Talk:Yom Kippur War

Please include East German military aid

The following text should be added in section "4.3.4. Other countries":

"East Germany supplied Syria with 75,000 grenades, 30,000 mines, 62 tanks and 12 fighter jets."

That information is taken from the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany%E2%80%93Israel_relations The reference given is this:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:65:E878:3255:F41B:CDE:EB4E:47BF (talk) 13:11, 21 January 2018 (UTC) 

 Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:08, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

References

Wrong figure legend

Instead of "Quneitra village, showing two minarets and an elevated car", please give "Quneitra village, showing the Greek-orthodox church and an elevated car".

Please refer to the Quneitra article: the church is still standing. 213.71.6.130 (talk) 14:14, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Other countries

To picture "Plaque commemorating...":It was 12 MiG-21 of the NAP's 8th Fighter Wing, not 8 MiG. See also Geheimoperation Aleppo in german WP. Please correct this, i can't. --Billyhill (talk) 09:33, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Article check - June 2018

1) The last sentence in the 1st paragraph of the lede is deceptive - namely "Neither Egypt nor Syria specifically planned to destroy Israel, although the Israeli leaders could not be sure of that." The Benny Morris quote was cherry-picked since the bit "though during the opening hours of the conflict, its leaders could not be sure ... etc", were excised. This deceptive type of editing left the impression that the Israeli leadership was unaware of the Egyptian-Syrian intentions throughout the war. Since it applied only fleetingly I am removing it as UNDUE in a lede. Instead I replaced it with an expert's analysis of Sadat's objectives. Erictheenquirer (talk) 14:55, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

2) There is a factual conflict in 'Background'. The second paragraph is a mix of "voted" and "never formalised" and of "public"/"not public" particularly illustrated by the Quote in the Avi Shlaim source - "The Americans, who were briefed of the Cabinet's decision by Eban, were not asked to convey it to Cairo and Damascus as official peace proposals, nor were they given indications that Israel expected a reply. At the meeting of 19 June the Israeli government developed policy guidelines; it did not discuss a peace initiative, nor did it ever formalise it as such."). If sources are in conflict on this topic this should be made clear. In fact the Herzog "according to" plus subsequent text looks like a C&P from Gabriel G. Tabarani's book "Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: from Balfour Promise to Bush Declaration" page 136. Did Herzog/Tabarani get it right or were Shlaim and Ben-Ami in error? What is sure is that no government decision was made known to Arab countries and any policy decision was therefore by no means "public". I will amend the text accordingly. Erictheenquirer (talk) 07:41, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Minor edit suggestion

I'm nervous about making edits to the page because I don't fully understand the big scary warnings. So I'll post it here as a suggestion: In the "Other countries" section, I see that there are two entries for "North Korea". I think they could be advantageously combined --- the second one has some different (I think) references to the first, but it doesn't otherwise add much. STeamTraen (talk) 22:06, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

It is off putting isn't it. I suppose that it is meant to be. Good spot there. Have a look at my two edits and see if you think that they have done the job. The second one had two references to the NYT which only dealt with the Korean pilots peripherally; the first reference is better, IMO. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:36, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Recent weakly-justified revert

יניב הורון (talk · contribs)please justify your POV-based deletion in your Revision as of 15:35, 15 June 2018. You appear to want to remove the fact that Egypt and Israel attacked occupying IDF forces in the alleged interest of brevity. Erictheenquirer (talk) 15:46, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

The fighting took place in Sinai and Golan. That's a fact. There's no need for your POV addition in lead to clarify it was "against Israeli forces."--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 16:19, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Just when being succinct loses necessary information is always a nice judgement. In this case it seems unnecessary to remind the reader that Israel was one of the combatants. That said and assuming good faith it was no doubt inserted in attempt to aid the reader. Pointing out that the main locations of the fighting were occupied territory seems worth a couple of words in the lead to me, although the copy editor in me doesn't like the suggested phraseology; it seems a little clumsy. (I have probably now offended both editors about equally; does that count as NPOV?) Gog the Mild (talk) 16:51, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

I generally agree with your sentiment above, and my recent additions have made it even more clumsy, I'm afraid. My sense is that this level of detail doesn't belong in the lede, at all. The subsequent paragraphs conveys the information needed, I think, when it states "The war began when the Arab coalition launched a joint surprise attack on Israeli positions in the Israeli-occupied territories," . Attack Ramon (talk) 18:15, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

The lead is not for such details, specially the first paragraph. I'm in favour of just saying something like "The war took place mostly in Sinai and the Golan, and for a short time also in northern Israel and Egyptian territory west of Sinai." We are not supposed to overwhelm the reader with details in the introduction.--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 20:37, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

The recent edit does make the lead "more accurate", but there seems to be agreement that it is also too much detail. I think that יניב הורון is on the right lines. I am not sure if they are proposing to remove the Syrian missiles mention. [?] How about The war mostly took place in Sinai and the Golan, with some fighting in northern Israel and African Egypt and several missile attacks on Israeli targets. This to replace the current Other than a flurry of Syrian missile attacks on Ramat David airbase and surrounding civilian settlements during the first days of the war,[56] the fighting took place in Sinai and the Golan Heights, territories that had been occupied by Israel since the end of the Six-Day War of 1967, and in the later stages, on the west side of the Suez canal in Egypt and in areas of the Golan beyond those held by Israel prior to the outbreak of war. I feel that it is shorter, easier for a reader to grasp and has the least consequential event (the missile attacks) at the end rather than the start. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:24, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

I am fine with your suggestion. Attack Ramon (talk) 15:13, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

I like how that part of the lead now reads. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:14, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Excellent consensus forming. So we are in agreement that the detail is valid, but belongs in the main text ... right? Erictheenquirer (talk) 09:11, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Obviously I reserve the right to object to any particular form of words, but from me, basically yes. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:19, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Good. Thanks. I will implement accordingly. Erictheenquirer (talk) 12:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 20 June 2018

Yom Kippur War → 1973 Arab-Israeli War – More neutral name for the war. Israelis call it the Yom Kippur War and Arabs call it the Ramadan War. 1973 Arab-Israeli War is a neutral, encyclopedic title. Seraphim System ^(talk) 14:12, 20 June 2018 (UTC)