyabinsk) by a shock wave were broken windows and some partitions between rooms. There are no victims, one injured (cut by fragments of broken glass).

15 february at 8:15 (moscow time) Acting Head of Department of Ural AHEM (Administration for Hydrometeorology and Environmental Monitoring) gave instructions to do more frequent measurements at Points of Observation of atmospheric air Pollution (POP) in Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg, and also more frequent measurements at Points of Observation of Radioactive Pollution of atmospheric air (PORP) and at meteorological stations.

Meteor126 95.220.27.197 (talk) 04:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Unique photo of event

Morning photo session near Chelyabinsk

Unfortunately copyrighted. Meteor126 (Ru.Wiki) 95.220.1.144 (talk) 12:28, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Damage clarification needed

The second paragraph of the Damages and Injuries section provides (reliably sourced): "...."3,724 apartments, 671 educational institutions, 69 cultural facilities, 34 hospitals and clinics, 11 social facilities and five sport venues in the Chelyabinsk region..." that needed repairs as a result of the shock wave damage. Approximately 100,000 or so homeowners were affected according to Mikhail Yurevich...".

The list of damaged buildings was copied verbatim from the English news report. Some elaboration or clarification is needed: are the 3,724 apartments referring to apartment buildings, or to the separate apartment units within apartment buildings? If the latter, then the number of damaged apartment buildings would be significantly smaller. The other clarification required is for the vague 100K 'homeowners'; what type of buildings were these homes, condo units or stand-alone single-family homes, or a mix of both? I suspect the Russian or Chelyabinsk Region emergency authorities maintain a centralized listing of this data, and it would be good to access it for the latest figures as well. HarryZilber (talk) 13:26, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Orbital parameters

• A preliminary reconstruction of the orbit of the Chelyabinsk Meteoroid 195.169.141.54 (talk) 11:35, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
  • This paper suggests that this was an Apollo asteroid. Hektor (talk) 11:48, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Zuluaga2013 agrees with the data posted on The American Meteor Society: Large Daytime Fireball Hits Russia -- Kheider (talk) 12:00, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Preliminary orbital solutions for impacting asteroid

Parameter	aphelion (Q)	perihelion (q)	Semi-major axis (a)	eccentricity (e)	inclination (i)	Longitude ascending node (Ω)	Argument of perihelion (ω)
Units	AU				(°)
AMS	2.53	0.80	1.66	0.52	4.05°	326.43°	116.0°
Zuluaga2013	2.64	0.82	1.73	0.51	3.45°	326.70°	120.62°
iau3423	2.33	0.768	1.55	0.50	3.6°	326.41°	109.7°

Preliminary Orbit of the Chelyabinsk Meteoroid.mp4 (Jorge Zuluaga) -- Kheider (talk) 20:47, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Its apparent orbit along with others called Apollo asteroids, would be a very good addition to the article, while specifying that it a solid preliminary calculation. Maybe the table can be used at Chebarkul meteorite‎? Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 21:30, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Media Coverage

Under the media coverage section the first sentence is this: "The Russian government put out a brief statement within an hour of the event." The citation is for an article from The Atlantic called How a D.C. Hockey Fan Site Got the Russian Meteorite Story Before the AP. No where in this article does it mention the brief put out by the Russian government. This source, while reputable, it not appropriate for this quote. I propose editing this into two sentences.

• The first English-language news came from [Russian Machine Never Breaks], hours before the Associated Press. (citing The Atlantic article)
• The Russian government put out a brief statement within an hour of the event. (another source to this statement, which I could not find.)

I didn't want to edit the page directly because I think it warrants a discussion about if citing who broke the news in the US is really necessary. --Kaleidscope-Eyes (talk) 16:15, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Added a note about the erroneous reporting that the damage was due to sonic boom. This has become a widespread misconception. Did not add any particular reference because erroneous reporting was widespread across many media outlets.Joncolvin (talk) 19:28, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Likely. But in this Wikipedia article it is sourced (verifiable) that the damage was done by the air burst's shock wave. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:26, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Asteroid from the Pegasus constellation?

"The impacting asteroid came from the constellation Pegasus in the Northern hemisphere."

Please clarify this sentence, because Pegasus is 38 million light-years from Earth. Maybe they imply it came from that general direction?. Also, the same authors reported the asteroid belongs the Apollo asteroid belt, which makes much more sense. BatteryIncluded (talk) 13:11, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I do not want to dumb down the sentence too much. Constellations are positions in the sky and have no fixed distance from Earth. Anything coming from a constellation could easily be an Earth-orbiting satellite to a comet from the Oort cloud. -- Kheider (talk) 13:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Please avoid your edit war. "It came from" implies its origin. Clarifying the incoming direction and origin are most useful. Please slow down. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 14:07, 23 February 2013 (UTC) (PS: I did not delete your comment. It was an edit conflict where both of us were typing. My apologies.)

