Talk:Sega

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2016

The infobox says that the company was founded in 1940. But the company's own website says that it was founded on June 3, 1960.

http://sega-games.co.jp/company/index.htm

The website is in Japanese but can be easily translated with Google translator.

Also, the holding company known as Sega Holdings was founded on April 1, 2015.

http://sega.co.jp/about/company/

I realize that everybody can have their own personal opinion of Sega's founding year because Sega's history is somewhat complex. But Wikipedia, as a credible online resource, should objectively present the information as Sega sees it. The "1940" in the infobox should be replaced for "June 3, 1960" and to a lesser extent "April 1, 2015". I don't mind if there are multiple founding years listed in the infobox including 1940. But "June 3, 1960" and "April 1, 2015" should both have priority over "1940" to keep up with the company's official records and avoid subjectivity.

24.202.55.52 (talk) 18:41, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Not done: The infobox seems to make it perfectly clear that the 1940 date is for the original company, Service Games, which was renamed/reincorporated in 1960. I wouldn't be opposed to ADDING the 1960 date underneath it though, if other editors agree. Adding Sammy Holdings should not occur. This topic is about Sega, not the parent holding company. -- ferret (talk) 18:54, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Also agree. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk)

Adding back "June 3, 1960" (or at least "1960) would be a good consensus. Another editor has expressed concern on that very same talk page on August 14, 2016 about the accuracy of listing 1940 as the founding year so that just proves that I'm hardly the only person who thinks this way. Chances are, hundreds of readers must be thinking the same thing.

FYI, "April 1, 2015" is for Sega Holdings, not Sega Sammy Holdings. "Sega Holdings" and "Sega Sammy Holdings", while releated, are not the same. Sega Holdings is owned by Sega Sammy Holdings. But I agree with you guys that the article already discusses about 2015 and Sega Holdings and that this inclusion on the infobox is unnecessary. Simply adding back "1960" (or June 3, 1960) should be enough to make everyone happy.

Any issue adding the date back, Dissident93? I see you removed it about 20 days ago. Just the 1960 date for Sega, not any of the holding companies. -- ferret (talk) 19:20, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

None of this is actually accurate, which is understandable given Sega's convoluted corporate history. Standard Games was a distributor founded in 1940 by Irving Bromberg and his son Marty Bromley in Hawaii. It was sold in 1945. Bromberg and Bromley established Service Games in Hawaii that same year, which is a completely different company. Japan Service Games was established in 1952 (not 1951 as many sources state) as a partnership between two Service Games employees, Richard Stewart and Ray LeMaire. It was not a subsidiary of Service Games in Hawaii, but it did become a subsidiary of a different Service Games company established by Bromberg and Bromley as a Panamanian Corporation in 1953. This Service Games was dissolved and superseded by one of its subsidiaries, Club Specialty Overseas, in 1962. The Hawaiian Service Games was sold off in 1961. Service Games Japan was terminated in 1960 and replaced by two successor companies, Nihon Goraku Bussan and Nihon Kikai Seizo. Sega dates its founding correctly to the establishment of Nihon Goraku Bussan. Nihon Goraku Bussan absorbed Nihon Kikai Seizo in 1964 and merged with Rosen Enterprises to form Sega Enterprises, Ltd. in 1965. In 1969, Sega Enterprises, Ltd. became a subsidiary of Gulf & Western. In 1974 Sega Enterprises, Ltd. became a subsidiary of another G & W Company, Polly Bergen Company, which was renamed Sega Enterprises, Inc. This was done so G & W could take Sega public in the United States. In 1984, Sega Enterprises, Ltd. was sold to a group of backers led by David Rosen, Hayao Nakayama, and Isao Okawa and became a subsidiary of CSK Corporation. Sega Enterprises, Inc. was then dissolved in 1985. Sega Enterprises, Ltd. merged with Sammy Corporation in 2004. More information on most of these transactions can be found here and here Indrian (talk) 19:40, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Sega's history is indeed complex and its foundation year can be interpreted by everyone. That's why by adding "1960" back in the infobox, we eliminate all traces of subjectivity because this is the information that comes straight from the company's website. Leaving it solely at 1940 (without at least including 1960) is just adding to the subjectivity because saying that the company was founded in 1940 is more an opinion than a fact . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.202.55.52 (talk) 20:12, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