"The radiant of the impacting asteroid was the constellation Pegasus in the Northern hemisphere.

Yes, that is a very nice clear entry. Thank you. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 14:28, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

When in doubt, it is still best to stay as true to the source as possible. I was reluctant to link to radiant earlier because that term is generally used to describe meteor showers. But it can also apply to a random meteor. -- Kheider (talk) 14:43, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

When a literal copy/paste is unclear, then we type the meaning of the statement. Your first edit was "the asteroid came from the constellation Pegasus." which was not what the researchers meant. Any way, I think we both agree the current version is clear to the layman. Thank you. BatteryIncluded (talk) 17:12, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Correction, my original insertion of the material was 11:55, 22 February 2013, where I did use radiant. -- Kheider (talk) 17:22, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 2013 Russian meteor event → Chelyabinsk meteor

2013 Russian meteor event → Chelyabinsk meteor – Please see the discussion Talk:2013_Russian_meteor_event#Article_title above where there is strong support for this move, minus the extraneous "event". please note that 2013 Russian meteor event gets 48,600 hits at Google and zero hits at Google News, while "Chelyabinsk meteor" gets 209,000 hits at Google and 65 hits at Google News. μηδείς (talk) 19:19, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Once again, you can't use news searches like that. See my reply to Mike Agricola at Talk:2013_Russian_meteor_event#Article_title. Kolbasz (talk) 18:58, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

• Support There has already been strong support for this, minus the extra word "event" in the previous unclosed informal discussion above. The item is off ITN now, Google news prefers "Chelyabinsk meteor" 65 to 0 against "2013 Russian meteor event", and the change should not be disruptive at this point. μηδείς (talk) 19:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support -- Kheider (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support: At least it gets rid of the awful "event". Skinsmoke (talk) 20:47, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, "Chelyabinsk meteor event" gets a whole 1 hit at Google News and some 10,000 at google, compared to 200,00 for "Chelyabinsk meteor". μηδείς (talk) 21:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

• "Event" was fine when the news, some of which contradicted one another, started pouring in, but at this point "Chelyabinsk meteor" is a fairly established moniker. Support.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 25, 2013; 14:51 (UTC)
• Support. This use of the word "event" is pointless. The Tunguska event was only called that because nobody was sure what it was. Calling a meteor a "meteor event" is like calling an assassination an "assassination event" or an election an "election event". Abductive (reasoning) 21:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support Sure, that works. That's where the sourced point, so let's follow them.... Sailsbystars (talk) 22:03, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support Why hasnt this happened yet? Fig (talk) 13:01, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Event wasn't localized to Chelyabinsk, and news sources and online discussion vastly favor "Russian meteor" over "Chelyabinsk meteor". Kolbasz (talk) 18:59, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. (NOTE: I don't have time to look for it just now, but there was a previous proposal to change the name of this article, and I believe it was on this Talk page. It got several "support" comments and several "oppose" comments. Don't know where those comments, or that discussion went because this new section seems to have only one oppose comment prior to the one I am adding now.)

The prior section is easily found by scrolling up from this one or clicking on the link I gave at the top of this discussion pointing directly at it. It was a confused discussion since a large number of the "opposes" opposed only the adding of "event" to the end of the title when they actually otherwise supported the full move. μηδείς (talk) 20:04, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. I am opposing this name change as the event was much larger than merely Chelyabinsk, and in fact had a regional effect beyond Russia. For now, as an interim name, I think the 2013 Russian meteor event is still fine. I suspect we will have better science on the facts of the celestial object entry into Earth's atmosphere, as well as a better feel for what it comes to be known as in the popular press, in a few weeks or months. But I'm convinced that Chelyabinsk meteor is a move in the wrong direction. Cheers. N2e (talk) 23:34, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

There is no need for an interim name any longer, as the article is off the Main Page and page views are down to 1/18th their height. It has already been demonstrated that this stupid word "event" is not at all common. Abductive (reasoning) 12:12, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

In astronomy, the word "event" is routinely used for something that is going to happen or has already happened. Indeed, there's at least one "(astronomy) calendar of celestial events". -- 212.139.104.161 (talk) 12:18, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