This whole thing is confusing and is a problem on multiple company articles. The problem relies on the infobox, as there is no dedicated field we could put all this info in, so everybody just stuffs it in the foundation field. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 07:56, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Sega subsidiary infobox formats

Sonic Team

Native name	[ソニックチーム] Error: {{Lang}}: unrecognized language code: jp (help)
Romanized name	Sonikku chīmu
Formerly	Sega AM8
Company type	Division
Industry	Video game industry
Founded	1988 (1988)
Headquarters	Ōta, Tokyo , Japan
Key people	Takashi Iizuka (producer)
Products	List of Sonic Team games
Parent	Sega Games Co., Ltd.
Website	sonicteam.com

Atlus Co., Ltd.

Native name	[株式会社アトラス] Error: {{Lang}}: unrecognized language code: jp (help)
Romanized name	Kabushikigaisha atorasu
Company type	Subsidiary
Industry	Video game industry
Founded	April 7, 1986 (1986-04-07) (as Atlus Co., Ltd.) September 5, 2013 (2013-09-05) (as Sega Dream Corporation)
Headquarters	Setagaya, Tokyo , Japan
Key people	Akira Nomoto (president)
Products	Megami Tensei series Power Instinct series Persona series Trauma Center series Etrian Odyssey series
Owner	Sega Sammy Holdings
Number of employees	121 (2014)
Parent	Sega
Subsidiaries	Atlus USA
Website	atlus.co.jp

Hi there everyone, I've created this topic space to discuss the infobox company format for Sega subsidiaries like Sonic Team, Sega AM2, Atlus etc. Lately, I've been getting edit conflicts with the design of these infoboxes with regards to formatting. Now, I like to use a symmetrical infobox for all the subsidiaries of a company in order to be more analytically concise and make the transitions from one subsidiary to another as symmetrical as possible. In laymans terms, what should be the default infobox format for Sega subsidiaries for that further edit conflict don't occur? Iftekharahmed96 (talk) 12:09, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

In what manner do you mean symmetrical? There's only so many fields in the infobox and they have clearly defined purposes. -- ferret (talk) 16:25, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

The infobox here should only follow what the documentation states, so I'm not sure what all this debate is about. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:14, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

He got annoyed that I changed the products field on Sonic Team when I was rewriting the article. He wanted every article to list the games/series that he chooses instead. So I switched it link to the list article instead. He didn't like that either because it didn't match other Sega articles. I disagreed with him and discussed this with him at length on his talk page that not every infobox has to be identical. --The1337gamer (talk) 18:22, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Linking to the games section is perfectly acceptable, I've done it many times, especially where the product list is extensive. -- ferret (talk) 18:37, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

The1337gamer, please stop throwing labels, I was not annoyed. Look, let me give you an example of what my issue is. I've pasted the infoboxes on this chat to provide more content. Which format is preferable? the franchise list used for Sonic Team or the franchise list used for Atlus? Because I'm pretty sure there's a guideline to how an infobox is laid out. This inconsistency is also unfair on me if I follow the rules of editing only to have an edit clashed out. Iftekharahmed96 (talk) 19:05, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

There's nothing inherently wrong with either. However Atlus has made far more than 5 series of games. It would be more logical to link to List of Atlus games instead when we have that option available. --The1337gamer (talk) 19:10, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Surely, there is an official ruling on Wikipedia as to how franchises are laid out? That would prevent editing future editing queries like this? (This is especially helpful with newer Wikipedia editors). Iftekharahmed96 (talk) 11:31, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

I don't think there is. Infobox company is used for all companies, not just game companies, so it doesn't make sense to limitations on something so broad. The products parameter isn't limited to just video game franchises, any product can be entered there. If we have list of a developer's games, then it is easier to just link that. It saves arguing about which games or franchise should be placed there. --The1337gamer (talk) 18:07, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Agree with the1337gamer. -- ferret (talk) 18:11, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, perhaps this should be documented in WP:VG/GL somewhere. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 22:10, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 December 2016

Can someone replace the category "Companies established in 1940" for "Companies established in 1960" to harmonize it with what's on the infobox. Thank you. 24.202.55.52 (talk) 23:04, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Done -- Dane ^talk 04:32, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Iftekharahmed96

Sega Games for the name of corporate Sega is incorrect. It is not including the arcade division among other things described in the article.--91.113.40.147 (talk) 14:36, 15 January 2017 (UTC)