And minutes after I made that comment, someone has removed every use of the word "event" from the article, and in some cases replaced it with a word that makes no sense in the context now used. You might think of an "event" as a "concert" or a "match" that you buy tickets for. In astonomy, an "event" is simply something that "happens". -- 212.139.104.161 (talk) 12:40, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Like an "eclipse event", or a "solar flare event", or an "occultation event"? Abductive (reasoning) 12:57, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Sonic Boom

There is widespread misreporting that the shock wave / damage was caused by a "sonic boom" (as opposed to fact that the damaging shock wave was due to the 500 KT air burst explosion). Sonic boom reported extensively across many media outlets. Attempted to add a note correcting erroneous reportage to this effect in "Media coverage" which was immediately reverted by John without comment or explanation. Since this is still a widespread and ongoing misconception (google search of "russian meteor "sonic boom"" returns 745,000 entries) this should be noted on the page. However not clear if this should go in "Atmospheric entry", "Damage" or "Media coverage". Comments please.Joncolvin (talk) 20:06, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

The term "sonic boom" is not used anywhere in the article. μηδείς (talk) 21:21, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Not anywhere in this article, but term used widely and erroneously across many media outlets. Eg New York Times, http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/16/world/europe/meteorite-fragments-are-said-to-rain-down-on-siberia.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0, Slate magazine, Daily Mail UK http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281454/Dramatic-video-captures-moment-sonic-boom-Russian-meteor-terrifies-schoolchildren-smashing-windows-sports-hall.html?ito=feeds-newsxml, Space.com etc etc etc. Reporting error sufficiently widespread and repetitive it should be noted.Joncolvin (talk) 07:06, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that the purpose of this encyclopedia is to list the events that were not. Stating that the shock wave was caused by the air burst of a meteor, takes care of everything else, including sonic booms, angry birds angry gods, or an American weapon test. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 13:07, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

If it was widely reported that the shock wave was caused by angry birds that would certainly be notable. The notability is the WIDESPREAD misreporting (hence entry in media coverage that John reverted), not the non-existent sonic boom. For example: http://news.discovery.com/space/asteroids-meteors-meteorites/falling-meteor-packed-a-sonic-punch-130215.htm amongst many other. I'm not sure why you think this isn't notable. Joncolvin (talk) 08:28, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

I don;t think it is notable because 1) It is not "widespread" in the media, and 2) it is not a scientific (or a popular) controversy. For example, some nespapers' headlines were "Russia hit by meteorites" or "Meteorites injure 1000 people". We don't quote the attention-grabbing title, but the verifiable facts in the text. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:16, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Asteroid Origin

A rough origin for the asteroid was announced today via arXiv:
_{(ordered from pure source down to news articles about it)}

1. http://arxiv.org/abs/1302.5377
   
2. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/511691/astronomers-calculate-orbit-of-chelyabinsk-meteorite/
   
3. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21579422
   
4. http://news.discovery.com/space/asteroids-meteors-meteorites/russian-meteor-analysis-orbit-apollo-asteroid-130226.htm

^{I'll let you guys hash out working this into the article. (novice/time constrained)} 00:05, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Most of that has been in the article since Feb 22nd. -- Kheider (talk) 00:32, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Would it make sense to add the arxiv.org data to the table someone put together, a couple of sections above this one in the Orbital parameters subsection on the Talk page? My orbital mechanics fu is insufficiently strong to know if that is a good idea or not. N2e (talk) 13:21, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

http://arxiv.org/abs/1302.5377 is Zuluaga (2013) -- Kheider (talk) 13:33, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Estimates published 28 Feb 13 based on nuclear test sensors

(From http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/27/world/europe/russia-meteor)

The duration of the wave—about 32 seconds—let scientists estimate the energy of the blast at between 450 and 500 kilotons, the size of about 30 early nuclear bombs...

The latest estimate is that the Chelyabinsk meteor was about 56 feet (17 meters) across, weighed more than 700,000 tons and was moving about 18 kilometers per second (40,000 mph) when it blew apart...

"the largest since Tunguska"

72.244.206.233 (talk) 10:34, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

(4/3) * pi * (8.5m)^3 = 2752 m^3 (2752 cubic metres).

700000 tonnes / 2572 m^3 = 272 tonnes/m^3 (272 tonnes per cubic metre).

No way! We already know NASA initially said 7700 tons then revised the estimate upwards to 10 000 tons.

2012DA14 is 50 metres across and 150 000 tonnes. An object 17 metres across is going to be a lot LESS than that.

The CNN figure is junk. -- 212.139.104.161 (talk) 11:10, 28 February 2013 (UTC)